People tracking dogs

[deke]

Had a weird thought the other night, and I cant think of a reason why it wouldn't work; figured I would put it on here and someone would have the answer.


So, I live fifteen minutes away from where that huge mudslide happened, and we have been watching on the news as dozens of dogs comb through the mud trying to locate people. We got to talking about why they are using certain breeds, and how to train a dog to find a person or body. Then we started talking about search and rescue dogs, and this is where my " AHA" moment happened. They mostly use hounds to track people in the backwoods that have gone missing, Why not use pointers? Let a few of them go around the area where the person has gone missing and let them run all over the place trying to find them. I don't own pointers but have seen enough to know that they cover way more ground then a hound. A person must smell a lot stronger than a bird, so the dogs should be able to pick up scent further away. They could have gps collars on so you would know which areas have been searched and which areas might need more attention, you could even put a big red panic button on the collar so if the dog finds someone and they hit the button it lights up everyones gps. It has been driving me nuts the last few days, because I cant think of a reason this wouldn't work. And I feel like someone should of already thought of this, so there must be a reason.

[birddog1968]

A pointer in that situation would likely end up a broken bloody mess.

Cadaver dogs smell body gasses and that takes some time and I can only guess that maybe that mud is so tight scent has trouble escaping.

[RoostersMom]

A friend that I met through the Birddog Jamboree is working his English setter on SAR work. I also know of a Vizsla and several GSP's that are being used now in differing types of either search and rescue or bomb detection work. The homeland security dog trainers I met in San Antonio are using GSP's a lot with the bomb detection work. A friend that I went to college with is often deployed nationwide with her 3rd SAR dog - she uses labs. She uses labs because of the high ball drive. She also buys from hunting stock litters.

[slistoe]

I know at one time there was a fellow interested in using Brittanys as drug detection dogs in airports because they would be less alarming to the crowds of people. The experiment did not work out as they were not interested in adapting the training methodology to the dogs, requiring that the dogs adapted to their training method which was based around retrievers and German Shepards. I suspect some of those same factors would be at work in your idea.

[slistoe]

A fellow I sold a Brittany pup to used it for SAR work. Another person used their Brittany as a diabetec detection dog. Their noses are more than adequate for the task. It is simply a matter of finding the motivator that will make them approach the work with a passion.

[deke]

A pointer in that situation would likely end up a broken bloody mess.

Cadaver dogs smell body gasses and that takes some time and I can only guess that maybe that mud is so tight scent has trouble escaping.

I figured as much for the mud work. I was thinking more out in the woods. Every year we hear stories about hikers that are lost and they know the general area they are but cant pin point them. Wouldn't a big running pointer that could cover 10 maybe 20x more ground than an average dog work good in that situation.

[birddog1968]

Yes I could see that working well, we had a lab here find a guy in 120 ft of water as the dog stood on the bow of the boat...amazing.

[ezzy333]

A pointer in that situation would likely end up a broken bloody mess.

Cadaver dogs smell body gasses and that takes some time and I can only guess that maybe that mud is so tight scent has trouble escaping.

I figured as much for the mud work. I was thinking more out in the woods. Every year we hear stories about hikers that are lost and they know the general area they are but cant pin point them. Wouldn't a big running pointer that could cover 10 maybe 20x more ground than an average dog work good in that situation.

I think you will find a hound trails while pointers are looking for body scent. Hounds have excellent noses and are more adept at trailing cold scents.

Ezzy

[big swill]

It's not just about the nose. Having trained these types of dogs there are reasons you typically see the same types of breeds. DoD, US Customs, and Special Ops won't even look at a dog that doesn't have an extreme natural retrieve drive. Customs won't touch a dog that won't retrieve metal. They look for dogs with an over the top toy (ball) drive. I'm not talking about a dog that likes the ball, I'm talking about a dog that will literally climb you to get it. Those organizations don't take the time to wait on a forced retrieve to be put on the dog. Doesn't matter how good the sniffer is. Labs typically have a very high toy drive, so they're easier to train on dope and explosives. The dog learns that when it scents the objective, it gets its ball. It's the same concept with the other breeds, GSD's, Belgian Malinois, etc. And they want them "green" trained. You can imprint them but they want to finish them. Those dogs hit the ground running before 18 months, finished.

SAR dogs have to be natural trackers. Not hunters, trackers. The best trackers I've ever seen, hands down, are still blood hounds. They can't be beat tracking in the woods but they're not athletic enough to work on a rubble pile. You're starting to see the govt. agencies look at some other breeds due to having issues finding vendors that can find and supply dogs that can pass their tests. A lot of SAR handlers contract their services out so it's a lot easier to pick a breed and take your time in getting it where you want it.

[shiloh123]

I believe this is in German but using google translator one can get the drift: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... otAQsJbhaA
They use a spinone and a vizsla.

[Fun dog]

There are volunteer SAR groups you can join with your dog. They will accept all types and look for a good prey drive. However they don't want dogs that have been trained for hunting.

[wems2371]

There are volunteer SAR groups you can join with your dog. They will accept all types and look for a good prey drive. However they don't want dogs that have been trained for hunting.

I am working on AKC tracking with a GSP right now. We've only done 3 trainings, but I'm hoping to get her through a TD this fall. I was just talking about SAR with another forum friend the other night. She echoed what you just said that they don't want dogs that have hunted. I believe she said that they worried that game could then be a distraction in the search, or be confusing as to what scent the dog might be on.

[fuzznut]

there is a long time GWP breeder in the area of the slide out there using a GWP in the rescue. Her reports have been sad and shows the emotion and effort put forth.

there are several GWP's in SAR work, some do great, others do not. It seems to be an individual dog thing.... but bless all those who give it a shot!

[Nutmeg247]

there is a long time GWP breeder in the area of the slide out there using a GWP in the rescue. Her reports have been sad and shows the emotion and effort put forth.

there are several GWP's in SAR work, some do great, others do not. It seems to be an individual dog thing.... but bless all those who give it a shot!

The time commitment for the handlers is amazing by itself. Each big event like that slide, or even just simple big thunderstorm systems with tornados, mean there are lots of handlers and dogs ponying up.

[deke]

A pointer in that situation would likely end up a broken bloody mess.

Cadaver dogs smell body gasses and that takes some time and I can only guess that maybe that mud is so tight scent has trouble escaping.

I figured as much for the mud work. I was thinking more out in the woods. Every year we hear stories about hikers that are lost and they know the general area they are but cant pin point them. Wouldn't a big running pointer that could cover 10 maybe 20x more ground than an average dog work good in that situation.

I think you will find a hound trails while pointers are looking for body scent. Hounds have excellent noses and are more adept at trailing cold scents.

Ezzy

I understand that hounds are better for trailing, and pointers are more focused on the wind. But why not use them both? You could have pointers running through the forest looking for a person, while a hound tries to track the trail. I know it wouldn't work in big mud slides or tornados, but what about hikers? Maybe I am totally wrong thinking you could train a pointer to locate a person, but I would think their speed and wind scenting ability would be a very good set of skills if you were looking for someone lost in the woods.