Neutering a 2.5 yr old lab

sdsujacks · Post by **sdsujacks** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:37 pm

First off, I want to apologize for posting a controversial topic that is often discussed. I scrolled throw old topics about this and have read several articles, my conclusion is that no two dogs are the same. My other conclusion is that everybody has their mind made up. I want to hear why I should or should not neuter my lab from people that have or have not done it, and are smarter than I am.

My lab is nearly 2.5 years old. He has a very high drive, but I doubt its any much higher than your average young lab that is in shape and loves to run, retrieve, swim, and hunt. He's my first dog, so I'm maybe a year behind where I should be in training him but he has been a very good and obedient dog that I get endless compliments on. He's 82 lbs but very lean and muscular, I control his feeding down to the 1/8th of the cup and make sure his ribs are slightly visible most of the year (I let him put on a few extra pounds as these Minnesota winters can get cold). He spends 98% of his time in the outdoor kennel. He does not bark, he does not run away (he will greet at most 1% of the dogs walking by our house if I'm not watching him close in the yard but thats the extent of his running away).

Why I am contemplating neutering him. Reason #1. My wife is from the city and not raised around hunting dogs, she has several ideas that may or may not be "myths." We bring him inside every now and then while we are watching tv, or when we go visit family and friends and he's inside the entire time, he will not lay down, always walking around. Is it annoying? Yes. Is it horrible, no. I chalk it up as he just loves people and doesn't want to miss anything, even if its midnight and he's normally asleep hours ago. She thinks neutering him will make him a calm housedog and a joy to be around others when inside.

Reason #2. He marks everything. It is a little annoying, and I question the first 10 minutes of when we're in the field if he's hunting for birds or hunting for marking spots. After that he's all birdy though. He does not mark inside unless there's another dog scent there (front desk at the vet, or when a friend but their dog and dog bed into our living room) but outside he marks a lot if she lets him, and I try to not let him do it so its not as bad.

Reason #3. He has a lot of energy. Do they or don't they lose energy when neutered? I love his energy while training him and hunting him and I DO NOT want to jeopardize that. Yeah it can be annoying at times when out fishing in the boat, or relaxing by the grill, but "bleep" I love his energy when hunting with him. In my mind thats what you get with a young field bred lab whether intact or not, and I may be wrong with that.

I always told her I would consider neutering him when he turned 2. Now he's nearing 2.5 and she wants it done, I'm still skeptical but I do not know why. I won't be breeding him either. Please do not turn this into bashing each others views, respect others opinions whether they differ from yours or not. I just want to hear what other people think who are more knowledgeable than I am and have had more than just 1 hunting dog in their life.

Lastly, thank you to everybody on this board for giving me little bits of advice over the last 2 years to help me build what is truly my best friend and a new lifelong passion.

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:49 pm

sdsujacks wrote:First off, I want to apologize for posting a controversial topic that is often discussed. I scrolled throw old topics about this and have read several articles, my conclusion is that no two dogs are the same. My other conclusion is that everybody has their mind made up. I want to hear why I should or should not neuter my lab from people that have or have not done it, and are smarter than I am.

My lab is nearly 2.5 years old. He has a very high drive, but I doubt its any much higher than your average young lab that is in shape and loves to run, retrieve, swim, and hunt. He's my first dog, so I'm maybe a year behind where I should be in training him but he has been a very good and obedient dog that I get endless compliments on. He's 82 lbs but very lean and muscular, I control his feeding down to the 1/8th of the cup and make sure his ribs are slightly visible most of the year (I let him put on a few extra pounds as these Minnesota winters can get cold). He spends 98% of his time in the outdoor kennel. He does not bark, he does not run away (he will greet at most 1% of the dogs walking by our house if I'm not watching him close in the yard but thats the extent of his running away).

Why I am contemplating neutering him. Reason #1. My wife is from the city and not raised around hunting dogs, she has several ideas that may or may not be "myths." We bring him inside every now and then while we are watching tv, or when we go visit family and friends and he's inside the entire time, he will not lay down, always walking around. Is it annoying? Yes. Is it horrible, no. I chalk it up as he just loves people and doesn't want to miss anything, even if its midnight and he's normally asleep hours ago. She thinks neutering him will make him a calm housedog and a joy to be around others when inside.

Reason #2. He marks everything It is a little annoying, and I question the first 10 minutes of when we're in the field if he's hunting for birds or hunting for marking spots. After that he's all birdy though. He does not mark inside unless there's another dog scent there (front desk at the vet, or when a friend but their dog and dog bed into our living room) but outside he marks a lot if she lets him, and I try to not let him do it so its not as bad.

Reason #3. He has a lot of energy. Do they or don't they lose energy when neutered? I love his energy while training him and hunting him and I DO NOT want to jeopardize that. Yeah it can be annoying at times when out fishing in the boat, or relaxing by the grill, but "bleep" I love his energy when hunting with him. In my mind thats what you get with a young field bred lab whether intact or not, and I may be wrong with that.

I always told her I would consider neutering him when he turned 2. Now he's nearing 2.5 and she wants it done, I'm still skeptical but I do not know why. I won't be breeding him either. Please do not turn this into bashing each others views, respect others opinions whether they differ from yours or not. I just want to hear what other people think who are more knowledgeable than I am and have had more than just 1 hunting dog in their life.

Lastly, thank you to everybody on this board for giving me little bits of advice over the last 2 years to help me build what is truly my best friend and a new lifelong passion.

#1: neutering will not make him a " calm housedog and a joy to be around others when inside. " He's at the peak of his energy level .

#2 Neutering sometimes helps with indoor marking , but as he doesn't mark inside, I don't see a reason to neuter.

#3 "Do they or don't they lose energy when neutered?" I don't believe they do based on my experience.

bottom line: no need to neuter

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:56 pm

They have already produced most of their testosterone by that age so you will probably see little change in their behavior.

shags · Post by **shags** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:27 am

None of my four males are neutered.
When we have company or take them visiting, they are sociable and wander around. Everything's new and interesting to them. If it gets annoying, telling them to lie down and stay works.
They do not mark inside. Outside, they do some. That's the nature of the beast,
That hyper energy slows down around four years old. Still a lot of drive even my 12+ year olds, but not so antsy.

My daughter's dogs are all neutered.
When they have company or visit here, they are sociable and want to wander around. Everything's new and interesting. I don't like them to wander around inside when they visit here. See below.
They all mark inside. And outside.
They have varying energy levels. Old ones more mellow, young ones not so much.

Neutering doesn't fix behavior. Training does.

I would neuter a dog for medical necessity only ( and IMO preventing the small chance of testicular cancer or prostate problems is not a medical necessity).

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:21 am

It won't affect the energy level or activity in the house. Socialization, discipline, and consistency is the only way to fix that. No shortcuts like most people think.

Marking can be controlled as well through consistency. Neither of my dogs mark and one is a GSP and one is a lab (both are intact). I just never let them have the chance and get away with it because it's nasty.

It's tougher because your dog is older now but if you want him to be calm in the house, make him be calm. A good starter excercise is to tell your dog kennel when people come over but don't shut the kennel door. Make him learn to sit in there quietly.

I won't neuter my dogs because they are either inside, or out with me in control. BUT 99% of the crappy mix bred or poorly bred dogs you see out and about these days should be because it prevents accidental breedings. If you can control your dog 100% of the time then it's not necessary at all and won't fix any problems you're having.

My wife wishes I would though, especially because he's lover and roan but his "golden globes" are HIGHLY visible and it embarrasses her haha.

Now if I had a female dog I'd get her fixed because I find that process nasty. Jmo.

RickB · Post by **RickB** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:33 am

There is just not a lot of good reasons to neuter a male dog. There is a growing corpus of evidence which may indicate there is reason to not neuter. One study compared early neutered dogs with late and non neutered dogs and found a risk in early neutering. Since your dog is 2.5 years old, you've cleared that hurdle. A recent study (linked below) has shown a correlation between various cancers and desexing a dog. Also shows an increased fear of thunderstorms, interestingly enough.

If this were my situation, I would try to educate my wife with the below. If the wife were of the "don't confuse me with the facts..." persuasion, I would neuter the dog.

Some links:
http://www.chicagonow.com/training-the- ... t-fit-all/
(disclosure...this is my blog)

http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/1/5 ... _study.pdf

RickB

smoothbean · Post by **smoothbean** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:17 am

I have both intact and neutered males and don't have a strong opinion either way. My opinion is it really depends on the male. Some are much easier to deal with when neutered than others. I have also had intact males that are not bad at all about some of the male behaviors. Neutering has not affected any of our dogs energy levels or weight. I had one male that would go hunting over a female in heat, so he wasn't a problem at all. I actually had a hard time getting him to breed females. I guess testosterone levels vary in dogs. But I have also seen males that get aggressive when there are females in heat around. Especially when they are not getting to breed and the female is in the vicinity for long periods.

I have had dogs neutered earlier before they start the marking behavior. It was nice as when we went hunting or trialing they didn't/ don't do all the marking when they stopped to pee usually before we got in the field they did it til they are empty and that was it. I have only done one male later in life and he was not bad about marking and the other male behaviors anyway so I can't judge neutering dogs that have already started the behaviors. I would guess once they start that's how it is.

I do think that neutering will remove some of the distractions that are a pain to deal with. I think new dog people may get along better without those distractions that they may not know how to deal with. I also think it helps keep the (some) dogs focused.

There are also a lot of folks that won't do it because ol' Fido is the best dog they have ever had and they may want to breed to him. Most of the time that doesn't pan out or if it does he may not get to breed to a quality female. Most people who have a quality female are only going to breed to a male that has proven his ability in the field.

This is one of those topics that can get out of hand for sure. You will have to just make the decision and not worry about the folks that don't agree with it, except of course for your wife!! LOL You better have a good case if you are going to go against what you told her.

Good Luck!!

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:03 am

Neutering won't solve any of the issues outlined above without training (which could be done without neutering), but if you want to neuter, he's old enough that I personally wouldn't be opposed to it. He's matured physically and mentally past puppyhood, his growth plates should be closed, and therefore, he won't continue to grow absent hormones. I honestly don't see a problem with neutering.

Steve007 · Post by **Steve007** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:37 am

sdsujacks wrote:Why I am contemplating neutering him. Reason #1. My wife is from the city and not raised around hunting dogs, she has several ideas that may or may not be "myths." We bring him inside every now and then while we are watching tv, or when we go visit family and friends and he's inside the entire time, he will not lay down, always walking around. Is it annoying? Yes. Is it horrible, no. I chalk it up as he just loves people and doesn't want to miss anything, even if its midnight and he's normally asleep hours ago.

A) You are correct. Your wife believes in myths.

B) If you leave him inside when you're gone, how do you know he doesn't lie down? Fot that matter, maybe he's protective when you're gone and is "on patrol". That's a good thing, not a bad thing.

C) Put a little obedience work into him and teach him a "down" and "stay".' Don't forget you'll need a "release word" that you don't use in normal conversation. I use "free". Gradually, youll be able to stick on a down while you watch TV until you release him. After awhile, he'll calm down and lie down on his own while you watch TV or eat dinner.

You just need to put some training into him. Find an obedience class or at least buy some books. Short sessions, twice a day. After awhile, it will even be fun. Be patient. Dogs aren't perfect by themselves; you have to work with them. Neutering will serve no purpose if you don't train, and even less than that if you do.

aulrich · Post by **aulrich** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:36 am

I am in a very similar spot, though mine does not mark in my house, though I am not sure how trust worthy he would be as a visitor. But for the most part I have dodged most of the troublesome male dog issues, one issue I have is I may neuter him for safety issues. By necessity I spend lots of time on public off leash areas, and intact males seem to attract all sorts of attention. Some just annoying like every dog in the park having to sniff his balls or female dogs pestering him, to dominance displays and the odd barking fight. I have had no real bad encounter(I have seen more owner fights/arguments than actual dog fights), but eventually I fear I will run into that dog that just rolls in and attacks. Fixing will pretty much fix the annoying parts and remove most of the safety threat.

I don’t know about yours but mine does actually have an off switch, but it is never off when I am home.

sdsujacks · Post by **sdsujacks** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:39 am

Steve007 wrote: C) Put a little obedience work into him and teach him a "down" and "stay".' Don't forget you'll need a "release word" that you don't use in normal conversation. I use "free". Gradually, youll be able to stick on a down while you watch TV until you release him. After awhile, he'll calm down and lie down on his own while you watch TV or eat dinner.

You just need to put some training into him. Find an obedience class or at least buy some books. Short sessions, twice a day. After awhile, it will even be fun. Be patient. Dogs aren't perfect by themselves; you have to work with them. Neutering will serve no purpose if you don't train, and even less than that if you do.

I train everyday for quite some time...

He knows all the commands, I followed Dokken's book early on but have since moved over to some of Evan's stuff for more specifics. FF, Sit, sit-to-stay, down, heel, come, back, over, etc all to voice, whistle and hand signals. He can stay for 30 minutes if I want him to. She wants him to just "lay down and sleep" while inside, which he does if its just us two around. He knows no furniture, he knows there's only 1 room he can stay in unless he is called to a different room.

Like I said, I feel like he is your average 2.5 year old lab energy and curiosity wise and she is just not used to that. She has friends with neutered labs that lay around the house all day and their energy level was "cut in half" when neutered and doesn't understand why it can't be the same here... I was convinced early on of the negative health affects of neutering too early, which is why I told her I would CONSIDER it at this age but not early on. Now I am doing just that, considering it, but wanting to know both sides of it before I do it. If it was just me, I'm 80% sure he'd stay intact... But it's not just my decision.

sdsujacks · Post by **sdsujacks** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:49 am

Bluesky2012 wrote:I
Marking can be controlled as well through consistency. Neither of my dogs mark and one is a GSP and one is a lab (both are intact). I just never let them have the chance and get away with it because it's nasty.

I feel like this is the biggest area I messed up on. His first year of his life he lived in rural South Dakota with me. Now his second year of his life he lives in the Metro of Minneapolis with me and my wife where there is the constant other dog smells to mark over. I didn't realize he was starting to mark on everything before it was too late. But I've found the little ways of fixing it on a walk... take a few steps out when coming near a mailbox or fence post, a "no" when I can tell he is getting the urge, etc. I give him two chances to pee while outside. We fail with the consistency though, my wife gives him several more than 2 chances....

I feel like his marking is now a habit and it will not be fixed whether he is neutered or not. She feels like if he is neutered he will pee on time and let it all out.

sdsujacks · Post by **sdsujacks** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:55 am

So from what I can gather. His marking, energy, drive, weight, health affects, etc. will all stay relatively similar to what they currently are (until he ages)? For the most part the only thing that will change by neutering him at this point in the game is that we will lose the potential unwanted breeding?

To me... why mess with it then?

Steve007 · Post by **Steve007** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:21 pm

You don't have a dog problem; given that few dogs are perfect at 2 1/2, sounds ilke he'll be fine. You've got a wife problem. Me, too.

My (now) wife moved in with me whenI had a 9-year-old trial-bred Gordon Setter. Beyond his competition field accomplishments (which were considerable),he was one of the best competition obedience Gordons in the country. We'd lived together--full-time house AND office-- for his entire life. My (now) wife had never lived with a dog,and she though that's what dogs were like!

When he passed away, I got a year old untrained GWP. He was MUCH quieter and calmer than my Gordon had been at the same age,but my wife thought he was crazy, He was VERY stable, but my wife kept comparing him to the thoroughly- trained Gordon she remembered who lived to be 16. Non-dog women don't want real dogs;they want stuffed dogs. Neutering won't change your dog in any favorable ways; it won't change your wife either. But over time, if you keep working with your dog, he will become more what she wants.

My wirehair is four now and beyond birdhunting, we compete in obedience and he's a great housedog. My wife likes him, most of the time. But I think she'd still rather have a stuffed dog or a toy poodle. Non-dog people aren't like you and I; dogs to them are just an interference that they put up with for their husbands (or wives, I guess). They want dogs to be dumpy and out of the way. You can't change them. Bring your dog inside far more than "2% of the time"; he'll get better.

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:59 am

sdsujacks wrote:
Bluesky2012 wrote:I
Marking can be controlled as well through consistency. Neither of my dogs mark and one is a GSP and one is a lab (both are intact). I just never let them have the chance and get away with it because it's nasty.
I feel like this is the biggest area I messed up on. His first year of his life he lived in rural South Dakota with me. Now his second year of his life he lives in the Metro of Minneapolis with me and my wife where there is the constant other dog smells to mark over. I didn't realize he was starting to mark on everything before it was too late. But I've found the little ways of fixing it on a walk... take a few steps out when coming near a mailbox or fence post, a "no" when I can tell he is getting the urge, etc. I give him two chances to pee while outside. We fail with the consistency though, my wife gives him several more than 2 chances....

I feel like his marking is now a habit and it will not be fixed whether he is neutered or not. She feels like if he is neutered he will pee on time and let it all out.

Yeah you missed the early on golden hour to fix it but consistency can fix it now if you put in the effort. Never let the dog do something you wouldn't allow 100% of the time, and he won't do it.

deke · Post by **deke** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:02 pm

sdsujacks wrote:So from what I can gather. His marking, energy, drive, weight, health affects, etc. will all stay relatively similar to what they currently are (until he ages)? For the most part the only thing that will change by neutering him at this point in the game is that we will lose the potential unwanted breeding?

To me... why mess with it then?

You pretty much have it figured out. My first lab was neutered way to young ( pound puppy) He turned out to be a hunting machine, died at 12 , and that was from a car wreck. My yellow dog in my avatar was from a litter of 14 , 12 of which were males. He is 8 and the last male alive from the litter, and also the only one that was not clipped. Both of my dogs went through a phase where they were hyper, one of them stopped at three the other was a bit longer. If your lab is anything like my pup invest in a tennis racquet, find a big field and go hit balls until the dog can hardly walk. Tired dogs are good dogs.

sdsujacks · Post by **sdsujacks** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:47 pm

deke wrote:You pretty much have it figured out. My first lab was neutered way to young ( pound puppy) He turned out to be a hunting machine, died at 12 , and that was from a car wreck. My yellow dog in my avatar was from a litter of 14 , 12 of which were males. He is 8 and the last male alive from the litter, and also the only one that was not clipped. Both of my dogs went through a phase where they were hyper, one of them stopped at three the other was a bit longer. If your lab is anything like my pup invest in a tennis racquet, find a big field and go hit balls until the dog can hardly walk. Tired dogs are good dogs.

Tired dogs are good dogs has been a quote I use constantly off of this site. I've found that a chuck it at the field works pretty good. I've recently gotten into biking too, and that works great, he runs at heel next to me. Which brings me to my next question... do I have to worry about the pounding on the pavement on his joints or anything if he runs a few miles next to me a few days a week?

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:29 am

sdsujacks wrote:
deke wrote:You pretty much have it figured out. My first lab was neutered way to young ( pound puppy) He turned out to be a hunting machine, died at 12 , and that was from a car wreck. My yellow dog in my avatar was from a litter of 14 , 12 of which were males. He is 8 and the last male alive from the litter, and also the only one that was not clipped. Both of my dogs went through a phase where they were hyper, one of them stopped at three the other was a bit longer. If your lab is anything like my pup invest in a tennis racquet, find a big field and go hit balls until the dog can hardly walk. Tired dogs are good dogs.
Tired dogs are good dogs has been a quote I use constantly off of this site. I've found that a chuck it at the field works pretty good. I've recently gotten into biking too, and that works great, he runs at heel next to me. Which brings me to my next question... do I have to worry about the pounding on the pavement on his joints or anything if he runs a few miles next to me a few days a week?

Not if his joints are cleared from genetic issues. Too much running is bad, but unless he's genetically prone it isn't a big deal in my opinion

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:25 am

Neutering will not slow him down, nor will it stop him from marking everything outside - especially at 2.5 years old. Male dogs mark - that's what they do. He has lots of energy because he is 2 and a half - he's still a puppy and not fully mature. In another year you will notice him calming down quite a bit. Whether he had his boys or not - he'd still be a pup, so that's not a good enough reason. However, if your wife is adamant about him being snipped, you can at least be reassured that he is done growing so it will not affect him negatively that way. After the age of 2 its really just a personal preference I think. His behavior will not change at that point. I personally wouldn't neuter him since he really has no issues - he's a normal acting, young male dog. But that is your... and your wife's choice to make. I was in the same position 7 years ago with a previous dog. He was very loving and had no negative behaviors. At the time, my ex and I were expecting the birth of our daughter and she had read or heard that intact male dogs were not good with children (not sure where she got that from but it was firmly in her head). At the time my guy was 3 years old I believe and it was either get the snip or move him along - so the choice was obvious. Did it change him at all? Not in the slightest. He was still a loving, active dog... who would mark every single blade of grass on a walk long after he had drained the tank. Later on, she did tell me she felt bad we had done it as he was a good dog and his behavior really didn't shift at all. So, I understand where you're coming from and have been in the same shoes. Its not the end of the world if you get him fixed - but it also isn't the answer that your wife thinks she is looking for. Best of luck, happy hunting!

sdsujacks · Post by **sdsujacks** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:23 am

Thanks for all the advice guys, it's much appreciated.

I'm really torn on what to do... why "fix" something that won't fix any of the "problems." Why not "fix" something when it won't change his behavior AND it will maker her happy.

I am glad that from the very start I was able to tell her we will discuss it when he's 2, no earlier, and she was fine with that. But now he turned 2 four months ago, so I'm getting hammered for a "fix".

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:20 pm

Just tell her there is not a good reason to and leave it at that. It's wasted money. Tell her to take the $100 and go buy new shoes instead, and she'll forget all about it

aulrich · Post by **aulrich** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:07 pm

My wife is like that too but has seen the light for the most part at least for behavior issues. I am still considering it for the previously mentioned safety issue but not till after hunting season.

Steve007 · Post by **Steve007** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:18 pm

What "safety issue" would that be? I must have missed it.

aulrich · Post by **aulrich** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:02 pm

Intact mature males get lots of attention from other dogs, some of it just annoying ball sniffing with any number of dogs at a time to mounting and escalating levels of dominance. Worst case being another dog trotting in and just starting a fight because he is there and the scent of testosterone means he is a threat. Because I live in the big city I am stuck using public off leash areas for daily exercise, I can’t know for sure every dog we run into does not have owner problems. Neutered he won’t put of the sex scent and is much less likely to trigger someone else’s dog with dominance issues.

shags · Post by **shags** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:02 pm

What if your dog develops neutered-dog-toward-intact-dog aggression?

Post by **Sharon** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:46 pm

I see that regularly in the dog park. The dogs are playing and an unneutered dog appears and all heck breaks loose. Never believed it till I saw it.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:30 am

I avoid dog parks but I did use them when my pups were younger just to socialize them. Most of the aggressive dogs I seen though were fixed dogs. I did have one lady's dog attack mine (luckily not bad or long before I got the boots to it) and her first thing was "is your dog fixed?" I said no, he's only 4 months old. She said oh, well thats why. My dog can probably tell, he doesn't like dogs that aren't fixed. I not-so-politely told her she was an idiot and shouldn't have an untrained and unsocialized dog running free with other dogs in public.

sdsujacks · Post by **sdsujacks** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:42 am

Just because of the stuff I've read off here on the dangers of dog parks, in my 11 months of living in the Twin Cities I've yet to visit one. I've found that cold and rainy days (or negative degree days in the winter) are great days to get into the bigger regional parks for some off leash running... I know I'll get in trouble for it one of these days though.

aulrich · Post by **aulrich** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:14 am

One thing I am curious about is when you see the phrase “dog park” or “off-leash” what does that mean to you. Around here it has a couple of meanings. I live by one of our city’s biggest dog parks, My normal loop through it is a bit over 4 km and that is not covering the same ground twice. The next level is community off leash areas this can be a park but typically it best describes as strips of land between communities, sometimes it is mowed and sometimes it is undeveloped hillside and in the case of the one by my house it actually has a small population of Huns and Pheasants. After that it’s land on the city fringe waiting to be developed, or conservations sites either provincial, Ducks unlimited or Pheasants forever.

So what do they look like where you are.

In general I have had very good luck using dog parks I have run into plenty of good people with good dogs and very few actually bad dogs, plenty of annoying dogs but there is a difference.

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:07 pm

sdsujacks wrote:Just because of the stuff I've read off here on the dangers of dog parks, in my 11 months of living in the Twin Cities I've yet to visit one. I've found that cold and rainy days (or negative degree days in the winter) are great days to get into the bigger regional parks for some off leash running... I know I'll get in trouble for it one of these days though.

I used to think the same way , but when I got a JRT that couldn't handle the deep winter snow in the fields with the setters, I started taking him to the dog park. It has been a positive experience for him and me- only one big dog fight over an unneutered dog. I only use big dog parks though, fields and cover.Smaller ones with a lot of dogs can lead to problems.

sdsujacks: Normally I'm a law keeper but to be honest I sometimes let mine run off leash in one of our huge conservation areas where they are to be leashed. I rarely see another soul there and I figure a fine will be worth the 25 years of doing that - NOT during breeding season.

Steve007 · Post by **Steve007** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:35 am

Better check your dog regularly for worms and not skip the Frontline if you go to dog parks. All dog owners don't pay as much attention to such things as they should. Interacting wiith amateur pet owners has a lot of negatives.

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:23 pm

I've found that folks who will bother to take their dog in a dog park for a run every day are overly- conscientious about health care. Mine use Advantix 2 and have their feces checked yearly, but not because I go to a dog park sometimes.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:17 pm

Sharon wrote:I've found that folks who will bother to take their dog in a dog park for a run every day are overly- conscientious about health care. Mine use Advantix 2 and have their feces checked yearly, but not because I go to a dog park sometimes.

I go to dog parks and have never had a problem.

sdsujacks · Post by **sdsujacks** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:24 am

I'm leaning towards doing it..
Reason #1. It will make her happy.
Reason #2. She wants it done "because it's what responsible dog owners do." I've done a decent amount of research and talking to a few trainers and have let her know that it will not change his puppy energy. I also have heard enough that I don't think it should change his hunting desire either.

I'm still leary of doing it... But most people have said the dog won't change at this age so I hope that is true! Some people have said I will have to exercise more and he may lose his lean and fit build easier if I'm not careful with food and exercise.

What is the recovery time like before back to normal training and running?

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:39 pm

sdsujacks wrote:I'm leaning towards doing it..
Reason #1. It will make her happy.
Reason #2. She wants it done "because it's what responsible dog owners do." I've done a decent amount of research and talking to a few trainers and have let her know that it will not change his puppy energy. I also have heard enough that I don't think it should change his hunting desire either.

I'm still leary of doing it... But most people have said the dog won't change at this age so I hope that is true! Some people have said I will have to exercise more and he may lose his lean and fit build easier if I'm not careful with food and exercise.

What is the recovery time like before back to normal training and running?

Looks like she's simultaneously neutering you...

sdsujacks · Post by **sdsujacks** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:54 pm

Bluesky2012 wrote:Looks like she's simultaneously neutering you...

I'm fully aware.... It started with our move from small town South Dakota to the Twin Cities (where she grew up). FYI... never move to a city, city-life is horrible. I took a job 60 miles south of the city just so I could escape it every day and work in a friendly small town. And have leverage to convince her to move out of the city someday, hopefully.

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:18 pm

having dogs in the house is one more subject that requires compromise to keep a happy marriage. "It'll keep her happy " is a good reason. I'm sure she will make compromises to make you happy = a good marriage. My husband never had a pet in his home - Dr's family - germs unwanted. I had dogs all my life. It has worked for us.

See this link for recovery time:

viewtopic.php?f=88&t=46973

sdsujacks · Post by **sdsujacks** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:12 pm

Sharon wrote:having dogs in the house is one more subject that requires compromise to keep a happy marriage. "It'll keep her happy " is a good reason. I'm sure she will make compromises to make you happy = a good marriage. My husband never had a pet in his home - Dr's family - germs unwanted. I had dogs all my life. It has worked for us.

See this link for recovery time:

viewtopic.php?f=88&t=46973

We've gotten a pretty good compromise on the dog in the house rule. She is allergic to dogs but recently underwent allergy shots (couldn't finish all of them though due to starting a new job and longer hours) and those have worked wonders! We let him inside for a little bit at night once the day is coming to an end, he knows there's only 1 room he can come in unless we call him into a different room with us. I really enjoy our set-up with this, forces us to get outside, be active and enjoy the day whether its -20 degrees or 90 degrees outside.

I have fallen in love with dog training though and look forward to getting home every night to work on something with him, I wish I knew more when I started this 2 years ago but we are starting to make some big strides lately. I get a chuckle out of the guys coming in this forum with a new dog wanting to know where to start, everybody responds "get a program and follow it," it wasn't long ago I was in their shoes and not having the slightest clue in the world what a "program" was in dog training. After a lot of dedication, research, books, videos, money (I was only 22, broke, and fresh out of college when I got him, now at 24 I'm fortunate compared to a lot of people my age), and countless hours in the yard and fields, I'm seeing it all come together and it's a great feeling! So a thank you to everybody that posts on this forum, and be nice to some of those young guys that don't know the front end from the back end of the dog they just got. That said, I've still got a lot of stuff to learn, the day I stop learning is the day my dog get's worse.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:41 pm

If it will keep her happy then do it. You have to live with her lol. I do not like the "its what responsible owners do" comment but I also know what its like to live with women (young and old - whether they're 4 or 40 they truly are all sisters, LMAO) so I say do what you have to. Your boy is physically mature. They recover quick - the last male I had that I neutered was back to normal 2 days later (mind you that first day he was a real puss, but he was a bit of a princess to start with). Its mainly the sedation that takes the biggest toll on them. There doesn't appear to be much discomfort. Good luck