Train myself or find a trainer

czeger
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Train myself or find a trainer

Post by czeger » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:47 pm

First off this is my first bird dog a 7 month old gsp I've started working with her I'm the yard with commands such as stay come heel sit now I want to start training a little harder with winter coming to an end soon I want a dog that just hunts I have no desire to get into the field trials or anything like that at this point maybe down the road all my hunting will be mainly released birds here in ohio are hard to come by so my question is can I do this on my own or just send her to a trainer was looking at the perfect start DVD thanks for any input

Chris

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Donnytpburge
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by Donnytpburge » Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:14 pm

Do it yourself if you have the time and the patience.

You will learn as you go and you will appreciate
Your dog 100 times more.

Db

cjhills
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by cjhills » Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:41 pm

Do it yourself if you have a little time and some basic animal knowledge. the Perfection system requires a lot of birds and a helper. one thing that helps is a talented dog. Biggest thing is introduction to the gun and birds. then whoa training the rest should be just bird experience.........Cj

BellaSpinone
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by BellaSpinone » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:04 pm

Where are you in Ohio

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deseeker
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by deseeker » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:19 pm

You might want to consider joining a NAVHDA chapter. They have training days, which means you will have help from people that are more experienced. They also have a source of birds for training. If you are going to do it yourself, look around and get a source for pigeons and quail for training---you will have a hard time making a bird dog without birds for training :D

czeger
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by czeger » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:22 pm

I'm about 40 minutes north of columbus I have access to a ton of pigeons through the Amish and the dairy farm I work at part time is thier any other training program any one wants to reccomend

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by RayGubernat » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:44 pm

The only reason why a person should not train their own dog is lack of facilities. If a person does not have the time...they should not own a dog in the first place. if a person does not have the patience to train a dog, they are almost certainly not going to be a good owner. If you have a back yard, you can do all the obedience work necessary to develop a good, solid hunting dog. If you have access to a 20-30 acre field, you can do all the handling drills necessary to have a dog that knows how to go with you and stay with you. The only thing you may need help with is actually getting the dog to stand and point until you flush, but if you do the introductory yardwork, that might not be such a big deal either.

So YES...by all means try to do it yourself. It can be VERY rewarding.

I second the suggestion to get involved with a local training group. It sometimes really helps when you SEE something done in person, as opposed to reading about it or watching a video.

I would also recommend that you contact a pro trainer in your area and ask if you can pay for their time. You will be amazed at how much you can learn just by following a good pro around and watching how they do things.

Training with MO is as good a book and program as you could ask for. Good, well written book and logical stepwise instruction. There are a few folks on here who could help you out with it if an when you have a question.

Speaking of questions...ask away. The only dumb question...is the one you do not ask. Trust me on that one.

Good luck and have fun.

RayG

halt3rtop
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by halt3rtop » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:45 pm

i trained my GSP right from the get go. lots of playing in the woods so he could learn what a wild game bird smelled like. i did a lot of training with a good friend who was a seasoned dog hunter, and also with people from the navhda chapter that was closest to me. if you don't have the help from fellow local hunters/friends, i'd say invest the coin into your dog, i mean, you spent a good chunk of change (i only assume) to get the dog like most purebred owners, invest further into the animal. if you don't have the funds, and youre lucky enough to have good people to work with that are willing to help, do it on the cheap...i lucked out on my dog and had a great crew surrounding me to help me. i'm now on my own so to speak in a town that if you blink, you miss it when passing through...a friend gave me "the little green book", most methods are somewhat crude, as this book was published way back in the day, but it's extremely helpful. it's got/by bodo winterheldt? i hope i spelled that right...

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by RoostersMom » Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:30 pm

Perfect Start/Perfect Finish are good. You can always save up and attend a 4-day workshop, kind of the best of both worlds (you train the dog with the trainer right there to give hands on correction and help). I've found the seminars/workshops I've attended (Jonesy from Berea and Perfection Kennels) have taught me a lot about how to train the dog myself.

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by Peter » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:22 pm

Chris,

I chose to go with a professional trainer with my first pup and my goals are very simmilar to yours. When I was in college I messed up my lab with her training or lack of (should have bought better genetics looking back). So I was a little worried to do the same even though i think I got some of the best out there (I am biased). My first trainer fell through and she ended up going to Ethan Pippett at Standing Stone Kennels in Kansas( Which I HIGHLY recommend!!!). I didn't feel I had the backgroud to get her where I wanted her to be for her potenial . What I did was let her spend some time there until hunting season, I have done some work with her and he has helped me with this, and plan on her going back this spring to get mostly finished. Possibly I could have done the work my self, but I am not a very patient person and I think I am getting a better end product. Not everyone is good at training, just as not everyone is doing your job or my job. I think ultimatly the goal is finshed product you are happy with, no matter the route.
This is a picture of me trying to train....

Thanks

Peter
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aeast8
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by aeast8 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:13 am

Your story or situation is the same as mine about 3 years ago. I always wanted to hunt upland and have my own dog. So at 32 I finally did it knowing nothing about hunting and especially training, I mean nothing. Now I hunt on my own and take trips to places like western KS and Nebraska sandhills. Knowing nothing about training a dog I had no idea where to start. A friend of mine had the Perfect Start video and I bought the Perfect finish. I followed those videos as close as I could and I ended up with a pretty darn good bird dog, a bird dog good enough that experienced hunters are more than happy to have him afield. I get a lot of compliments on him. Of course a lot of his good hunting comes from his genes and since he is a dog he wants to please me and do things right. But the other reason he is a good hunter, I believe, is because of the Perfection Kennels videos. I'm not saying the perfection videos are the only ones you should choose, there are a lot of good trainers and videos out there, but they will definitely be a great aide for you and your dog. If you have the time and resources I would definitely train your dog yourself for the following reasons: You will learn so much about hunting and training, you will also learn more about your dog and how he hunts by training yourself, you will know his capabilities and down falls and know what to except when hunting together, save money, bond with your dog, and the pride of doing it yourself. I just can't explain enough how much better you are off training him yourself, you will know everything about your dog.
Since I was in the same situation as you are here are my tips and the things that I learned along the way.
PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE
BE PATIENT AND DON'T GET MAD OR FRUSTRATED AT YOUR DOG, KEEP YOUR ANGER TO YOURSELF.
Get a pigeon coop and pigeons that have not been flown. You want homing pigeons that will come back everyday. This is a learning experience in itself.
Follow the perfection videos as close as you can. I watched them over and over and then wrote the steps down in a notebook.
Don't rush through the steps, take your time with each step and make sure the dog understands each step before you move on to the next step.
Forget about using game birds for training, pin raised quail are a waste of time and money unless you know for sure 100% that they fly well.
Keep it fun for the dog. 20 minutes a day is plenty of time for your dog to learn and end the training session on a good note.
Once your dog is ready to hunt, early season game farms are a great place to get your dog on a lot of birds. Stick with the pheasant at the game farms they fly a lot better. Get your buddys to go to the game farm with you, it will help split the cost and you get your dog on more birds
You will not be a perfect trainer and your dog will not be perfect either. But if you stick to the videos and your game plan you will have a darn good dog.
A remote bird launcher and a bird bag will be a bonus. And obviously a good shock collar. But be sure you follow the videos recommendation on how to use the collar properly. Don't go to high on the shocks he doesn't need it and they get timid.
If your dog cowers down when you put pressure on him, pick him up and keep moving.
A buddy to help you train is a big bonus, heck sometimes I used my wife.
Train everyday. When my GSP was just a pup and we were still working on the initial commands (here, heel, whoa) I would bring him the fire station and work with him there plus he liked all the attention from the guys.
I live in the city and I was still able to get this done.

In the end I am glad I trained him myself. We have a good bond together and I learned so much from training him and he taught me a lot. Over the last 3 years it was even more fun to watch him learn everyday. After the first year of training I was able to sit back and let him learn on his own (for example, he learned how to relocate and track running pheasants. He did that all by himself) I taught him the initial hunting requirements and after the first year he learned everything else on his own.

Hope this helps and good luck. Sorry I rambled on but this brought back some good memories and I am excited about more memories to come.
You will have a blast.

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deseeker
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by deseeker » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:37 am

aeast8 wrote:Your story or situation is the same as mine about 3 years ago. I always wanted to hunt upland and have my own dog. So at 32 I finally did it knowing nothing about hunting and especially training, I mean nothing. Now I hunt on my own and take trips to places like western KS and Nebraska sandhills. Knowing nothing about training a dog I had no idea where to start. A friend of mine had the Perfect Start video and I bought the Perfect finish. I followed those videos as close as I could and I ended up with a pretty darn good bird dog, a bird dog good enough that experienced hunters are more than happy to have him afield. I get a lot of compliments on him. Of course a lot of his good hunting comes from his genes and since he is a dog he wants to please me and do things right. But the other reason he is a good hunter, I believe, is because of the Perfection Kennels videos. I'm not saying the perfection videos are the only ones you should choose, there are a lot of good trainers and videos out there, but they will definitely be a great aide for you and your dog. If you have the time and resources I would definitely train your dog yourself for the following reasons: You will learn so much about hunting and training, you will also learn more about your dog and how he hunts by training yourself, you will know his capabilities and down falls and know what to except when hunting together, save money, bond with your dog, and the pride of doing it yourself. I just can't explain enough how much better you are off training him yourself, you will know everything about your dog.
Since I was in the same situation as you are here are my tips and the things that I learned along the way.
PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE
BE PATIENT AND DON'T GET MAD OR FRUSTRATED AT YOUR DOG, KEEP YOUR ANGER TO YOURSELF.
Get a pigeon coop and pigeons that have not been flown. You want homing pigeons that will come back everyday. This is a learning experience in itself.
Follow the perfection videos as close as you can. I watched them over and over and then wrote the steps down in a notebook.
Don't rush through the steps, take your time with each step and make sure the dog understands each step before you move on to the next step.
Forget about using game birds for training, pin raised quail are a waste of time and money unless you know for sure 100% that they fly well.
Keep it fun for the dog. 20 minutes a day is plenty of time for your dog to learn and end the training session on a good note.
Once your dog is ready to hunt, early season game farms are a great place to get your dog on a lot of birds. Stick with the pheasant at the game farms they fly a lot better. Get your buddys to go to the game farm with you, it will help split the cost and you get your dog on more birds
You will not be a perfect trainer and your dog will not be perfect either. But if you stick to the videos and your game plan you will have a darn good dog.
A remote bird launcher and a bird bag will be a bonus. And obviously a good shock collar. But be sure you follow the videos recommendation on how to use the collar properly. Don't go to high on the shocks he doesn't need it and they get timid.
If your dog cowers down when you put pressure on him, pick him up and keep moving.
A buddy to help you train is a big bonus, heck sometimes I used my wife.
Train everyday. When my GSP was just a pup and we were still working on the initial commands (here, heel, whoa) I would bring him the fire station and work with him there plus he liked all the attention from the guys.
I live in the city and I was still able to get this done.

In the end I am glad I trained him myself. We have a good bond together and I learned so much from training him and he taught me a lot. Over the last 3 years it was even more fun to watch him learn everyday. After the first year of training I was able to sit back and let him learn on his own (for example, he learned how to relocate and track running pheasants. He did that all by himself) I taught him the initial hunting requirements and after the first year he learned everything else on his own.

Hope this helps and good luck. Sorry I rambled on but this brought back some good memories and I am excited about more memories to come.
You will have a blast.
good post :D

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kninebirddog
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by kninebirddog » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:29 am

get with a group is a great way...You can read all the books in the world but they won't help you learn how to read a dog :wink:

E collars are a great tool Teach the dog points of contacts and teaching cues can help keep when needed the levels of stimulation low..I only Shock dogs for advanced reminders or aversion training :wink:

Good Luck and careful on to much obedience in relation to the temperament and drive of a dog...If the dog is unsure about getting out there to hunt and you hack obedience at them at the wrong time it can create hurdles to over come. Bird dogs can have manners but they still need that independence to get out there and hunt for you also

Good Luck

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by roaniecowpony » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:19 am

The decision to go with a pro trainer vs do-it-yourself can really only be answered by you. Do you want a well trained dog or do you want the experience of learning how to train a dog regardless of how the dog turns out? Do you have the financial resources to pay potentially thousands of dollars for pro training? Do you have the time to train? etc., etc.? If you aren't satisfied with the results of your own training, what would you do? Get another dog? Would you/could you send the first one down the road? Do you really want to train a dog or is saving $ the overwhelming reason?

It's a lot to think about.

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by BellaSpinone » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:02 pm

Chris,

Send me a PM. I am an amateur trainer, but have started several puppies. There is a NAVHDA chapter at Deleware. Mid Ohio NAVHDA. With access to pigeons you will have many friends! I am located near Buckeye Lake. I will be happy to help you.

I also know the pro trainers in Ohio.

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:23 pm

If you decide on a pro trainer check out Chris Goegan @ www.hipointkennels.com & tell him Ted Meyer sent you. :)

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by ultracarry » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:56 pm

I would go the pro route, but make sure it is a real pro... A lot of people scam others into thinking they are hunting dog trainers and will basically steal from you.

Check out some of the guys that have placed on a national level in GSPCA and NGSPA in the last year or two. Then determine who works the dogs the most... There is a top level of trainers that can easily train your hunting dog in a minimal amount of time. There is a very big difference between trainers and the level of work ethic that someone new to the game doesn't see.

If I'm paying someone to work my dog I'm expecting daily attention, bird work 3-4 days, off days to be roaded and treats the dog how I would. I don't fall for the working a dog every other day thing, letting them sit to think garbage, and evaluation periods lasting a freaking month... Sorry I expect someone who I am paying to work for the money just like I did.

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by S&J gsp » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:48 pm

Ray I would have to disagree on that I don't have time to break a dog but I have the time to keep him broke. The nearest Bird field from me is 40 minutes I work 12 hours a day 5 days a week. I can work around the house but no Bird work so I chose to go with a pro to break him and I will work him 3 or 4 days a week in spring and summer and hunt and trial on the weekends in fall and winter

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by roaniecowpony » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:57 pm

S&J,
I'm in a similar situation as you. My nearest training fields are about 1 1/2 hrs away when you consider the check-in time and all and it's a pay to play 580 acre facility where I can launch and shoot pigeons, etc.. With bird costs it usually is a $50 day there and $30-40 in gas (10 days would be $800-900, 20 field training days $1600-1800, etc.). Consequently, I have only weekends to do any field work. So, when I considered my age and having roughly only a decade of hunting left in my life, the cost to field train, my lack of experience (even with having read books, watched DVDs, and attended multiple classes), the fact that I would not likely convince the wife to get rid of a dog that I didn't do a good enough job on to hunt with, nor be able to accomodate additional dogs if that happened, and that I had the financial capability to buy a dog with training, it all made more sense to go with a pro trainer and learn to maintain the dog. Frankly, even buying a trained dog from a well known trainer was probably a wash or maybe even cheaper for me than buying a pup, maintaining and raising a pup for 2 yrs while I trained it (food, vet bills, training grounds access, birds, etc).

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S&J gsp
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by S&J gsp » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:19 pm

If you add all the time and equipment needed and birds used it comes out cheaper to buy pup and have someone train it you come out ahead. Equipment cost is roughly 1500 and birds another 500

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tailcrackin
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by tailcrackin » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:20 pm

Chris, you look into several of the methods, find out what makes sense to you the best. Reason why, if it doesn't make sense to you, its not gonna make sense to your dog. You will have a hard time, teaching something that doesn't make any sense to you. I would be interested in getting some pigeons possibly. I sent you my number, you can text or call. Thanks Jonesy

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by Fithunter » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:30 pm

My pup is only 11 months but doing awesome as a young dog. I used perfect start DVD and that it was awesome. I had Terry Gough High Brass kennels, Newark OH help me with whoa on birds. Terry is close to you and does an awesome job. He spent a few hours with me showing me what he did training wise and gave me some tips and scenarios to work with my dog on. I really enjoyed that and learned a ton. My friend used him as well to finish his dog as well. I didn't want to go to a trainer but walked away with my dog performing better and I improved as amateur trainer as well.

His rates are very reasonable as well. It cost me about the same as it would've to board my dog whe we were on vacation.

Give him a call.

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S&J gsp
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by S&J gsp » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:37 pm

I'm using Jonesy in Ky he close to you I'm very pleased with his work he keeps you updated on the progress and helps you understand what he's doing and how he's doing it. I would recommend him to anyone

aeast8
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by aeast8 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:28 pm

It didn't cost me anywhere near $2000 to train my dog. Probably not even half that.

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by RayGubernat » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:48 pm

S&J gsp wrote:Ray I would have to disagree on that I don't have time to break a dog but I have the time to keep him broke. The nearest Bird field from me is 40 minutes I work 12 hours a day 5 days a week. I can work around the house but no Bird work so I chose to go with a pro to break him and I will work him 3 or 4 days a week in spring and summer and hunt and trial on the weekends in fall and winter

S & J -

I can completely understand the desirability of having a trainer break a dog steady to wing and shot. For many folks it is a real smart way to go.


But it is a whole different kettle of fish to get a dog staunch for hunting versus steady to wing and shot for trials. It should be nowhere near as difficult to get a dog staunch. If you only have time to do birdwork on the weekends, I believe it is entirely possible for someone to be able to train a very serviceable hunting dog.

RayG

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by ultracarry » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:06 pm

aeast8 wrote:It didn't cost me anywhere near $2000 to train my dog. Probably not even half that.
Didn't mention how well your dog is trained either

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by Donnytpburge » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:50 pm

ultracarry wrote:
aeast8 wrote:It didn't cost me anywhere near $2000 to train my dog. Probably not even half that.
Didn't mention how well your dog is trained either
15 bucks for a good 12' horse lead
25 bucks for a barrell
50 bucks for a manuel launcher
5 bucks for a whistle
4 bucks for a box of shells
300 bucks for birds
200 bucks for e-collar

Ultra


Pm me to book a hunt if you want to see how
Well my dogs are trained.

Db

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by ultracarry » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:17 pm

You mentioned nothing about how well they are trained but that also explains a lot .

But you are on a completely different level then any pro I know if you can have a fully trained dog with 25 shots.... Now that's good. I'll skip guided hunts with decent dogs and hunt by myself or with close friends. I have seen mediocre dogs at hunt clubs and nothing about that interests me. It's also a haven for some "pro trainers" to pick up new clients because no one else will recommend them.

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by aeast8 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:36 pm

I did mention my dog training and how he ended up in a earlier reply. That kinda sounded like a cheap shot, but its hard to tell in writing. He is pretty darn good but not perfect. Many experienced hunters are elated to get to hunt behind him. Did well in a field trial also, had the fastest time by far. Didn't get full points for 1 incomplete retrieve. I had to take 2 steps to the retrieved bird. But for training him myself I will take that any day of the week. I'm not a field trial guy just wanted to experience it once. I just like to hunt and we do pretty good together.

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by ultracarry » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:44 pm

Field trials are different then fun trials, nastra, bird dog challenge etc.

It's crazy but yes, most people get excited to hunt behind a pointing dog and are in awe when it points, they or the dog flush the bird, they shoot the bird and the dog brings it back. There is a difference between a trained dog and a finished product. If you just want to shoot birds it's pretty easy to train the dog, if you want a real nice dog there is more skill then a box of shells, a barrel and 75 birds lol. Check out the difference you can get for a little investment. It's night and day.

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Donnytpburge
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by Donnytpburge » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:53 pm

ultracarry wrote:Field trials are different then fun trials, nastra, bird dog challenge etc.

It's crazy but yes, most people get excited to hunt behind a pointing dog and are in awe when it points, they or the dog flush the bird, they shoot the bird and the dog brings it back. There is a difference between a trained dog and a finished product. If you just want to shoot birds it's pretty easy to train the dog, if you want a real nice dog there is more skill then a box of shells, a barrel and 75 birds lol. Check out the difference you can get for a little investment. It's night and day.
Ultra
I'm not a pro trainer.

If the plantation thing does not interest to then
You are more than welcome to come hunt wild birds with
Me and my dogs. We have 134000 acres of national
Forrest here and I have several coveys located.

Then you can say what you want about my dogs
And my training program.

Bottom line is Person can train a bird dog for less than 2000.00; however
I believe that 2000.00 is a fair price for a "pro trainers" time and experience.

Db

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by ultracarry » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:06 pm

2000 is cheap for a pro.

So what you are saying is you don't have mediocre dogs? Just want to clarify... Have they been shot over more then 25 times and encountered more then $300 worth of birds. I'm confused?

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by Fun dog » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:27 am

Training grounds are 200 miles away. Gas over $4. A gallon. Training every weekend during the summer. Birds at $15. To $25. Per bird. Launcher at $300. Backing dog. E-collar. Pigeons and a loft to house them. Clinic and tests. Did I mention having to buy a new car, okay we won't count that. Training bird dogs is every bit as expensive as owning an entire team of sleddogs and there's no purse to help offset costs. I'm quite sure I could have had her trained for less than I have in her now, but maybe not the satisfaction of training her myself. At 15 months she was good enough to pass senior hunt test, but not masters. She does everything right, but lacks the polish.

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roaniecowpony
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by roaniecowpony » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:13 am

Like I said, only you can answer whether or not to go with a pro trainer. I went a step further and bought a trained dog outright. I estimate it was about the same or likely cheaper than raising a pup and having a pro trainer do the training for the level of training my dog had.

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by Donnytpburge » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:38 am

Ultra

Pm sent

czeger
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by czeger » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:05 am

Thanks everyone for your input I think I'm gonna buy the perfect start DVD and try it myself but if I feel like I'm in Javier my head I'm gonna get a pro thanks again to everyone this is why I joined this site

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S&J gsp
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by S&J gsp » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:52 am

Thanks I realized why I quit posting on here

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by RayGubernat » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:47 am

czeger wrote:Thanks everyone for your input I think I'm gonna buy the perfect start DVD and try it myself but if I feel like I'm in Javier my head I'm gonna get a pro thanks again to everyone this is why I joined this site
Sounds like good plan.

I would also suggest that if there is a good trainer close to you, that you make contact now and discuss your plan. Don't wait until you have a problem. Start a line of communication now and develop a relationship with someone who can help you AVOID problems in the first place.

Just about every pro trainer I know, got into the dog training thing and stayed in because they loved the dogs and got a great deal of satisfaction from working with them. They did not get into it because of the long hours, physically demanding work and the mediocre pay. They darn sure did not get into it because of all the wonderful dog owners.

Most of the folks I know that do this for a living...really, really love working with dogs and would want to work with an owner who wants to see their dog do well. A day or two with a good trainer can really help you to understand both the how and the why of some of the things you will need to do.

I was very fortunate when I started getting into field trials. I thought I knew a thing or two about training a bird dog until I started working with a experienced amateur. I soon realized that I knew very little that was of use. I also became associated with an area pro, who went out of his way to show me things and to point out what I was doing that "could be improved", and often how to make those improvements.

I wish you and your dog the best of luck. Enjoy it an have fun. If you are having fun, it is a good bet that your dog is also.

RayG

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by markj » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:06 am

I think I'm gonna buy the perfect start DVD and try it myself
Thats a great plan. It will be fun, I used to find areas that held birds was close to me like a public lake or large park. Sometimes these areas will hold birds and just a walk in the park with the dog can be very fun. Mine used to find lots of birds to point in the city.

Ultra, whats your issue? You are rude to the OP with your posting. Not everyone wishes to have a FC. And yes I will put my dogs up on yours so come here to iowa and we will show you hunting. But it is cold so dress for it.

Be carefull on a pro, some wish to only have the number one winner and may break your dog in the training. Make sure the trainer is on your page. Maybe a MH type trainer would be better for a good broke gun dog.

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by ultracarry » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:18 am

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to compare them, that's why you say go to where every you are.... If you really wanted to just come on down to California where the weather is good.

Btw if being direct is rude then why ask a question for a response? I'm pretty sure he didn't get his feelings hurt like someone else did on this thread. I simply just pointed out there were differences in how dogs need to be trained to compete in different venues. If that offends you then I'm really not sorry.

Good luck with the training OP. It will be an expierence.

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by Ricky Ticky Shorthairs » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:43 am

:?

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whatsnext
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by whatsnext » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:22 pm

Ultra do your dogs only hunt in good weather :twisted:

I would say if the op does his homework and sticks to a program and has the resources he will be ok but i highly doubt the results will be pro quality. I trained my first couple bird dogs and they were good and solid but they did have some faults that a pro would have trained through. To the op have fun, be patient, do not expect perfection and i am sure you will have a very enjoyable pup and a better understanding of this game.

Ultra i was just kiddin around hopefully i can get my pups to a competitive level some day, I think it would be nice to hunt behind my own brag dog once before this is all over.

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Donnytpburge
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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by Donnytpburge » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:32 pm

czeger wrote:Thanks everyone for your input I think I'm gonna buy the perfect start DVD and try it myself but if I feel like I'm in Javier my head I'm gonna get a pro thanks again to everyone this is why I joined this site
Czeger

That sounds great.

Best of luck to you and your dog.

db

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by ultracarry » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:35 pm

Lol the owner will only hunt in good weather.

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by Sharon » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:45 pm

czeger wrote:First off this is my first bird dog a 7 month old gsp I've started working with her I'm the yard with commands such as stay come heel sit now I want to start training a little harder with winter coming to an end soon I want a dog that just hunts I have no desire to get into the field trials or anything like that at this point maybe down the road all my hunting will be mainly released birds here in ohio are hard to come by so my question is can I do this on my own or just send her to a trainer was looking at the perfect start DVD thanks for any input . Chris

Try it yourself, but if you hit a wall get pro help , don't give up. If you're young , you'll have lots of bird dogs and get better with training every time.

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by aeast8 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:46 pm

Good luck czeger, hope I and we have helped. Either way a bad bird dog and bad day hunting is better than any other day. You'll do great and have fun. If you encounter any problems feel free to ask any questions along the way, I and we will be glad to help. Good luck buddy. Sorry your dog can't be as good as ultra carry. Its guys like him that ruin hunting and this forum for everybody else. Ultra carry is playing a game of who d@#$ is bigger and who's dad can beat up who's. Childish. Nobody needs that crap ultra. Cyber tough guy, everybody is tough sitting behind a computer. Don't bother replying ultra not going to waste any time talking to ya. I'm sure your dog is better, that is what you want to hear, your the best and your dogs. It doesn't matter though. The rest of us enjoy what we got and hunting with our best buddy. To bad guys like you don't understand that. It's not about who has the best dog.

Czeger hope all works out for ya buddy. Good luck and happy hunting. Hope to see ya afield and have a bird in the bag.

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by aeast8 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:00 pm

By the way your dogs tail is to long, not looking to good pal.

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by birddogger » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:15 pm

FWIW, if I didn't train my own dogs, I probably wouldn't own dogs since training is part of the pleasure I get out of the sport and the feeling of accomplishment is very rewarding to me. It also gives me a way to enjoy my dogs the year around instead of just during certain seasons. Are my dogs as poished as a trial dog trained by a pro? I am pretty sure they are probably not but all they really need to do is please me and perform to the standards I want/expect. That being said, that is just me, and not everybody will enjoy the training part of it as I do or have the time or patience. However, if it is an issue of time or patience, a person will probably not be able to keep a dog broke anyway. Bottom line is, there is no right or wrong answer. It just depends on what you want or expect out of the sport and what your goals are. BTW, I agree that you can do it yourself much cheaper than sending to a competent pro.

Charlie

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by ultracarry » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:07 pm

aeast8 wrote:By the way your dogs tail is to long, not looking to good pal.
Fyi the tail is cropped at 60% (research Gsp standard )( and she was under a year) and to be specific that dog will out hunt yours 9.99 out if ten days. Don't worry about the fact she also competes in trials. And even though I got her from a pet store her breeding probably was better put together then your parents.

::Cheers:: do some work before you try to give some input. And please don't vote in the future.

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Re: Train myself or find a trainer

Post by Coveyrise64 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:54 pm

ultracarry wrote:......Fyi the tail is cropped at 60% (research Gsp standard )

::Cheers:: do some work before you try to give some input. And please don't vote in the future.
GSPCA/Breed Standard..... :?
The tail is set high and firm, and must be docked, leaving approximately 40% of its length.
cr

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