AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by Nutmeg247 » Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:02 am

The underlying study can be found here, http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0102722 , since someone had said they were looking for it.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by Neil » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:07 pm

Nutmeg247 wrote:The underlying study can be found here, http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0102722 , since someone had said they were looking for it.
Thank you.

It is a better study than as reported by the press, who apparently only read the Conclusion, which bears little resemblance to the study and is clearly biased. I urge everyone to read the study.

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AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by Luminary Setters » Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:09 pm


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AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by Luminary Setters » Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:18 pm

Brazo, not paranoid, just a realist. How many of the undecided 47 million viewers had warm fuzzy feelings after that interview. And anyone out there that thinks there isn't a movement out there to ban collars and hunting for that matter, think again.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by chrokeva » Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:31 pm

I agree this is not paranoia. I live in the bay area of California and believe me when I say I have to be very careful regarding training my hunting dog. The looks I get when I explain that I will be hunting her are quite disturbing.
Last week (before the AKC news story broke) I was out for a walk with a friend when the subject of e-collars came up. The first thing out of her mouth was "I think they should be ban, they are cruel"....I went on to explain that in the right hands they were a good training tool but I rather doubt I got anywhere in convincing her of this. My point is that the general public is aware of them and opinions are being formed (even without AKC opening there big mouth). Now granted I am probably in the most liberal place in the US so no doubt worse here than anywhere but I still believe that the use of e-collars is under the radar of many.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:35 pm

Mentioning the AKC with Anti Hunting groups is just that, PARANOID. It certainly is not "realistic".

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by rinker » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:19 pm

A week ago I would not have 'realistically' thought that the AKC would put a representative on a national news show to explain that ecollars are bad.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by Neil » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:25 pm

Nearly every AKC employee I have encountered were non-hunters, knowing where and how they recruit I think it more than reasonable that a good number are opposed to hunting, and some of those actively anti-hunting.

I will bet a good pocket knife that the VP representing AKC on Fox has never held a gun and if not anti-hunting, would never fight for us.

My assumptions are based on some experience. Remember paranoids have enemies that are out to get them.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by jiml » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:37 pm

Funny thing not being mentioned is that the food trained group (c) showed more whining (begging) and the highest cortisol (stress) levels

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by chrokeva » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:41 pm


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AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by Luminary Setters » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:47 pm

Brazo, obviously I'm doing a poor communicating, because that was not the association I was trying to convey.

I will try to clarify...

Years back people warned that one day we would have to fight, and fight hard, to keep our right to keep and bare arms. Those people were called paranoid. Then later I heard a few people warn that we will have to fight to keep our freedoms to hunt. Those people were called paranoid. A few of these paranoids formed organizations and watch groups to keep other paranoids and conspiracy theorists informed and lobby on their behalf.


The inference was that there are groups out there working against many of the individual facets that make upland bird hunting and gun dog sports. Those that don't believe these movements exist are either in denial or have their head in the sand.

Knowing that only one executive officer in the Manhattan office is opposed to e-collar use makes me feel much better.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by jiml » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:55 pm

chrokeva wrote:Here is a follow up story
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/debate-surg ... ollar-use/

not a follow up that was a couple days before the fox interview

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by chrokeva » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:57 pm

jiml wrote:
chrokeva wrote:Here is a follow up story
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/debate-surg ... ollar-use/

not a follow up that was a couple days before the fox interview

ahhh you are right my apologies.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by JuliaH » Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:02 pm

Well said Luminary, and 100% correct!! I am not sure that only 1 is opposed to e-collar use...

Luminary Setters wrote:Brazo, obviously I'm doing a poor communicating, because that was not the association I was trying to convey.

I will try to clarify...

Years back people warned that one day we would have to fight, and fight hard, to keep our right to keep and bare arms. Those people were called paranoid. Then later I heard a few people warn that we will have to fight to keep our freedoms to hunt. Those people were called paranoid. A few of these paranoids formed organizations and watch groups to keep other paranoids and conspiracy theorists informed and lobby on their behalf.


The inference was that there are groups out there working against many of the individual facets that make upland bird hunting and gun dog sports. Those that don't believe these movements exist are either in denial or have their head in the sand.

Knowing that only one executive officer in the Manhattan office is opposed to e-collar use makes me feel much better.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by shets114 » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:06 pm

Brazo. Not to long ago in PA there was a movement against Puppy Mills. There were already sufficient regulations to take care of any issues they were looking to control. Instead of upholding the current regulations, they rewrote the entire canine bill to suit them. AKC and many other groups did very little to fight against it with the opinion that is what just to take care of those Puppy Mills. When I would speak to sporting groups about changes coming everyone had the opinion that it wouldn't affect them so they were concerned. Anyone that has a licensed kennel in PA can attest to the costs and pain it caused. It was like Obama care, most didn't know what was contained until after the laws were written. When they started enforcing the laws every one opened their eyes to reality. Most licensed kennels had to make changes of some kind. After thousands of dollars of upgrades and incessant harassment to conform, many went out of business. Yes it took care of the breeders but it also cost many boarding and training kennels hundreds and thousands of dollars.
Excuse us for being a little paranoid but in this day and age of taking more and more, we need to nip these things in the bud and stop it before it starts.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:29 am

I guess I must have bigger issues to worry about. Like trimming nails, cleaning kennels and conditioning.

I will continue conditioning a young dog this morning to the ecollar without any help from the AKC or any other group and I cant even see how they could possibly influence that.

Sorry, but paranoid is the proper word here. I will say it again, the average dog owner probably has no use with ecollars so why does it come as such a shock that a group that caters to the average owner comes out with such a statement?

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by JuliaH » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:38 am

The average owner is not really the group paying the bills either. It's hard enough to get the pet owner to even complete registrations when they purchase a pup from a breeder. The breeders, the trainers and handlers, the people who compete in whatever venue, etc. are the people they are hurting, and these are the folks that are paying for services. I can think of 3 groups at least in the dog groups AKC has that have been hurt by this idiotic interview.

Julia

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:I guess I must have bigger issues to worry about. Like trimming nails, cleaning kennels and conditioning.

I will continue conditioning a young dog this morning to the ecollar without any help from the AKC or any other group and I cant even see how they could possibly influence that.

Sorry, but paranoid is the proper word here. I will say it again, the average dog owner probably has no use with ecollars so why does it come as such a shock that a group that caters to the average owner comes out with such a statement?

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:11 am

JuliaH wrote:The average owner is not really the group paying the bills either. It's hard enough to get the pet owner to even complete registrations when they purchase a pup from a breeder. The breeders, the trainers and handlers, the people who compete in whatever venue, etc. are the people they are hurting, and these are the folks that are paying for services. I can think of 3 groups at least in the dog groups AKC has that have been hurt by this idiotic interview.

Julia

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:I guess I must have bigger issues to worry about. Like trimming nails, cleaning kennels and conditioning.

I will continue conditioning a young dog this morning to the ecollar without any help from the AKC or any other group and I cant even see how they could possibly influence that.

Sorry, but paranoid is the proper word here. I will say it again, the average dog owner probably has no use with ecollars so why does it come as such a shock that a group that caters to the average owner comes out with such a statement?
Maybe you could enlighten me how this interview hurts me as I stated, I will continue to train as I always have and will not feel any pressure from this interview. I am not defending it but I don't see how it would affect trainers, breeders or any other serious dog owners.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:32 am

gonehuntin' wrote:So, apparently the AKC would rather have us return to bull whips, lead quirts, electric hotlines, cattle prods, shotguns and ratshot rather than the ecollar. If that misguided organization possible thinks that banning ecollars will stop the complex and extensive training of field trial animals, they are oh, so badly mistaken. Perhaps what they should consider is a ban on all sporting dog trials and tests. That'll teach us.
Its just like the "gun control" issue. It is a training tool that works! It all depends on who is using it. As usual someone wants to "throw the baby out with the bath water". If you are going to abuse a dog there are plenty of ways to do it without using an ecollar.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:34 am

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
JuliaH wrote:The average owner is not really the group paying the bills either. It's hard enough to get the pet owner to even complete registrations when they purchase a pup from a breeder. The breeders, the trainers and handlers, the people who compete in whatever venue, etc. are the people they are hurting, and these are the folks that are paying for services. I can think of 3 groups at least in the dog groups AKC has that have been hurt by this idiotic interview.

Julia

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:I guess I must have bigger issues to worry about. Like trimming nails, cleaning kennels and conditioning.

I will continue conditioning a young dog this morning to the ecollar without any help from the AKC or any other group and I cant even see how they could possibly influence that.

Sorry, but paranoid is the proper word here. I will say it again, the average dog owner probably has no use with ecollars so why does it come as such a shock that a group that caters to the average owner comes out with such a statement?
Maybe you could enlighten me how this interview hurts me as I stated, I will continue to train as I always have and will not feel any pressure from this interview. I am not defending it but I don't see how it would affect trainers, breeders or any other serious dog owners.
Its letting the Head of the Camel into your tent.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by JuliaH » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:35 am

The thing I see is that AKC is moving more and more toward the pet people, and those of us who are participating in events, breeding, etc. are being pushed to the side in the rush to make everyone else happy. No, that interview probably won't do immediate damage, other than being a sore spot. But what about down the road...

I don't know you, but let's pretend you are a pro trainer for the conversation. Someone has just brought you their newest love... a bird dog pup that is the light of their life.... to train. So the conversation begins and you explain how the training is going to go, including the fact that, before you are done, you will move from a simple collar and check cord to an e-collar for correction when the dog is out in the field and understands its basic commands. New puppy owner hugs the pup and runs off in a huff because you might "shock" the dog into submission.

I am no pro. But I have had these conversations with people leaving my place with a new pup. They want to know about training, but they worry about the use of an e-collar (and these conversations began a few years ago). So, I take the time to explain, and if needed, to show them that no one is hurting the dog. Then they are ok with it :) I am retraining a rescue lady right now :)

Julia

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:37 am

AZ, I guess I can respect that thought.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by sdsujacks » Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:06 am

I have an aunt that is big time against E-Collar's. Generally if I am out and about somewhere with my dog I have it on him whether I think I will need to use it or not. Better safe than sorry. I have to be very careful when I am around her, I've tried letting her put it in her wrist to see just how light of stimulation I use, tried explaining that in hunting scenarios it is literally life or death if he were to happen to choose a hen that flies over a nearby highway, that it is an extension of the leash, that I've trained him to it, that I am careful when I actually push the button, or showing her that he literally jumps for joy when I grab the collar to put on him. On the rare occassions that I can temporarily convince her that they are not that bad when used right, then the argument turns to that I have it on too tight and it's choking him... ughh just can't win with those fluffy small dog owners that bark non stop, know no commands, and will bolt out when the front door is opened.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:12 am

chrokeva wrote:Here is a follow up story
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/debate-surg ... ollar-use/

That is as biased as the first report.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by JuliaH » Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:42 pm

Another website that we should be aware of... this topic needs to stay alive and well, and AKC needs to continue to hear from us!

http://www.pettpartnership.com/

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:11 am

This just came in from a pointing dog pro in Kansas.

http://www.pettpartnership.com/

An organization working on our behalf! Its a start!

http://www.pettpartnership.com/

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by shets114 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:24 pm

http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Shock-Co ... zbj65G1mw1

The war on E-Collars continue, Comparing to the Cigarette industry now.

Think this will just go away? Better think again and start working to protect it now.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by Devilscreekw » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:20 am

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but E collars were recently outlawed, along with pet containment collar systems in the province of Quebec Canada.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by JuliaH » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:11 am

AKC is going to meet with the folks from PETT Partnership in December at the Eukanuba Nationals in Florida, so the Conference call in October must have gone well. We need to support PETT Partnership and the companies in it because they sure are getting some folks' attention!!

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by legallyblonde » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:52 am

Devilscreekw wrote:Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but E collars were recently outlawed, along with pet containment collar systems in the province of Quebec Canada.
Not true:

http://pointingdogblog.blogspot.com/201 ... uebec.html

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by Devilscreekw » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:55 am

legallyblonde wrote:
Devilscreekw wrote:Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but E collars were recently outlawed, along with pet containment collar systems in the province of Quebec Canada.
Not true:

http://pointingdogblog.blogspot.com/201 ... uebec.html
Thank You for clearing that up.....some relief

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by Nutmeg247 » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:01 am

shets114 wrote:http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Shock-Co ... zbj65G1mw1

The war on E-Collars continue, Comparing to the Cigarette industry now.

Think this will just go away? Better think again and start working to protect it now.
It's similar to global warming tactically imo. Because of the willingness of opponents of e-collars to exact a high professional cost against anyone saying they are beneficial if used properly, it's not surprising that Vet Behaviorists, for instance, pretty uniformly don't support their use. Who wants to be called a sadist and denied tenure or excluded from conferences because they support "shock?" So, tactically, you can get a large number of professional organizations to say they oppose e-collars. Plus, how many vet behaviorists hunt, much less support hunting?

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by gamekeeper » Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:02 pm

The AKC has turned into a gay club.All the old breeders have died and it is now totally run by kooks.The only reason to reg.with them is if you want to show dogs.The American Field is the oldest dog registry in the country and actually furnished the AKC with their records when AKC started up.I dual reg all my bird dogs it is a great registry that almost solely concentrates on bird dogs.They publish a weekly paper The American Field that covers all bird dog trials.It is a great registry if it suits your needs.

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Re: AKC's Vice Presidents thoughts on E-Collar use

Post by fuzznut » Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:16 pm

Gamekeeper, if you feels this way, why dual register? Just stick with AF and be done with it.

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