Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post Reply
User avatar
drich2244
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 2:29 pm
Location: Montana

Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by drich2244 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:22 pm

Ive got a litter of EP puppies and they are great little pups i have my one female i am keeping but i have 2 males i like as well they both are great for different reasons one is bold stout and looks to be a well built powerful hunter the other is slightly smaller but still well built hes a little more reserved but always looks to please and loves pointing wings.

im wondering what draw backs if any could be associated with keeping pups from the same litter. also has anybody ever kept 2 or 3 out of a litter and how was your experience?

User avatar
RoostersMom
GDF Junkie
Posts: 1754
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:42 pm
Location: North Central Missouri

Re: Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by RoostersMom » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:32 pm

I have had bad experiences with pups from the same litter. Google littermate syndrome and heed the advice given there if you do end up keeping two of the pups. I think it matters less if you keep them kenneled and they are not "family dogs" as well as hunting dogs. The advice to keep the separate, train them separate and not let them interact with the other pups much is still good advice if you want the pups to bond to you and not to another dog instead.

My opinions are based on 3 sets of foster dogs (2 sets of littermates and another unrelated, but same age set of pups) and my own struggles with a pair of pups I kept myself. English Pointers were the fosters and beagles were my own pups. I found the advice given on how to counteract littermate syndrome to be good. The theory that two pups are almost as easy as one pup is totally false - and if you expect the pups to keep each other company so you don't have to socialize them, then that will get you into big trouble. The basic advice to counteract littermate syndrome is to raise the pups totally separate from each other (except for up to one hour per day). If it's a family dog, that's a lot of trouble to go to.

User avatar
drich2244
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 2:29 pm
Location: Montana

Re: Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by drich2244 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:00 pm

thats good advice i wouldnt call them family dogs, example being in the house dealing with lots of handlers/people although i like my dogs well socialized as i guide lots of hunters every year and i train my dogs to be respectful of all dogs we come in contact with. My intention is not for them to be keeping each other company, my reason for wanting to keep them for hunting purposes i see characteristics in them that i like and i believe they will become great hunters i have 3 finished dogs and 1 started dog these pups will take over when my older dogs retire. as far as keeping them seperated im curious how to define seperated like never see or smell one another i dont see that happening as i have all my kennels in a row and they would be able to see one another all day. thanks for the advice i appreciate it

RayGubernat
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3307
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:47 am
Location: Central DE

Re: Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by RayGubernat » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:36 pm

I kept four pups from a litter I had some time ago. I could not decide which to keep for the long haul and so I kept all four and worked all four. At about ten months of age, I settled on two and sold the other two as started dogs, which is what they were.

It worked out fine for me, but it was a good bit of work. Each pup was kenneled separately and worked individually, both in the yard and in the field. They got plenty of socialization when they were little and were allowed the run of the back yard, together with the adult dogs. Each was played with and handled by me on a regular basis.

I do not think I would keep more than two pups at a time any more, only because it is time consuming to do one pup right and twice as much to do two right. There are no advantages or shortcuts because of multiples. If anything, dealing with two puppies takes more than twice the time, because...well...they are puppies and puppies do stuff and are into stuff...all the time.

RayG

User avatar
drich2244
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 2:29 pm
Location: Montana

Re: Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by drich2244 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:49 pm

thanks ray i love working with my dogs and pups i cant hardly call it working nothing better than watching your pup turn into a great hunter and a great dog i dont mind the extra work i spoke with a friend that lives in the south and hunts pigs is you cant tell what a pup will become until they get a bit older he spoke of his friends and himself keeping the litter til they were a year old and then selling the pups as started dogs

User avatar
Fun dog
Rank: Master Hunter
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 am
Location: Alaska

Re: Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by Fun dog » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:40 pm

I've raised lots of litters over the years and usually kept more than one. I never even heard about littermate syndrome until on this forum. While most were not house dogs, many were and no troubles. Maybe certain breeds are more prone to such a thing. My biggest concern would be the time to raise each properly. It may seem fun when they're little tykes, but as they grow so will the work.

User avatar
mm
Rank: Champion
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:12 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by mm » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:48 am

This past year we had a litter of just two so I kept them both. I kept them together until about 8 weeks and then put them in kennel runs next to each other. The pups were very attached to each other I kept them a year and started to run them at about 12 weeks. I always ran them alone or with an older dog but mostly alone. They would put up a huge fuss when one went out and the other stayed in. My male made so much noise while I was yard training his sister one time the lady down the street came to the house she thought something happened to the dog. If the two were out together they would both ignore me but separate they did as well as any other pup. By the end of the year they started to respond to me even when both out. I put a lot of time in with each separately out in the field and I think that is where they really learn that you are the man.

After a year I sent them away to a trainer and they are both doing well and he says they don't care when one is out and the other is in the truck anymore. He says they are both doing well. I would say it was ok and no real problems that simple one on one attention cant solve. If you have the time do it. I think problems arise when two are left alone and no attention is paid by the owner.
mm

polmaise
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2689
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by polmaise » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:51 am

drich2244 wrote:
im wondering what draw backs if any could be associated with keeping pups from the same litter. also has anybody ever kept 2 or 3 out of a litter and how was your experience?
There are few drawbacks if you have the facility/experience/and time.
There are a miriad of drawbacks if you do not have any one of these.I have 4 pups right now at 12 weeks old which are from the same litter and another brought in at the same age. The Mother of the pups and her sister are still here too :wink:
S1560003.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Carolina Gundogs
Rank: 2X Champion
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:40 am
Location: South Carolina

Re: Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by Carolina Gundogs » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:57 am

I had two pups from the same litter. I separated them on opposite sides of my kennel runs. I started the pups together on recall Johnny House quail and the pups were able to get a lot of exposure together. I then started hunting them alone and shooting birds for each of them.

Although they did have a very tight bond with each other, I didn't have any major problems. They were typical pups and would ignore me when called if they were running around in the yard playing. However, once they were old enough to introduce to the ecollar, that was easily taken care of so they listened to my call. I ended up selling the male as a started dog at 1 year of age (he was ready to start to work with on steadying beyond the flush or leave as is for a meat dog) and keeping the female.

It could have just been my mind playing tricks on me as I was always concerned with the pups being too dependent on each other, but I thought the female I kept may have bonded even closer to me after the male was gone. Although both pups loved people and were very social, this female now acts as though I am her whole world and thrives on spending time with me.

User avatar
SCT
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 858
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:43 pm
Location: Utah

Re: Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by SCT » Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:34 am

I think it may depend on the breed and even on the genetics within the breed. I had two brothers that I kept together, but were very independent in the field. I let them run together until they got old enough that they ran too big and I couldn't keep my eye on both.

Personally I think it's a great way to decide which one, if either, you want to keep and by the time they are about a year old you'll know what you need to know to make that decision. As far as them getting upset when the other is being run, in my case it had little to do with sibling bonding, it was more jealousy that ALL my dogs feel when left back or in the truck while the other dog gets to run. Never though of that as a sibling issue.

I say go for it if you have the time to get them in the field a lot.

Steve

rinker
Rank: 4X Champion
Posts: 666
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:01 am

Re: Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by rinker » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:39 am

I always keep two or three. For the first year or so, I don't think it is any more effort, or time to run two or three puppies than it is to run one. I run them in a gang and let them knock and chase birds, and they are usually backing each other very quickly. I can also sort them out and decide which one I like best.

I have been around a few professional trainers, and they may keep multiple whole litters of puppies. They run them ten or twelve at a time. They obviously aren't concerned about litter mate syndrome.

User avatar
Brazosvalleyvizslas
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1340
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:20 am
Location: Soon2be, Texas

Re: Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:19 am

I have seen no problem keeping multiple pups from a litter versus multiple pups from different litters.. If you have the time for multiple pups then you should be fine. Pups kept with the Mother are more of a problem then "littermate syndrome". IMO

User avatar
drich2244
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 2:29 pm
Location: Montana

Re: Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by drich2244 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:16 pm

thanks guys i sure appreciate all the info i cant help but feel like this littermate syndrome is more on owners than it is the dogs not saying that it doesnt happen to people who spend enough time training and working their pups but id be willing to bet it happens more often when people dont spend enough time with them

User avatar
ezzy333
GDF Junkie
Posts: 16625
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:14 pm
Location: Dixon IL

Re: Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:59 pm

I will tell you this, the littermate thing became an issue when the seeing eye people found you could not keep littermates and have them become seeing eye dogs. They just never developed enough independence or the ability to act by themselves. And that is about as good of information as you will ever get.

Ezzy

shags
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2717
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:57 pm

Re: Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by shags » Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:25 am

Depends on your situation and how many dogs you can keep at one time. It's fun to have pups and young dogs to work with, not so much fun when you've got several old dogs and no more room for any young ones to take their places.

CCBIRDDOGMAN
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:38 am
Location: Cedar Creek Lake, TX

Re: Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by CCBIRDDOGMAN » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:49 am

I kept two from a litter of Bittany's 3 years ago. They have kennels next to each other and I have had no issues, have even hunted them with each other but will admit that when hunting together, they will play around a bit when first let out. No big deal to me, I'm there to have fun too. when we get in the Mule & start covering ground, they will hunt independently with no problem. A few months ago, I got a call from one of the guys that bought a pup from me, he had taken a new job working nights and would be out of town alot so he was looking for someone to take him that would actually have time to hunt him, so I took him back too. So this year I will be hunting 3 from the same litter (plus, mom, dad & granny)

Neil
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3187
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:46 pm
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: Thoughts on keeping multiple pups from the same litter?

Post by Neil » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:10 am

Never an issue.

Post Reply