Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

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hi-tailyn
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Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by hi-tailyn » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:57 am

Read List and short answer is only 9oz. or less are usable in Field Trials. :roll: :roll:

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by hi-tailyn » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:41 pm

How many bought the DC50 thinking it was the newest technology and safest and quickest way to recover your dog.

How many pre orders are there for the new T5 thinking for sure it was going to be approved.

Now that you can't get the old DC40 or DC 30's what is the answer?

I think the old DC30 will be in very Hot Demand over the next 6mths since it had better satellite then the DC 40.

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by myerstenn » Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:34 am

Why would anybody think it would be approved, the dc 50 has never been approved?

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by Neil » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:31 am

Why would they not approve all of them? I don't understand why they are concerned about an ounce or two. Anyone know the reasoning?

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by hi-tailyn » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:39 am

What is everyone(Field Trialers) doing that didn't buy a Garmin system 4 yrs ago which the DC40 was available doing for field trials.

Is there available the older DC 30 & 40's for people to buy.

We are restricted to 4+ yr old technology that is not near as good as what is available present day to the public.

I have a DC30 & 40 and like the 30 better. Garmin must like it better also, so much that they went back to the GPS sensor on top of the collar on the 50 and T5. Now we are having to use 6+ yr old technology.

T5 is 9.2 oz. It is 0.2 oz to heavy. That is equal to the duct tape or electrical tape that we all have used to tape the antennas on our tracking collars. If we weighed all the collars used today that are legal after using them for awhile I bet all would weigh more then the 9.0oz max limit including any ground in dirt and mud.

Does the dog really feel this kind of weight difference? I don't believe so.

It is the Prongs that the dogs feel and that is what they may change their attitude about.

We need to be able to use the Best technology possible to help retrieve our dogs when needed.

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by myerstenn » Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:05 am

In my opinion the lack of information from the source does nothing but create additional headaches that they force on themselves. if the AFTCA was a little more forth coming with the why and how etc. may be people could have a better understanding of what their issue really is?????

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:17 am

Politics.... The FCC has not approved it to be sold.

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by DGFavor » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:19 pm

We need to be able to use the Best technology possible to help retrieve our dogs when needed.
Pretty good list of telemetry collars available, approved and still "the Best technology possible to help retrieve our dogs when needed."

Much ado about nothing for those purely interested in just retrieving lost dogs. Every dog I know lost in the last few years and found dead was wearing a Garmin.

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by hi-tailyn » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:51 pm

When is Marshall coming out with their GPS system that they keep hinting about for the last 5+ years?

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by Neil » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:33 pm

DGFavor wrote:
We need to be able to use the Best technology possible to help retrieve our dogs when needed.
Pretty good list of telemetry collars available, approved and still "the Best technology possible to help retrieve our dogs when needed."

Much ado about nothing for those purely interested in just retrieving lost dogs. Every dog I know lost in the last few years and found dead was wearing a Garmin.
Citation please on your last sentence?

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by ultracarry » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:25 am

^. I don't think you can cite something based in personal expierence.... I don't own a Marshall but would probably do so when I get fed up with garmin loosing contact with my dog after .8 miles....

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by Neil » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:40 pm

ultracarry wrote:^. I don't think you can cite something based in personal expierence.... I don't own a Marshall but would probably do so when I get fed up with garmin loosing contact with my dog after .8 miles....
OK, good point.

Doc,

How many dogs do you know about that were found dead wearing a Garmin? I have seen a thousand or so recovered alive wearing one.

But that doesn't answer my question about why the weight restrictions, since modern e-collars weigh less than 4 ounce.

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by Karen » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:58 pm

I thought the bigger issue was that the the DC50 looked EXACTLY like the sportdog track and train model, and they felt people would cheat and use a collar with prongs.

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by Neil » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:44 pm

Karen wrote:I thought the bigger issue was that the the DC50 looked EXACTLY like the sportdog track and train model, and they felt people would cheat and use a collar with prongs.
Were that the case they would never have approved the SportDog Tek 1.0, which has removable prongs, no at the Trustee' s meeting it was specifically a weight issue. And they restated the handheld must be turned off and under the control of the judge. I can find no justification, it is just anti-Garmin.

You would think with all the dogs Doc is seeing die while wearing one, no one would want one and they wouldn't have to punish a major sponsor with nonsensical rules.

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by dan v » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:20 pm

Karen wrote:I thought the bigger issue was that the the DC50 looked EXACTLY like the sportdog track and train model, and they felt people would cheat and use a collar with prongs.
Karen...the DC50 collar is the the spitting image of the Garmin Alpha collar....e-collar and GPS collar in one.

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by ACooper » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:54 pm

hi-tailyn wrote: T5 is 9.2 oz. It is 0.2 oz to heavy. That is equal to the duct tape or electrical tape that we all have used to tape the antennas on our tracking collars. If we weighed all the collars used today that are legal after using them for awhile I bet all would weigh more then the 9.0oz max limit including any ground in dirt and mud.

Does the dog really feel this kind of weight difference? I don't believe so.
While I tend to agree the line has to be drawn somewhere, otherwise the collars continue to grow, I hope they stick at 9oz. Garmin is foolish for not keeping the collar under the limit. I cannot believe that they could not shave 2oz from the weight.

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by Karen » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:56 pm

Wyndancer wrote:
Karen wrote:I thought the bigger issue was that the the DC50 looked EXACTLY like the sportdog track and train model, and they felt people would cheat and use a collar with prongs.
Karen...the DC50 collar is the the spitting image of the Garmin Alpha collar....e-collar and GPS collar in one.
Ok...I knew I'd read a post somewhere about it being identical to an e-collar and an AKC rep saying they would not approve it because of that.

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:06 pm

That has always been many peoples argument against the use of GPS collars but the dogs safety is priority one for me.

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by hi-tailyn » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:05 pm

I have seen on several posts on other sites where they upgraded collars or trimmed the excess 10" off the collar that non of the pointing dogs need and all the collars were under the 9oz weight limit.

If Garmin would put a 15" collar instead of the 22" it would work for the pointing dog field trials. If it was done by Garmin and Sold as a option It would fit within the Rules Weight Limitations.

Most of us use the extra 10" as a handle when collaring our dog and moving out of the area to be released again to go find birds.

Then the second question is why they are so stuck on that the receiver has to be turned off when in the control of the Marshall or Judges.

Everyone knows that the limiting factor of the Garmin is reacquiring signal from dog long distances from receiver. If left on Mute and left on, If you didn't reacquire signal right away, you would at least know where last signal came from.

Unless someone is Anti Garmin some of rules are not for the betterment of the dogs or field trialing.
IMO

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by Neil » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:16 pm

hi-tailyn wrote:I have seen on several posts on other sites where they upgraded collars or trimmed the excess 10" off the collar that non of the pointing dogs need and all the collars were under the 9oz weight limit.

If Garmin would put a 15" collar instead of the 22" it would work for the pointing dog field trials. If it was done by Garmin and Sold as a option It would fit within the Rules Weight Limitations.

Most of us use the extra 10" as a handle when collaring our dog and moving out of the area to be released again to go find birds.

Then the second question is why they are so stuck on that the receiver has to be turned off when in the control of the Marshall or Judges.

Everyone knows that the limiting factor of the Garmin is reacquiring signal from dog long distances from receiver. If left on Mute and left on, If you didn't reacquire signal right away, you would at least know where last signal came from.


Unless someone is Anti Garmin some of rules are not for the betterment of the dogs or field trialing.
IMO
Racially my point, without explanation it is clearly solely anti-Garmin. How does it make sense to attack a sponsor.

If there is a reason, they should publish it.

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by DGFavor » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:31 pm

How many dogs do you know about that were found dead wearing a Garmin?
4 - one lost at a trial got shot, one lost training and hit on highway, one lost hunting found on highway, one lost hunting found dead near road likely hit. I have no idea the circumstances that the equipment did not work...might have been as simple as not turned on for all I know. Tele doesn't work well either if it's not turned on! :lol:

I have had opportunity to hand over many Garmin units to handlers picking up their dogs and it seems to me to be the exception that they promptly, if at all, pick up the dog. On the other hand, I've handed over plenty of tele receivers and can't think of single time they did not have signal immediately.

I agree, the success rate of retrieval certainly outweighs the few tragedies - I was merely responding to the statement that folks ought to be able to use the best available equipment and IMO, they can, the rules allow them to do so if they choose. IMO, with the currently available and allowed technology, if your dog is seriously gonna get outta pocket you better have a tele collar on it.

It is no secret which collars are currently allowed to be used in trials. I personally could care less which collar folks strap to their vest, they could use an e-collar for all I care, but I feel little sympathy for the folks that knowingly buy items not on the list and expect the rules to be changed to accommodate them.

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by Neil » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:15 am

Doug,

Do you read the posts before responding?

I am not asking for sympathy, I am asking for an explanation as to why the Trustees will not allow the latest technology to perhaps avoid your experiences? And why they insist the handheld be turned off even though it must be in the control of the judge, knowing it often will not resync?

Every ask yourself why nearly every pro and serious amateur, even those previously sponsored by the telemetry companies, switched to Garmin? Do you really think you know better? Most of those making telemetry have gone out of business for some reason.

I sure don't care what you or anyone else puts on their dogs, I just don't want unfair treatment that puts dogs in danger. Telemetry can't compete on its merits so the decision makers tilt the rules to their advantage.

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by DGFavor » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:03 am

Geez Neil, I read your post and directly answered the question you asked with numbers and specifics - ??

As far as the "little sympathy" remark, unless you are one of the folks I was referring to in my statement, which I do not get the impression is the case, it was not directed at you (Do you read?? :lol: :lol: ) - I will repeat:
"I feel little sympathy for the folks that knowingly buy items not on the list and expect the rules to be changed to accommodate them."
Every ask yourself why nearly every pro and serious amateur, even those previously sponsored by the telemetry companies, switched to Garmin?
Heck yah I have! I ask myself that every single time I see someone, anyone, trying to use the dang things and they cannot find their dogs, including pros and serious amateurs! (to be fair, I've seen a fair share of folks - not the pros or serious amateurs - using telemetry wandering around looking for dogs) It is little argument, that for pure retrieval of lost dogs in a trial setting, telemetry is still the best piece of equipment available - waay better range, waaaay longer battery life. When folks state, as the basis of their argument to use a new device, that they are simply "trying to use the best equipment available", I find the argument to be more self-serving than one based on reality. I would have much more respect for their case if they simply stated what I believe to be the case, "here is the equipment I have purchased and personally prefer to use, it works best for me...why can't I use it?".

Again, I don't care what people use (which makes me wonder why I am even commenting in the thread - dang WWW suckered me in! :lol: :lol: ) and, unless it is one of my own, I certainly don't pay attention to what is hanging on the dog's necks.

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by Neil » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:33 am

Doc,

We are in agreement.

Hope all is well.

Neil

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by hi-tailyn » Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:52 pm

https://www.akc.org/trackingdevices/

AKC approves the T5 for Field Trials.

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Re: Garmin T5 does NOT make AFTCA List of usable collars.

Post by RichK » Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:37 pm

hi-tailyn wrote:https://www.akc.org/trackingdevices/

AKC approves the T5 for Field Trials.
Awesome. I almost bought a used DC40 unit today. Glad I waited.

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