Gun Dog Forum

I posted this in my into thread, but I realize maybe this is more of a general topic so I thought I'd post it here as well. My apologies to the moderators if this is a faux pas. I'm new here.

My name is Matthew and I'm in Birmingham, AL. I recently moved back to Alabama after spending several years in the Washington, DC area. I'm new to gun dogs, in fact I've never really owned one. I've always been a bulldog guy and I've owned both french and english bulldogs in the last decade. I'm an avid hunter of game species found in the Southeast, and I'd like to expand that to upland birds and other species as well. My last (and first) English Bulldog is a bit long of tooth, and I'm thinking about getting a gun dog for my next companion when her time finally comes. A few other things about me, I'm 31 years old, I'm a nurse at a major academic medical center, and I have small children at home.

In Alabama we don't hunt a lot of upland birds. In the 1970s quail were the most abundant and often hunted game species, but their numbers have declined and uncoordinated management efforts have not produced a large huntable population outside of pricey private plantations. As a result, big game, doves, small game, and turkeys are our primary game species. We have some duck hunting in the northern and southern parts of the state, but good duck hunting mostly requires a drive to the Mississippi flyway be it Arkansas or elsewhere. We can't hunt turkeys with dogs, and its rather warm here during dove season. Rabbit hunting is fairly common with beagles being the most common breed. A lot of people hunt deer and feral hogs with bay dogs and hounds. I'm looking for a dog that will retrieve doves for me in hot weather, retrieve ducks in water that seldom freezes, flush rabbits, blood track game, alert me to presence of strangers around the home, house train easily, and mind its manners around toddlers. You know...the perfect dog. =) We're fairly active, but we also work long hours so a dog that enjoys hiking, playing with kids, and hunting would be great, but I'd rather not have a super high strung dog that's going to require hours of throw the ball everyday. I live in a suburb and have a large fenced in back yard, and we have a family farm on 47 acres where the dog will be spending some time.

Here's the breeds I have in mind and the potential issues:

1. Pudelpointer: sounds like it would fit the bill, but I can't find a breeder in the southeast.

2. Deutsche Drahthaar: sounds like it would also fit the bill, there are a couple breeders within easy driving distance including in-state, but I keep hearing about aggressive dogs that aren't that great around kids. I really like the appearance of the dog and the history.

3. German short hair: sounds great, but I hear that they may have the highest exercise requirements of any breed. Breeders are fairly common, I like the coat for hot alabama weather, and I love the appearance of the dog.

4. Chesapeake Bay retriever: I encountered this dog living in Maryland. I'm a U of Maryland grad and I have a lot of connections to the state. I befriended a chessie that was a therapy dog in one of the hospitals I've worked in. I think they're gorgeous, more interesting and rare than other retriever breeds, but also hear they're hard to train and can be nippy with children. I'm also concerned that the coat may be too heavy for Alabama weather (100% humidity, and 100+ degree temps during dove season). In short, seems like a winter duck dog and I live in a mild climate with a small duck population.

5. Labrador/ Golden retrievers: fits the bill in a lot of ways and great as a family dog, super common to the point of being boring and difficult to find good hunting dog stock. Might get too hot in Alabama weather. Not such a great watch dog.

6. Boykin spaniels: sounds good, a little on the small/feminine side, 37% hip dysplasia prevalence in the breed? no thanks. As a bulldog owner I'm acquainted with lots of vet bills. I don't mind them, but I'd rather not have my own personal parking space at the specialty vet clinic. I think I bought my veterinary orthopedic surgeon a new boat, and the vet ophthalmologist sends me Christmas cards. Must be a relatively healthy breed.

7. english cocker spaniel: beautiful dogs but again not as masculine as I'd like. Seems a bit too small to retrieve ducks on big water like the Tennessee river. Might be a good dove dog.

Honorable mentions that aren't considered gun dogs:

1. catahoula leopard dog: well adapted to the climate, smart, not a bird dog, not a natural retriever, fairly easy to find, good on rabbits, good blood tracking dog, best bay dog around for big game. I've heard that they can be trained to retrieve ducks, but I've never encountered that. High exercise requirements.

Sorry for the long winded post, but that's where I'm I am at the moment. I am open to suggestions and feedback.

I'm a Pointer guy but I think you need a Lab. It would seem your requirements are retrieving from land and water primarily so find yourself some Lab breeders who breed working (field) dogs and go see them.

You didn't mention the need for a pointing dog so I wouldn't go with the versatiles.

Good luck.

I agree with the lab recommendation. However, I'm an advocate of those non-masculine cockers that can't handle ducks.... :roll:

I think you are short selling the Boykin, the ones I have seen are hunting machines. Other than geese they will retrieve anything else in the water with no problem. They are good fur and feather upland dogs. You can check for dysplasia in their pedigree and rule out that line. And feminine is not a work I would use to describe a Boykin. They are more like a long haired Chessie with short legs and easier to train.

Diogenes wrote:6. Boykin spaniels: sounds good, a little on the small/feminine side, 37% hip dysplasia prevalence in the breed? no thanks. As a bulldog owner I'm acquainted with lots of vet bills. I don't mind them, but I'd rather not have my own personal parking space at the specialty vet clinic. I think I bought my veterinary orthopedic surgeon a new boat, and the vet ophthalmologist sends me Christmas cards. Must be a relatively healthy breed.

fishvik wrote:I think you are short selling the Boykin, the ones I have seen are hunting machines. Other than geese they will retrieve anything else in the water with no problem. They are good fur and feather upland dogs. You can check for dysplasia in their pedigree and rule out that line. And feminine is not a word I would use to describe a Boykin. They are more like a long haired Chessie with short legs and easier to train.

I've had Boykins almost as long as you have been alive and health issues with them has been nil. What's more they're averaging 15+ years on this earth, and I value above all the extra companionship from the most companionable gundog (and undeniably best doving dog) on the planet.

Due diligence (and a little discretionary income) are all it takes to get a Boykin that's been bred properly and replete with health clearances. Oughta be pretty easy for a nurse - a male nurse, with or without a feminine side, anyhow

And about those geese, no "buts" or "other thans" about it, they're like anything else for Boykins in the water - or on land - if so trained: No problem



"No problem" being a refrain about geese that applies to this particular feminine creature a couple thousand times over in her 13 years.

MG

I was waiting for you MG

Cass, I don't make a habit of recommending dogs or dog breeds, but when I see "received wisdom" about them that needs rectifying, 'fraid I may bare my teeth a little.

Such as this

5. Labrador/ Golden retrievers: fits the bill in a lot of ways and great as a family dog, super common to the point of being boring and difficult to find good hunting dog stock. Might get too hot in Alabama weather.

when, of all the gundog breeds, there's the greatest preponderance of performance Labs to choose from - again, if one chooses wisely (and not from "received wisdom").

MG

Diogenes wrote: 1. Pudelpointer: sounds like it would fit the bill, but I can't find a breeder in the southeast.

http://www.lonepinepudelpointers.com/

The "non masculine" breeds will help you with the Christmas decorating.
Mike

Well first lemme remove my foot from my mouth. Now:

I didn't mean to offend anybody's taste in dogs. Did I mentioned I know next to nothing about gun dogs? I know next to nothing about gun dogs. Like I said I've had bulldogs for the longest time. Everything seems a little feminine next to one of those pigeon toed underbite having meatballs.

I sincerely appreciate all the advice. Thanks everybody. I'm actually probably leaning towards Boykin at this point.

Diogenes wrote:Chesapeake Bay retriever:....I think they're gorgeous, more interesting and rare than other retriever breeds, but also hear they're hard to train and can be nippy with children. I'm also concerned that the coat may be too heavy for Alabama weather (100% humidity, and 100+ degree temps during dove season). In short, seems like a winter duck dog and I live in a mild climate with a small duck population.

I've actually found CBRs very easy to train...much like training a human teenager <VBG> If your the type of person who is patient and can provide firm, but fair and consistent corrections you will go far. However, if your not patient, or fair or consistent in training they will rebel just like a human teenager! People call them stubborn but actually they are very smart breed...too smart at times LOL Sorry, but any breed can nippy with children! Dogs are only animals and it is JMO no dog should be trusted with children unsupervised or your just asking for trouble! CBRs are a breed that needs constant socialization and they also want a close bond with their human family...if you want a dog to sit in a outdoor kennel 24/7 and take them out hunting a few times a year a CBR is not your breed! I send this link to all my prospective first time CBR owners who want a pup...90% of the time I never hear back for them which is a good thing...CBRs are not the breed for everyone

http://www.cbrrescue.org/articles/dontbuy.htm

I've actually found CBRs very easy to train...much like training a human teenager <VBG> If your the type of person who is patient and can provide firm, but fair and consistent corrections you will go far. However, if your not patient, or fair or consistent in training they will rebel just like a human teenager! People call them stubborn but actually they are very smart breed...too smart at times LOL Sorry, but any breed can nippy with children! Dogs are only animals and it is JMO no dog should be trusted with children unsupervised or your just asking for trouble! CBRs are a breed that needs constant socialization and they also want a close bond with their human family...if you want a dog to sit in a outdoor kennel 24/7 and take them out hunting a few times a year a CBR is not your breed! I send this link to all my prospective first time CBR owners who want a pup...90% of the time I never hear back for them which is a good thing...CBRs are not the breed for everyone

This is a statement that is pretty close if not completely accurate. And I have seen it written many times. Can't agree with the statement about all dogs not being with kids but...................

When I said I have seen this written many times the only difference is that it has been written about every breed of dog there is and it is remarkably accurate for each one of them.

Ezzy

Hi Diogenes,

Welcome! You don't say what you will be able to do several times a week to exercise the dog. Also, I don't believe you say whether the dog will be in the house, or a kennel, and whether everyone in the house is on board with shedding and oil issues from the dog's coat. I don't believe many small children are going to actually give the dog much serious exercise. Depending on what hiking means to you, hiking may or may not give the dog a lot of exercise.

An adult dog in the second half of its first decade could be a good answer to some of what you're looking for in terms of a dog that's calmer around kids, already well-socialized, etc. etc.

FWIW, hearing what you're looking for, I thought lab in terms of a large number of potential good fits, but the shedding, etc. may or may not be to your liking.

Picking up on some things your said (“GSP having the highest exercise requirements) and “I have had bull dogs”

it’s probably safe to say all of the gun dogs mentioned will have a much higher exercise requirement than your typical bull dog. I consider my Large Munsterlander as a middle of the road breed, energy wise (for a working breed) and at 2 years he still needs 1-2 hours of off leash daily, shorter if there is good mental stimulation.

One other thing to think about as your picking your breed is , don’t think entirely on how the dog will fit your hunting as it is now, though it is important, but add to it what hunting opportunities can having a dog open up to me.

I've actually found CBRs very easy to train...much like training a human teenager <VBG> If your the type of person who is patient and can provide firm, but fair and consistent corrections you will go far. However, if your not patient, or fair or consistent in training they will rebel just like a human teenager! People call them stubborn but actually they are very smart breed...too smart at times LOL Sorry, but any breed can nippy with children! Dogs are only animals and it is JMO no dog should be trusted with children unsupervised or your just asking for trouble! CBRs are a breed that needs constant socialization and they also want a close bond with their human family...if you want a dog to sit in a outdoor kennel 24/7 and take them out hunting a few times a year a CBR is not your breed! I send this link to all my prospective first time CBR owners who want a pup...90% of the time I never hear back for them which is a good thing...CBRs are not the breed for everyone

Absolutely agree with this. My chessie is my shadow, fiercely loyal, and very alert. I think the stubbornness comes from intelligence and a bit of skepticism "are you sure you want me to do that". Just slower to mature and require consistency (though they all do). I can turn the dog's energy on or off, which was a high priority for me in the suburbs. Shes happy to run, hunt, fetch, or hike all day without tiring or spend a full day sleeping under my desk at work. Without a doubt trust her with kids, but that still doesn't mean I would leave any animal totally unattended with small children. Not a kennel dog. They are big heavy muscular dogs with a thick coat though, in northern and central CA which is also quite warm I have not yet had a problem with the heat. I do hunt ocean waterfowl on occasion and really wanted a breed capable of that.

You have picked a lot great breeds! Based on your criteria have you considered a Wirehair Pointing Griffon? I have only met a couple, but they are slightly smaller physically and seemed more biddable relative to the DD's I've met. They have a very similar appearance. Maybe fits what you're looking for?

Good luck!

I would say a Lab, find a good breeder, make sure they are field bred.

Another possibility for you would be Deutscher Wachtelhund or easily pronounced as German Spaniel. They are the most versatile dog that I've seen and can handle anything you mentioned. They might be "too much" dog for you though, not sure on that.

http://deutscherwachtelhund.org/

All my posts have to be approved to show up so there's a little lag in my responses.

Just to answer a few questions:

1. The dog would be a member of the family and probably sleep in a dog bed in my bedroom. That where all my other dogs have slept since we kicked them out of the bed (basically when we had a baby).

2. Were actually getting out of bulldogs because of their poor activity tolerance. When I lived in a 700 square foot apartment in DC and was busy with school/work all the time bullies made a lot of sense. Now we have a little more room and a much more active lifestyle. 4 days a week I jog/ hit the gym or weather permitting do a 7.5 mile loop around Red Mountain which is very hilly and right near my house. It's a park for trail runners but we mostly walk it. None of the bullies can keep up but the frenchies do better than the English. I'd like a dog that I could take backcountry camping as well, a breed that can wear a pack and carry it's own food/ water into sipsey wilderness or section hike the AT would be great. The problem is that 3 days a week I work 12 hour shifts and don't have hours to play after I get off work. Wife works long hours sometimes too.

3. It's going to be a little while before I get another dog. I'm trying to do my research ahead of time.

A GSP would fit the bill for you I'd imagine, or a lab. I have 3 Pointers, 2 GSP's, a Vizsla, and 2 CBR's. A well-bred lab or a well-bred GSP will be easier for the newbie to train than a lot of the others you mentioned. To tolerate the heat in your area, just buy from a reputable breeder that knows the dogs' tolerance to heat (one of my GSP's is a mess in the heat of the day, but the other handles the heat very well). Neither of our CBR's handle the heat at all. I wouldn't "dock" a dog at all for "not such a good watchdog." I, personally, would stay away from a DD based on the heat intolerance and some concern over aggressiveness - the last can be mitigated by only buying from proven stock that have good temperaments - the same thing when choosing a CBR breeder.

A well-trained lab is a thing of beauty and I sure wouldn't call them boring - pick the right one and you'll have a constant companion for your kids and a great hunting buddy too.

In your situation - with working 12 hour shifts and a wife that works long hours too, I would look into getting a started dog, not a puppy. Puppies require a ton of care and socialization - that is hard enough when one works a regular job and probably close to impossible with both of you working long hours. As a foster dog person, I run into lots and lots of great young dogs that have passed through the puppy stage and are ready for a family to bond with - if you find a great breeder they will oftentimes have started dogs or even have a dog returned (divorce, finances, death in the family, moving) that will turn out to be an awesome family and hunting dog. I just got a fantastic GSP from a guy that was moving and couldn't take the dog. She's five and totally broke, loves the family, swims like a fish, and is a very experienced wild bird (and field trial) dog. You just need to keep an open mind.

Just echoing some of what Roostersmom has said, with you and your wife both working long hours, definitely consider a started dog or even a full adult. I don't own a lab, but am involved with a local lab rescue out west, and for 5+ year old dogs here, there are some really great dogs to look at. You don't need or necessarily want a high-drive dog given your hunting and other (hiking, etc.) goals, so a mellow adult could be great.

Regarding Catahoulas, etc. btw, I'd shy away, same for worrying too much over a good "watch dog." A show-bred American cocker is likely to still be a good watch dog for you. With you and your wife both working, a guard dog (as opposed to watch dog) probably is going to leave you over-dogged. If you really are concerned about a masculine-image dog and so don't want a lab or spaniel for that reason, frankly some pits are good retrievers. An older, mellow pit that likes to chase balls but doesn't destroy toys normally could be taught to retrieve and flush rabbits for you. Since you have time before adding this new dog, maybe volunteer for a breed rescue locally and get to see a few different animals to help flesh out what you want?

As far as the guard dog issue goes, I'm not looking for a bird dog that's going to take someone's arm off at the shoulder. I would just like to have a dog that will bark if someone tries to break in/keep on eye on my family when I'm working long hours. Like I said, a watchdog and this is at best a tertiary priority when selecting a dog breed.

Also, I shouldn't have lumped golden and labs in together. When I meant good hunting stock can be difficult to find I was mostly referring to the golden, but I could be incorrect about this as well.

I pitched the idea of a boykin to my wife who had never heard of one and showed her a picture. She responded, "why do you want a girl dog?"

I appreciate everybody's input.

A dog defining ones masculinity sounds pretty shallow....

In over 55 years of owning and training 100's of dogs, the absolutely toughest by a good margin was a 40 pound male Boykin. He never quit hunting or gave up on a retrieve no matter the conditions. One year he retrieved dove in a 90 degree high humidity day to later breaking ice for ducks, in between he hunted SD pheasant and Huns in record heat. He once stopped to whip a badger before completing a pheasant retrieve. All in a day's work.

Not sure being a girl dog is all that derogatory, as I have known a lot of tough women and my female Boykins are far from soft.

Personally I don't care what, if any dog, the OP gets; but I do wish he would stop with the unfounded negative stereotypes. He is without question the most opinionated seeker of advice I have ever encountered.

Boykins are tenacious little dogs for sure.

Dunno if Nurse Betty er Bobby can handle that kind of observation.

MG

I have the most common dog type on the planet a Black Lab. Still he is nicely behaved and good looking and gets comments constantly on how nice looking he is. I am of course biased. He gets VERY hot in the dove season and we have to really be careful. But he is a great all around dog, lives full time inside, calm unless I get the hunting or training gear out. He picked up over a hundred ducks this past season, plays Rally with me, and even got to star in some ads for a flooring company.


But I also highly recommend GSP's but YES only if you can keep them exercised and mentally busy. They are my primary breed so I certainly love them! Certain lines are more skilled at being calm most of the time until field work time. But the same is true in labs. I have seen some lines with some very high strung labs lately. Anyway GSP's are a forgiving breed not easily ruined by novice trainers. They handle the heat pretty well but sometimes they do not like the cold water that well. Some do not care though as their drive for ducks overpowers any weather.

birddog1968 wrote:A dog defining ones masculinity sounds pretty shallow....

You know, I was thinking the same thing. I have never heard or thought about a dog or breed in terms of masculinity. :roll:

Charlie

I don't define my masculinity according to a dog breed at all. In fact I like the little dogs and want to get one. I think they're tough little dogs from everything I read. I just thought it was funny when viewed in light of all the hub bub caused by that little comment. It's a joke people. I thought it was ironic. For goodness sake nobody is badmouthing your hunting buddy. Apparently some people identify very closely with their dogs.

Has anybody ever seen the Christopher Guest movie,Best in Show? I'm having flashbacks...

birddogger wrote:

birddog1968 wrote:A dog defining ones masculinity sounds pretty shallow....

You know, I was thinking the same thing. I have never heard or thought about a dog or breed in terms of masculinity. :roll:

Charlie

reallly? never? you've never assigned gender to a dog breed? I find that hard to believe. Poodles? yorkies? nothing huh? Well that would place you outside the main stream of american social norms.

I'm honored to be outside the "norms" these days.

Mainstream..... Is that cable TV's idea of normal lol

Let's try this:

If I were to say your repeated mentioning of femininity in dog breeds suggest you may have some gender ambiguity yourself, would you find that offensive or a joke?

Here is one of the few rules, never insult a man's dog - NEVER. Not even as a joke. I don't know how closly I indentify with my dogs, but when you spend 12 full hunting seasons watching them hunt in all kinds of weather they earn and deserve respect.

And having competed in few dog show, I thought "Best in Show" a documentary.

Diogenes wrote:

birddogger wrote:

birddog1968 wrote:A dog defining ones masculinity sounds pretty shallow....

You know, I was thinking the same thing. I have never heard or thought about a dog or breed in terms of masculinity. :roll:

Charlie

reallly? never? you've never assigned gender to a dog breed? I find that hard to believe. Poodles? yorkies? nothing huh? Well that would place you outside the main stream of american social norms.

So now you are comparing Boykins to poodles and Yorkies? And that is not insulting?

BTW There are some standard poodles that are fine hunting dogs.

It is not that you don't know, it is you think you do know that annoys me. Arrogance is a lot harder to correct than ignorance.

Alright. Whatever guys. To those of you who offered help-much appreciated.

To those of you who take yourselves (and dogs) a little to seriously- get a life.

It's been real, and it's been fun but it hasn't been real fun. You guys will have to make some other newbs feel unwelcome. I'm telling everybody I know this is the lamest forum on the web on any topic.

Diogenes wrote:Alright. Whatever guys. To those of you who offered help-much appreciated.

To those of you who take yourselves (and dogs) a little to seriously- get a life.

It's been real, and it's been fun but it hasn't been real fun. You guys will have to make some other newbs feel unwelcome. I'm telling everybody I know this is the lamest forum on the web on any topic.

The point you missed is we do have lives, after God and our families. It centers around dogs, and it is very serious.

It seems to me it would have been easier to just say you were sorry and gone on. I would have accepted your apology.

Oh well. I guess I'll have to find a way to go on without your approbation.


http://youtu.be/xVWpHTafYuA

Let's try this:

If I were to say your repeated mentioning of femininity in dog breeds suggest you may have some gender ambiguity yourself, would you find that offensive or a joke?

Here is one of the few rules, never insult a man's dog - NEVER. Not even as a joke. I don't know how closly I indentify with my dogs, but when you spend 12 full hunting seasons watching them hunt in all kinds of weather they earn and deserve respect.

Stick around, we just have a few older members who are getting rather crotchety and forget how to be socialable. The other members who have been here a while understand and just let it pass but they forget how it sounds to a new member wanting help. There are many people here that will help when you have a question without criticizing. Just ignore what you don't want to hear and take what you do to heart.

Ezzy

I am sorry, I am getting crotchety, really didn't want to run anyone off.

This forum has this feature where you can "hide" posts from certain users. Very handy little tool that has kept me from stressing over the opinions of some few who have never met me yet presume to believe that I can't possibly have any knowledge on any topic that does not 100% agree with their opinions. Don't get me worng I like a good debate, and I believe myself to be good at civil disagreement. The world is full of people and it takes all kinds to make world, but still I have things to do and reading insults is not high on the list. I have only had to hide a very few and my whole forum experience has improved.

Stay, and ignore the badgers. Just remember which breed people were nice to you and not so defensive HA!

Diogenes wrote:

birddogger wrote:

birddog1968 wrote:A dog defining ones masculinity sounds pretty shallow....

You know, I was thinking the same thing. I have never heard or thought about a dog or breed in terms of masculinity. :roll:

Charlie

reallly? never? you've never assigned gender to a dog breed? I find that hard to believe. Poodles? yorkies? nothing huh? Well that would place you outside the main stream of american social norms.

Aside from being mindful of not getting off on the wrong foot, you make a serious point here on social norms. Remember, you seem to be coming from a "norm" where, to you, people do view dogs in part as fashion statements. Certainly here in Vegas, I see plenty of huskies and other dogs where, given the summer climate, I don't get it. But, they are beautiful dogs and they and their owners seem to be happy at least some of the time. (And, the really unhappy stories you don't tend to see.) Are they the best choice for a family here with an active lifestyle, given the heat? No. Having seen dog fashion come and go, will the young huskies even be "in" here in the latter parts of their lives? Probably not. Do a number of their owners have problems controlling them? Yes.

One criterion you don't mention (unless I missed it) is what your vehicle is. A big leggy dog has different transportation requirements than a smaller one, just something to keep in mind.

On the watchdog front, since you again mention you want a dog to "keep an eye on" your family, maybe reflect a bit more on what watch dog means for you.

The funny thing is that I would really like to own a Boykin. We dove hunt in heat and float hunt rivers for ducks and I think they'd be about theb only dog that would work in a canoe. They seem like Cbrs in temperament and would probably fulfill my watchdog requirements. I don't think they're really feminine at all after learning more about them, hence my lol at the wife's comment.

Diogenes wrote:

birddogger wrote:

birddog1968 wrote:A dog defining ones masculinity sounds pretty shallow....

You know, I was thinking the same thing. I have never heard or thought about a dog or breed in terms of masculinity. :roll:

Charlie

reallly? never? you've never assigned gender to a dog breed? I find that hard to believe. Poodles? yorkies? nothing huh? Well that would place you outside the main stream of american social norms.

Wow, I was just stating a fact and maybe that does place me out of the main stream. But I did not say it to offend anybody. Maybe it was the confused face and rolling eyes that upset you but that is not what was intended.

Charlie

I don't consider your typical "punter" or "furturd" a dog, but cats that bark.

Mind you I could see a correlation between owning a pit bull and a small ...

aulrich wrote:I don't consider your typical "punter" or "furturd" a dog, but cats that bark.

Mind you I could see a correlation between owning a pit bull and a small ...

Also a spiked collar! Knew a person once that had a chain collar with pad locks on it for his pit bull! Very impressive!

Here's my take (I'm a fellow Marylander):

1 - Pudelpointer - Look at NAPA for breeders. Plenty in the SE. (FL, GA, AL). http://www.pudelpointer.org/Breeders.html My uncle runs Tideview Kennels. I know several guys who have PP's in the south that do just fine. Check NAVHDA records on the breeders for quality on any of the versatile breeds.

2 - DD's are great dogs, but some have been given a bad rap for aggression. Pick the right breeder and do your homework if you go that route. Heat may not be as much of an issue as you think with a DD in the south.

3 - GSP - I have two. Exercise is required, but we're active. I have a large fenced yard and have no issues. Can be rambunctious but settle in with kids. Coat will handle all types of weather but doesnt fare as well as other long haired dogs in extreme cold (below freezing). Look into NAVHDA breeders or DK breeders - Blood tracking is easy with the right kennel - stay away from show breeders.

4 - CBR - Can be hard headed, but will duck hunt in anything. Great up here in the north, but heat will be an issue with this coat.

5 - Labs/GR's - I'd stay away from goldens for your purposes, but labs are a good option. They'd stand up to the heat fairly well but blood tracking may be challenging with one.

6 - Boykins - didnt know about the HD issues... wow...

7 - Cocker - may not be the best in the water, but everything else you'd probably fare OK if you can find any "hunting" stock left...

Diogenes wrote:I'm looking for a dog that will retrieve doves for me in hot weather, retrieve ducks in water that seldom freezes, flush rabbits, blood track game, alert me to presence of strangers around the home, house train easily, and mind its manners around toddlers. You know...the perfect dog. =)

Here's the breeds I have in mind and the potential issues:

1. Pudelpointer: sounds like it would fit the bill, but I can't find a breeder in the southeast.

2. Deutsche Drahthaar: sounds like it would also fit the bill, there are a couple breeders within easy driving distance including in-state, but I keep hearing about aggressive dogs that aren't that great around kids. I really like the appearance of the dog and the history.

3. German short hair: sounds great, but I hear that they may have the highest exercise requirements of any breed. Breeders are fairly common, I like the coat for hot alabama weather, and I love the appearance of the dog.

4. Chesapeake Bay retriever: I encountered this dog living in Maryland. I'm a U of Maryland grad and I have a lot of connections to the state. I befriended a chessie that was a therapy dog in one of the hospitals I've worked in. I think they're gorgeous, more interesting and rare than other retriever breeds, but also hear they're hard to train and can be nippy with children. I'm also concerned that the coat may be too heavy for Alabama weather (100% humidity, and 100+ degree temps during dove season). In short, seems like a winter duck dog and I live in a mild climate with a small duck population.

5. Labrador/ Golden retrievers: fits the bill in a lot of ways and great as a family dog, super common to the point of being boring and difficult to find good hunting dog stock. Might get too hot in Alabama weather. Not such a great watch dog.

6. Boykin spaniels: sounds good, a little on the small/feminine side, 37% hip dysplasia prevalence in the breed? no thanks. As a bulldog owner I'm acquainted with lots of vet bills. I don't mind them, but I'd rather not have my own personal parking space at the specialty vet clinic. I think I bought my veterinary orthopedic surgeon a new boat, and the vet ophthalmologist sends me Christmas cards. Must be a relatively healthy breed.

7. english cocker spaniel: beautiful dogs but again not as masculine as I'd like. Seems a bit too small to retrieve ducks on big water like the Tennessee river. Might be a good dove dog.

j.digiacomo wrote:..........
3 - GSP - I have two. Exercise is required, but we're active. I have a large fenced yard and have no issues. Can be rambunctious but settle in with kids. Coat will handle all types of weather but doesnt fare as well as other long haired dogs in extreme cold (below freezing). Look into NAVHDA breeders or DK breeders - Blood tracking is easy with the right kennel - stay away from show breeders.

I am NOT opening up a debate here and if someone chooses to make it one I will not participate, but many NAVHDA dogs also are show dogs and they do very very well at both. I have a heavily DK bred dog that is also the son of a SHOW champion, and he can track and retrieve like no other. Absolutely no quit in this dog and is perhaps the hardest driving GSP I have worked with so far. Yet he is also extremely friendly with dogs and people of all ages. Do not avoid show just for the sake of it. Avoid breeders that do not participate in other venues also and prove their dogs can do what you want.

This dog is a show champion, and NAVHDA VC, and an avid duck hunting partner:
http://www.crystalkennels.com/josh
This dog is also a show champion, NAVHDA VC, and a Field CH:
http://www.walnuthillgsps.us/stud_dogs/SAM.html
I had to delete the links to VC BIS M-BISS
GCh Honey Run's Spittin' Image CD MH RDX VCA CGC and some others because I am only allowed 2 links per post...

... point is look at the WHOLE dog.

agreed... show ONLY is what i meant. if there are dual titles, that's another story.

i was at the Invitational and saw Sam & Brenda last year. Nice dog, nice lady.

j.digiacomo wrote:Here's my take (I'm a fellow Marylander):


7 - Cocker - may not be the best in the water, but everything else you'd probably fare OK if you can find any "hunting" stock left...

Sorry but this is an uninformed comment. The hunting and trial stock are both alive and well in the english cocker.

CDN_Cocker wrote:

j.digiacomo wrote:Here's my take (I'm a fellow Marylander):


7 - Cocker - may not be the best in the water, but everything else you'd probably fare OK if you can find any "hunting" stock left...

Sorry but this is an uninformed comment. The hunting and trial stock are both alive and well in the english cocker.

I'll just add some clarity, Cass, That would be (Field Bred English Cocker) provide the hunting and trial stock.
In the confirmation world the (English Cocker) only a few have ventured into the hunt test venue and gained title and I only know of one that is owned by a real bird hunter, here in the Mid-west

Here Show Champion JH Mya and owner Ben have a little work-out...2 camera angled video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRnXzPqplIQ

1--Pudelpointer
2--American German Wirehair, we have bred the German --Sharpness--DD,(agressiveness out)
3--German Wirehair
4--GWP
5-6-7 GWP