Pheasants Forever

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BVK
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Pheasants Forever

Post by BVK » Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:40 am

Wondering how many of you are members of Pheasants Forever?

Wondering more if any of you are members of PF and feel that their taking on Pioneer DuPont and Monsanto as corporate sponsors does not pass the "smell test"?

As I see it, these two corporate ag chemical companies garner their profits through the destruction of prairie and upland habitat, encourage tiling and tilling of land that should never see a plow, lobby for farm policy that encourages destructive action to habitat and fragile wetlands (in the millions if not billions of dollars), and then turn around and offer dollars from these profits in the form of sponsorship to PF. Worse than that, PF accepts it!!!! At the same time, PF is asking shoe leather boots on the ground upland and waterfowl hunters like you and I to donate to the conservation of these very same acres. If this is not the most gross conflict of interest known to man, please correct me. Maybe I am the only one feeling like a fool here? With friend like this, who needs enemies....with policy such as this, PF has the fox guarding the hen house for sure! I would like to know how others feel.......

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Donnytpburge
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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by Donnytpburge » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:50 am

I am a pf member and a qf member.

Db

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by cjhills » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:13 am

This is exactly what I have battled for several years. PF has dramatically changed directions and has left the little guy behind. PF likes the big headlines which look like they are accomplishing something.
In spite of a few big numbers the local chapters are the biggest contributors.
The biggest accomplishment of PH Is to make jobs for a few top executive types and keep a few game biologists who answer to no one off of the unemployment rolls. How well did reload Iowa work?
I have been a member and supporter for several years. But when they allowed a breeder from Iowa, who sells himself as one of the top GSPCA members in the USA, to raffle a dog at the DesMoines Pheasant Fest, which is against the rules of almost all breed clubs . It was the end for me and quite a few others.
Now they have sold out to the chemical companies and corporate America.
A drastic change of direction is needed starting right at the top and a movement back to the grass roots organization it was at the start.
We tried to get some input from the local biologist on how to deal with our old crp ground in SD and couldn't even get him to talk to us or return our calls and e-mails.
Mostly PF capitalizes on peoples emotions and next week will be talking about how many new members signed up at PF Milwaukee. 99% of the new members will be gone next year.
I wish it was better......................................Cj

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by SpinoneIllinois » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:47 am

That relationship does raise a red flag, but it's maybe not inherently evil. I mean, it's not unheard of for Republican politicians to take campaign money from unions, or for Democrats to take money from corporations. Politics make strange bedfellows.
The companies might be offering this support as just a way to project an image, or to genuinely be a good corporate citizen. If they can sell their products and, through this partnership, help wildlife at the same time, it's a win-win, is it not? I'd like to think PF is aware of the potential appearance of something like this, and will be sure to stay true to its mission.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by deseeker » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:08 pm

I'm a PF member :D

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:33 pm

BVK wrote:Wondering how many of you are members of Pheasants Forever?

Wondering more if any of you are members of PF and feel that their taking on Pioneer DuPont and Monsanto as corporate sponsors does not pass the "smell test"?

As I see it, these two corporate ag chemical companies garner their profits through the destruction of prairie and upland habitat, encourage tiling and tilling of land that should never see a plow, lobby for farm policy that encourages destructive action to habitat and fragile wetlands (in the millions if not billions of dollars), and then turn around and offer dollars from these profits in the form of sponsorship to PF. Worse than that, PF accepts it!!!! At the same time, PF is asking shoe leather boots on the ground upland and waterfowl hunters like you and I to donate to the conservation of these very same acres. If this is not the most gross conflict of interest known to man, please correct me. Maybe I am the only one feeling like a fool here? With friend like this, who needs enemies....with policy such as this, PF has the fox guarding the hen house for sure! I would like to know how others feel.......
I feel like you are way off base. Those companies are not promoting more crop land but are interested in selling their products to the farmers. And they do sell products that help the farmer maintain more ground suitable to ground cover suitable for pheasants and quail just as well as for other purposes also. I really think many people spend their time trying to dream up things instead of actually getting involved and seeing what is going on. There are several things I have always had a problem with as far as PF go but I tend to relate to actual happenings and not the big conspiracies. I am amazed that a good program would be faulted for getting operation funding from any source that is related to the care of the agriculture that our hunting future is so dependent on.

Another excuse to be offended is that they would allow a member to auction off a pup for the benefit of PF. Our local PF has done that for many many years along with available training and places to hunt. It has been a good money maker for them and hopefully will continue as long as it is.

Maybe we need to just list all of the things we disagree with and see how that helps an organization. Or maybe we could list things that actually might help one of the very few that have been successful over the past 20 or 30 years even get better and do more. I guess we all can take our pick as to what list you would rather be on.

Ezzy

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by BVK » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:44 pm

Even though they are not the ones tilling and tiling, they are in fact promoting more cropland in production and the lobby dollars they spend supporting farm policies that support this prove it! More cropland in production, more seed and chemicals sold, more profit for them and less habitat for wildlife. Pretty simple.....I am not being a "glass half empty" guy here, but rather trying to look at the facts. The mess our country is in today is due to the same scenario starting to play out with PF. We can put our heads in the sand and smile, or we can try to hold people accountable. PF has been a successful organization for many years without the financial assistance from the likes of these players!

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:11 pm

BVK wrote:Even though they are not the ones tilling and tiling, they are in fact promoting more cropland in production and the lobby dollars they spend supporting farm policies that support this prove it! More cropland in production, more seed and chemicals sold, more profit for them and less habitat for wildlife. Pretty simple.....I am not being a "glass half empty" guy here, but rather trying to look at the facts. The mess our country is in today is due to the same scenario starting to play out with PF. We can put our heads in the sand and smile, or we can try to hold people accountable. PF has been a successful organization for many years without the financial assistance from the likes of these players!
Well for one I sure hope they stay. You sound like the guys complaining because Purina promotes field trials. We can always find something to complain about. much harder to find a way to help.

Ezzy

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by BVK » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:08 pm

I see no parallel in your example of a dog food manufacturer sponsoring sporting dog events? I see no conflict there?

Pheasants Forever to Pioneer and Monsanto is like Sporting Dog events and organizations to PETA or HSUS. Both are obvious conflicts of interest. This is all I am trying shed light on. Nothing more, nothing less.

If the bird dog organization that you belong to and support financially took on one of the organizations above as sponsors you obviously would accept their financial support with open arms right?

The first steps in finding solutions to problems is to first define the issue, create awareness, and take steps to solve it.....

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Pheasants Forever

Post by Luminary Setters » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:21 pm

Questioning conservation organizations over where and who funds are coming from doesn't make you a conspiracy freak or someone trying to dream up things.

I bet there are a fair number on this board that wish they paid a little more attention to what quail forever was doing with their money.

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Pheasants Forever

Post by Luminary Setters » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:28 pm

Correction , I meant Quail Unlimited.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by cjhills » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:37 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
BVK wrote:Even though they are not the ones tilling and tiling, they are in fact promoting more cropland in production and the lobby dollars they spend supporting farm policies that support this prove it! More cropland in production, more seed and chemicals sold, more profit for them and less habitat for wildlife. Pretty simple.....I am not being a "glass half empty" guy here, but rather trying to look at the facts. The mess our country is in today is due to the same scenario starting to play out with PF. We can put our heads in the sand and smile, or we can try to hold people accountable. PF has been a successful organization for many years without the financial assistance from the likes of these players!
Well for one I sure hope they stay. You sound like the guys complaining because Purina promotes field trials. We can always find something to complain about. much harder to find a way to help.

Ezzy
I spent a lot of years trying to help. Until I found out what really is going on. PF attitude is where we get the money is irrelevant, it all works. Not what you think try going out and soliciting Donations and you will soon find out what the general public thinks........Cj

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:28 pm

If the bird dog organization that you belong to and support financially took on one of the organizations above as sponsors you obviously would accept their financial support with open arms right? You bet I would because I do not see a company that manufactures products for the farmers use as an enemy of anyone. They make no effort to get farmers to plant more acres. they sell what the farmer needs to raise a crop. End of story. I have bought year old seed from them for practically nothing along with some they just donated for the pf chapters to use for many years now. They have been strong supporters for years and we all need to thank them for their help. And I have never gotten caught up in where the money comes from as long as we can get it to use for all of our benefit.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by ddoyle » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:55 pm

I have left PF because it seems their focus has moved to Washington and Federal dollars. I got involved because I thought it was a great example of what individuals could do when they got together.....then every PF magazine become about lobbying the already broke Federal government.....just my opinion.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by deseeker » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:07 pm

ddoyle wrote:I have left PF because it seems their focus has moved to Washington and Federal dollars. I got involved because I thought it was a great example of what individuals could do when they got together.....then every PF magazine become about lobbying the already broke Federal government.....just my opinion.
Where do you think the money comes from for all the CRP acres that the pheasants nest and live in? If PF don't lobby Washington, there will be no CRP in the farm bill & very few birds to hunt. Then we'll all have to preserve hunt. IMO PF & QF are about the only organizations trying to offer city kids a chance to get started bird hunting thru their youth/mentor hunts. PF also pays a small portion for the walk in areas in Nebraska where you can hunt with out asking. At least they spend the majority of their money trying to make a difference :roll: IMO

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by BVK » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:18 am

Never once have I stated that PF does not provide support for conservation. I am only stating that accepting money from Pioneer and Monsanto is a colossal conflict of interest. Yes, they lobby for CRP while Pioneer and Monsanto lobby $1000 to PF's $1 against it. Here is a news flash.....corporate ag is winning this battle hand over fist.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:37 am

Must be PF slam time. No matter the organization, people are unhappy with it. DU invests too much in Canada. TU is for the wealthy. RGS does nothing, the loggers do it all. RMEF is for the elite and does nothing for the common hunter. Now, PF caters to large corporations. NRA is a bunch of radicals and don't express gun owners views. Strictly a Washington lobby group.

Sheesh. Who is supposed to help us if these groups don't? I don't see anyone else out there chomping at the bit to help hunters and fishermen. No organization is perfect and every organization requires money to run. Perhaps you should look at all the good PF is doing (free assessment of your land, protected and purchased lands, buys on seed) instead on focusing on their corporate partnerships.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:19 am

gonehuntin' wrote:Must be PF slam time. No matter the organization, people are unhappy with it. DU invests too much in Canada. TU is for the wealthy. RGS does nothing, the loggers do it all. RMEF is for the elite and does nothing for the common hunter. Now, PF caters to large corporations. NRA is a bunch of radicals and don't express gun owners views. Strictly a Washington lobby group.

Sheesh. Who is supposed to help us if these groups don't? I don't see anyone else out there chomping at the bit to help hunters and fishermen. No organization is perfect and every organization requires money to run. Perhaps you should look at all the good PF is doing (free assessment of your land, protected and purchased lands, buys on seed) instead on focusing on their corporate partnerships.
And we still have no idea just what Pioneer and Monsanto have to do with this whole situation. Both companies as well as many others that do the exact same thing have been around for 70 years or more and all of a sudden they no longer are just in the seed and chemical business but are now trying to kill off our wildlife. I have dealt with both over the years and have never observed a connection to conservation. ?????????????????????

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by BVK » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:56 am

Pull your head out of the sand pal.

I will explain it to you one more time....They (Pioneer & Monsanto and others like them) spend millions lobbying for a farm bill that limits conservation and increases subsidies (in the form of yours and my tax dollars) and incentives to agriculture that directly promotes the tiling of wetlands and tilling of former CRP and virgin prairie lands. More land in production less land for habitat, less habitat, less wildlife. More land in production (row crops) more seed and chemicals sold, higher profits to these corporate ag conglomerates. Seriously, do you honestly think they give a rats behind about conservation? Their only concern is profit, money, never enough money! Call it naive or ignorance, viewpoints such as yours fuels the dysfunction and corruption of our government as well as other organizations to flourish.

I respect your choice to continue to be played as a pawn in this ever increasing corruption...all at our expense and their profit. I suppose you feel harsh winters and poor spring weather during nesting is the culprit when it comes to record declines in upland game numbers. Look at Iowa...a few short years ago, they rivaled SD and blew away ND in numbers of pheasants harvested yearly. Have you been to Iowa lately? Every former waterway/wetland drained, every fence line grubbed, CRP gone...corn and beans from road to road literally as there are few road ditches left as they are tilling those as well.

Look at the recent Farm Bill passed. What was the only thing targeted for "budget reduction" CRP...shocker. Less CRP, more row crops, more profits for these entities, less habitat for wildlife, compromised water quality etc. This is not rocket science. Their only goal in partnering with groups like PF is to be able to use it as a PR smoke screen in saying they support conservation which is total hogwash as these token contributions are a drop in the bucket to the boatloads of money they throw at congress lobbying for less conservation (CRP) which means more row crops in production.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:26 pm

And so what does that have to do with PF? They take money from the giant donors, buy and preserve more land to protect it. Can you give us some documented things they have done that profited the huge companies and was detrimental to pheasant?

Are the farmers horrible too because they take the land out of CRP and plow it under for profit?

I really have no idea where you're coming from on this. Give us specifics and bot generalities.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:12 pm

BVK wrote:Pull your head out of the sand pal.

I will explain it to you one more time....They (Pioneer & Monsanto and others like them) spend millions lobbying for a farm bill that limits conservation and increases subsidies (in the form of yours and my tax dollars) and incentives to agriculture that directly promotes the tiling of wetlands and tilling of former CRP and virgin prairie lands. More land in production less land for habitat, less habitat, less wildlife. More land in production (row crops) more seed and chemicals sold, higher profits to these corporate ag conglomerates. Seriously, do you honestly think they give a rats behind about conservation? Their only concern is profit, money, never enough money! Call it naive or ignorance, viewpoints such as yours fuels the dysfunction and corruption of our government as well as other organizations to flourish.

I respect your choice to continue to be played as a pawn in this ever increasing corruption...all at our expense and their profit. I suppose you feel harsh winters and poor spring weather during nesting is the culprit when it comes to record declines in upland game numbers. Look at Iowa...a few short years ago, they rivaled SD and blew away ND in numbers of pheasants harvested yearly. Have you been to Iowa lately? Every former waterway/wetland drained, every fence line grubbed, CRP gone...corn and beans from road to road literally as there are few road ditches left as they are tilling those as well.

Look at the recent Farm Bill passed. What was the only thing targeted for "budget reduction" CRP...shocker. Less CRP, more row crops, more profits for these entities, less habitat for wildlife, compromised water quality etc. This is not rocket science. Their only goal in partnering with groups like PF is to be able to use it as a PR smoke screen in saying they support conservation which is total hogwash as these token contributions are a drop in the bucket to the boatloads of money they throw at congress lobbying for less conservation (CRP) which means more row crops in production.
You know I own and farm in Iowa and I am amazed at your diatribe that is almost a conspiracy theory. Where did so many get this idea that every company is strictly in business to take advantage of the customer. With out companies such as Pioneer, DeKalb, Pfizer, Lester Pfizer, Growmark, Monsanto, and a host of other companies who breed seed corn seed beans, seed oats, seed wheat, seed Milo as well as chemicals for the farmer's use as well as the medicines you take for every ailment that you have most of us would be hungry or dead. And the world as we know it wouldn't exist. I thank God that we still have many who can think straight but it is getting worse by the day as our government tries to drive a wedge between every group they can. The constant criticism of the very entities that have made this country great are constantly being tore down. Everyday we hear how bad Walmart, and oil companies are and now chemical companies, seed companies, and every other successful company that makes a profit and grows is the bad guy. It is surely a sad day when people are so envious of their neighbors that they feel the need destroy them. You may find life isn't so good once you succeed in riding the world of anyone that is actually doing something good and making a profit.

As far as CRP goes it has been in trouble because the grain prices have gone up and the farmer can make more money than the government can pay per acre. This started several years ago and will continue as long as there is a need for the grain. once that market comes down then you will see a need for more money if you want to have CRP land again. And the companies you are talking about will still be here and will continue producing the commodities that the farmer needs to be able to raise a crop that will end up in your well being in so many different ways that you just don't seem willing to comprehend.

Ezzy

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by BVK » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:27 pm

I grew up on a small family farm and never, ever indicated that farming nor farmers were bad. Specifics....unfortunately but realistically the Farm Bill drives conservation and farming practices or lack thereof. All I am saying is the fact that these corporate ag companies lobby against and profits from the same conservation programs that PF lobbies for....only they do so at far greater monetary rate. I have friends and neighbors that farm and work for ag based companies. They are good hard working people. I live in a rural ag based area. Farmers are doing what everyone would do...farm the program for maximum profits. The problem lies in the lack of balance in the Farm Bill. I am watching small family farms struggle due to the fact that they do not have enough land to profit from the Farm Bill on a large scale while corporate farms gobble up more land and collect more of the government subsidies provided by the Farm Bill. Yes, we need food....we also need water. The same water that is being contaminated from the overuse of toxic chemicals that allow more row crops to be produced on the less acres. There needs to be some balance between intensive agriculture and common sense conservation. Right now, there is very little balance and it is having devastating effects on our environment. Pheasants Forever is fighting for this balance, but corporate ag is fighting to keep the deck stacked in their favor....direct conflict of interest.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:04 pm

Well then, thank God for PF!l

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:04 pm

Well then, thank God for PF!l

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:08 pm

And thank God the ag companies are willing to help.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by BVK » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:59 pm

Some light reading for both of you... looking for "specifics". Looks like not all family farmers share your views with the likes of Monsanto.....

http://www.ibtimes.com/monsanto-named-2 ... ll-1300217

http://moneymorning.com/2013/06/17/farm ... -steroids/#


Although Monsanto has deep enough pockets to produce creative marketing campaigns and smokescreens, in reality there is very little this greedy corporate money machine does to help conservation, the environment, family farms, health and well being of our populations. Now, why in the world would a conservation group like PF align themselves with a corp. who is so anti what PF is all about?

Let me know if you need more specifics as the forum limits each post to two url's.....

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by RoostersMom » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:15 pm

I guess I'd be interested to know who exactly you think is doing more for conservation out there? NAWCA grants in the millions, 100+ local Farm Bill Wildlife Biologists on the ground to work with landowners on improving their property. Let me know which other conservation organization has that level of involvement in boots on-the-ground changing the landscape? The Sage Grouse Initiative, Lesser Prairie Chicken Initiative, National Bobwhite Conservation Initiative (a seat on the board there)....just to list a few of PF/QF's accomplishments. That is to say nothing of their youth initiatives (No Child Left Indoors) or the Young Guns Program, the new National Pollinator Program. I'm not sure that any other conservation organization is rated as high on Charity Navigator...Are they?

As a conservation community, until we come together instead of dividing up, we are doomed to failure. Instead of pointing out the perceived negatives, how about the positives of the organizations? Which one is doing more for habitat conservation/youth education and Farm Bill work in D.C.?

I haven't even mentioned birddogs, because that's not the "focus" of the organization - but it sure helps our local chapter to have a family fun youth hunt - and the one in Kansas City in two weeks (Bird Dog Challenge) and the one just outside of KC (Birddog Classic for habitat).

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:26 pm

And still, what does that have to do with PF?

We should stop drinking Coke and Pepsi too?

I would think that if PF, could take some of this horrible, evil, money from Monsanto and restore valuable habitat with it, it is greatly to their credit and to Monsantos.

It is not my intent to protect Monsanto, but I want to know what you think is wrong with PF-QF taking money from them? What favor do you think Monsanto will request from PF in return from money from them? Just what is it that PF is doing wrong?

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:27 pm

Do you know there is a difference between anti and not in our interest. And that big greedy company better keep on being big and greedy or there share holders will buy something else that is big and greedy enough to make enough to pay their share holders a decent profit of maybe 4 or 5%, That sounds really greedy doesn't it. Kind of like the government railing about Bid Oil making obscene profits when in reality they are making somewhere near 5% on their investment while the very same government collects 15% of their profit in taxes.

So many people worry so much about what everyone else id doing and making they forget about what they are doing.

Ezzy

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by MJB64 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:59 pm

Upland conservation always boils down to the farm bill. Big Ag is on one side, PF is on the other. Any money that Monsanto gives to PF is a drop in the bucket to Monsanto, but it is an opportunity for them to say "Yeah, look at us!"

Mike

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by Bounty_Hunter » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:10 pm

BVK wrote:Yes, we need food....we also need water. The same water that is being contaminated from the overuse of toxic chemicals that allow more row crops to be produced on the less acres. There needs to be some balance between intensive agriculture and common sense conservation. Right now, there is very little balance and it is having devastating effects on our environment. Pheasants Forever is fighting for this balance, but corporate ag is fighting to keep the deck stacked in their favor....direct conflict of interest.
I for one would like to see more done for small family farms, especially organic farms. I think this generation has been exposed to enough pesticides and chemicals to last 2 lifetimes. I am also tired of seeing peaceful farm land converted into strip malls and town house developments. I wont even go into the water issues. Big ag corporations are no different then big oil and gas, its always about profit first.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by BVK » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:11 pm

Gonehuntin:

Your question re: what is PF doing wrong: They are compromising their values, mission, and goals by accepting money from the likes of these companies. The same companies who are "directly" and "indirectly" responsible for the destruction of the very same habitat that PF attempts to protect. Direct conflict of interest!!!!!!!! The other thing that PF is doing is giving these companies false public relations ammo so they can go on record saying that they care about conservation and the environment when in fact, based on their lobbying efforts, this could not be further from the truth. PF is being a pawn in their little game and compromising their core values in doing so. All for the sake of money. PF has operated for many years with sponsors who naturally align with their mission and shares their values and goals.

To preface, I am not calling these corporate ag companies criminals so you can go off on me for that (some could argue that though...as there is litigation against Monsanto constantly mostly from family farmers).

I would like to help you understand using this arbitrary analogy: Would you support your local law enforcement department (which you support financially with your tax dollars) if they knowingly accepted money from local drug operators and or other criminal interests and justify it as long as they used that money to buys squad cars, and other equipment that helped the department? Gross conflict of interest....This is all I am saying. Not saying PF is bad, not saying farmers are bad, just saying that this is a big time conflict of interest and no longer aligns with my core values. It truly saddens me. That's it.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:33 pm

"As I see it, these two corporate ag chemical companies garner their profits through the destruction of prairie and upland habitat, encourage tiling and tilling of land that should never see a plow, lobby for farm policy that encourages destructive action to habitat and fragile wetlands (in the millions if not billions of dollars)"
And in the Dakotas I see the farmers doing the very same thing. They are plowing fence row to fence row. Burning and draining the pot holes. Plowing CRP under. And after they do it, they're giving PF nothing. I don't fault the farmer. On the other hand, they give PF nothing, Monsanto gives them dollars to preserve other land.

,
"and then turn around and offer dollars from these profits in the form of sponsorship to PF. Worse than that, PF accepts it!!!! "
Perhaps they offer their dollars for conservation of other lands and to boost their image, no doubt. It still benefits us, the hunters and it benefits wildlife.
"At the same time, PF is asking shoe leather boots on the ground upland and waterfowl hunters like you and I to donate to the conservation of these very same acres. "
I don't believe they are the same acres at all. PF is trying to conserve valuable upland bird production land that would be gobbled up by the big corporate farms. If they can do that with Monsanto, Dupont money, good for them. It will be getting put to a good use.
"If this is not the most gross conflict of interest known to man, please correct me. Maybe I am the only one feeling like a fool here? With friend like this, who needs enemies....with policy such as this, PF has the fox guarding the hen house for sure! I would like to know how others feel......."
I personally, don't think you've really thought this out. I'm pretty certain DU, QF, Delta, RMEF and others do exactly the same thing. Because they accept money from huge corporations does not mean they endorse the corporations or use their money to further destruction of nesting habitat.

If you had proof that PF has taken Monsanto money to actually destroy upland land, I'd dump them in a second. I personally don't feel that is what PF is about and I don't believe they have ever done that. I DO think you're upset with the large corporations and making blind assumptions about one of the leading upland organizations out there. I want to know specifics if you're going to accuse them and ask us to stop supporting them. Facts, not rants.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by BVK » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:43 pm

Gone huntin:

I never indicated PF took money from their sponsors and used it to destroy habitat. Not sure where you came up with that. I explained everything in great detail and provided all the facts. You don't get it and that is OK...

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:07 pm

BVK wrote:Gone huntin:

I never indicated PF took money from their sponsors and used it to destroy habitat. Not sure where you came up with that. I explained everything in great detail and provided all the facts. You don't get it and that is OK...
On your opening quote you inferred that PF is asking us to help conserve the same acres Monsanto is farming, or that's how it appears to me. You have actually provided NO facts other than the fact that PF is accepting Monsanto money. As are countless other businesses and organizations.

I honestly think you're trying to make something of nothing here. PF is one of the few organizations I strongly support, and if they need Monsanto money to further habitat, I think that's great. At least corporate money is being put to one good use. Look to Kentucky to see what a magnificent job the coal companies are doing of restoring plundered lands.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by RoostersMom » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:16 pm

What about BP money? For the oil spill I mean. We shouldn't take that money and work on habitat in those areas because the money comes from BP? We're talking billions of dollars in those areas to mitigate the damage and go further and protect additional habitats and create new habitat.

Should we not be taking those monies?

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:44 pm

This a prime example of how someone comes up with a conspiracy theory and uses it to try and destroy a couple of good companies and organizations. I can absolutely tell you Monsanto is not pressing farmers to tile or till. Farmers do that on their own trying to make a living.

Ezzy

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by cjhills » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:09 pm

RoostersMom wrote:What about BP money? For the oil spill I mean. We shouldn't take that money and work on habitat in those areas because the money comes from BP? We're talking billions of dollars in those areas to mitigate the damage and go further and protect additional habitats and create new habitat.

Should we not be taking those monies?
That comparison is ridicules BP is paying for damage they have done to the environment....................Cj

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by Meller » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:23 am

This is pretty simple to decide how many pennies from the dollar donated actually go's toward habitat improvement or securing habitat for the hunter, ect. and how much is spent on the CEO, and salary's and expenses. Problem solved!

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:43 am

This should answer and rebut some that don't think PF is a good, honest, organization. Taken from their web page:

2005 - Pheasants Forever launches a quail division called Quail Forever. Dedicated to the protection and enhancement of quail, pheasant and other upland wildlife through habitat improvement, public awareness, education and advocacy for sound land management policy, Quail Forever (QF) uses the same unique grassroots system as PF, empowering chapters with the responsibility to determine how 100 percent of their locally raised conservation funds are spent.
2008 - Pheasants Forever's projects benefit more than 5 million acres of wildlife habitat across North America.
2008 – Nearly 30,000 attendees turn out to celebrate Pheasants Forever's 25th Anniversary at National Pheasant Fest 2008 in Saint Paul, Minnesota.
2008 - Pheasants Forever helps establish a CRP practice designed specifically for wildlife. Designated Conservation Practice 38 but better know as the State Acres For wildlife Enhancement Program (SAFE), the practice allows states to cater CRP practices to species in greatest conservation need.
Today – Pheasants Forever has over 125,000 members in over 600 chapters in the U.S. and Canada.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:18 am

I belong.....good outfit.

Raising the specter of back room shenanigans between Big Ag and PF is simply more convenient for folks, with agendas well past the pheasant, than looking at accomplishments of PF over time.
Positive track records can be very inconvenient to admit or address.
Easiest to throw mud and hope something sticks.
I doubt there is any game/habitat organization that would find 100% agreement with it's members 100% of the time....be kinda sad if they did, as that would imply pretty shallow and narrow thinking all 'round.

An abundance of any game bird, as an example, is most often about the perfect storm of conditions....but, storms end and game bird populations naturally cycle or, possibly with some birds unlucky in their own limits, decline..... with most high population numbers at any moment often being unsupportable over the advancing years and....from people being people and voters being voters.

To me, it often appears that the most vocal for either back-room shenanigans or any "best" way of anything, are those with too much time on their hands, too great an imagination of evil or, too little understanding of the realities and practicalities at hand.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by BVK » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:33 am

gonehuntin writes:
And in the Dakotas I see the farmers doing the very same thing. They are plowing fence row to fence row. Burning and draining the pot holes. Plowing CRP under. And after they do it, they're giving PF nothing. I don't fault the farmer. On the other hand, they give PF nothing, Monsanto gives them dollars to preserve other land.


I am really cracking up now...this is exactly what I have been saying, but you evidently will never be able to CONNECT THE DOTS! Why do you think this is happening in SD just like it happened in IA, and MN, and is taking place in ND?? Because our Federal Farm Bill encourages it through subsidies to farmers that are far more profitable than CRP or other conservation methods friendly to wildlife and the protection of our environment!!!! Farmers make more by draining, burning, grubbing, and tilling the land and guess what (here's where you are really struggling) because these acres are kept in production Pioneer DuPont, Monsanto and others like them amass record profit as well. There in lies the direct CONFLICT OF INTEREST! Monsanto and Pioneer lobby for a Farm Bill that will put the maximum number of acres under the plow and in row crops and keep it out of CRP. This is directly contrary to PF's mission!

Another shocker for you...why do you think CRP rental rates have not and will not keep pace with rental rates and commodity prices...drumroll.....because Monsanto and Pioneer DuPont (PF's illustrious, stand-up sponsors) are lining the pockets of congressmen to make sure this never happens! Do some research, this is FACT!!!

By the way Ezzy...I think your buddy is dissing farmer's in his above statement as well!! :roll:

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by jack the dog » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:24 am

I am a member of Quail Forever, but I was also a member of Quail Unlimited, don't really know what that says about me. But I do know this, with any organization be it humanitarian, conservation animal rights group or whatever, the human greed factor will creep in. it's just human nature.

But someone needs to advocate for the pheasants and quail and ducks or what will we end up with? Nothing that is what we will get, nothing for doing nothing.
SO if some group stands up and says they will work for the birds, I will probably help them what little I can until they have proven that they cannot be trusted with the funds they have obtained, by whatever means. By supporting PF Big Ag is just performing an act of mediation, the money donated to PF or whoever is a tax right off, so why can not Pf accept the money and use it for good. And right now big ag could use some good PR, especially Monsanto. So take their dang money and use it for good. They will give it to someone else if PF doesn't accept it.

My wife had an uncle that was a southern baptist minister here in these mountains, he has long passed. But he was building a church out in the middle of nothing and no one had money to get much going on the construction. Dirt poor mountain folks all of them, not two cents to rub together. Anyway a well known moonshiner came to the uncle and said, "Preacher, I would like to donate this money for your church. Just so you know I got it for making and selling liquor." It was several hundred dollars and was a fortune at the time. Uncle Preacher says to him "Well the devil has had use of that money long enough, so now lets use it for God". Same way I feel about the Big Ag and Monsanto money, put it to good use for a change.

We probably waited too long to help Gentleman Bob White, DU got an early start and you may not like their style, but what they have been doing since 1937 has saved the ducks, IMO. RGS apparently have abandoned the Southern Appalachians, in my opinion for deeper pockets elsewhere.

I am 60 years of age and was raised on a small hillside farm in Western North Carolina. I watch our quail disappear, I am now watching what seems to be the disappearance of our Ruffed Grouse in these parts. I watched our small farms disappear, there used to be 20+ dairy farms in my county and now there are none, but we have plenty of housing subdivisions where the farms used to be. People like the NWTF brought turkeys back to our part of the country. When I was a kid the only place you could find a turkey was in the frozen food section at our local supermarket. Now you can't get in the woods without running across turkeys (that may be reason for part of the decline of our grouse, but another topic for another discussion). But these organizations can and sometimes work.

What other choice do we have? Either support these organizations and let them do what they wish with the funds, or do nothing? And again, what you get for nothing is just that, nothing.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by MJB64 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:27 am

BVK - I think that you might have to accept the fact that some of these guys cannot see over that stack of Big Ag money that is sitting on the table in front of them. The big picture is out of focus.

Mike

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by cjhills » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:38 am

gonehuntin' wrote:This should answer and rebut some that don't think PF is a good, honest, organization. Taken from their web page:

2005 - Pheasants Forever launches a quail division called Quail Forever. Dedicated to the protection and enhancement of quail, pheasant and other upland wildlife through habitat improvement, public awareness, education and advocacy for sound land management policy, Quail Forever (QF) uses the same unique grassroots system as PF, empowering chapters with the responsibility to determine how 100 percent of their locally raised conservation funds are spent.
2008 - Pheasants Forever's projects benefit more than 5 million acres of wildlife habitat across North America.
2008 – Nearly 30,000 attendees turn out to celebrate Pheasants Forever's 25th Anniversary at National Pheasant Fest 2008 in Saint Paul, Minnesota.
2008 - Pheasants Forever helps establish a CRP practice designed specifically for wildlife. Designated Conservation Practice 38 but better know as the State Acres For wildlife Enhancement Program (SAFE), the practice allows states to cater CRP practices to species in greatest conservation need.
Today – Pheasants Forever has over 125,000 members in over 600 chapters in the U.S. and Canada.
While I have no doubt that PF is a good and well intentioned organization, I and many other people do not like the direction it has gone in recent years. I have been very active in PF. I have attended the state and national conventions has our chapter rep and have been asked to run for the board of directors. I and many of my friends and former members have decided to back away because PF is not what we thought and I would guess most on here have no idea what PF is about.
The main goal of PF Is land procurement, taking it out of production and turning it over to the state DNRs. This is directly opposite of Monsanto and other companies goal. There is no evil conspiracy it is just how things work. PF taking with Monsanto is simply a public relations ploy for Monsanto. That costs peanuts in the grand scheme of things and is great PR. It does not a good PR move for PH however.
The statement that 100% percent of locally raised chapter funds go to the local chapter is misleading at best. All of the money from banquet sponsors except the cost of the meal and all of the dues paid by members goes to PH. Local chapters are also expected to pay into the land acquisition fund and buy a over priced banquet package from PF and are encouraged to support other PF programs. The youth hunts and youth days in our chapter are done at our expense with nothing but a few training aids and cute names for things.
PF will help local chapters financially with land purchases and legalities. That is probably a good thing. Evidentially PF will help with conservation projects on private property , but we could not get a biologist to even answer our calls about our crp in South Dakota. Putting more boots on the ground is the big deal but putting something in the boots may be a more important issue.
While the local chapters do great PF itself not so much . Many south Dakota towns have local clubs that accomplish more........CJ
Some local chapters do very well at improving habitat and youth programs. Almost completely on their own with very little help from PF.
The other thing I question is do we really want to take land out of production forever when it very well may be needed in the future.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:43 am

I figured you would think that. It appears to me they have done that because the price of grain is high and they can finally make some money by planting those marginal acres. Plus in many areas the money that the government was using to rent the ground that we know as CRP has run out. I know in our county that happened several years ago. And in other counties they were using the little they had left just for the cheapest ground they were offered.

You know, honestly, After dealing with the farm chemical business for years and retailing them through out the Midwest, this is the first time I have ever heard of them lobbying the farm bill to influence farmers to plant more. Since farm chemicals is a small percent of their business it just doesn't make much sense. And the Dakota farmers plowing up THEIR land kind of flies in the face of the argument since the crops they plant have little to do with the chemical business.

But, I am sure no argument will make much difference when it comes to a conspiracy, so I will stop here and just tell you I have never seen or heard of a company getting involved in what, when, or how much a farmer plants.

Ezzy

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:51 am

MJB64 wrote:BVK - I think that you might have to accept the fact that some of these guys cannot see over that stack of Big Ag money that is sitting on the table in front of them. The big picture is out of focus.

Mike
And tell us where that BIG AG money goes? you know without that money you wouldn't have any CRP ground over the years plus a lot of other benefits to all of us. But I do kind of agree, we should do away with all aid to the farmers and see what happens to the world. Can you just imagine the millions of people on food stamps having them disappear and they would have to go to work to feed themselves? From what I hear from my grocery check out friend the lobster and other high end meat sales would almost dry up.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:08 pm

Big Whatever helped build this country...sadly, it has not always been an attractive construction project, even today.
But, as a plus that is seldom recognized, it has enabled Little Whatever the option and luxury to voice complaints......often about the very blessings that resulted from construction(cyclical blessings or not) and, not so oddly enough, often about how LW spend their leisure(do that math) time.
Complainers seldom look deeper than the surface of their own complaints....if they did, they might well see themselves....can't have that, now can we?

On the whole and comparably, PF does a darn good job with their particular model of doing business.
The certainly trumped QU.
Of course, PF does have a relatively easy bird and habitat equation with which to deal....again, comparably.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:29 pm

ezzy333 wrote:But, I am sure no argument will make much difference when it comes to a conspiracy, so I will stop here and just tell you I have never seen or heard of a company getting involved in what, when, or how much a farmer plants.

Ezzy
I give up too. I'm out of this merry go round.

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Re: Pheasants Forever

Post by Sharon » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:06 pm

I used to belong to PF , but as little can be done in ON, I turned my money to DU.... only so much money.

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