Field Conformation vs Show Conformation.

[birddog1968]

What's a complete dog? One that trains easily, hunts well, does it efficiently and lives a long healthy life, in the home or kennel?

AF hasn't had a problem doing that, tho as with any breed due diligence by pup purchasers is always wise.

[fuzznut]

When I am looking at a litter of puppies from a great pedigree, with proven parents,I have to have something to separate them. Something that I look for to pick one. For me, first it's temperament- outgoing, inquisitive, interested in stuff around them, not afraid to get away from their litter mates or me and coordination. I usually always put them on birds if possible, or at the least a wing. Just want to see what I see... After that... I look at the conformation and discard any with obvious faults or DQ's - bad bites, horrible coat, really straight front and or rears. I look for balance, straight isn't the end of the world as long as it's on both ends. Then the dog is balanced and something I see in a lot of AF pointers. They are usually much straighter with less angulation then most of the "show dogs", more moderate. It seems to work for them well.

What you can't see at 8 wks is heart, and desire and that all to the wall determination- and that is every bit as important (and maybe more so) then perfect conformation. But, looking at a batch of adorable, sweet smelling puppies... gotta have something to weed out the bunch. Some are able to just reach in and grab.... and sometimes that works too! In fact, my three best dogs to date were leftovers that no one wanted. Maybe that's how I should pick them from here on?

It's tougher when trying to go for that Dual Champion... luckily my breed has been doing pretty good at producing some really good ones. Hats off to the breeders keeping both in mind.

[Ms. Cage]

At what point would you consider a dog having to much angulation ?

[ezzy333]

I haven't seen a sporting dog with too much. Of course the German Shepard comes to mind.

Ezzy

[Ms. Cage]

At what point would you consider a dog having to much angulation

I haven't seen a sporting dog with too much. Of course the German Shepard comes to mind.

That's right where I wanted to go with this question . Cam folks start putting to much emhasis on comformation (angulation) That the sporting breds start having rear end much like the German Shepards. Some breeders I know seem to think we need to be breeding Vdogs to show strains to improve angulation. IMO we have plenty of FT dogs and NAVHDA dogs that we don't need to breed to pure show strains to improve angulation. or breed to a dual that is out of pure show strain.

[slistoe]

At what point would you consider a dog having to much angulation ?

When it no longer outperforms the other dogs in the field. Which would be most show bred dogs, where angulation is bred for simply for the sake of theoretical angulation to the point that performance angulation is left out of the equation. Field dogs without adequate or with too much angulation soon get left out of the breeding equation.

[dan v]

I haven't seen a sporting dog with too much. Of course the German Shepard comes to mind.

Ezzy

You haven't been looking hard enough. Shows setters can have too much rear angulation....in order for their hocks to be perpendicular to the floor/ground, they are stretched over an amazing amount of ground.

[fuzznut]

I was going to mention the Setters and also the Weims with sometimes much too much rear angulation. It is pretty, but doesn't help them with running. It's especially not good when they are straight in the front shoulder and way over in the rear, that's how you get those ski slope top lines. And it's a lot of work for the dog to bring all that rear up underneath itself to drive off the rear, tiring and wasted movement.

Most of the sporting breeds call for moderate angulation. Of course moderate is one of those words that can have lots of meanings.

Good conformation, good useable working conformation shows when a dog is on the move. See lots of gorgeous dogs standing still, but then they fall apart when moving.

[SCT]

At what point would you consider a dog having to much angulation ?

When it no longer outperforms the other dogs in the field. Which would be most show bred dogs, where angulation is bred for simply for the sake of theoretical angulation to the point that performance angulation is left out of the equation. Field dogs without adequate or with too much angulation soon get left out of the breeding equation.

Exactly!!!! That's the problem with the show folks, they don't address function any further than theory (except for a trot). Efficient galloping is key for field dogs and if anyone wants to read something about angulation that is based on real life proven functionality, they should read "Dog Locomotion and Gait Analysis" by Curtis Brown. He dispels any theory BS. But, the vast majority don't care enough to inform themselves, including show judges, to change their thinking. So, to each his own.

I'll post this little goodie from the book again.