Scent discrimination

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:03 pm

So guys and gals, i have another question. Do you teach your bird dogs scent discrimination? I can see it being useful, but i have a minor problem with it. I love to hunt birds, but when there are no birds (quite often around where i hunt) i have been known to gun down some bunnies to fill the stew pot, and i have done it in the past with my lab. Now, from what i understand, many pure bird hunters dont want their bird dogs working trash like rabbits, and some of them break them from tracking them down. Personally, i dont know it i want to teach my dog to stay off rabits, but i was wondering how it works to train them to discern which game animal we are after and if their behavior changes. I also was wondering if a pointing dog would change the distance it would point based on the birds (ie grouse that hate to be pushed, vs thick cover pheasants that might just hold)
Thanks again guys

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:40 am

That might b\e kind of hard. Most the people I've known over the years, call their dogs off rabbits. I was hunting with a German guy years ago and he shot a rabbit for my EP. They do that in Germany. The only reason we don't do it here is local custom. If you want to shoot rabbit's, shoot rabbits!

CCBIRDDOGMAN · Post by **CCBIRDDOGMAN** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:15 am

If you only have one or maybe two dogs on the ground and you want to shoot some rabbits, shoot some rabbits just be sure you know where your dogs are. I am usually running at least 3 dogs at a time (sometimes four) and just don't want to take a chance on a dog getting shot, so anytime I am hunting with someone new, that is the first rule I make clear, no shooting at anything on the ground. It's just too easy to get caught up in the moment and make a mistake. My buddies Grandfather killed on of his English Setters shooting at a rabbit (Rabbit was at top of a slight hill & dog was just over the other side, he never saw his dog, just heard a yelp and went over to get rabbit and found his dog dead, one pellet hole in it's eye) took him several years to want to get back into Quail hunting after that.

reba · Post by **reba** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:04 pm

Please don't ground shoot anything around my dogs.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:40 pm

Most versatile dog's point rabbits. OK with me.

Windyhills · Post by **Windyhills** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:48 pm

Gun dog noses are far more capable than think--and I think to an extent the usual advice holds--that exposure and training when young can really help get across what we desire.

The problem I have with fur is the difficulty in turning that off.

I'm not sure I did a thing to encourage my two GSP's to chase bunnies but it's something that has not been possible to train out completely. Bunnies are usually just an annoyance though--I really don't want my dog distracted by skunks, cats, coons, etc. when bird hunting. And I don't want the hassle of other complications t (injuries, the real possibility of wild critter disease transmission or exposure) either. I have seen more than a few dog owners pull their hair out over dogs that are constantly getting into trouble with fur while bird hunting.

That's my take, I know not everyone will agree.

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:03 pm

If you aren't finding birds, then rabbits are fine to shoot. If you are on birds, I doubt your dog will pass one up for a rabbit.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:22 pm

Shoot whatever you want over your dog (legally). If your obedience training is up to par you can call your dog off other things. Just don't shoot your dog! But I doubt that has to be said.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:28 pm

Shoot things you want to hunt - the dog will figure out the rest. My dog focuses on grouse and woodcock but that's not to say he won't flush rabbits for me. I have never trained on rabbits - just shot one when he flushed it once so he knows they're fair game. They're smart - they will know what to do. Shoot what you want it to hunt, don't shoot what you don't want. Simple.

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:04 pm

reba wrote:Please don't ground shoot anything around my dogs.

Hey, no worries. I wouldn't ground shoot anything over anybody else's dogs. Too much to go wrong. I got comfortable doing it with my old lab, she would find the rabbit, stop like she was pointing, and she would sit to flush. She learned to sit to flush because I wouldn't shoot when she would follow the rabbit.
That's one reason I think a dog that points, or at least sits to flush would be the best bet.

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:06 pm

CCBIRDDOGMAN wrote:If you only have one or maybe two dogs on the ground and you want to shoot some rabbits, shoot some rabbits just be sure you know where your dogs are. I am usually running at least 3 dogs at a time (sometimes four) and just don't want to take a chance on a dog getting shot, so anytime I am hunting with someone new, that is the first rule I make clear, no shooting at anything on the ground. It's just too easy to get caught up in the moment and make a mistake. My buddies Grandfather killed on of his English Setters shooting at a rabbit (Rabbit was at top of a slight hill & dog was just over the other side, he never saw his dog, just heard a yelp and went over to get rabbit and found his dog dead, one pellet hole in it's eye) took him several years to want to get back into Quail hunting after that.

Oh man, that's rough! I can see why he quit hunting for a while. That's one reason I won't shoot anything on the ground unless I know for a fact the dog isn't around. I've passed up tons of bunnies because of this.

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:09 pm

Windyhills wrote:Gun dog noses are far more capable than think--and I think to an extent the usual advice holds--that exposure and training when young can really help get across what we desire.

The problem I have with fur is the difficulty in turning that off.

I'm not sure I did a thing to encourage my two GSP's to chase bunnies but it's something that has not been possible to train out completely. Bunnies are usually just an annoyance though--I really don't want my dog distracted by skunks, cats, coons, etc. when bird hunting. And I don't want the hassle of other complications t (injuries, the real possibility of wild critter disease transmission or exposure) either. I have seen more than a few dog owners pull their hair out over dogs that are constantly getting into trouble with fur while bird hunting.

That's my take, I know not everyone will agree.

That's a fair point. I don't run into porcupines, and I've been lucky to avoid most skunks, but I can see why you would want to avoid all of that. My old lab got sprayed once, then left all skunks alone forever. And when we were looking for wild pheasant, she would ignore mice and things and just go for birds. She also acted different on a rabbit than on a bird so I could usually tell. Man I miss that girl

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:10 pm

Bluesky2012 wrote:If you aren't finding birds, then rabbits are fine to shoot. If you are on birds, I doubt your dog will pass one up for a rabbit.

That's what I was thinking. Especially if rabbits aren't introduced until they've had a few years of good bird hunting.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:39 am

Minneguy wrote:
reba wrote:Please don't ground shoot anything around my dogs.
Hey, no worries. I wouldn't ground shoot anything over anybody else's dogs. Too much to go wrong. I got comfortable doing it with my old lab, she would find the rabbit, stop like she was pointing, and she would sit to flush. She learned to sit to flush because I wouldn't shoot when she would follow the rabbit.
That's one reason I think a dog that points, or at least sits to flush would be the best bet.

Just to be clear, when you say 'sit to flush' you're referring to a dog that is steady to flush right? Because being steady is trained, it's not an instinct... In fact being steady flies in the face of all their instincts (yes, the pun was intended).

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:05 am

mnaj_springer wrote:
Minneguy wrote:
reba wrote:Please don't ground shoot anything around my dogs.
Hey, no worries. I wouldn't ground shoot anything over anybody else's dogs. Too much to go wrong. I got comfortable doing it with my old lab, she would find the rabbit, stop like she was pointing, and she would sit to flush. She learned to sit to flush because I wouldn't shoot when she would follow the rabbit.
That's one reason I think a dog that points, or at least sits to flush would be the best bet.
Just to be clear, when you say 'sit to flush' you're referring to a dog that is steady to flush right? Because being steady is trained, it's not an instinct... In fact being steady flies in the face of all their instincts (yes, the pun was intended).

Yeah, she had learned by the time she was 3 that if she kicked up a rabbit, she would hunker down and freeze and let it run so I could shoot. I think she eventually got that when she didn't chase them, she got to pick them up. I never trained her directly to do this other than once or twice on a check chord. She just picked it up. Keep in mind, I probably shot more rabbits coming our of brush piles over her than I did birds (except geese). After the shot she was on it, so you only got 1. I don't recall a single pheasant ever shot over her so i don't know how she would have acted flushing a pheasant. Now with crippled ducks and geese she was on runners hard charging. That's part of what makes me believe it's possible to do both

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:26 am

What I'm saying is whatever dog you get, whatever you hunt, being steady is learned... So you'll have to teach it somehow.

Minneguy · Post by **Minneguy** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:56 am

mnaj_springer wrote:What I'm saying is whatever dog you get, whatever you hunt, being steady is learned... So you'll have to teach it somehow.

I get ya. I was on a different wave length lol

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