Question for breedrs

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cjhills
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Question for breedrs

Post by cjhills » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:15 am

I know most breeders on here believe in handshake agreements with nothing in writing. But, what do you when a good deal goes bad?
If you tell your buyers there are no restrictions do you still have the right to put your kennel name on the registration. What happens if the breeder agrees to your chosen name to make the sale and changes it on the NAVHDA reg papers? The dog ends up with to different names. The breeder does not return calls from NAVHDA or the Buyer.
Wouldn't a simple written agreement save a lot of problems.....................................Cj

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dan v
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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by dan v » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:37 am

Still have to enforce them Jerry.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by ultracarry » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:45 am

Why would you ever want to name someone else's dog?

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by Hattrick » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:22 am

I would think the top kennels across the coutry that preregister their puppies will use the kennel name first on the pedigree. I don't think that would be considered a restriction. If a new owner had a problem with that I think the owner would be the problem

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by cjhills » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:41 am

Wyndancer wrote:Still have to enforce them Jerry.
I'm talking about a handshake agreement. Not enforcing anything. Isn't putting his kennel name on the registration a restriction especially after the puppy is paid for, hummmmm! Dan, I guess you are right never thought of it like that. But I really had a lot of respect for the Kennel before this. Well live and learn. NAVHDA finally agreed to my name so it is the same as AKC ......................Cj

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by Hattrick » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:48 am

Who registered the Dog?

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by cjhills » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:58 am

Hattrick wrote:Who registered the Dog?
Me . The issue I had was getting the same name on NAVHDA and AKC . other than that it would not be an issue.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by mactrout » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:03 pm

The breeder does not return calls from NAVHDA or the Buyer.
How does this make sense if you are the breeder?

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by Elkhunter » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:21 pm

You Versatile guys always make buying a puppy difficult! :)

You can buy a Shadow Oak Bo pup today and they would let you name it whatever you would like!

Could name it Shadow's Poodle Princess for all they care! :)

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by Ron R » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:33 pm

ultracarry wrote:Why would you ever want to name someone else's dog?
To take credit for the dog's success! :roll:

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by dan v » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:37 pm

cjhills wrote:
Wyndancer wrote:Still have to enforce them Jerry.
I'm talking about a handshake agreement. Not enforcing anything. Isn't putting his kennel name on the registration a restriction especially after the puppy is paid for, hummmmm! Dan, I guess you are right never thought of it like that. But I really had a lot of respect for the Kennel before this. Well live and learn. NAVHDA finally agreed to my name so it is the same as AKC ......................Cj
Here's what I CAN tell you. The last I know of the AKC blue papers, the one you get from the litter owner. Say a buyer comes to your home to get their pup, maybe you have filled out the first bunch of spaces with you kennel name and hand the papers to the new owner. Then as they are driving home they decide on a better name and whiteout your kennel name...and fill in what they want. AKC will process the white'd out paperwork...as long as it only the name.

Now it could be that has changed, but that may be the reason (in part) why AKC would like breeders to register their puppies before they go home. Using the kennel name of the breeder is just respectful and a tip of the cap to the work they've done in their program. But if I had the stud dog in the litter, and I choose to take a pup, I'm gonna name my pup how I want.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by deseeker » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:47 pm

I believe AKC has it now you can change the dog's registered name one time(costs more money)---IF the dog DOES NOT have an AKC title to it's name. So you could of changed the AKC name to the Navhda name if you had to. :roll:

EDIT---I looked it up on AKC. It costs $25 and the dog can not of received an award at an AKC event or have sired or whelped a litter. AKC has the right to refuse.
Last edited by deseeker on Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by rinker » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:54 pm

"You Versatile guys always make buying a puppy difficult! :)

You can buy a Shadow Oak Bo pup today and they would let you name it whatever you would like!

Could name it Shadow's Poodle Princess for all they care! :)"


I have never heard of a controversy any thing like this with an American Field registered dog/pup. I have one puppy named with the breeder's pre-fix. He asked me politely to use the pre-fix, and I said "sure". I don't think he would have been angry if I said no.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by Ms. Cage » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:01 pm

All our pups carry our kennel name. Name the pup what ever you want as long as the reg. name is Northwaters what ever you want. If a buyer doesn't agree, we don't sell them the pup. If a buyer changes the pups reg. name the pups guarantee is void. All done on a hand shake... We register the pup with NAVHDA for the new owner and hand the new owner AKC blue slip with Northwaters what ever the new owner chooses filled in.
Last edited by Ms. Cage on Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by ultracarry » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:25 pm

If I bought a dog, it's my property to do as I wished, I'll take akc paperwork with any name you told me it should have, get home and throw it in the trash after I register the dog . I wouldn't expect someone to do any different to a dog I sold them.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by Ms. Cage » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:44 pm

cjhills wrote:I'm talking about a handshake agreement. Not enforcing anything. Isn't putting his kennel name on the registration a restriction especially after the puppy is paid for, hummmmm! Dan, I guess you are right never thought of it like that. But I really had a lot of respect for the Kennel before this. Well live and learn. NAVHDA finally agreed to my name so it is the same as AKC ......................Cj
Why would you have any less repect for this kennel. You have been breeding for sometime. i would think you have the knowledge to know , NAVHDA bred dogs carry the kennel name...

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by cjhills » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:49 pm

Ms. Cage wrote:All our pups carry our kennel name. Name the pup what ever you want as long as the reg. name is Northwaters what ever you want. If a buyer doesn't agree, we don't sell them the pup. If a buyer changes the pups reg. name the pups guarantee is void. All done on a hand shake... We register the pup with NAVHDA for the new owner and hand the new owner AKC blue slip with Northwaters what ever filled in.
This is all good but my question was." would a simple written agreement solve this problem" Dan answered that immediately. No.' not if the breeder does not abide by the agreement.
As far as this puppy goes it was if the Kennel name was first or last so it really was not a issue.
The AKC papers came with online registering with a pin no. You can type in whatever name you like which I did. Kennel name as a after the name as agreed. When I got the NAVHDA papers the kennel name was written in as a prefix. I scratch it out and put it at the back. NAVHDA changed it.
When the puppy started his AKC tests I contacted NAVHDA. Since his AKC name becomes permanent when he passes a AKC event. They gave me the breeder contact no. and they tried to contact him When neither NAVDHA or I could get a response they called me and agreed to change the name to the AKC name. So all is well . He has one name. The breeder acuses me of altering the registration. But I would think if this voids any guarantee it probably wasn't worth a whole lot in the first place. Nice Dog though. I give them that. Just had to go through a lot of hassle which I thought a written agreement could have saved me from. But DAN was right they mean nothing.

Personally the only reason I see for name restrictions is to have your clients promote your kennel. We like to have our buyers use or name but it is their choice..............................Cj

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by cjhills » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:59 pm

Ms. Cage wrote:
cjhills wrote:I'm talking about a handshake agreement. Not enforcing anything. Isn't putting his kennel name on the registration a restriction especially after the puppy is paid for, hummmmm! Dan, I guess you are right never thought of it like that. But I really had a lot of respect for the Kennel before this. Well live and learn. NAVHDA finally agreed to the name I chose it is the same as AKC ......................Cj
Why would you have any less repect for this kennel. You have been breeding for sometime. i would think you have the knowledge to know , NAVHDA bred dogs carry the kennel name...
Again Ms. Cage you don't know the facts. Never dealt with NAVHDA before and it wasn't about carrying the kennel. If I would have known I would have skipped the NAVHDA registry.
In our kennel we use our kennel name as prefix on dogs we buy and suffix on dogs we bred. it helped keep things organized back in the day. pretty much all bred by us now.
It was about him agreeing to the name I chose in order to sell the pup and then changing it. My post was" would a written agreement change help this situation"
Dan and ultracarry are absolutely right..............................CJ
Last edited by cjhills on Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by Ms. Cage » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:01 pm

cjhills wrote:[Personally the only reason I see for name restrictions is to have your clients promote your kennel. We like to have our buyers use or name but it is their choice..............................Cj
By using a kennel name it's alot easier to keep track of what the hounds are doing in the NAVHDA world. Promote your kennel, Yes, there's truth to that ...

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by cjhills » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:08 pm

Ms. Cage wrote:
cjhills wrote:[Personally the only reason I see for name restrictions is to have your clients promote your kennel. We like to have our buyers use or name but it is their choice..............................Cj
By using a kennel name it's alot easier to keep track of what the hounds are doing in the NAVHDA world. Promote your kennel, Yes, there's truth to that ...
I do get the NAVDHA requirements. that was not the case according to NAVDHA.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by mactrout » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:16 pm

Sounds like it all worked out in the end. Not sure a written contract can be any more enforced than a handshake tho.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by Hattrick » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:26 pm

Don't really understand your thinking here you do get to name the Dog right behind the kennel name which I think is standard practice. What's the big deal? you probably bought the Dog due to reputation of the kennel and pedigree. If the kennel name is not on the registered name how due you track pedigrees? If its a proven kennel I doubt you will promote it any higher than it has already been promoted and if you due great the kennel and breeding should get some credit too..I would have a real problem with someone wanting to remove my kennel name (if I had a kennel) from a dog and replace it with something else to get credit for my hard work of possibly 15-30 years of selective breeding to produce a great line of desirable dogs. Someone telling me who to breed to if and or I can breed to with only their permission is what I call restrictions not a kennel name on a registration, that's standard practice. Just my 2 cents. Hope you work this out I feel your making to big a deal out of this and seems you are vary happy with the dog so you have apparently choose a nice breeding. Give the kennel the due respect it deserves.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by markj » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:29 pm

And some just dont get it :) good luck there cj.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by ChetB » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:41 pm

deseeker wrote:I believe AKC has it now you can change the dog's registered name one time(costs more money)---IF the dog DOES NOT have an AKC title to it's name. So you could of changed the AKC name to the Navhda name if you had to. :roll:

EDIT---I looked it up on AKC. It costs $25 and the dog can not of received an award at an AKC event or have sired or whelped a litter. AKC has the right to refuse.
My dog was a 2 1/2 year old when I bought her. A few weeks after I registered her as her new owner, I received an email from AKC offering to allow me to change her registered name. I saw no reason to do that, even though she has no titles.


Chet

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by dan v » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:56 pm

Jerry....I don't think there is anything wrong with having some sort of paperwork that states the terms ya'll have agreed to. That said, some buyers need nothing, others will need something.....it kinda depends on each scenario. ie: co-own, breeding rights, naming if co-own...all kinds of things. But at the end of the proverbial day, you still have to enforce said contract....if it is indeed a contract.

A number of our buyers don't even bother to register the dog....they have no interest in doing anything other than hunting the dog.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by JKP » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:08 pm

Breeders should name the dogs. If the name is that important, you can always go to a no name breeder. No matter what the dog's name, you can still say. "Here, Duke!!".
I'd rather sell a pup to someone who wants a hunting dog ... and hopefully more than a name.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by GmanHawaii » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:22 pm

I believe the Breeders name should be in the registered name, but they should not be able to name your dog. For instance one of my GSP's was Attila he was out of Chehalem Mountain Kennels so his registered name was Chehalem Mtns Attila, to us he was just Attila. Its only for the registration, not that big a deal, that was the name I gave him when I sent in the paperwork, it was out of respect for the kennel.

Just my .02

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by onuhunter02 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:42 pm

My breeder put their kennel name on the paperwork but when I registered on the internet I could have put in there what ever I wanted but out of respect for the breeder I kept their name first.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by Elkhunter » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:12 pm

Hattrick wrote:Don't really understand your thinking here you do get to name the Dog right behind the kennel name which I think is standard practice. What's the big deal? you probably bought the Dog due to reputation of the kennel and pedigree. If the kennel name is not on the registered name how due you track pedigrees? If its a proven kennel I doubt you will promote it any higher than it has already been promoted and if you due great the kennel and breeding should get some credit too..I would have a real problem with someone wanting to remove my kennel name (if I had a kennel) from a dog and replace it with something else to get credit for my hard work of possibly 15-30 years of selective breeding to produce a great line of desirable dogs. Someone telling me who to breed to if and or I can breed to with only their permission is what I call restrictions not a kennel name on a registration, that's standard practice. Just my 2 cents. Hope you work this out I feel your making to big a deal out of this and seems you are vary happy with the dog so you have apparently choose a nice breeding. Give the kennel the due respect it deserves.
Telling people what to name their dog is not standard practice. Sorry, just in the Vdog world.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by mountaindogs » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:32 pm

So let me recap to see if I understand.
you buy puppy and kennel name is written in at front
you scratch out on akc and NAVHDA papers and move kennel name to end
Akc accepts but NAVHDA denies
This leaves you with akc registered dog but not navhda
The dog get akc event passes or points and now you can not change the akc name so NAVHDA name needs to change.
Was NAVHDA requiring breeder to sign off on name change?
Was breeder refusing to do so?
Are you sure you both understood upfront that you wanted the name reversed?

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:08 pm

Elkhunter wrote:
Hattrick wrote:Don't really understand your thinking here you do get to name the Dog right behind the kennel name which I think is standard practice. What's the big deal? you probably bought the Dog due to reputation of the kennel and pedigree. If the kennel name is not on the registered name how due you track pedigrees? If its a proven kennel I doubt you will promote it any higher than it has already been promoted and if you due great the kennel and breeding should get some credit too..I would have a real problem with someone wanting to remove my kennel name (if I had a kennel) from a dog and replace it with something else to get credit for my hard work of possibly 15-30 years of selective breeding to produce a great line of desirable dogs. Someone telling me who to breed to if and or I can breed to with only their permission is what I call restrictions not a kennel name on a registration, that's standard practice. Just my 2 cents. Hope you work this out I feel your making to big a deal out of this and seems you are vary happy with the dog so you have apparently choose a nice breeding. Give the kennel the due respect it deserves.
Telling people what to name their dog is not standard practice. Sorry, just in the Vdog world.
Elkhunter, you are wrong

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by dsmtsi » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:02 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Elkhunter wrote:
Hattrick wrote:Don't really understand your thinking here you do get to name the Dog right behind the kennel name which I think is standard practice. What's the big deal? you probably bought the Dog due to reputation of the kennel and pedigree. If the kennel name is not on the registered name how due you track pedigrees? If its a proven kennel I doubt you will promote it any higher than it has already been promoted and if you due great the kennel and breeding should get some credit too..I would have a real problem with someone wanting to remove my kennel name (if I had a kennel) from a dog and replace it with something else to get credit for my hard work of possibly 15-30 years of selective breeding to produce a great line of desirable dogs. Someone telling me who to breed to if and or I can breed to with only their permission is what I call restrictions not a kennel name on a registration, that's standard practice. Just my 2 cents. Hope you work this out I feel your making to big a deal out of this and seems you are vary happy with the dog so you have apparently choose a nice breeding. Give the kennel the due respect it deserves.
Telling people what to name their dog is not standard practice. Sorry, just in the Vdog world.
Elkhunter, you are wrong

It's a pretty standard practice all over the dog world, they all want credit for their hard work.

If your buying from that kennel you must like what they have to offer. Throw them a bone and stick with the kennel name.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by Elkhunter » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:00 pm

Ezzy dont think that I am! :D

That is basically unheard of in the pointer/setter world.

I literally think its a Vdog/AKC thing.

Also if I put the hard work to accomplish great things on my dog, I can name him whatever I want.

Guaranteed you can buy a Shadow Oak Bo pup today and name him whatever the heck you want to.

Which is another reason I dont buy dogs from "breeders".

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by Ms. Cage » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:09 pm

Elkhunter wrote:That is basically unheard of in the pointer/setter world.
Elhew, Miller, Caladen's, Grouse Ridge.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by cjhills » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:17 pm

mountaindogs wrote:So let me recap to see if I understand.
you buy puppy and kennel name is written in at front
you scratch out on akc and NAVHDA papers and move kennel name to end
Akc accepts but NAVHDA denies
This leaves you with akc registered dog but not navhda
The dog get akc event passes or points and now you can not change the akc name so NAVHDA name needs to change.
Was NAVHDA requiring breeder to sign off on name change?
Was breeder refusing to do so?
Are you sure you both understood upfront that you wanted the name reversed?
You are starting to get it. I really don't give a hoot what the dog is named and I don't care what the seller wants. If we agree up front. It was not taking the Kennel name out it was changing from prefix to suffix. The issue I have is that we agreed on what the dog would be named and there would be no restrictions. Before I sent the check. Try to understand this was the second to last pup sold from 2 litters and the buyer was pretty happy to get rid of it. when I got the paperwork I AKC registered the dog on-line with the name We had agreed to. The kennel name was in the registered name at the back. On the NAVHDA papers it was in front. I scratch it out and put it at the back. When I got the paper work back they had changed it back and a few other changes. I had not heard from NAVHDA or the seller. So the dog is registered with two names. We will be starting his master so I would like him to have one name. The AKC name which we agreed on. I called NAVHDA they informed me the buyer would have to okay the change. I had lost contact with them so AKC gave me a new phone no. which I called and got voice mail. with no calls returned a couple days later NAVHDA called and informed me that since they too could not reach the seller they would OK the name change and it made no difference where the kennel name was as long as it was in the name. So I have what I want. When we finally got in contact with the seller he was Irate to say the least and accused me of altering the paper work among other dishonest things. I offered to cancel the NAVHDA registration and remove his kennel from the AKC name. He wants me to leave it as is which I will likely do. The dog is very nice we will promote him and having him in my kennel is a asset to both kennels. I am happy the dog has a nice heated air condition kennels. lots of hunting and a occasional lady friend soon all is well. It was just such a battle to get here. There was no chance of a misunderstanding. If I had known I would have not registered NAVHDA.
My original question was; "would a simple written agreement saved me the problems"? I have always thought it would now I know I have been wrong. Next thing somebody will tell me there is no Santa Claus. DANG!!! I have no issue with whatever restrictions the sellers wants to put on their dog as long as they are up front. I can take it or leave it. Until I pay for the dog then it is game over. Sorry this got so long hope everybodies questions were answered.............................Cj

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by Middlecreek » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:21 pm

Elkhunter wrote:Ezzy dont think that I am! :D

That is basically unheard of in the pointer/setter world.

I literally think its a Vdog/AKC thing.

Also if I put the hard work to accomplish great things on my dog, I can name him whatever I want.

Guaranteed you can buy a Shadow Oak Bo pup today and name him whatever the heck you want to.

Which is another reason I dont buy dogs from "breeders".
Elkhunter has it right..... it's the exact opposite actually, you have to earn/prove or in some cases can buy the right to use a kennel name. Can't just put an Erins/Whippoorwill/etc. on a dog even if they came from that kennel or sire and dam have the prefix. They are trying to set a standard that says if a dog has an "x" prefix it is something we are striving for as a breeder or is a quality enough animal to deserve the prefix. Looking for quality not quanity

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by mountaindogs » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:35 pm

I see. Personally I do think it would have helped if the name issue were in writing up front. If anyone was not really listening and or missing something reading it helps them see. If the name was that big of a deal to the breeder then you would likely have had to add in a clause on the written agreement with allowed name or such. It wouldn't help you solve it now as they are not much help with enforcing issues but I like to believe it makes people pay better attention up front. Also NAVHDA might have not required the adfitional breeder sign off with a written contract stating that already.
That's my opinion. Crazy to me that that made them so mad but I guess we all have our issues.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by dan v » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:37 pm

For those that keep bring up Shadow Oak Bo.....you do know that he is not a she...right? :lol:

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Post by Ricky Ticky Shorthairs » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:38 pm

I have bought dogs from BDK, Chisholm Creek, and Cuttin' Wild Kennels. Nobody told me or asked me to use their kennel name. I asked, and all said yes.I only used CCK. Just my experience.

Doug

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wems2371
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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by wems2371 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:05 pm

If you own a GSP, kennel names within the registered name have been going on forever. Drill back on your pedigree far enough and you should see a kurzhaar with a v, von, von der, or vom something or another. This isn't new and it didn't have to be earned. It was ancestral, denoting dogs born of the same kennel. A quick flip through The Complete German Shorthair, shows that practice as early as 1889. Maybe some want kennel recognition for their breedings, and why shouldn't they? You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, right? Maybe some want it to keep track of their progeny. It's very easy with a kennel name to find out about a line of dogs, whether they be your own progeny or others. It's a common denominator for research, not any different than a persons surname. Big tadoo about nothing IMO.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by birddogger » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:07 pm

wems2371 wrote:If you own a GSP, kennel names within the registered name have been going on forever. Drill back on your pedigree far enough and you should see a kurzhaar with a v, von, von der, or vom something or another. This isn't new and it didn't have to be earned. It was ancestral, denoting dogs born of the same kennel. A quick flip through The Complete German Shorthair, shows that practice as early as 1889. Maybe some want kennel recognition for their breedings, and why shouldn't they? You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, right? Maybe some want it to keep track of their progeny. It's very easy with a kennel name to find out about a line of dogs, whether they be your own progeny or others. It's a common denominator for research, not any different than a persons surname. Big tadoo about nothing IMO.
I agree completely!

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by Elkhunter » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:36 pm

birddogger wrote:
wems2371 wrote:If you own a GSP, kennel names within the registered name have been going on forever. Drill back on your pedigree far enough and you should see a kurzhaar with a v, von, von der, or vom something or another. This isn't new and it didn't have to be earned. It was ancestral, denoting dogs born of the same kennel. A quick flip through The Complete German Shorthair, shows that practice as early as 1889. Maybe some want kennel recognition for their breedings, and why shouldn't they? You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, right? Maybe some want it to keep track of their progeny. It's very easy with a kennel name to find out about a line of dogs, whether they be your own progeny or others. It's a common denominator for research, not any different than a persons surname. Big tadoo about nothing IMO.
I agree completely!

Charlie
I agree kennel names have been around for a long time, what I disagree is the DEMAND that you name the dog after their "kennel". That is not common practice.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by cjhills » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:41 pm

birddogger wrote:
wems2371 wrote:If you own a GSP, kennel names within the registered name have been going on forever. Drill back on your pedigree far enough and you should see a kurzhaar with a v, von, von der, or vom something or another. This isn't new and it didn't have to be earned. It was ancestral, denoting dogs born of the same kennel. A quick flip through The Complete German Shorthair, shows that practice as early as 1889. Maybe some want kennel recognition for their breedings, and why shouldn't they? You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, right? Maybe some want it to keep track of their progeny. It's very easy with a kennel name to find out about a line of dogs, whether they be your own progeny or others. It's a common denominator for research, not any different than a persons surname. Big tadoo about nothing IMO.
I agree completely!

Charlie
You all miss the point completely it is not about naming requirements. It is about changing the rules after the game is played. I have a naming clause but it is a suggestion. As long as it is up front who cares. I know kennels that won't give you breeding papers on females I don't have to buy the pup if I don't like it.
It is a little something when the dog ends up with two names. Again the original post was if a written agreement would solve the issue. Dan is right . It wouldn't. Returning a call to myself or NAVHDA would have ,but that is another issue.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by birddogger » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:57 pm

I simply don't have a problem with it and I like being able to see what kennels have good breeding programs and reputations. If a dog is having good success in any venue, I see nothing wrong with a kennel getting recognition for the breeding that produced that caliber of dog. Besides the kennel name is just a prefix or suffix, I can still name the dog anything I want and would still be listed as the owner/handler. :D I know this has nothing to do with the original question but it kind of got sidetracked to opinions on this. There is no right or wrong....Just depends on how each individual sees it.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by wems2371 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:00 pm

cjhills wrote: You all miss the point completely it is not about naming requirements. It is about changing the rules after the game is played. I have a naming clause but it is a suggestion. As long as it is up front who cares. I know kennels that won't give you breeding papers on females I don't have to buy the pup if I don't like it.
It is a little something when the dog ends up with two names. Again the original post was if a written agreement would solve the issue. Dan is right . It wouldn't. Returning a call to myself or NAVHDA would have ,but that is another issue.
You are correct, as I was addressing the whole name thing that erupted. I do know of a person that enforced a contract. She got back an older dog that she deemed was being neglected. I don't remember the circumstances other than matted coat, long nails, etc...and grooming or lack thereof was literally in her contract. The owners got divorced. Dog was still being fed, but maybe not being kept ideally. I don't know if it would have been enough for animal control to step in, but my friend wanted her dog back versus it going to a shelter, so she went through the court system. I don't know of anything that's been done over naming, although I don't doubt it has. If written contracts were truly worthless, would they exist in any facet of life? For me, it would depend on how the contract is written, how much money I wanted to spend to enforce it, how much time I wanted to spend trying to enforce it, and what's to be gained. For most things, it's probably more of a hassle, but I do believe writing out details could be a deterrant for some to try to cheat an agreement. According to your story, yes, you got the short end of the stick IMO...but it sounds like it worked out okay in the end for you.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by Neil » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:49 am

If I buy a dog I will put my kennel name as the prefix, if it is already registered I will change it. FDSB will let you change the name of a National Champion, I know dogs that have had 3 and 4 names. AKC will not if there are any placements.

There are two reason's for my thinking; one, the dog is my property, two, if I am able to develope the dog, I deserve the credit. As for knowing the breeding on a dog, that is the purpose of the pedigree. I will not accept a pedigree unless it is from the registering body so the titles are correct and not something made up.

If the breeder does not like it, they can keep the pup. It is one of the reasons I do not live in Germany, that and my grandkids.

A written contract, unless you want to go to court, would not help. And in fact is more likely to get you in court.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by birddogger » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:48 am

If the breeder does not like it, they can keep the pup. It is one of the reasons I do not live in Germany, that and my grandkids.
And that is why it shouldn't matter. Everybody has a choice of where and who they want to buy a pup from. For me it is not an issue but for many it is a big issue.

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by JKP » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:33 am

the dog is my property, two, if I am able to develope the dog, I deserve the credit.
The flip side being the breeder owns the pup...its his property....then you come and want to buy it. he put in the work....he titled the dogs....he took the risks.

If you develop the dog, the genetics is what did it too....

Guess I have a problem with this whole line of whining because i though it was supposed to be about the dogs...or a breed,,,and all it boils down to is "Look at me!!".

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Re: Question for breedrs

Post by cjhills » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:55 am

Neil wrote:If I buy a dog I will put my kennel name as the prefix, if it is already registered I will change it. FDSB will let you change the name of a National Champion, I know dogs that have had 3 and 4 names. AKC will not if there are any placements.

There are two reason's for my thinking; one, the dog is my property, two, if I am able to develope the dog, I deserve the credit. As for knowing the breeding on a dog, that is the purpose of the pedigree. I will not accept a pedigree unless it is from the registering body so the titles are correct and not something made up.

If the breeder does not like it, they can keep the pup. It is one of the reasons I do not live in Germany, that and my grandkids.

A written contract, unless you want to go to court, would not help. And in fact is more likely to get you in court.
This is pretty much my take. I have always put our name as a prefix on dogs we buy and the breeder at the back if they want their name on the dog. most breeders agree to anything when the pup is three months old. The dog world is quite small and good dogs come to the top. Breeders can do whatever they like as long as it is before the deal is made. I like to have buyers use my kennel name, but if they choose not to it is their choice. When we breed one or two litters a year we are not going to have much of a lasting effect on the dog world.
I like to have my sons carry on my name. With the dogs it's not that important........................CJ
To Wem: I am not saying I got the short end of the stick. I got a very good deal on a really good puppy. Who makes my day every day and has really helped get through a long winter. I couldn't be happier with the dog. The bummer is that It turned into a major hassle and PIA. My main concern is how can I make sure it does not happen again. from all the posts on here I don't think a written agreement would have helped.

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