What GSP would you breed to?

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Chm120379
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What GSP would you breed to?

Post by Chm120379 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:46 pm

I am looking for opinions on what GSP stud dog would you breed to. I have a female I want to Breed, she is out of 3x nstra ch Ponderosa fancy hank and 3x nstra ch crawfords Speckled Hannah. I am looking for a stud that has produced champions and would go great with her. I'm just new to the game and would love your opinions
Thanks

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Hattrick
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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by Hattrick » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:26 pm

I would look at pedigrees that match up well with a emphis on strong line breeding. Vary few males can reproduce themself I think you hedge the bet with line breeding. I also would limit your self to just Nstra dogs

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Doc E
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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by Doc E » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:50 pm

Get ahold of Dunfur Kennels.

.

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Hattrick
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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by Hattrick » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:34 am

I meant to say not limit yourself to just Nstra dogs

codym
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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by codym » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:13 am

Depends on what I was looking for. If I wanted an all age horseback dog I wouldn't be looking at NSTRA stuff or vice versa, what are you looking for in an end product. Foot hunting dogs? Big running HB dogs? NSTRA? hunt test dogs?

USMC
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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by USMC » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:09 pm

Anything with many VC in their bloodline.... :lol:

Sharp Shooters
Shooting Starr's

Ms. Cage
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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by Ms. Cage » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:43 pm

I thought Shooting Starr was a washed up ,years past bloodline. :wink:

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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by Brooks Carmichael » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:10 pm

First of all I would look at the FT Champions out there. I would not worry about the AA dogs hunted on horseback. I know of many dogs who are AA dogs when you get on horse but when you are on foot and out hunting they are a different dog and hunt close and fast. They are true joy to hunt behind. I am not promoting my dog but I field trial him off horse back but he is different dog when I hunt him on foot. When I bring out the shotgun and he changes to nice foot hunting dog. I hunt prairie chickens, pheasant and quail over him during the hunting season here in the Midwest. Most people cannot believe it is same dog they saw in a FT. I can tell you for the most part the best bird dogs make some of the best field trial dogs. I could go and on. But, do your research call people about their dogs then call references. Then decide what is best for you.

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GunDogAdventures
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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by GunDogAdventures » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:44 pm

I would certainly consider Jeremy Pence's "Premier's Outstanding Otis SH." He has General Norman and Meir's Impressive Son on top and a General Norman X 4X NSTRA CH Double K's Mistress on bottom. Looks like a good fit for your girl. http://pencekennels.netkennels.com

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Hattrick
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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by Hattrick » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:07 am

Brooks that's why they are called versital gundogs. They adopt to the situation

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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by ACooper » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:01 am

GunDogAdventures wrote:I would certainly consider Jeremy Pence's "Premier's Outstanding Otis SH." He has General Norman and Meir's Impressive Son on top and a General Norman X 4X NSTRA CH Double K's Mistress on bottom. Looks like a good fit for your girl. http://pencekennels.netkennels.com
Did he buy Otis from Adam? Or at least I thought Adam owned Otis?

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GunDogAdventures
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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by GunDogAdventures » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:29 am

Not sure of the ownership, just that within the last 2 weeks, Jeremy indicated that Otis was "standing at his house." Pence has some nice dogs....he also admitted that he needs to update his web site to show dogs, pedigrees, etc. Easiest way to find out would be to call him ( # on web site).

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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by JKP » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:35 am

I know of many dogs who are AA dogs when you get on horse but when you are on foot and out hunting they are a different dog and hunt close and fast.
What % of trial bred and AA bred dogs will exhibit this behavior? and would you quantify what you call "hunt close"?? is that 100 yds, 200 yds, 400 yds? Might help the OP to better understand your point.

I too have seen very hard going FT bred dogs shorten up on foot. I have seen just as many with a strong desire to revert to their "default mode" and want to continually push farther out. I think its an individual dog thing, how often a dog is
hunted on foot and the individual dog's desire to maintain contact with the handler.

Who are the buyers for these puppies? What are their expectations? I think that should dictate your considerations as much anything else. Powerful hard driving dogs can be a challenge for most inexperienced handlers. I'm not saying that these dogs are uncooperative but more than a "learner's permit" is often needed.

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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by codym » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:57 am

JKP wrote:
I know of many dogs who are AA dogs when you get on horse but when you are on foot and out hunting they are a different dog and hunt close and fast.
What % of trial bred and AA bred dogs will exhibit this behavior? and would you quantify what you call "hunt close"?? is that 100 yds, 200 yds, 400 yds? Might help the OP to better understand your point.

I too have seen very hard going FT bred dogs shorten up on foot. I have seen just as many with a strong desire to revert to their "default mode" and want to continually push farther out. I think its an individual dog thing, how often a dog is
hunted on foot and the individual dog's desire to maintain contact with the handler.

Who are the buyers for these puppies? What are their expectations? I think that should dictate your considerations as much anything else. Powerful hard driving dogs can be a challenge for most inexperienced handlers. I'm not saying that these dogs are uncooperative but more than a "learner's permit" is often needed.
Exactly!

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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by Ms. Cage » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:33 pm

codym wrote:Who are the buyers for these puppies? What are their expectations? I think that should dictate your considerations as much anything else.
I never breed for what a buyer wants. I breed for what I want and hopefully buyers get on board. I dictate my breeding program , not future buyers.

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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:38 pm

Same here Ms.Cage I breed for me & evidently only me but produces what I'm looking for & gets that job done!! :wink:

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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by cjhills » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:25 pm

If the Op is new to the game how does he know what he wants..........................cj

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jwyoung97838
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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by jwyoung97838 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:48 pm

Chm120379 wrote:I am looking for opinions on what GSP stud dog would you breed to. I have a female I want to Breed, she is out of 3x nstra ch Ponderosa fancy hank and 3x nstra ch crawfords Speckled Hannah. I am looking for a stud that has produced champions and would go great with her. I'm just new to the game and would love your opinions
Thanks
I would second Don E's reply with regards to Dunfur Kennels. It would be worth at least a conversation with Dan Hoke there. With what your looking for either Dunfur's Joe Obvious or Where You Ben may be a good choice. I've always had it in my head I would like a dog out of Where You Ben. He hasn't updated his website in quite a while but his dogs and knowledge I think do a lot of the talking. Just my $.02

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Carolina Gundogs
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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by Carolina Gundogs » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:25 am

cjhills wrote:If the Op is new to the game how does he know what he wants..........................cj
I believe he may have some idea of what he is searching for as he was specific to say he was searching for a stud that has produced champions.

JKP
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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by JKP » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:39 am

I believe he may have some idea of what he is searching for as he was specific to say he was searching for a stud that has produced champions.
There are champions....and there are champions....the title doesn't tell you all you need to know. Hopefully the OP will dig deeper.

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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by cjhills » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:18 am

Carolina Gundogs wrote:
cjhills wrote:If the Op is new to the game how does he know what he wants..........................cj
I believe he may have some idea of what he is searching for as he was specific to say he was searching for a stud that has produced champions.
Show champions, field champions, NSTRA Champions. Is his female a champion and if so of what. My taste in dogs has changed dramatically since I hunted over my first pointing dog.
I would find a male I liked with some of the same dogs and do a fairly close linebreeding. Pretty much will guarantee a bird dog. Look for excellent conformation and Watch out for any genetic issues both might have. Some you can see some you can't. If you strive for excellence you should get pretty good......................Cj

codym
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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by codym » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:09 am

[

I never breed for what a buyer wants. I breed for what I want and hopefully buyers get on board. I dictate my breeding program , not future buyers.[/quote]


The question I asked spoke directly to what the OP was looking for. I have seen guys with HB FT bred dogs try and do NSTRA and they ended up frustrated and a dog ended up looking for a home, the dog was great just not what the owner was looking for. I've seen dogs that just won't run big enough for guys out west and the owner ended up frustrated and the dog ended up looking for a home. There is no doubt there’s dogs that can run big off a horse and shorten up on foot and those a great dogs but I can't understand the logic in expecting that to be the norm. I've had dogs that were boot lickers that never got more than 100 yards away and that’s not what I like, sold him to a pheasant hunter and he absolutely adored the dog as he was just perfect for what the gentleman wanted to do.

I don’t entertain any illusion that if you breed to an AA dog you’re only going to get AA dogs or if you breed to walking trial dogs all you get is walking trial dogs. But in my opinion if I'm looking for a shooting dog I’m going to look for a stud that is at least a shooting dog himself and who has a history of producing shooting dogs, same for anything else. If I wanted a dog for mostly wild Phez I would look for the best "bleep" pheasant dog I could find see what his pups look like and go from there. As for buyers, I feel that if you breed a litter and unless you keep every puppy you have an obligation to try and place them in the most suitable homes possible. I keep referring to my experiences, but I have seen new people that bought a dog out of FT breeding and ended up with way to much dog for what they wanted and were able to handle, by the same token the new guys shows up wanting to do field trials with a pup from parents that "could have been ft. dogs" but never were trialed for whatever reason and when the dog doesn't have what it takes they end up frustrated.

My point is there are a few dogs that can do it all, but those dogs are freaks. We always hear the stories of the ones that can and rarely hear the stories of the ones that can’t, but I’m convinced there’s more of the latter than the former. Stack the odds in your favor and be very specific in the traits you want in a puppy and find a stud that has them, then sell the rest to people that are looking for similar qualities.

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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by P&PGunsmith » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:07 am

Very few breedings of AA dogs produce pups that will run in AA events. Hence the reason breeders are often selling trained dogs later because they cannot get that true AA dog. However most of the pups will have drive to find birds. That is not to say that breedings other than AA or field trial breedings wont offer dogs with drive, just a better chance to get one that does have drive. I would rather try to get a dog with lots of drive and work on control than try to get a dog that will not get out and hunt hard with lots of drive. Drive does not necessarily mean the dog hunts at 500 yards, just that he hunts hard all the time to find birds. To me frustration would be trying to get my dog out to hunt. Would be nice if the OP would clarify a few things like what area is was in, as well as what he is truly looking for. Example if he was to get anything out of crosswind truckin Fritz if he lived in the upper Midwest might have both drive and the NSTRA background he is looking for.

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Re: What GSP would you breed to?

Post by USMC » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:28 pm

Ms. Cage wrote:I thought Shooting Starr was a washed up ,years past bloodline. :wink:

They are still producing excellent dogs.

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