Reasonable amount to spend on pup

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:37 pm

Hey guys! I was womdering What is a reasonable price to pay for a healthy, quality bred lab, or DD? I am still in the market, and it seems like some of the (what i would consider) better breeding programs charge around 1000 for a lab. I have seen 900 as the amount it costs to breed, whelp and vet a decent pup. My biggest concern with buying a hunting buddy is longevity. I want to get the healthiest puppy possible. Does spending more ensure better health? As much as i want the best hunting dog i can get, i would rather have a long living buddy that isn't the best hunter than a hard hunting dog that dies young. I am looking to save 2500 so i can cover all unexpected costs of my next hunting buddy. I am almost there, i have 1800 saved up but will now have to postpone getting my next hunting buddy for a year until my lease is up or possible two ( chose to go back to school and finish my degree with the down payment i had saved up for a house)(wtf was i thinking??!?!?!?) when i will be done with my degree and wont have to worry about renting an apt near school anymore and can finally get into a house. I am still trying to find the right breeder, and figure out which is best for me, but i just wanted to know if 2500 will cover all the costs. How much should i expect to spend on a good healthy pup?

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:32 pm

$1,000.00 is a reasonable amount to spend; don't forget the air fare. For longevity, I'd go with the DD. I have had a HARD time getting my labs past 10-11.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:37 pm

Hahahahahaha sorry, but are you under the impression that you'll have LESS expenses after getting a degree? You've gotta tell me what student loan program you went through because I got hosed!

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:40 pm

Sorry, forgot to answer your question... I'd say, depending on the line, anywhere from $1000 to $1300 is a fair price... In Minnesota breeders are required to have some sort of health guarantee... Some do a year, others will go up to 3 years...

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:23 pm

[quote="Minneguy"].................... Does spending more ensure better health? ................

.............I am looking to save $2500. so i can cover all unexpected costs of my next hunting buddy. quote]
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

No exact answers for theses questions.

A well bred pup that has a health clearance from common diseases for that breed , going back at least 5 years , will cost $1000.00 + depending on your country. No promises the dog will be healthy all its life.

$2500. will not cover all unexpected costs of your "next hunting buddy".
One emergency can cost that much.
I'm up to $1000.00 this week as a result of my dog stepping on a wasp nest.
3 years ago , knee surgery cost $3500.00
YOu can put your dog down if you don't have the money but pretty hard to do with a great ,young hunting dog, who simply needs a new knee.

Dog insurance is an option for emergencies. $100.00 a month covers most everything except flea/tick control/ heartworm meds.

15 years of dog care is not cheap.

PS
Also consider the fact that you can't be at school all day and leave a pup in a crate for 10 hours.With a pup in a crate in an apt., you need to come home at lunch or pay someone to come in at lunch. A sporting breed also needs LOTS of your time for exercise- and not a walk around the block.

Not trying to discourage you , but I believe folks need all the facts before making a "dog decision".

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:52 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:Hahahahahaha sorry, but are you under the impression that you'll have LESS expenses after getting a degree? You've gotta tell me what student loan program you went through because I got hosed!

I paid cash for my degree thus far. I pay monthly now on my small student loan. I work more than full time, and go to school.

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:53 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:$1,000.00 is a reasonable amount to spend; don't forget the air fare. For longevity, I'd go with the DD. I have had a HARD time getting my labs past 10-11.

What is the life expectancy of a DD? Ive never shipped a pup, i would more than likely road trip to pick it up. Im always down to road trip lol

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:56 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:Sorry, forgot to answer your question... I'd say, depending on the line, anywhere from $1000 to $1300 is a fair price... In Minnesota breeders are required to have some sort of health guarantee... Some do a year, others will go up to 3 years...

Perfect! it seems like i have enough saved up then currently. I like the idea of a health guarantee, but it seems like some of them dont cover a ton

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:03 pm

Sharon wrote:
Minneguy wrote:.................... Does spending more ensure better health? ................

.............I am looking to save $2500. so i can cover all unexpected costs of my next hunting buddy. quote]
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

No exact answers for theses questions.

A well bred pup that has a health clearance from common diseases for that breed , going back at least 5 years , will cost $1000.00 + depending on your country. No promises the dog will be healthy all its life.

$2500. will not cover all unexpected costs of your "next hunting buddy".
One emergency can cost that much.
I'm up to $1000.00 this week as a result of my dog stepping on a wasp nest.
3 years ago , knee surgery cost $3500.00
YOu can put your dog down if you don't have the money but pretty hard to do with a great ,young hunting dog, who simply needs a new knee.

Dog insurance is an option for emergencies. $100.00 a month covers most everything except flea/tick control/ heartworm meds.

15 years of dog care is not cheap.

PS
Also consider the fact that you can't be at school all day and leave a pup in a crate for 10 hours.With a pup in a crate in an apt., you need to come home at lunch or pay someone to come in at lunch. A sporting breed also needs LOTS of your time for exercise- and not a walk around the block.

Not trying to discourage you , but I believe folks need all the facts before making a "dog decision".

Thanks ! I have never considered pet insurance, but that may just be a good idea! Believe it or not, being a non traditional (not on campus) college student has its major advantages. Im very fortunate that my line of work allows me to be home a lot, so i am very certain of my ability to keep a pup happy. My dogs are all crate trained but are never forced to be in them long.
Also, please trust me - i have no trouble exercising my dogs enough. my dogs don't just get a walk around the block, they get wore out daily and have plenty of socialization. As i said in my other thread, pup is on hold for now, but i'm doing my research so i can have everything laid out.

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:15 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:Hahahahahaha sorry, but are you under the impression that you'll have LESS expenses after getting a degree? You've gotta tell me what student loan program you went through because I got hosed!

The one positive of having a "school of hard knocks " father, is that i learned to dig deep and climb like heck. My expenses will be roughly the same. But instead of having to sit in class multiple days a week, i can use those opportunities to make money, instead of spending it on a piece of paper.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:26 pm

I'm going to say something that I mean in the most respectful way possible (the tone can be lost online)... You just need to make a decision now. I know you've been debating on the type of dog (pointer, spaniel, or retriever) and the breed... And I'm assuming you've done your research, including research on yourself and whether your life can handle a pup... Now you just need to make up your mind about what you want and when... You're from Minnesota, so am I, and I keep an eye on a few different breeders, plus know some... If you still need help finding a breeder, PM me... But my guess is that you've researched that too....

Point is, if you're gonna get in the water, dive in buddy, after that you just enjoy the water.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:05 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:I'm going to say something that I mean in the most respectful way possible (the tone can be lost online)... You just need to make a decision now. I know you've been debating on the type of dog (pointer, spaniel, or retriever) and the breed... And I'm assuming you've done your research, including research on yourself and whether your life can handle a pup... Now you just need to make up your mind about what you want and when... You're from Minnesota, so am I, and I keep an eye on a few different breeders, plus know some... If you still need help finding a breeder, PM me... But my guess is that you've researched that too....

Point is, if you're gonna get in the water, dive in buddy, after that you just enjoy the water.

Before you just dive in it is great to see you checking out how deep the water is. In your position there is no hurry and many times while you are waiting something good will fall into your lap. Choose what you like but also be flexible enough to be able to do something different if an opportunity presents it self. All of the breeds are pretty darn good so don't completely discount any of them.

Ezzy

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:37 pm

Minneguy wrote:
Sharon wrote:
Minneguy wrote:.................... Does spending more ensure better health? ................

.............I am looking to save $2500. so i can cover all unexpected costs of my next hunting buddy. quote]
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

No exact answers for theses questions.

A well bred pup that has a health clearance from common diseases for that breed , going back at least 5 years , will cost $1000.00 + depending on your country. No promises the dog will be healthy all its life.

$2500. will not cover all unexpected costs of your "next hunting buddy".
One emergency can cost that much.
I'm up to $1000.00 this week as a result of my dog stepping on a wasp nest.
3 years ago , knee surgery cost $3500.00
YOu can put your dog down if you don't have the money but pretty hard to do with a great ,young hunting dog, who simply needs a new knee.

Dog insurance is an option for emergencies. $100.00 a month covers most everything except flea/tick control/ heartworm meds.

15 years of dog care is not cheap.

PS
Also consider the fact that you can't be at school all day and leave a pup in a crate for 10 hours.With a pup in a crate in an apt., you need to come home at lunch or pay someone to come in at lunch. A sporting breed also needs LOTS of your time for exercise- and not a walk around the block.

Not trying to discourage you , but I believe folks need all the facts before making a "dog decision".
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Thanks ! I have never considered pet insurance, but that may just be a good idea! Believe it or not, being a non traditional (not on campus) college student has its major advantages. Im very fortunate that my line of work allows me to be home a lot, so i am very certain of my ability to keep a pup happy. My dogs are all crate trained but are never forced to be in them long.
Also, please trust me - i have no trouble exercising my dogs enough. my dogs don't just get a walk around the block, they get wore out daily and have plenty of socialization. As i said in my other thread, pup is on hold for now, but i'm doing my research so i can have everything laid out.

Minneguy

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Sorry. I thought this was your first dog.

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:45 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:I'm going to say something that I mean in the most respectful way possible (the tone can be lost online)... You just need to make a decision now. I know you've been debating on the type of dog (pointer, spaniel, or retriever) and the breed... And I'm assuming you've done your research, including research on yourself and whether your life can handle a pup... Now you just need to make up your mind about what you want and when... You're from Minnesota, so am I, and I keep an eye on a few different breeders, plus know some... If you still need help finding a breeder, PM me... But my guess is that you've researched that too....

Point is, if you're gonna get in the water, dive in buddy, after that you just enjoy the water.

Before you just dive in it is great to see you checking out how deep the water is. In your position there is no hurry and many times while you are waiting something good will fall into your lap. Choose what you like but also be flexible enough to be able to do something different if an opportunity presents it self. All of the breeds are pretty darn good so don't completely discount any of them.

Ezzy

Thanks Ezzy! Im just trying to make the right choice. Since i have a little time to think it over, i might as well!
Ill keep an open mind. Who knows, a poodle might just tickle my fancy......... Lol

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:46 pm

Sharon wrote:
Minneguy wrote:
Sharon wrote:
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Thanks ! I have never considered pet insurance, but that may just be a good idea! Believe it or not, being a non traditional (not on campus) college student has its major advantages. Im very fortunate that my line of work allows me to be home a lot, so i am very certain of my ability to keep a pup happy. My dogs are all crate trained but are never forced to be in them long.
Also, please trust me - i have no trouble exercising my dogs enough. my dogs don't just get a walk around the block, they get wore out daily and have plenty of socialization. As i said in my other thread, pup is on hold for now, but i'm doing my research so i can have everything laid out.
Minneguy

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Sorry. I thought this was your first dog.

No worries Sharon! You do have great advice for a first time owner!

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:48 pm

Be aware that no matter how good the guarantee is the breeder is only going to reimburse for you the cost of the puppy or replace the puppy. He is not going to pay thousands in vet bills, plus most young dogs vet bills are from acquired illnesses or accident. Neither of which will likely be covered. Two year guarantees against genetic issues are worthless...............................Cj

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:34 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:I'm going to say something that I mean in the most respectful way possible (the tone can be lost online)... You just need to make a decision now. I know you've been debating on the type of dog (pointer, spaniel, or retriever) and the breed... And I'm assuming you've done your research, including research on yourself and whether your life can handle a pup... Now you just need to make up your mind about what you want and when... You're from Minnesota, so am I, and I keep an eye on a few different breeders, plus know some... If you still need help finding a breeder, PM me... But my guess is that you've researched that too....

Point is, if you're gonna get in the water, dive in buddy, after that you just enjoy the water.

Before you just dive in it is great to see you checking out how deep the water is. In your position there is no hurry and many times while you are waiting something good will fall into your lap. Choose what you like but also be flexible enough to be able to do something different if an opportunity presents it self. All of the breeds are pretty darn good so don't completely discount any of them.

Ezzy

I think you misinterpreted me Ezzy... I'm not saying he should buy the next puppy he sees... Far from it. I'm saying that if one has all the possible information available, the next step is to make a decision, and then follow through getting exactly what one wants... Yes, you have to be patient sometimes when waiting for that, but you can't do absolutely nothing and expect things to happen....

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:46 pm

You can find very very well bred dogs for well under $1000.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:27 pm

Minneguy wrote:Hey guys! I was womdering What is a reasonable price to pay for a healthy, quality bred lab, or DD? I am still in the market, and it seems like some of the (what i would consider) better breeding programs charge around 1000 for a lab. I have seen 900 as the amount it costs to breed, whelp and vet a decent pup. My biggest concern with buying a hunting buddy is longevity. I want to get the healthiest puppy possible. Does spending more ensure better health? As much as i want the best hunting dog i can get, i would rather have a long living buddy that isn't the best hunter than a hard hunting dog that dies young. I am looking to save 2500 so i can cover all unexpected costs of my next hunting buddy. I am almost there, i have 1800 saved up but will now have to postpone getting my next hunting buddy for a year until my lease is up or possible two ( chose to go back to school and finish my degree with the down payment i had saved up for a house)(wtf was i thinking??!?!?!?) when i will be done with my degree and wont have to worry about renting an apt near school anymore and can finally get into a house. I am still trying to find the right breeder, and figure out which is best for me, but i just wanted to know if 2500 will cover all the costs. How much should i expect to spend on a good healthy pup?

$800 will get you a MH x FC breeding with all the health clearances in MN.

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:56 pm

cjhills wrote:Be aware that no matter how good the guarantee is the breeder is only going to reimburse for you the cost of the puppy or replace the puppy. He is not going to pay thousands in vet bills, plus most young dogs vet bills are from acquired illnesses or accident. Neither of which will likely be covered. Two year guarantees against genetic issues are worthless...............................Cj

My policy covers $8000.00 a year for accident etc.
..............

Sorry I misread your post and can't delete.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:16 pm

I paid £1 for a young dog once (about 75cents in your money at the time) sent her off at the age of 8 to a life of 'Pet family' and boy did she love it for 3 years! God rest her soul. Never cost me a penny (dime) in any vet bills all the time I had her!
Also had a dog that cost me £1,000 (about $1500 ) at that time and numerous vet bills with complications and injuries in training or the field around $2,000 all in at 3 years old ,...sold her at shortly after for nothing to a neighbour who could take her out for a walk and she loved it .

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:32 pm

Sharon wrote:
cjhills wrote:Be aware that no matter how good the guarantee is the breeder is only going to reimburse for you the cost of the puppy or replace the puppy. He is not going to pay thousands in vet bills, plus most young dogs vet bills are from acquired illnesses or accident. Neither of which will likely be covered. Two year guarantees against genetic issues are worthless...............................Cj
My policy covers $8000.00 a year for accident etc.

I don't get what that has to do with my post. Does your breeder pay for your policy Or cover the vet costs up to $8,000 Or what...............Cj

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:05 pm

Sharon wrote:
cjhills wrote:Be aware that no matter how good the guarantee is the breeder is only going to reimburse for you the cost of the puppy or replace the puppy. He is not going to pay thousands in vet bills, plus most young dogs vet bills are from acquired illnesses or accident. Neither of which will likely be covered. Two year guarantees against genetic issues are worthless...............................Cj
My policy covers $8000.00 a year for accident etc.

That sounds like it should cover most anything that comes up

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:08 pm

Nikegundog i was at the game fair today, and it seems like there was some options in the 8-900 range.

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:03 pm

http://prtproducts.com/the-price-of-a-l ... u-pay-for/

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:10 am

gonehuntin' wrote:$1,000.00 is a reasonable amount to spend; don't forget the air fare. For longevity, I'd go with the DD. I have had a HARD time getting my labs past 10-11.

Ditto

mask · Post by **mask** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:53 pm

The price of a pup is the cheapest part of the equation so a few hundred one way or the other really doesn't mean much. Get the pup that suits you and have some fun.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:13 pm

mask wrote:The price of a pup is the cheapest part of the equation so a few hundred one way or the other really doesn't mean much. Get the pup that suits you and have some fun.

A few hundred one way or the other is a huge difference when you don't have it or you have to decide whether to buy food or a pup. Hard to justify a lot of money for a pup when you are young or have a young family. Pups still come in the category of a luxury when there are so many necessities that are needed.

I still find it difficult to ask over 4 to 5 hundred for a pup and have just as much trouble justifying paying more than that.

Ezzy

shags · Post by **shags** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:53 pm

Buying a pup is always a crapshoot.

Cost of a pup depends on different factors. First, the breed; common as dirt breeds can be had a lot cheaper than exotic rare ones. Second, bloodlines; you can expect to pay more for dogs with proven performers in their backgrounds than for a pup from a pairing of the neighbor's unregistered dog to the pooch of the guy three houses down ( unless that pairing results in some exotic,rare puppies

). Third, breeder; if you want health clearances on the parents and guarantees on the pup, the breeder that offers those things is probably going to ask more for a pup than the one who doesn't.

Decide on your breed then keep your eyes and ears open for breeders and litters. Various gundog forums are great sources of information. Remember that a high price guarantees nothing as far as quality and ability; plenty of expensive duds around, as well as outstanding cheapies.

Good luck in your search.

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:05 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
mask wrote:The price of a pup is the cheapest part of the equation so a few hundred one way or the other really doesn't mean much. Get the pup that suits you and have some fun.
A few hundred one way or the other is a huge difference when you don't have it or you have to decide whether to buy food or a pup. Hard to justify a lot of money for a pup when you are young or have a young family. Pups still come in the category of a luxury when there are so many necessities that are needed.

I still find it difficult to ask over 4 to 5 hundred for a pup and have just as much trouble justifying paying more than that.

Ezzy

I agree, I hunted with a guy that spent $1100 on a pup, my GSP that I spent $400 was in a whole different universe ability wise.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:07 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
mask wrote:The price of a pup is the cheapest part of the equation so a few hundred one way or the other really doesn't mean much. Get the pup that suits you and have some fun.
A few hundred one way or the other is a huge difference when you don't have it or you have to decide whether to buy food or a pup. Hard to justify a lot of money for a pup when you are young or have a young family. Pups still come in the category of a luxury when there are so many necessities that are needed.

I still find it difficult to ask over 4 to 5 hundred for a pup and have just as much trouble justifying paying more than that.

Ezzy

If you don't have that money, should you really be buying a puppy? I mean, if you can't save up an extra $300 in a few months how can you be prepared for the other costs, like vaccines, or even dog food? I agree with Mask, the upfront cost of a puppy is the cheapest and if you're unable to pay that, you better have a good plan for the other costs.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:26 am

ezzy333 wrote:
mask wrote:The price of a pup is the cheapest part of the equation so a few hundred one way or the other really doesn't mean much. Get the pup that suits you and have some fun.
A few hundred one way or the other is a huge difference when you don't have it or you have to decide whether to buy food or a pup. Hard to justify a lot of money for a pup when you are young or have a young family. Pups still come in the category of a luxury when there are so many necessities that are needed.

I still find it difficult to ask over 4 to 5 hundred for a pup and have just as much trouble justifying paying more than that.

Ezzy

If you need to decide to buy a puppy or feed your family, You probably should feed your family. If you are selling $400 or $500 puppies you probably are not doing any health tests or much else in the way of testing your breeding stock. You will probably not be doing it for long when you learn about all the things which can go wrong. In todays economy spending $800 on a pup is a smaller percent of the average income than spending $500 was 15 yrs. ago. Most young families today live in a far different financial world than we did.
I too, have a hard time pricing my puppies as high as they need to be to show a profit, but I find that the buyers have no problem with the price and expect to pay it. My vet, the dog food companies and the many other people I have to deal with have no problem pricing their product where it needs to be. We put a lot time and planning into our puppies.
I do not sell puppies at Game Fair because I do not like impulse buyers, but many breeders do. Lab puppies go from $400 to $1500, you take your chances on quality,disease and parisites. You can buy bargain puppies. Some turn out very good, the biggest problem is health issues, the odds favor having a breeder on your side who has done his home work and will work with you if things go wrong ..............................Cj

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:00 am

It just bothers me to hear all the people who hate to say the real truth as is. There is always an exception to a rule but ask any lab trainer what they'd rather have come into their program, a dog from a proven bloodline ( the 1000$ pup) or the backyard bred pup. Guaranteed they'd prefer the more expensive one because the vast majority of the time they are far superior. They learn faster, drive harder, handle pressure better. Sure you may get lucky, but you will most likely get exactly what you pay for. If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't be a market for well bred dogs, and you wouldn't see mike lardy or Danny farmer, etc selecting perfect pedigreed dogs. There is a difference. People don't want to hear it or don't want to say it, but we all know its true.

Everyone wants to believe their dog is "super smart, tons of drive" etc, we see it nearly daily with every new users post. well how many of those people have seen what a that truly means, and how many have seen what a true quality retriever is? Very very few. A "smart dog" to most people is one who has done basic obedience or has a decent retrieve, but they have no concept of a 300 yard mark or a complex blind, a dog that handles suction well or understands poison birds, etc? I for one barely know about those things but I've seen dogs that perform at those levels, and the VAST majority come from high quality bloodlines and I guarantee the labs I see on the street don't have the drive or ability to do that. It'd be hard enough to get one to swim by or to do doubles.

There is a difference.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:26 am

Bluesky2012 wrote:It just bothers me to hear all the people who hate to say the real truth as is. There is always an exception to a rule but ask any lab trainer what they'd rather have come into their program, a dog from a proven bloodline ( the 1000$ pup) or the backyard bred pup. Guaranteed they'd prefer the more expensive one because the vast majority of the time they are far superior. They learn faster, drive harder, handle pressure better. Sure you may get lucky, but you will most likely get exactly what you pay for. If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't be a market for well bred dogs, and you wouldn't see mike lardy or Danny farmer, etc selecting perfect pedigreed dogs. There is a difference. People don't want to hear it or don't want to say it, but we all know its true.

Everyone wants to believe their dog is "super smart, tons of drive" etc, we see it nearly daily with every new users post. well how many of those people have seen what a that truly means, and how many have seen what a true quality retriever is? Very very few. A "smart dog" to most people is one who has done basic obedience or has a decent retrieve, but they have no concept of a 300 yard mark or a complex blind, a dog that handles suction well or understands poison birds, etc? I for one barely know about those things but I've seen dogs that perform at those levels, and the VAST majority come from high quality bloodlines and I guarantee the labs I see on the street don't have the drive or ability to do that. It'd be hard enough to get one to swim by or to do doubles.

There is a difference.

The truth is if I wanted a trial Lab I would probably spend the 1500 for a trial bred Lab. If I wanted a good hunting Lab I would not even consider spending that kind of money for a trial dog. It seems it comes back to the people who trial thinking trials is what it takes to prove a dog is good. I think it takes trials to prove a dog is a good trial dog but I will look for my hunting pup from people who hunt and there are many local people with excellent hunting dogs that have never heard of a trial.

It just makes sense to me to look in the arena that you want to participate in if you want to find a pup that will fulfill your needs and desires. Looking some place else just opens up more possibilities of getting something you don't want. Price has nothing to do with it other than some think their pups are worth more and they ask what think is fair. That to me sounds like free enterprise and I think that is the way it should be but I do not equate price to quality in all circumstances.

JMO
Ezzy

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:10 pm

It is really not about trial dogs or anything it is more about breeding your pretty good dog with the neighbor's pretty good dog, with no health tests and little or no knowledge of what a good dog is. It is also about breeders taking advantage of impulse buyers who like the cute little puppy. If your $400 dollar puppy has health issues or any other issues you will be out your money and have nothing. I have had to take back two puppies simply because the buyer screwed them up. Both turn out to be good well adjusted dogs. I do not have a problem with that but you probably will not get that on a low end puppy.
We think our service is well worth the money.............................Cj

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:48 pm

cjhills wrote:It is really not about trial dogs or anything it is more about breeding your pretty good dog with the neighbor's pretty good dog, with no health tests and little or no knowledge of what a good dog is. It is also about breeders taking advantage of impulse buyers who like the cute little puppy. If your $400 dollar puppy has health issues or any other issues you will be out your money and have nothing. I have had to take back two puppies simply because the buyer screwed them up. Both turn out to be good well adjusted dogs. I do not have a problem with that but you probably will not get that on a low end puppy.
We think our service is well worth the money.............................Cj

I understand what you are saying but you just called every pup I have ever bought or sold a questionable pup. I admit I have no contract but every one that buys a pup knows it is guaranteed they can return it for any reason and get there money back. And our dogs all have their health checked and certified. And they are out of some of the best breeding in the country as far as I am concerned. I do know you can run into problems but price is not the determining factor as to which pups will have issues.

I am not trying to indicate in any way that higher priced pups do not have more information about their background than the lower priced ones but if they are locally bred and you know the dogs they are out of and those dogs are what you want your pup to turn into then there probably is no better place to spend your money than at home. If you don't have first hand info them the pedigree, trials and tests can give you an indication as what you are buying.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:39 pm

The greatest trial dogs make the greatest gun dogs for hunting or for trial dogs. They are just plain, superior animals. When I was a pro, I loathed and dreaded the dogs that came in from bloodlines lacking hunting breeding or the dreaded $50.00 newspaper puppy. Sometimes they are horrible and sometimes marginal, rarely good.

When you figure the cost of the price of a pup broken down over 12-15 years, you're paying $100.00 max per year for the privilege of hunting over that magnificent animal. I think it's worth it.

I thrive on and live for a GREAT DOG. I also know that my best chance of getting ONE MORE GREAT DOG before they plant me is to spend every cent I can on the greatest breeding I can find, then to train the dog, then to expose the dog to all the birds possible. To me the price is worth the chance for that LAST GREAT DOG. I don't do well with mediocracy.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:41 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
cjhills wrote:It is really not about trial dogs or anything it is more about breeding your pretty good dog with the neighbor's pretty good dog, with no health tests and little or no knowledge of what a good dog is. It is also about breeders taking advantage of impulse buyers who like the cute little puppy. If your $400 dollar puppy has health issues or any other issues you will be out your money and have nothing. I have had to take back two puppies simply because the buyer screwed them up. Both turn out to be good well adjusted dogs. I do not have a problem with that but you probably will not get that on a low end puppy.
We think our service is well worth the money.............................Cj
I understand what you are saying but you just called every pup I have ever bought or sold a questionable pup. I admit I have no contract but every one that buys a pup knows it is guaranteed they can return it for any reason and get there money back. And our dogs all have their health checked and certified. And they are out of some of the best breeding in the country as far as I am concerned. I do know you can run into problems but price is not the determining factor as to which pups will have issues.

I am not trying to indicate in any way that higher priced pups do not have more information about their background than the lower priced ones but if they are locally bred and you know the dogs they are out of and those dogs are what you want your pup to turn into then there probably is no better place to spend your money than at home. If you don't have first hand info them the pedigree, trials and tests can give you an indication as what you are buying.

What you say may be true but you are very likely the exception in todays economy. I'm talking of people who sell puppies in parking lots and roadsides. when these puppies get sick from parvo or whatever you are on your own. very few people who do health tests on their breeding stock can afford to sell $400 puppies or have the need to. I also do not say you for sure get a better pup by paying more but the odds greatly favor it...................Cj

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:55 pm

I thrive on and live for a GREAT DOG. I also know that my best chance of getting ONE MORE GREAT DOG before they plant me is to spend every cent I can on the greatest breeding I can find, then to train the dog, then to expose the dog to all the birds possible. To me the price is worth the chance for that LAST GREAT DOG. I don't do well with mediocracy.

Amen, brother...
And, I wish you that last great hound!!!

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:57 pm

I think $800-$1200 is pretty common for most high caliber gun dog puppies. Higher if you get a started dog. I personally wouldn't think too hard about the cost of the pup - it's pretty insignificant compared to all the other costs of owning a dog (not to mention training, hunting and/or trialing/testing a dog).

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:20 pm

[quote="Sharon"][quote="Minneguy"].................... Does spending more ensure better health? ................

"Dog insurance is an option for emergencies. $100.00 a month covers most everything except flea/tick control/ heartworm meds.

15 years of dog care is not cheap"

I would shop for a new deal. I pay less than $32 per month per dog and It includes prescription meds with a $500 deductible and 90% re-imbursement.

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:15 pm

[/quote]

I do not sell puppies at Game Fair because I do not like impulse buyers, but many breeders do. Cj[/quote]

lol hey, that's why I left my wallet in the truck. A little wiggly black lab is a cute little impulse buy waiting to happen. I'll admit it, If I didn't plan ahead I could easily have been one of them. Fortunately, I wanted to go to Gamefair to talk to breeders and do my research.
I feel good that the puppies at game fair find homes, but I always wonder how many end up in good homes.

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:33 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:The greatest trial dogs make the greatest gun dogs for hunting or for trial dogs. They are just plain, superior animals. When I was a pro, I loathed and dreaded the dogs that came in from bloodlines lacking hunting breeding or the dreaded $50.00 newspaper puppy. Sometimes they are horrible and sometimes marginal, rarely good.

When you figure the cost of the price of a pup broken down over 12-15 years, you're paying $100.00 max per year for the privilege of hunting over that magnificent animal. I think it's worth it.

I thrive on and live for a GREAT DOG. I also know that my best chance of getting ONE MORE GREAT DOG before they plant me is to spend every cent I can on the greatest breeding I can find, then to train the dog, then to expose the dog to all the birds possible. To me the price is worth the chance for that LAST GREAT DOG. I don't do well with mediocracy.

Honestly, my mind has completely changed on this. I have always said "papers don't matter". Now the more I learn, I'm starting to loathe unplanned, or should I say irresponsible breeding. I really hate that people just breed dogs to breed dogs. Not necessarily because of hunting ability. But because of the health issues that can come up. I lost my hunting buddy and best friend at 6 years, because the people who bred her didn't know that there was a congenital heart defect in her family tree. Her mom died at 7, her grandma at 6, and some of her siblings At 5-6. When I found this out, I was crushed. If someone is responsible breeding decent, or average hunting dogs, I'm all for that, because they fit the need of most people pretty well.

I also don't think that a 1,000 + puppy is right for everyone.
Plenty of guys have a dog that can retrieve a duck ok most of the time, and that is awesome that their hunting buddy makes them happy.
In my experience, most people will never train their dogs past 1% of their potential, so having a high caliber dog doesn't really make sense, but I've made the choice to give my future hunting buddy and myself the best chance for health and success.
Now honestly, I'm not worried about doing a 300 yard mark or some other long distance blind, because I don't plan on doing hunt tests or field trials. I just want an good dog, that stays calm in the duck boat, with good drive that cuddles up on the bed after spending the day hunting. I also want that dog to be with me for 10+ years and still be able to walk. That means I need clearances. To some people, this is less important, but I can't ever lose another dog like peaches after only 6 years. It will put me in the grave. The clearances just give me peace of mind.

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:36 pm

QuillGordon wrote:
I thrive on and live for a GREAT DOG. I also know that my best chance of getting ONE MORE GREAT DOG before they plant me is to spend every cent I can on the greatest breeding I can find, then to train the dog, then to expose the dog to all the birds possible. To me the price is worth the chance for that LAST GREAT DOG. I don't do well with mediocracy.
Amen, brother...
And, I wish you that last great hound!!!

No kidding, I hope you find the one! When you do, take me hunting and I'll buy the shells!

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:40 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
cjhills wrote:It is really not about trial dogs or anything it is more about breeding your pretty good dog with the neighbor's pretty good dog, with no health tests and little or no knowledge of what a good dog is. It is also about breeders taking advantage of impulse buyers who like the cute little puppy. If your $400 dollar puppy has health issues or any other issues you will be out your money and have nothing. I have had to take back two puppies simply because the buyer screwed them up. Both turn out to be good well adjusted dogs. I do not have a problem with that but you probably will not get that on a low end puppy.
We think our service is well worth the money.............................Cj
I understand what you are saying but you just called every pup I have ever bought or sold a questionable pup. I admit I have no contract but every one that buys a pup knows it is guaranteed they can return it for any reason and get there money back. And our dogs all have their health checked and certified. And they are out of some of the best breeding in the country as far as I am concerned. I do know you can run into problems but price is not the determining factor as to which pups will have issues.

I am not trying to indicate in any way that higher priced pups do not have more information about their background than the lower priced ones but if they are locally bred and you know the dogs they are out of and those dogs are what you want your pup to turn into then there probably is no better place to spend your money than at home. If you don't have first hand info them the pedigree, trials and tests can give you an indication as what you are buying.

See, even though you aren't what I would call a high end breeder, I respect that you admit it, and agree with you about the i importance of knowing the parents. I also really respect that you guarantee your puppies.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:49 am

Minneguy:
Health clearances improve your odds but they are not guarantees of longevity. If you can't deal with losing another dog at six years best that you do not get another dog. ..........................Cj

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:21 am

cjhills is right... My last dog was 12 when he passed but it wasn't old age... He could definitely still hunt 'em up... It was a sudden injury that took him. It happens sometimes...

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:15 am

I know guys, but 6 years is too d@mn short. Her and I should still be hunting.
Granted 20 years would probably still be too short.
I've lost dogs before and you do eventually get over it, but I'd rather not lose another one young.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:38 am

You just never know with these dogs. About ten years ago, I had a great setter. He was 12 and could run with any five year old, kept totally vaccinated. He drank some bad water grouse hunting and got Lepto. Ends up there are a slew of different Lepto's and you can only vaccinate for a few of them. He lasted less than a year.

For three out of four years in SD I've ended up with $2-$300.00 vet bills from tangles with hidden barb wire. Two years ago she injured a shoulder taking a header at full speed in a badger hold.

These valued dogs of ours, they live a very dangerous and precarious existance. We have to enjoy them fully for the few short years God lets us be their keepers.

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:18 am

So true . Add in there having a dog stolen;