Gun Dog Forum

Is this possible? Was talking to a guy that has a liver/white male gsp from one of my past litters (NFC Chisholm Creek's Jax Orbetter X daughter of CH/FC H's K-Man Guy). No black and white dogs in this male's pedigree anywhere.

He said he bred him to a solid liver female, whom I would assume has at least one parent that is solid black or black and white and he got a litter that was half b/w and half l/w. I did not know this was possible. Regardless of the grandparents, I thought one of the parents had to be b/w for the pups to be b/w.

Can anyone enlighten me on this?

thx, Steve

That's my understanding also. Black is a dominate gene , so one of the parents would have to be black.

True one parent has to be black! I have had a solid black female that I breed to a white and black male 2 of there liver female pups have been breed to other liver males and no black pups from them. You have to have a black sire or dam doesn't mater!

I don't know if this is the same but.......my lab puppy came from a black mom and a yellow dad and the litter was 3 yellows and 3 chocolates. Black didn't come through at all.

http://www.dogstuff.info/coat_colour_gsp_byrne.html

You are right. Black is dominant so if a dog has the gene at all it will show it. No "hidden" black. So a parent must BE black either solid or ticked to pass on black.
I would strongly suspect that that litter had someone other "babydaddy" involved if what he says is true. I'd be DNA testing those pups in a heartbeat.

Ok thx. Maybe he misspoke and meant to say the dam was black roan or maybe I misunderstood him. I have not seen the female, just a pic of the pups from last summer.

Now I would not be surprised if half the litter was "solid." That would be normal when a parent is solid. It gets even more interesting is you breed a liver and white ticked GSP to a solid black GSP, but I digress.

mountaindogs wrote:Now I would not be surprised if half the litter was "solid." That would be normal when a parent is solid. It gets even more interesting is you breed a liver and white ticked GSP to a solid black GSP, but I digress.

Why does that get more interesting. I must be missing something.
you need one solid parent to get solid and at least one black or black and white parent to get black. at least in GSPs. If a dog does not have a black nose it is not black no matter how dark the liver appears............................Cj

The guy was talking about two different litters he previously whelped. The litter with black roan puppies came from a l/w male and a b/w female. Don't know where he and I's confusion came from, but we got squared away now. He was surprised how little color the male threw as all pups from the litter were b/w or black roan.

cjhills wrote:

mountaindogs wrote:Now I would not be surprised if half the litter was "solid." That would be normal when a parent is solid. It gets even more interesting is you breed a liver and white ticked GSP to a solid black GSP, but I digress.

Why does that get more interesting. I must be missing something.
you need one solid parent to get solid and at least one black or black and white parent to get black. at least in GSPs. If a dog does not have a black nose it is not black no matter how dark the liver appears............................Cj

Because if you have one solid black parent and one liver and white ticked parent you can have solid black, solid liver, black and white ticked and liver and white ticked puppies all in the same litter. Nothing about really dealing with noses. But for clarification. All liver puppies will have the liver self colored noses and the black puppies will have black noses regardless of solid or ticked.
But only if you has BbSs (Black Solid colored dog carries ticked, carries liver) and bbss (liver ticked dog, carries only what you see)
so you can have BbSs (solid black) Bbss (ticked black) bbSs (solid liver) bbss (ticked liver)

but now the OP has figured the situation out, does that makes up off topic?

I got the same thing breeding a solid liver female with a black and white male ..................Cj

Yep as long as your black was Bb and not BB
pretty cool stuff I love color genetics. (but not in peas, corn, fruit flies)