update on breeding plus a question

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:48 am

Ok so if anyone remembers my previous posts, I have been waiting on a Brittany pup. Well the breeder has two females. The first went into heat in Jan and the female needed to be brought to Minnesota to be bred but that did not happen due to the obvious bad weather we have had in the North. So the other female went into heat and they brought her to be bred in march 16th. So I get an email stating that they should know more on April 13th when he "feels her". So he stated that she was not eating as much as she usually does but her appetite has recently went way up even though he couldn't feel anything. I looked up some symptoms and this seems pretty normal. Does this seem normal to you guys that after 4 weeks and cannot feel any pups. He did offer to refund my money if she is not pregnant and that his other female should go into heat in July but that will put the dog home in Nov and will severely limit training time for a new pup outside. I do like the breeder and hes been pretty communicative. I didn't really like the other breeders around me that I have even considered. Not for the dogs but for their attitudes and lack of communication or ability to explain anything to me. Would you wait for the next breeding or start looking elsewhere? On the plus side he still states he is optimistic. I am thinking maybe its a smaller litter? Maybe since its a britt the pups are harder to feel since they are smaller?

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:54 am

As for your last questions, if you like the breeder and have a good rapport with him, I would stick with him.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:13 am

I have not have a lot of luck with palpating and the eating thing sounds like what they normally do when the are pregnant, although some females have false pregnancies and have the same signs but no puppies. But by now or very soon he should know for sure.
I guess I would stay with the breeder you like. It is a tough game predicting a litter six months ahead of time.................Cj

Birddog 307 · Post by **Birddog 307** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:20 am

It is pretty normal not to feel pups at 4 weeks but by your dates pups should be approx. 6 weeks along now and the breeder should be able to detect pups. That is if conception occurred on first breeding attempt. The breeder did the right thing by offering you your money back . If you are sold on the breeders bloodlines of his dogs I would wait for a dog of his breeding. If you did not want to wait there are a lot of good Brittany pups around if you are willing to have a pup flown to you.
Birddog 307

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:49 am

When I spoke with the breeder he said 'just because I can't feel anything, it doesn't mean anything, I have always had a hard time feeling the puppies with her.' He also stated he felt optimistic about it, also that maybe the puppies are just a little high up, whatever that means. Shall see since projected whelping date is May 18th and I am sure I will post soon as they are born. She did breed twice he said so shall see.

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Wed May 14, 2014 10:34 am

Spoke to the breeder yesterday. Stated that he cant tell yet and that she is due May 18th but can go as late at May 21. He told me even if she has any there may only be a few so I would assume by "few" max is three pups. Another dilemma is that he is still reserving the right to keep one female. I have been waiting about 6-7 months on a pup from this breeder since I liked him, his dogs, and his behavior in communicating. Now the issue I have is, he has another female coming into season in June which would put the pups home in late Sept. This is an issue since I am an avid bowhunter and I spend A LOT of time in a treestand. So if I agree to wait until the next breeding I will have to throw out my bow season, there is no denying that. I called around to other breeders and no one even has a litter due to be ready to come home before Sept. All dogs here are spoken for. The first scheduled breeding was cancelled due to snow in Jan., this breeding may not have taken, the third would occur in June (the breeder has 2 females). So what would you do? A) Would you stick with the breeder for yet another time? (3rd times a charm?), B) go to another breeder?, C) keep your deposit on the current breeding and put another deposit on another breeding as a safe measure and then sacrifice one of them? I do have first selection on the current. Also, he stated that shes only bred twice in her life and the first litter was 2 pups and second was 7, the litter with 2 he was unable to tell she had pups that time either. The only vet he will use does not have an ultrasound or x ray machine to tell for sure if shes pregnant.

Gordon Guy · Post by **Gordon Guy** » Wed May 14, 2014 10:46 am

Go with "C"

I've also had bad luck when expecting puppies. When you know what you want and are willing to wait for it the situation you are in is not uncommon.

As breeder of Gordons ...it's all a crap shoot because there are soooo mannnny variables.

rinker · Post by **rinker** » Wed May 14, 2014 1:25 pm

I would wait one week and see what happens with this litter of puppies. If the dog does not have puppies or not the sex that you want, then I would start looking for another litter of puppies. If you don't find anything suitable withing a period of time, then come back to this breeder as his second litter should be on the way, or here.

drw10 · Post by **drw10** » Wed May 14, 2014 1:42 pm

one question is the PUP worth waiting for? If yes wait
I have been waiting for a pup from a breeder and his female hasn't came into heat yet and is way past due. I like the breeding and like the Breeder so I'm waiting
it's all up to you but if the pup is worth waiting for why ask anybody you know the answer

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Wed May 14, 2014 7:36 pm

On a side note, I wouldn't use a breeder who doesn't do Progesterone tests and has no access to ultrasound. Other breedings could be missed while your in the dark "hoping" that the bitch is pregnant and how many are coming.

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Mon May 19, 2014 5:43 am

thank you all for your input. I went to visit the breeder yesterday and talk in person rather than e-mails back and forth. So to me she looks pregnant with hanging nipples, kind of pudgy, and very pink/red bottom, then again he says she always semi like that and shes kind of tricky. I do not know, I do not breed dogs so maybe there are just residual signs from past breedings. I have decided to stick with him for the next breeding which should happen towards the end of next month and would put the pup home in sept-ish. I did like one other breeder so I may put a deposit down on their next breeding as a safe measure, they will let me know when they accepting deposits.

Del Lolo · Post by **Del Lolo** » Mon May 19, 2014 9:01 am

Let me get this straight. Gotta make sure that I'm not confused about this.
You own the Male dog....... The Breeder owns the Female(s) and yet YOU are paying the bitch owner

Is this how things work in the Brit world

It's always been my experience that the Stud dog owner is the one that gets paid -- either first choice from the litter or in $ equivalent to the selling price of one pup.

.

Del Lolo · Post by **Del Lolo** » Mon May 19, 2014 9:05 am

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:On a side note, I wouldn't use a breeder who doesn't do Progesterone tests and has no access to ultrasound. Other breedings could be missed while your in the dark "hoping" that the bitch is pregnant and how many are coming.

No : Progesterone --- Ultrasound --- Xray.
Sounds kinda sleezy to me.

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Mon May 19, 2014 9:10 am

No, I do not own any dog. The breeder I am going to is the owner of the bitch. This would be my first hunting dog.

The vet he uses is just going into private practice so she is getting set up and does not have an open office yet and the machines moved. I can appreciate someone that will only trust one vet. There are things I only trust to one shop or individual so I can understand. Plus I guess the vet is 90 mins away and it being so close to the projected birth date, maybe he would rather not waste the time driving the dog out there. I believe him to have integrity so only time will tell. Thank you for the input. This is the first go around so if anything the next breeding I will be more informed on the available tests that could be done.

Del Lolo · Post by **Del Lolo** » Mon May 19, 2014 9:13 am

shocker35 wrote:No, I do not own any dog. The breeder I am going to is the owner of the bitch.

OK -- I was confused

Ms. Cage · Post by **Ms. Cage** » Mon May 19, 2014 9:21 am

Del Lolo wrote:Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:On a side note, I wouldn't use a breeder who doesn't do Progesterone tests and has no access to ultrasound. Other breedings could be missed while your in the dark "hoping" that the bitch is pregnant and how many are coming.[/quote
quote="Del Lolo"]No : Progesterone --- Ultrasound --- Xray.Sounds kinda sleezy to me

If the vet doesn't do a in house pegesterone test , it's a waste . The boys will take care of things.. X rays don't always show you the right number of pups. We don't do a pegesterone test or X rays on our dog .

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon May 19, 2014 9:59 am

We have never done any of those kind of tests on our dogs or for our kids. Never saw the point.

Ezzy

Gordon Guy · Post by **Gordon Guy** » Mon May 19, 2014 11:39 am

Ezzy, I don't use those things either. I must be a "sleezy" Breeder.

Del Lolo, What makes breeders "Sleezy" because we don't use those tools? In my experience X-rays an ultra sounds are not definitive enough to be worth the money. And I don't know much about pregesterone tests enough to even comment. All I know is that Puppies seem to be produced without it.

Cobbhunts · Post by **Cobbhunts** » Mon May 19, 2014 11:41 am

Shocker.....any updates?

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Mon May 19, 2014 11:45 am

nothing yet. I should know more by Wed. See to me I thought the red bottom plus looking a little chubby could be a good indicator. If not I will be waiting until Sept.

Cobbhunts · Post by **Cobbhunts** » Mon May 19, 2014 12:31 pm

Good luck, I'm thinking you'll be a father come the end of the week haha.....

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Mon May 19, 2014 12:36 pm

Progesterone tests are only good for timing the breeding, Usually with a AI or when the female can't spend a lot of time at the stud dogs kennel for what ever reason. Our stud dogs are pretty good at working out the timing and do not pay a lot of attention until the bitch is ready. Ultra sounds only confirm the pregnancy and by the time they are of any value you can usually tell by the change in the female's attitude and shape. The no. of puppies is a guess with a ultrasound.
Sometimes in the case of false pregnancies the female shows the same signs. Nothing sleazy about not wasting money on Progesterone testing, Ultrasound and x-rays..........................Cj

SCT · Post by **SCT** » Mon May 19, 2014 6:51 pm

That's the main reason I am getting an ultrasound on my female Kate in two weeks. She has false pregnancies and because some pups are "sold", I need to know if she's pregnant. Otherwise, let it go a couple more weeks and the signs should be evident. Except with small litters.

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Fri May 23, 2014 8:27 am

no such luck with her being pregnant. So now unfortunately I have to wait until about the end of Sept for a pup to come home. I have decided to stick with the same breeder since all other litters are spoken for or the others will not be ready to come home until the same time frame. Giving up a lot of one bow season won't be so bad, I am only 30 so plenty of other seasons right? Be worth it in the end. This breeding will be between Ghost(female) and either the dog on the breeders website or a different dog that the breeder is debating between.

In case anyone is curious as to the breeders site here it is: http://www.cast-a-britt.com/
I am convinced Herb is a great guy with the best intentions so I am going to give him another shot.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Tue May 27, 2014 10:15 am

cjhills wrote:Progesterone tests are only good for timing the breeding, Usually with a AI or when the female can't spend a lot of time at the stud dogs kennel for what ever reason. Our stud dogs are pretty good at working out the timing and do not pay a lot of attention until the bitch is ready. Ultra sounds only confirm the pregnancy and by the time they are of any value you can usually tell by the change in the female's attitude and shape. The no. of puppies is a guess with a ultrasound.
Sometimes in the case of false pregnancies the female shows the same signs. Nothing sleazy about not wasting money on Progesterone testing, Ultrasound and x-rays..........................Cj

Well said, I agree with this. Vaginal swabs are helpful to determine "if" she is pregnant and much cheaper than Progesterone tests.

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Tue May 27, 2014 11:47 am

My vet did a blood test at around 23 days post-breeding (it is time sensitive) to confirm pregnancy. It wasn't expensive. $50 I think, and worth the peace of mind to know we had puppies coming

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Tue May 27, 2014 12:29 pm

That may be an option, Karen. Would it be out of line for me to offer to pay for such testing? I do not want to step on any toes and imply a "don't worry I will take care of it" kind of thing. I know the "responsible" breeders will say that the breeder should absorb this cost but this breeder has reasonable costs and is not charging a ton for a dog. For example I am only paying $650, everywhere else I see is $800+

Carolina Gundogs · Post by **Carolina Gundogs** » Tue May 27, 2014 12:58 pm

The small amount difference in the pup cost is nothing compared to getting the right pup. The difference in the prices you mention is not even a one month's training fee difference. Pups that are from proven dogs, (dogs that have shown to excel in a particular venue and/or produced exceptional pups in past litters), will often be priced higher as it is believed this will help stack your odds at getting a good one. I suppose it also depends on what you want hope the pup to grow up to be.

shocker35 wrote:That may be an option, Karen. Would it be out of line for me to offer to pay for such testing? I do not want to step on any toes and imply a "don't worry I will take care of it" kind of thing. I know the "responsible" breeders will say that the breeder should absorb this cost but this breeder has reasonable costs and is not charging a ton for a dog. For example I am only paying $650, everywhere else I see is $800+

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Tue May 27, 2014 1:04 pm

I am guessing the pups will be of pretty good quality considering the sire that is being considered is a DC.

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:01 am

Well small update: The female is now at the males kennel in Ohio. They successfully bred last thurs and she will stay there until she is no longer receptive. So if all goes as planned I am looking at a pup coming home right around 10/17/14.

Cobbhunts · Post by **Cobbhunts** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:29 am

Awesome!!!!

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:57 am

Do you live somewhere warm? Housebreaking in the winter sucks

Ask me how I know....

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:34 am

It's warm now. Ha it will be decent for about 4-5 weeks until winter sets in, I live in MI

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:18 am

Well I got word a couple weeks ago that the female is showing so she is definitely pregnant this time around. Projected whelping: 8/28/14 and home 10/17/14

Cobbhunts · Post by **Cobbhunts** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:10 am

shocker35 wrote:Well I got word a couple weeks ago that the female is showing so she is definitely pregnant this time around. Projected whelping: 8/28/14 and home 10/17/14

Awesome, congrats!!

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:51 pm

Karen wrote:Do you live somewhere warm? Housebreaking in the winter sucks Ask me how I know....

I'm the opposite Karen, I love a winter pup. However, I do take the pup to work with me in his crate (because it's not too hot) which makes it way easier than driving back and forth home to let pup out. However, if we had a ton of snow, I might not care for the home house training portion.

Crate training becomes a week long process when you can take the pup with you in the crate everywhere. Every winter pup I've had has been crate trained in a week or less. And I get the bonus of playing with the little squirt during breaks and at parks for lunch!

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:05 pm

You're fortunate you can do that. In Ontario folks have gone overboard crazy on dog safety. If I left my dog in the van while I worked , no matter what the weather, someone would be calling animal control on me.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:46 pm

If the dog has access to water and is climate controlled (you wouldn't do this if it was crazy freezing or too hot) then why would that be a problem? Also, how would anyone know the dog was in there - it's not like you'd leave him visible (I covered my crate). I also worked at a conservation organization during the last 3 puppies when I would do this. A dog being walked on the grassy areas wasn't a novelty there.

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:06 am

I can remember standing on the deck at 2 a.m. in December and having my slippers freeze to the deck or the river rock around the deck while I tried to get two 10 week old pups to pee (we live in Northeast PA). Nearly broke my fool neck a couple times with river rock frozen to my slippers then stepping on an icy deck. Just ugh!

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:18 am

I live in MI and I work 45 mins from home. Luckily enough I have a retired neighbor I trust to possibly help me out. Plus my gf only works 10 mins from my house. I want to put in a dog door from the garage out into a kennel. One of those home projects that are on the list. Hopefully the weather holds out a little longer than usual so she can be trained a little.

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:34 am

Well I got word last night that Ghost had her pups at 3am on 8/27/14. The litter was six pups with five males and one female. The breeder reserved the right to keep a female but he felt it was not necessary to act on that right since I have been waiting. He did verify I wanted a female and that he was in the process of calling a few other people that wanted a female. He mentioned he did want a female from this breeding. Waiting on pictures of the litter, so I will post those up when he sends them. In about 6-7 weeks he said I can come pick her up.

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:37 am

Welcome Specter, just after dew claw removal and tail docking.

Carolina Gundogs · Post by **Carolina Gundogs** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:57 pm

It won't be long now until the fun begins!

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:27 am

So one week from today I get to go pick her up. Her name is going to be Specter. I found it appropriate with her moms name being Ghost. My co-workers have been telling me I am picking her up too early. I will be picking her up at 6 weeks and 3 days old. Should I tell the breeder I want to wait longer? I asked about the date and he said that would be fine. I want to pick her up on a fri and stay with her home for about 10 days. Not sure how to go about it. Opinions anyone?

whatsnext · Post by **whatsnext** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:55 pm

I agree 6 week's is too early, I would wait till 9.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:43 am

shocker35 wrote:So one week from today I get to go pick her up. Her name is going to be Specter. I found it appropriate with her moms name being Ghost. My co-workers have been telling me I am picking her up too early. I will be picking her up at 6 weeks and 3 days old. Should I tell the breeder I want to wait longer? I asked about the date and he said that would be fine. I want to pick her up on a fri and stay with her home for about 10 days. Not sure how to go about it. Opinions anyone?

At least 9 weeks old - no sooner. 10 weeks is what I prefer - if the dog is in a good situation.

shocker35 · Post by **shocker35** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:32 pm

I spoke to a vet today and he said it would be fine but to wait one more week so that puts her at 7.5 weeks. He said he doesn't advise past 8 weeks since they begin to develop bad habits.

Thank you everyone for your advice.

jfwhit · Post by **jfwhit** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:51 pm

I'm no expert, but when I did my obsessive research for my Brittany pup, the magic window was 8 to 12 weeks. 8 weeks being the earliest and 12 weeks pushing it for potential social issues.

That being said, if you trust your vet, listen to him.

SCT · Post by **SCT** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:10 am

7.5 will be fine, but I prefer 8-10 weeks for further sibling socialization. They (pointers) can be pretty rough on each other if they are kept together after 10 weeks and i will separate them if not placed by then.