Bloodlines

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Sundby
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Bloodlines

Post by Sundby » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:35 pm

Hi, I have been looking for a gsp male puppy, I have done a lot of research and reading on bloodlines and lots of conversations with breeders but I am still trying to find the best kind of blood for me, I'm in North Dakota and mostly pheasant hunt, I'm looking for a true companion bird finding maching that excels both land and water, in my research I have found that there are basically the german blood, hustler, grief, Stradivarius etc, then there are the other bloodlines, moesgaard, dixieland, slick, tonellis rising sun, windrows saddle, etc, I am basically confused... What would be in my best interest to go for? I have no idea and I know there are different opinions but I would like some unbiased opinions to help me out, pm me if you want, thanks for your help.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Ms. Cage » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:12 pm

I would have looked at the litter in Howard Lake Mn.... Several males available.
JJ x Greta.png
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Re: Bloodlines

Post by polmaise » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:31 pm

Sundby wrote: What would be in my best interest to go for? I have no idea and I know there are different opinions but I would like some unbiased opinions to help me out,
Follow the money!
Looks like you are already hooked on the names anyway :roll:
My 'Unbiased' opinion.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Sundby » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:40 pm

polmaise wrote:
Sundby wrote: What would be in my best interest to go for? I have no idea and I know there are different opinions but I would like some unbiased opinions to help me out,
Follow the money!
Looks like you are already hooked on the names anyway :roll:
My 'Unbiased' opinion.
I'm not hooked on any names, Just looking for some help to point me in the direction I should go, I can't see the parents of the litters without traveling along distance any the names I mention seem to be everywhere. Thanks for your help.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by birddogger » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:48 pm

Ms. Cage wrote:I would have looked at the litter in Howard Lake Mn.... Several males available.
JJ x Greta.png
Nice breeding and I would add that from what you are wanting, stick with the successful NAVHDA breeders. JMO.

Charlie

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Sundby » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:51 pm

birddogger wrote:
Ms. Cage wrote:I would have looked at the litter in Howard Lake Mn.... Several males available.
JJ x Greta.png
Nice breeding and I would add that from what you are wanting, stick with the successful NAVHDA breeders. JMO.

Charlie
Thanks, I will check more on that litter.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by dsmtsi » Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:08 pm

I would stick with NAVHDA breeders. The kennel I chose after a long search was Standing Stone Kennels. They will have three litters this spring but I'm not sure if they are sold out. https://www.facebook.com/StandingStoneKennels

If you want to see paper here is my pups paper. http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=5615
She has done everything I've asked and more with water fowl and upland hunting. I'm sold on NAVHDA!

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Sundby » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:58 pm

How are navhda breeders different than other breeders? Is it just so you know there dogs are tested and how well they perform in the field?
Thanks
dsmtsi wrote:I would stick with NAVHDA breeders. The kennel I chose after a long search was Standing Stone Kennels. They will have three litters this spring but I'm not sure if they are sold out. https://www.facebook.com/StandingStoneKennels

If you want to see paper here is my pups paper. http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=5615
She has done everything I've asked and more with water fowl and upland hunting. I'm sold on NAVHDA!

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Ms. Cage » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:11 pm

No other pointing dog system outside of the German system demands both land and water.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by cjhills » Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:14 am

Ms. Cage wrote:No other pointing dog system outside of the German system demands both land and water.
Never had a dog yet that I couldn't get in the water. Some take a bit of introduction. Maybe all. Saw a lot of NAVHDA dogs that had to be introduced to water, just like any other dog. Even most Labs don't swim naturally.
He did say he was looking for a unbiased opinion.
There are a lot of good GSPs out there. In fact you would have to be unlucky to find a bad one. But don't rule out breeders that aren't NAVDA, They are just breeders like all of us....................CJ

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by cjhills » Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:22 am

dsmtsi wrote:I would stick with NAVHDA breeders. The kennel I chose after a long search was Standing Stone Kennels. They will have three litters this spring but I'm not sure if they are sold out. https://www.facebook.com/StandingStoneKennels

If you want to see paper here is my pups paper. http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=5615
She has done everything I've asked and more with water fowl and upland hunting. I'm sold on NAVHDA!
Not saying anything bad about Standing Stone. Ethan is a good guy and they do a good job, But, to say they are NAVHDA breeders is a bit of a stretch. We all know where his dogs are from and they have no more NAVHDA breeding than any body elses. If you want NAVHDA go to SharpShooter. That is where most come from........................CJ

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Carolina Gundogs » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:22 am

CJ, I understand your reasoning and post, I have owned pups from the majority of the various popular bloodlines and occasionally one may be a little different from its parents. However, I have found choosing a pup from the chosen testing or trial venue that has succeeded will greatly increase your odds of getting a pup that can master the same goals as the parents. I believe in your case, your dogs come from bloodlines that showed strengths in the various testing areas and were specifically bred that way in the past. However, the chances of a successful AA field trial pup from the same litters would be much harder. Although some dogs may be more trainable than others, I believe strong water drive and strong tracking can be very much enhanced through genetics (good pairings showing these traits). After all that is how I believe the pointing breeds were established and promoted.

I have seen many dogs get into the water to cool off but when it comes time to do a duck search in 30 or below temperatures and are sent out on a blind retrieve for it, not all dogs are equipped for this. This would be the same as saying not all dogs are equipped for a one hour Horseback stake.

I believe in the genetics behind the dog. After all, the gene pool is what makes the GSP a GSP and a Setter a Setter or even a giraffe a giraffe.

I enjoy working the different pups/dogs with very different bloodlines. From this past Saturday, this pup will without a doubt will be a very nice Field Trial dog with a natural range extending way on out but checking back to make sure of where I am. She is very very loving and tries hard to please but hates cold water.
photo (2).JPG
This is another very nice female but bred different, for close working foot hunting and water work. She is from successful NAVHDA parents and hits the cold water hard as this was preprogrammed in her. She show spromise of becoming a world class hunting companion and hopefully a VC one day:
photo.JPG
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Re: Bloodlines

Post by wems2371 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:58 am

cjhills wrote:Never had a dog yet that I couldn't get in the water. Some take a bit of introduction. Maybe all. Saw a lot of NAVHDA dogs that had to be introduced to water, just like any other dog.
+1 Get them going as puppies, when the world is their oyster, as far as learning and accepting new things.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Carolina Gundogs » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:02 am

wems2371 wrote:
cjhills wrote:Never had a dog yet that I couldn't get in the water. Some take a bit of introduction. Maybe all. Saw a lot of NAVHDA dogs that had to be introduced to water, just like any other dog.
+1 Get them going as puppies, when the world is their oyster, as far as learning and accepting new things.
+2. I believe that is very important.

PS= WEMS2371, Very Nice Avatar!

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Ms. Cage » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:10 am

Tim, Would the w/b be JJ X Briar ?

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Ms. Cage » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:26 am

cjhills wrote:He did say he was looking for a unbiased opinion.
Jerry, i feel my opinion is unbiased. Howie owning and training GSP's for almost 50 years and having early dogs out of Tell, Boss Ranger , Moesguaards Dee Jackson , Flying Dutchman, Rusty etc. The NAVHDA bred dogs for Howie fit what he likes today . Well rounded.hunting dogs.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by cjhills » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:40 am

Ms. Cage wrote:
cjhills wrote:He did say he was looking for a unbiased opinion.
Jerry, i feel my opinion is unbiased. Howie owning and training GSP's for almost 50 years and having early dogs out of Tell, Boss Ranger , Moesguaards Dee Jackson , Flying Dutchman, Rusty etc. The NAVHDA bred dogs for Howie fit what he likes today . Well rounded.hunting dogs.
I just don't think blood lines and unbiased should be allowed in the same post of course you are biased so am I and every body else who breeds dogs. Nothing wrong with that. But if he asks for an unbiased opinion he won't get mine. Especially if it is in regards to one of my stud dogs. If I wasn't biased he would be gone......Cj

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Carolina Gundogs » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:44 am

Ms. Cage wrote:Tim, Would the w/b be JJ X Briar ?
Yes, this is the female I am working from the JJ X Briar litter. She is doing very nicely at this time.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Carolina Gundogs » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:51 am

cjhills wrote:
Ms. Cage wrote:
cjhills wrote:He did say he was looking for a unbiased opinion.
Jerry, i feel my opinion is unbiased. Howie owning and training GSP's for almost 50 years and having early dogs out of Tell, Boss Ranger , Moesguaards Dee Jackson , Flying Dutchman, Rusty etc. The NAVHDA bred dogs for Howie fit what he likes today . Well rounded.hunting dogs.
I just don't think blood lines and unbiased should be allowed in the same post of course you are biased so am I and every body else who breeds dogs. Nothing wrong with that. But if he asks for an unbiased opinion he won't get mine. Especially if it is in regards to one of my stud dogs. If I wasn't biased he would be gone......Cj
CJ, First of all I believe you have some very nice dogs. I am familiar with the bloodline and have owned and seen others as well that were very very nice. However, I believe you can keep a stud dog in your kennel and not be biased towards it if he has proven to have the skills as required. Now, if you keep a stud that is not proven out, then bias may be part of the equation.

In Ms. Cages response, it was not biased in anyway (IMO) as their dogs have proven themselves as top performing athletes as well as producers in the venues they have chosen.

The good thing about the tests and field trials are that they take away the bias and show what dogs actually meet the goals.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Sundby » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:16 am

I'm curious why when you look at navhda breeders majority of them seem to be along the german bloodlines? And field trial dogs are American bloodlines... Did I word that right?

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Ms. Cage » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:34 am

Sundby wrote:I'm curious why when you look at navhda breeders majority of them seem to be along the german bloodlines? And field trial dogs are American bloodlines... Did I word that right?
Yes, IMO you worded it right. I wasn't involved in NAVHDA in thier beginning. NAVHDA dogs seamed built off of German and American bloodlines early on . Primary seamed to be Blood like Hustler and Windows Saddle Tramp and a few others crossed to German blood. The way I understand it is the German blood brought more water work , track ability since the German are more fur hunters and closer working dogs. the American blood brought to the table style and speed. Both with good noses. Wish I could expand on this more for you. if Howie was at home he could add more depth to the answer. Hope this helps some.
Last edited by Ms. Cage on Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by minigooch » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:58 pm

Sundby I have a pup from Friedelshiem GSP and am very happy. He has another breeding happening now . In my recent search for a pup I learned that if you find a breeder or line you like you need to contact them early. Good luck.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Sundby » Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:27 pm

Maybe I will buy one of each and I will be able to see the differences between them, that's about the only way one would know what he likes, that would be pretty fun! I have had 3 female wirehairs in the past and I loved them, they were all just pups I got in town from guys that hunted, and they were great. One other question I have is my old wirehairs could take the brush for days, I have friends that have there shorthairs and after a day, there stomach and pits are basically raw, do certain shorthair lines have thicker coats?

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Ms. Cage » Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:46 pm

Sundby wrote:Maybe I will buy one of each and I will be able to see the differences between them, that's about the only way one would know what he likes, that would be pretty fun! I have had 3 female wirehairs in the past and I loved them, they were all just pups I got in town from guys that hunted, and they were great. One other question I have is my old wirehairs could take the brush for days, I have friends that have there shorthairs and after a day, there stomach and pits are basically raw, do certain shorthair lines have thicker coats?


Yes, JJ and Blitz have heavier longer coats with total belly hair and privates. Some of us northern folks breed for this coat. We see it in some of the Shooting Starr, Sharp Shooter blood and some of the German dogs. I can't speak for other blood. I Hope others pipe in....

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by volraider » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:07 pm

Find someone that hunts wild pheasants and wild ducks and you will be happy with a pup from their litter. Mrs.Cage has some very nice dogs and proven on wild birds so that would be a great place to start. Don't limit yourself 20 minutes on the phone will give you a good idea if the breeders have what you are looking for.

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Bloodlines

Post by ACooper » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:42 pm

Sundby wrote:I'm curious why when you look at navhda breeders majority of them seem to be along the german bloodlines? And field trial dogs are American bloodlines... Did I word that right?
Many folks subscribe to the "horses for courses" theory.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Ms. Cage » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:07 pm

Another kennel you might want to look at is Grouse Points . [url][http://www.grousepointkennels.com [url] Carey has very simular blood to ours.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by dsmtsi » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:16 am

cjhills wrote:
dsmtsi wrote:I would stick with NAVHDA breeders. The kennel I chose after a long search was Standing Stone Kennels. They will have three litters this spring but I'm not sure if they are sold out. https://www.facebook.com/StandingStoneKennels

If you want to see paper here is my pups paper. http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=5615
She has done everything I've asked and more with water fowl and upland hunting. I'm sold on NAVHDA!
Not saying anything bad about Standing Stone. Ethan is a good guy and they do a good job, But, to say they are NAVHDA breeders is a bit of a stretch. We all know where his dogs are from and they have no more NAVHDA breeding than any body elses. If you want NAVHDA go to SharpShooter. That is where most come from........................CJ

My post was more to a testament to NAVHDA, knowing ahead of time your going to hunt waterfowl more then
sometimes. I'm not saying joes dog down the road won't hunt waterfowl. Most of them will but like most I'm guessing he isn't going to want to sell the pup if it doesn't work out. So going with a breeder that tests pups and uses UT and VC dogs you have a near guarantee the dog will hunt waterfowl like 90% of hunters want them to.

I don't get into arguments over breeders there are 10,000s and every one has their favorite for some reason. To say that Sharp Shooters is the only place to get NAVHDA dogs or where they all come from is a bit of a stretch... Lots of great breeders out there.
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Re: Bloodlines

Post by trueblu » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:29 am

The best advice you've been given is to find a person who hunts the heck out of his dogs on the game you plan to hunt in the country you plan to hunt and buy the pup you like best from that litter. Where NAVHDA lines, true NAVHDA lines, are proven in the testing arena, that means a hair more than anything else when you consider abilities on wild game. A field trial bred pup, bred from multiple national champs, may or may not make it as a trial dog or even as a wild bird hunting dog. A NAVHDA bred pup may or may not be a duck and pheasant machine. You hedge your bet, that's all, buying those "lines". SEE the sire and dam, see them worked on birds, talk to those who have HUNTED over the breeder's dogs. If they cannot provide names and numbers, then run from them. Tests are fine, but HUNTING is proof, more than anything.

Don't get too excited about old names. First, the GREIF, not grief, name has been watered down so much that it's very tough to find a true Greif dog nowadays. So called Rusty breedings, no such thing IMHO. Rusty was a tremendous dog with the dogs I've seen with the monaker of "Rusty bred" or "Rusty lines" not even a shadow of Rusty and what he was.

From what I've seen, the Sharp Shooter dogs are pretty darn nice dogs. I've hunted over them, judged them at trials, seen them AKC Hunting Test tested, and tested in NAVHDA. Dang nice!!

Don't listen to the sales pitches, the people who TELL you how great their dogs are on wild birds. Get references.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by cjhills » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:50 am

Unbiased: Free from bias. especially: free from all prejudice and favoritism. That is from Webster's Dictionary.
Not trying to start a hassle, Howie has nice dogs. But when you say you have bred for fifty years to get the dogs you like you are biased.
Just don't see what the fact that they are proven has to do with being biased or not. They are proven to do what you want not necessarily what I want. I guess you could say it gives you the right to be biased. I might buy that.
Personally, I have no need for the duck search. I don't know if that is a shackled duck, but soon the ARs will stop that if it is. I also try to discourage tracking and my biggest problem with the German bred NAVHDA dogs is there tendency to put there nose on the ground also some have a bit too much killer instinct for my taste. Also I think if the breeder requires you to get a NA title on the pup to promote his kennel he should at least pay the entry fee. That is my very biased opinion.
I gave this a lot of thought and again I am not putting down any ones dogs I like them all. I have seen most of them or close relatives to them................................Cj

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Carolina Gundogs » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:57 am

trueblu wrote:The best advice you've been given is to find a person who hunts the heck out of his dogs on the game you plan to hunt in the country you plan to hunt and buy the pup you like best from that litter. Where NAVHDA lines, true NAVHDA lines, are proven in the testing arena, that means a hair more than anything else when you consider abilities on wild game. A field trial bred pup, bred from multiple national champs, may or may not make it as a trial dog or even as a wild bird hunting dog. A NAVHDA bred pup may or may not be a duck and pheasant machine. You hedge your bet, that's all, buying those "lines". SEE the sire and dam, see them worked on birds, talk to those who have HUNTED over the breeder's dogs. If they cannot provide names and numbers, then run from them. Tests are fine, but HUNTING is proof, more than anything.

Don't get too excited about old names. First, the GREIF, not grief, name has been watered down so much that it's very tough to find a true Greif dog nowadays. So called Rusty breedings, no such thing IMHO. Rusty was a tremendous dog with the dogs I've seen with the monaker of "Rusty bred" or "Rusty lines" not even a shadow of Rusty and what he was.

From what I've seen, the Sharp Shooter dogs are pretty darn nice dogs. I've hunted over them, judged them at trials, seen them AKC Hunting Test tested, and tested in NAVHDA. Dang nice!!

Don't listen to the sales pitches, the people who TELL you how great their dogs are on wild birds. Get references.
+1

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by cjhills » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:02 am

Carolina Gundogs wrote:
trueblu wrote:The best advice you've been given is to find a person who hunts the heck out of his dogs on the game you plan to hunt in the country you plan to hunt and buy the pup you like best from that litter. Where NAVHDA lines, true NAVHDA lines, are proven in the testing arena, that means a hair more than anything else when you consider abilities on wild game. A field trial bred pup, bred from multiple national champs, may or may not make it as a trial dog or even as a wild bird hunting dog. A NAVHDA bred pup may or may not be a duck and pheasant machine. You hedge your bet, that's all, buying those "lines". SEE the sire and dam, see them worked on birds, talk to those who have HUNTED over the breeder's dogs. If they cannot provide names and numbers, then run from them. Tests are fine, but HUNTING is proof, more than anything.

Don't get too excited about old names. First, the GREIF, not grief, name has been watered down so much that it's very tough to find a true Greif dog nowadays. So called Rusty breedings, no such thing IMHO. Rusty was a tremendous dog with the dogs I've seen with the monaker of "Rusty bred" or "Rusty lines" not even a shadow of Rusty and what he was.

From what I've seen, the Sharp Shooter dogs are pretty darn nice dogs. I've hunted over them, judged them at trials, seen them AKC Hunting Test tested, and tested in NAVHDA. Dang nice!!

Don't listen to the sales pitches, the people who TELL you how great their dogs are on wild birds. Get references.
+1
+100

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by cjhills » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:07 am

One more thing. The old time big name stud dogs were bred to so many females that you could get anything in their pedigrees.
Some were bred 100 or more times. Blood lines from way back are questionable at best. They will give you a place to start. But some Like Hustler are a distant memory.........................Cj

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Carolina Gundogs » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:09 am

cjhills wrote:Unbiased: Free from bias. especially: free from all prejudice and favoritism. That is from Webster's Dictionary.
Not trying to start a hassle, Howie has nice dogs. But when you say you have bred for fifty years to get the dogs you like you are biased.
Just don't see what the fact that they are proven has to do with being biased or not. They are proven to do what you want not necessarily what I want. I guess you could say it gives you the right to be biased. I might buy that.
Personally, I have no need for the duck search. I don't know if that is a shackled duck, but soon the ARs will stop that if it is. I also try to discourage tracking and my biggest problem with the German bred NAVHDA dogs is there tendency to put there nose on the ground also some have a bit too much killer instinct for my taste. Also I think if the breeder requires you to get a NA title on the pup to promote his kennel he should at least pay the entry fee. That is my very biased opinion.
I gave this a lot of thought and again I am not putting down any ones dogs I like them all. I have seen most of them or close relatives to them................................Cj
CJ, I apologize if i offended you as it was not intended if this post was directed back at me.
I was only trying to show that just because you have a stud in your kennel and use him doesn't necessarily indicate you are biased and that you cannot see what will move your kennel forward.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by dsmtsi » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:14 am

Asking for an unbiased opinion here is like asking a politician how he's going to vote! There is always a touch of bias or leaning towards a type of dog. CJ I I don't think your putting anyone's dogs down, just pointing out our bias.

I've hunted with every kind of shorthair you can think of. FT lines, NAVHDA lines, show dogs, and nothing dogs with not even a JH in 5 generations. They all hunted and every owner loved them. I decided my game was going to be NAVHDA because Of how I hunt. So I guess I have a bias towards them.

I agree with above go see the parents nothing more unbiased then dogs on birds!

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Ms. Cage » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:05 am

cjhills wrote:But when you say you have bred for fifty years to get the dogs you like you are biased.

Cj Never said Howie has bred dogs for fifty yrs. I said he has owned and trained gsps for fifty years. Because I stated this doesn't make me bias. I stated what blood he had in the past and what he enjoys today. If a dog isn't a damm good wild bird dog , titles are meaningless in IMO. Hunting dog first , test dog second. If a dog can not handle ruffed grouse consistantly , he's down the road...
Last edited by Ms. Cage on Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by cjhills » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:32 am

Carolina Gundogs wrote:
cjhills wrote:Unbiased: Free from bias. especially: free from all prejudice and favoritism. That is from Webster's Dictionary.
Not trying to start a hassle, Howie has nice dogs. But when you say you have bred for fifty years to get the dogs you like you are biased.
Just don't see what the fact that they are proven has to do with being biased or not. They are proven to do what you want not necessarily what I want. I guess you could say it gives you the right to be biased. I might buy that.
Personally, I have no need for the duck search. I don't know if that is a shackled duck, but soon the ARs will stop that if it is. I also try to discourage tracking and my biggest problem with the German bred NAVHDA dogs is there tendency to put there nose on the ground also some have a bit too much killer instinct for my taste. Also I think if the breeder requires you to get a NA title on the pup to promote his kennel he should at least pay the entry fee. That is my very biased opinion.
I gave this a lot of thought and again I am not putting down any ones dogs I like them all. I have seen most of them or close relatives to them................................Cj
CJ, I apologize if i offended you as it was not intended if this post was directed back at me.
I was only trying to show that just because you have a stud in your kennel and use him doesn't necessarily indicate you are biased and that you cannot see what will move your kennel forward.
Gundogs:
Do not ever feel the need to apologize to me. I am a bit technologically challenged and could not figure out how to reply so you got to be it. If you read all the names I've been called on here you know it is pretty hard to offend me. Thanks foe the thought though.
I understand your point. But I am thinking the mere fact that you have that dog in your kennel, if you are a breeder makes you show bias toward him and I would hope you think he will move your kennel forward. I can't tell you how many dogs I sold over the years because I didn't feel they would do that.
I think the Dogs are pretty much all good and a lot of the NAVHDA thing is training as much as breeding. I do not know about the rest of the country, but up here NAVHDA pretty much started with Shooting Star and went to Sharpshooter. Most VC peds I have read have one or both of these kennels if you go back very far.
I think this is a interesting discussion......................CJ

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Sundby » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:14 am

What were you hunting with these different shorthairs and what did you like and dislike about them?
dsmtsi wrote: I've hunted with every kind of shorthair you can think of. FT lines, NAVHDA lines, show dogs, and nothing dogs with not even a JH in 5 generations. They all hunted and every owner loved them. I decided my game was going to be NAVHDA because Of how I hunt. So I guess I have a bias towards them!

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Ms. Cage » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:19 pm

CJ Why do you seem to know so much about NAVHDA and the dogs but have never been a member or run any NAVHDA test ? Trying to educate myself. Most of my info comes from my husband , I'm learning....

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by cjhills » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:24 pm

Ms. Cage wrote:CJ Why do you seem to know so much about NAVHDA and the dogs but have never been a member or run any NAVHDA test ? Trying to educate myself. Most of my info comes from my husband , I'm learning....
I have ran hunt tests with NAVHDA dogs, hunted with NAVHDA dogs, owned quite a few NAVHDA dogs. In fact I have two pups right now who have VC parents. One is not going to be what I want for sure and as you know I just sold a litter which was sired by VC Cash's son bred an owned by Chad. His Dam is a son of Josh Who I think is a VC. Not sure about that but I believe you would know because I think you have a pup from Honker also. I have attended NAVHDA events and observed while deciding if it was the way I wanted to go. I have studied pedigrees and talked with Mr.Vetter. Some of my info comes from your husband also. Some from Ed Erickson. Also looked at a dog from Corey when he was first starting. I have run my dogs in hunt tests with all four. I have bought pups from the doctor whose name escapes me, who owns Shooting Starr. I think his Heir Jordan dog was on of the leading sires of NAVHDA.
As I stated before I do not like the NAVHDA bred dogs who put there nose to the ground too much. I did decide not to do NAVHDA because I don't need the duck search and I don't encourage trailing. I decided to go AKC Hunting test because it is more what I like in a hunting dog. And you can qualify many different styles of dogs and don't have to train for ever. All of my Master dogs were hunting before the were tested. Also the german lines have a little too much prey drive for my taste.
Hope this answers your question. If you need more feel free. Be aware I am not putting down NAVHDA or anybodies dogs. Just not how I want to go.
Last edited by cjhills on Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Ms. Cage » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:54 pm

Thanks for the the info. back up a few posts you stated you had no need the duck search. I don't know if that is a shackled duck... If have watched NAVHDA tests you would know it's a live duck with some flight feathers pulled...

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by Hattrick » Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:09 pm

Cj sounds like you like softer breed dogs and that's ok too. Its a enough breeders out there you can seek out what suits ur needs. Happy hunting:-)

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by birddogger » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:48 pm

Bottom line is when you breed for certain traits within cetain lines as NAVHDA breeders do, the odds of producing the traits you are looking for are much better than just picking a puppy from anywhere and trying to train it for the traits you want. The reason I advised NAVHDA breeders to the OP is because I think, from what he said, this would increase the odds of getting the type of dog he is looking for. I for one, am not biased at all on this. It is simply my honest opinion. If the OP had stated he wanted a dog to hunt strictly upland birds on the open prairies, my opinion and advise would be totally different.

Charlie

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Re: Bloodlines

Post by j.digiacomo » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:20 am

birddogger wrote:Bottom line is when you breed for certain traits within certain lines as NAVHDA breeders do, the odds of producing the traits you are looking for are much better than just picking a puppy from anywhere and trying to train it for the traits you want. The reason I advised NAVHDA breeders to the OP is because I think, from what he said, this would increase the odds of getting the type of dog he is looking for.
x100.

There are several guys practicing the same line breeding methods out there right now. Some on larger/professional scales, and some on smaller home-grown scales. Either way you look at it, the lines are the 'proofed' if you will through the NAVDHA system against the same standard. I landed with two Friedelsheim dogs. Nothing but good things from my guys and both are headed to the 2014 Invitational. You're on the right track as far as talking to breeders, but the owners of the dogs (and the dogs themselves) will hold the most valuable info. Many will give you names of owners for testimonials.

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