Difference in Homing and Feral Pigeons

[CCBIRDDOGMAN]

Is there any difference? The ones I see around town look just like what I have in my coop. Is there a difference or are Feral pigeons just Homing pigeons that are wild?

[V-John]

Yes, there is a difference structurally. You can tell a difference, in the way they feel, and the way that the head is shaped.
Generally, racing homers will home from further, faster then a feral will. Generally.

[mnaj_springer]

CCBIRDDOGMAN, I hope you don't mind me piggy-backing your post with a follow up question...

But will only feral pigeons born in your coop return to it, or once they're established there, or what? I've always bought pigeons and am looking to raise some myself now.

[rinker]

A homing pigeon is the equivalent of an English setter or Labrador retriever that was bred on purpose to do a specific job. A feral pigeon is the equivalent of a mixed breed dog that may or may not have a little setter or lab in him.

[SCT]

This might give you an idea of how they differ.

http://www.shewmaker.com/digest94.pdf

[V-John]

This might give you an idea of how they differ.

http://www.shewmaker.com/digest94.pdf

I read that on the other forum. Thanks for posting that, I'm currently at a point where Im trying to decide where we want to go with our breeding program. (Pigeons that is)

[V-John]

CCBIRDDOGMAN, I hope you don't mind me piggy-backing your post with a follow up question...

But will only feral pigeons born in your coop return to it, or once they're established there, or what? I've always bought pigeons and am looking to raise some myself now.

You can settle ferals to your loft but you will likely lose a bunch. If born into your loft your success rate will be much higher.

[marysburg]

When people ask about our homing pigeons, I always tell them that homers compared to ferals are like jersey cows compared to bison. One is a domesticated animal whose traits have been chosen and shaped for generations, whereas bison can never be tamed and are true to their intstinctive behaviours. Homers are fun and can get so tame, especially the ones who have been used for years for training.

[DonF]

I think you can settle homer's also, but it isn't easy. I do have a homer in my homer loft that volunteered over a year ago and is still here. I keep thinking someday it's just gonna go away. Ferals are easier to settle but even all of them won't do it. My feral loft has about 30 birds right now, every one was hatched here. I have about 50 in my homer loft, all but three were hatched here; one volunteer and two original birds. For most people the ferals will do all that homer's will do. They won't home from as far, they are more nervous and they are quite a bit smaller. Pick up one of each and you'll recognize it right away. See a feral in your homer loft or a homer in the feral loft and it sticks out like a sore thumb, homer's much bigger. Advantage to ferals is their size for some people. My old traps were smaller than my newer one's and a homer was really cramped in the old one's. I've had homer's die in the old ones; those were very old BTW and you'd have trouble finding them today. the Idea that a homer will trap faster than a feral is wrong. A hungry bird will trap faster than a not hungry bird. If you train within about 50mi of your loft, both type's will reliably return. The best type of either are going to be birds hatched in your loft and raised in your loft. You can get birds hatched in another loft and never flown that are very young and they settle easily in a new loft. After they've flown, your chances go way down. if you wonder if the young bird is to old to easily settle, just a look is about all it takes. The young birds that will settle easily will have the bridge of it's nose still dark and maybe a few hairs still on it's head. It will not have gone out yet at all probably but it will be moving around the loft, eating and drinking on it's own and flying up on the perch's.

[10Sam29]

Don't waste your time on ferals. Find someone who has a quality loft of homers, and purchase some of their extra squeakers (youngsters) to establish your loft. Once you have good homers established in the loft and for training, don't bring in ferals, they could bring disease into your good birds. Use these homers for your whoa and steadiness training.

Use the ferals for your training sessions involving shooting and retrieving exercises.

Good luck,

CB

[DonF]

Don't waste your time on ferals. Find someone who has a quality loft of homers, and purchase some of their extra squeakers (youngsters) to establish your loft. Once you have good homers established in the loft and for training, don't bring in ferals, they could bring disease into your good birds. Use these homers for your whoa and steadiness training.

Use the ferals for your training sessions involving shooting and retrieving exercises.

Good luck,

CB

Just wondering why using ferals is a waste of time? I used them for about 30yrs before I got my homer's. My homer's haven't done one thing for me my ferals didn't do. I have both now.

[10Sam29]

I think the ferals are more likely to leave your loft. I haven't had good luck with ferals. When my friends were kids, they would go and raid the feral nests looking for really young birds. That might work, but I'm too old to be crawling around up in rafters or under bridges at night raiding nests to fill my loft.

[CCBIRDDOGMAN]

Thanks for all the reply's. I bought six from a guy on another forum that wasn't too far from me. I have had them a little over a year and have sold 12 birds and still have 15 but when one of the guy's that bought from me asked how you tell the difference, I didn't know. And it got me to thinking, how do I even know that I got real Homers and not some birds the guy caught under a bridge? All of my birds are let out everyday and even the original six all stayed when I let them out after about six months, they all home great but I haven't taken them down the road any, just let them loft fly. I can do most of my training right next to my house.

[CDN_Cocker]

Is there any difference? The ones I see around town look just like what I have in my coop. Is there a difference or are Feral pigeons just Homing pigeons that are wild?

Huge difference. Like a dog and a wolf. Homers have been selectively bred for centuries to do what they do. Also if you had some ferals you would notice they do not look the same, just the colours. I used to race pigeons long before my dog days. There is a lot that goes into breeding champion homers. Research eye sign a bit - won't get much of that in a feral. They couldn't be further apart. I think the colour and similar shape is what's throwing you. The difference would be like a pomeranian and a GSP. Nothing similar.

[CDN_Cocker]

Ferals are certainly not a waste. Generally smaller and better conditioned (if wild caught) than a homer. Take off much harder and faster than the average homer.

[Soarer31]

Is there any difference? The ones I see around town look just like what I have in my coop. Is there a difference or are Feral pigeons just Homing pigeons that are wild?

Huge difference. Like a dog and a wolf. Homers have been selectively bred for centuries to do what they do. Also if you had some ferals you would notice they do not look the same, just the colours. I used to race pigeons long before my dog days. There is a lot that goes into breeding champion homers. Research eye sign a bit - won't get much of that in a feral. They couldn't be further apart. I think the colour and similar shape is what's throwing you. The difference would be like a pomeranian and a GSP. Nothing similar.

Sorry , have to disagree ,
Homers are ferals and ferals are homers ,only racers are selectively bred for speed , all will home just the same, the ferals that rough it in the wild are generally smaller only because their not well fed like the domesticated ones ,

[CDN_Cocker]

You're wrong. Not all homers are bred for racing. They are completely different I have owned both.

[DonF]

My ferals are all smaller than my homer's and every one of them has been hatched right here, for a lot of years. They are not as calm as my homers and I doubt they'll home from as far. But I have consistently had ferals come back 50 mi. Racing homer's are selectively bred but the thing I think they might be bred for most, is homing ability to get them back from great distance and speed. All homer's don't return to the loft. I think I mentioned that I have a homer in my loft that volunteered and it's been here about a year now.

For the purpose of dog training, I don't think there's much difference in homer's and ferals, they will both do about the same thing in regards to training dogs. The main difference being the distance they will do it from consistently. I saw consistently because I have had ferals return from close to 100 mi., a walk in the park for a decent homer.

Cost of homer's can be a lot higher but to a point, cost means little. I started with 6 homer's, got them from a friend. I've got about 50 in there right now and I've given away a lot of birds to friends wanting to start a loft. That's just in about 3-4 yrs!If you paid $25 a bird for three pair and they turned into 50+ birds in 3-4 yrs, doesn't sound like a bad investment to me. Ferals easily bring $3 a bird, some places more, or of course you can catch your own for free. 50+ birds at $3 ea is over $150. Not that bad a return on the original six birds. Consider I don't know just how many birds I've given away to friends so the number is much greater than 50.

It really doesn't matter what either bird may be bred to do, all we need is a bird that come's home after a relatively short flight! The only reason I got homer's was to take them far from home to take dog photo's and know most will beat me home! Other than that, I've no need for homer's. They are a lot calmer than ferals and they are better parents. And, in 30yrs of having ferals, I've never had a red one. Some are really pretty, I have some red grizzle's but they also appear to be a favorite food of hawks!

[aulrich]

I started my koop with whatever I could find so my genetics are still pretty muddy. One thing I have notice is if the homer gene is strong, they like beer and are really lazy and sort of dume, but if the homing gene is strong you can tell even when your loft flying they route faster and seem to be gone longer. I also notice that when I distance train I get some odd early losses like under a 1/2 mile.

This fall I have to make a choice my best parents pair tends to make poor homing babies even though I can just about get two clutches a month out of them, even so I am pretty sure I will cull them. Any sort of distance training seem to weed out the ranks pretty fast too, my distance team this year started at 14 and was down to 8 by the time I hit 10 miles and I think I had hawk problems because I am down to 5 of those.

But if you training on your “back 40” and you don’t need any real distance ferals are the way to go, they are a jumpier bird and breed faster and in rougher conditions.

Also don't get fooled with "fancy" homers like show dogs if they have the right genetics it is purely by accident.

[V-John]

You're wrong. Not all homers are bred for racing. They are completely different I have owned both.

X2.

It's a completely different ballgame when comparing the two.

Especially the very best racers.

[oldbeek]

The all white, rock doves, do not take off hard like a feral or homer. Many of them will shoot out of the release trap and land right there in front of the dog on the ground. Makes a mess out of the training session. Just my experience. Never had this problem with homers or feral.

[DonF]

The all white, rock doves, do not take off hard like a feral or homer. Many of them will shoot out of the release trap and land right there in front of the dog on the ground. Makes a mess out of the training session. Just my experience. Never had this problem with homers or feral.

I had a couple homer's do this, lucky it was older dogs. Lot's of time's I'll tip over a foot trap with homer's and they'll just walk around in front of the dog's. I actually like that trait with the older dog's!

[gundogguy]

CCBIRDDOGMAN, I hope you don't mind me piggy-backing your post with a follow up question...

But will only feral pigeons born in your coop return to it, or once they're established there, or what? I've always bought pigeons and am looking to raise some myself now.

Ferals return very nicely caught back 6 yesterday from the Saturday morning training group. Concerning homers v ferals. Feral do flush better being a wee bit more athletic in the first place. As for gunning, 9/8 oz load of plated 6's will kill either, ferals or homers at the 50yrd line nicely! It's what you do when you are conditioning steady to wing dogs to the mark!

[MillerClemsonHD]

Don't waste your time on ferals. Find someone who has a quality loft of homers, and purchase some of their extra squeakers (youngsters) to establish your loft. Once you have good homers established in the loft and for training, don't bring in ferals, they could bring disease into your good birds. Use these homers for your whoa and steadiness training.

Use the ferals for your training sessions involving shooting and retrieving exercises.

Good luck,

CB

That sounds all well in good until the pigeon racers refuse to sell to dog trainers. Even had one tell me he had to do a home inspection before I could get birds from him, and I was only trying to get culls and he had an ad on craigs list. I search multiple sources year round and I have better odds of finding a leprechaun than I do pigeons. I have 4 other people I know looking for pigeons and that doesn't include any of the ads I have seen searching for them.

When the guy at a local boarding stable starts catching them again I told him I would buy every one he catches. Feral pigeons are better than no pigeons. Guess I need to rent an old chicken house and get some birds shipped in and start raising them and only sell to dog trainers.

[ezzy333]

I don't know of a single flyer in our club who doesn't sell or give away birds. I have sold 175 this year and have helped butcher and can 50 more that no one wanted. I think we all care about how they are handled and treated since most are off spring of some really good birds that we have spent a lot of time and money on. I know I much prefer that they go to someone wanting to start their own loft. But we all have culls that have little use and can be used as shooters rather than just turned lose and possibly suffer a hard death.

Ezzy

[DonF]

Starting out with ferals can be frustrating. You have to imprison them a month or more. best to get them in the spring and get them on nest's. On nest they normally always come back. If you imprison them a month or so and no nest's, figure on loosing a few when you fly them. Not a big deal. gone is gone weather you shoot them or they leave. The one's that do return are there for the long haul. When you first start flying them, just open the re-entry hole and let them come and go on their own. lately I've been questioning having bobs on the re-entry. i have a varmint door that closed keeps the birds inside. Open the door so they can come and go and you don't have to teach them to used the bobs. Of course if your racing bobs with a trap to time them are a must. There's a Belgium type re-entry I really like and it has no bobs. removing bobs simply means no need to teach re-entry. and with that re-entry, the birds can only get it, not out.

[aulrich]

It’s a Belgian drop trap or sometimes call a sputnik, when I figured out I had made a bob trap too small I build one of the drop traps. I don’t formally trap train my home grown YB’s I loft fly the older birds and just put the newbies on the loft roof. Once the other ones start trapping the newbies mostly just work it out for themselves.

I am down to my last 3 prisoner birds (adult racers I got from a guy) but after they are gone I would like to figure out a way to have an outdoor for them especially in winter when I am never really home during daylight. That way they will stay in better flight shape.

[DonF]

It’s a Belgian drop trap or sometimes call a sputnik, when I figured out I had made a bob trap too small I build one of the drop traps. I don’t formally trap train my home grown YB’s I loft fly the older birds and just put the newbies on the loft roof. Once the other ones start trapping the newbies mostly just work it out for themselves.

I am down to my last 3 prisoner birds (adult racers I got from a guy) but after they are gone I would like to figure out a way to have an outdoor for them especially in winter when I am never really home during daylight. That way they will stay in better flight shape.

My homer loft was built for chickens originally. I cut a re-entry in the front of it and there is an 18'x20' enclosed pen out the back. Cut out another re-entry there and used to teach the young birds to trap there. The pen out back has about 7' head room and a couple perch's for the birds to sit on. Side's are 1" chicken wire with wire buried in the ground. The top is game bird netting. Bird's always have access to that pen.

[topher40]

Thebiggest difference is price and perception.

[polmaise]

Is there any difference? The ones I see around town look just like what I have in my coop. Is there a difference or are Feral pigeons just Homing pigeons that are wild?

As the name defines . Feral as in Cats or any other creature. That is where the distinction and difference applies.
Can't comment on the one's in your coop.

[aulrich]

Outside of some populations of rock doves (wild pigeons) that are found in southern Europe and North Africa everything is actually the same as your koop . In my koop (with it’s iffy genetics) the chicks from my known Homer/ racer pairings are bigger than the ones from the feral birds I have.

I think lots of racers just end up blue bar or blue check since they are like dog guys, where form follows function and breed by/for performance and pay little attention to color.

[polmaise]

I think lots of racers just end up blue bar or blue check since they are like dog guys, where form follows function and breed by/for performance and pay little attention to color.

Not necessarily so! Some of the best have been Red Chequer or Mealy !..even a few 'Pied'

[ezzy333]

Blues by far are the most common color in homers as well as wild pigeons. Somewhere along the line there was an ash red pigeon hatched and lo and behold it was dominate over the blues. So if you have two red pigeons they can carry blue and if they do they will hatch approx. 1/4 of their young blue and 3/4 red. If they are pure red all of their young will be red and of course the blues will only have blues. But there is also a dilute factor involved and if they are carrying the dilute factor,the little reds will be yellow, blues will be silver or some call it slate, the blacks will be dun, and the browns will be kackie. Then you have the pattern which lets a spread or solid color bird produce any lesser pattern, the checks can produce everything but solids, the bars can produce bars or barless and the barless can only produce barless. Then there are several other factors such as dirty, smokey and such. Plus there are several rather exotic colors such as opal, indigo, almond, and Andalusian. In pigeons the hens are always a pure color and carry no other color but the cocks will and do carry other colors. For instance two ash reds, the hen will always be pure red but the cock might carry blue. You can usually tell if they so as there will be little dark flecks in the flight or tail feathers.

These are just some of the ways homers may be different than your commor barn pigeon plus there is considerable difference in size, muscle, and structure which allows the racing homer to be faster, stronger, and possibly smarter than the average wild bird.

Ezzy