Got a Live One Here

[Gertie]

The good news is that my new setter pup is smart, bold, and pretty as they come. The bad news is she's willful, stubborn, and a bit naughty. Example: she knows exactly what "here" means and does it consistently in the house and in the yard but when I get her out in the field she bolts. Actually put a 10' check cord on her today and said 'here', as soon as I said it she sat down, I walked up to her and right before I could hold of the cord she took off. She's still too small for the e-collar but this is new turf for me. My other setter was always very biddable but I think I have a different critter on my hands. My question to you good folks is how do you approach training this type of dog without ruining the boldness and style?

[Sharon]

Patience, consistency, and smiles . I'm on my 4th Jack Russell. If you want a challenge........... and like raising teenagers - pick your battles.

[Fran Seagren]

Check cord - a long one.

Many years ago I learned something significant from an obedience instructor. I asked her what she does when a puppy reaches that age when they know they can outrun us? She said, "My dogs don't know they can outrun me." Some of the best advice I ever got. The dog I had then was the last dog that ever "knew" it could outrun me.

Post pics of your new puppy. Hope to see her next spring.

Fran

[Red Delicious]

Is that one of Gertie's pups? Who did you end up breeding her with?

Fran's correct, pictures would be very welcome.

Craig O.

[Gertie]

Longer check cord. Got it. I think we're in for a bit of a ride but I hope the outcome will be worth it. And yes Craig and Fran, this is Gert's pup (pick of the litter, shows what I know ). Anyway, I bred her to Jettsun so pups are sunrise with a little Equinox and then Patriot's line. Gorgeous litter. I posted a few pics in a previous post. I'll try and take some more pics of this one (her name is 'Wheels') when I get a chance. She's a handful for sure. Gets pissed, not scared or nervous, flat out pissed when I try and trim her nails. She's somethin.

[Runningdog]

Sounds like what I'am dealing with a 10mo. old shorthair I run her afield with a 30ft. check cord.... she knows the come command 100%, and when given will not come 100%... I got a tough nut to crack to!

[Gertie]

Sounds like what I'am dealing with a 10mo. old shorthair I run her afield with a 30ft. check cord.... she knows the come command 100%, and when given will not come 100%... I got a tough nut to crack to!

Well at least I know I'm not alone Best of luck to you. I've been told that if you can get the willful ones to cooperate without breaking their spirit they are the best ones. Guess we'll just have to practice our patience and try to be smarter than our dogs!

[Neil]

We use to laughingly say there are no run off dogs, just slow scouts.

Today, just buy a Garmin and let her hunt. I suspect what you are calling bolting, we would call a nice opening cast.

Take her somewhere very safe, keep track of her with the Garmin, and continue to train on a reliable recall. Never give a command you can't enforce. Enjoy.

[greg jacobs]

Same boat. My 17 month old gsp has a 800 yard "opening cast". Alpha is on order. I always buy more horsepower than I need. I need a Kia I buy a Ferrari. Not once but time after time.

[shags]

Without biddable you have nothing, no matter how nice the dog is otherwise. Work on getting her to want to do things your way, and do it for everything in her life not only in training for field work. That kind of spirit can be a wonderful fun challenge and it's very rewarding when the pup joins the team, so to speak.

Where I live we're never more than a half mile from a road, so a run-off pup could put itself in danger in a heartbeat. And I'm way too old to be very good at chasing them down and stepping on a cc. So when I bought a TT 3-dog unit, I got two regular collars, and the small one they make for little dogs ( sorry, that age thing is creeping in and I can't remember what they call it ). But it works great for little dogs and younger puppies. I boight it for my little 20pound jagd terrier but I've used it for my last three setter pups, letting them start wearing it around 10-12 weeks old then conditioning them to it as needed.

Good luck with your pup That spit-in-your-eye attitude can be frustrating and aggravating at times, but it can be a load of fun too if you're up for a challenge. You'll need to be a thoughtful trainer and have a VERY good sense of humor

[AZ Brittany Guy]

A few tips I learned at a Rick Smith seminar years ago:

Never give a command you can't enforce.
Never call in a dog when it is in the middle of running an "objective". (your just wasting your time and voice)
After introducing the ecollar, get on a knee, call your dog and give a light "nick" on the ecollar, then "shut up" and wait. The pup will look at you and keep running then it will eventually turn and do a "fly by". Don't try to grab them when they pass by, let them go. After a few more fly bys they will come in to you but hold your arms out and make them come into your lap and in-between your arms. Love em up and send them out right away. If you load them in the truck every time they come to you, they will always stay out until their tired and dam good and ready to come. Takes patience, patience, patience.

[rinker]

When your out always carry a pigeon with you. Call to the dog, pull the pigeon out and let it flap it's wings a little. In a couple of days that pup will knock you down coming to you.

[Sharon]

With all your experience Gertie, you're not going to have any problem. Enjoy the ride.

[polmaise]

The good news is that my new setter pup is smart, bold, and pretty as they come. The bad news is she's willful, stubborn, and a bit naughty. Example: she knows exactly what "here" means and does it consistently in the house and in the yard but when I get her out in the field she bolts. Actually put a 10' check cord on her today and said 'here', as soon as I said it she sat down, I walked up to her and right before I could hold of the cord she took off. She's still too small for the e-collar but this is new turf for me. My other setter was always very biddable but I think I have a different critter on my hands. My question to you good folks is how do you approach training this type of dog without ruining the boldness and style?

I hear you already have experience with dogs?
Just not with this one.
Smart/pretty/bold /willful/stubborn/naughty is all the attributes I would look for in a dog.
Check cord will certainly take the Boldness and style from what you describe (imo). The Good news from some is that the other attributes can be suppressed .
If the dog ''takes off'' > right before you could hold the cord then I would tell her to 'go' right after

[Gertie]

Thanks all. If we were in a safe spot when the above situation occurred it would have been one thing (I'd have let her rip). However, we were just coming in from a run and the rig was parked next to a busy road. Little turd bolted across it. Could have been ugly. I'd never reign her in unless I had to but those are the kind of situations that when you say "Here!" you mean it. She didn't do it and took off before I could enforce it so now we've got a little bit of an issue to resolve.

[DonF]

If you can find a spot where you can turn her loose and let her roll, do it. Follow her and try to let her run it out. She' not tired, she's not quitting. Just let her roll and stay with her. Once she has it out of her system, you'll be able to call her in, she'll probably shorten up well. At that point, put her on the cc and fool with the here command a bit. Before you turn her loose do a bit of cc work and the here command. Once she's turned loose, shut up and follow. Keep in mind that she can't disobey a command she didn't get! As she grows older she'll start doing it better, it's not keeping her from what she want's. Oh, does she try to keep track of you? She's out running and you make a direction change does she go with you?

[polmaise]

Thanks all. If we were in a safe spot when the above situation occurred it would have been one thing (I'd have let her rip). However, we were just coming in from a run and the rig was parked next to a busy road. Little turd bolted across it. Could have been ugly. I'd never reign her in unless I had to but those are the kind of situations that when you say "Here!" you mean it. She didn't do it and took off before I could enforce it so now we've got a little bit of an issue to resolve.

Sounds like a typical 'dog owner' issue rather than a Gundog or even a specific breed issue !?
Plain basic discipline training !?....
Next to a busy road is not where a dog should be!?...................................................................................
Asking about an issue on here,without mentioning it in the first post ,just wasted my time. Have a nice day though .

[Gertie]

Sorry polmaise, didn't mean to waste your time. Original question was how do I train a strong willed pup to come when called without ruining her style and desire to run? Sounds to me like I need to just take her to places she can't get in trouble until we get the "here" part of the equation worked out.

Don, She goes with me pretty well. Stays to the front and checks in once in a while. I haven't had to call her in yet. She turns with me pretty well too. Handling is not a problem. She just doesn't like to get in the car until she's dang good and ready. That's fine. I'll just run her more and in places away from roads. We'll get this figured out one way or another.

[Gertie]

A few tips I learned at a Rick Smith seminar years ago:

Never give a command you can't enforce.
Never call in a dog when it is in the middle of running an "objective". (your just wasting your time and voice)
After introducing the ecollar, get on a knee, call your dog and give a light "nick" on the ecollar, then "shut up" and wait. The pup will look at you and keep running then it will eventually turn and do a "fly by". Don't try to grab them when they pass by, let them go. After a few more fly bys they will come in to you but hold your arms out and make them come into your lap and in-between your arms. Love em up and send them out right away. If you load them in the truck every time they come to you, they will always stay out until their tired and dam good and ready to come. Takes patience, patience, patience.

Thanks for this post. Sounds like a good plan. Also like the idea of having a pigeon in my pocket. Maybe a combination of the two will do the trick. Again, thanks for the help.

[AZ Brittany Guy]

A few tips I learned at a Rick Smith seminar years ago:

Never give a command you can't enforce.
Never call in a dog when it is in the middle of running an "objective". (your just wasting your time and voice)
After introducing the ecollar, get on a knee, call your dog and give a light "nick" on the ecollar, then "shut up" and wait. The pup will look at you and keep running then it will eventually turn and do a "fly by". Don't try to grab them when they pass by, let them go. After a few more fly bys they will come in to you but hold your arms out and make them come into your lap and in-between your arms. Love em up and send them out right away. If you load them in the truck every time they come to you, they will always stay out until their tired and dam good and ready to come. Takes patience, patience, patience.

Thanks for this post. Sounds like a good plan. Also like the idea of having a pigeon in my pocket. Maybe a combination of the two will do the trick. Again, thanks for the help.

my pleasure, one more thought..always give them some water when they come in. I hope I'm not insulting your intelligence as I know UR an experienced dog person.
I wish U the best!

[Gertie]

Ha! Y'all flatter me with your assumption that I have experience. This is my 2nd gundog and I think I really lucked out with the 1st one. Please don't worry about insulting my intelligence. When it comes to bird dogs I have very little to insult. Thanks again for the good feedback. That's a good idea.

[fuzznut]

biggest mistake I see most people make when working on getting a puppy to come in to you is they tend to want to catch them and leash them up right away.

Practice (check cord work) calling them to you and immediately allowing them to run free again. A bit of a pat on the head, piece of a treat, lots of high pitched good dogs, turn em loose! Do it again, and again, and again..... they learn that they have to come in to you but the fun will not end. Keep it happy, but this is the one command they don't get to be choosey with, if you call them you have to reinforce the wanted result.

Oh, and get a longer check cord!!!

Sounds like you are going to have a lot of fun with this one!

[dog dr]

biggest mistake I see most people make when working on getting a puppy to come in to you is they tend to want to catch them and leash them up right away.

Practice (check cord work) calling them to you and immediately allowing them to run free again. A bit of a pat on the head, piece of a treat, lots of high pitched good dogs, turn em loose! Do it again, and again, and again..... they learn that they have to come in to you but the fun will not end. Keep it happy, but this is the one command they don't get to be choosey with, if you call them you have to reinforce the wanted result.

Oh, and get a longer check cord!!!

Sounds like you are going to have a lot of fun with this one!

this idea has helped me. Also, how old is this pup?? To me she needs the e-collar, especially if she knows what "here" means but is just ignoring you. BUT, im a vet, not a dog trainer, so take my advice with a pound of salt!

[Doc E]

. She's still too small for the e-collar but this is new turf for me.

Too small or too young ?

My PL pup will be 4 months old next Friday, so (following Smartwork), we will begin "ecollar to HERE" on Saturday.

.

[DonF]

I suspect she's to small and to young. Long as she's staying with you and checking in, keep on keeping on. Staying with you and checking are two thing's hard to teach! Once she's big enough to wear the e-collar, put it on every time but don't turn it on. Down the road you'll know when it's time to turn it on.

[Gertie]

She's definitely too small for the e-collar setup I currently have (TT 100-Pro). She only weighs about 20 lbs and has a scrawny little neck. Also, she's only about 4 mo. old and I have been told that, due to setters maturing a little later, it's not a good idea to put the e-collar on until they are at least 5 mo. old. On the other hand, I've also heard that the time to do it is after the first time you give them a command they know and they look at you and give you the ol' f-you and do what they want instead. Kinda tricky to know what the best course of action is for the best long-term result.

[Sharon]

As long as I can run the pup down, I don't use an e collar. Much rather get my hands on the dog as long as possible.

[shags]

Problem is running them down near a road, that's no place for little bonehead pups to play games. Long-term results of ecollar use is a moot point when you have to scrape your dog's body off the pavement.
A little knick (a 1continuous or 2 knick on my TT) to get a pup's attention won't have a bad effect on his psyche...call him in, he ignores, you knick, he thinks "What the heck was that? and looks for you, you ignore and keep going, pup comes in, you tell him "all righty then" and you both continue on your merry ways. The minute my pups get bold enough to blow me off, they get the collar, and wear it every time we go out thereafter even though I very seldom have to use it. Pups is pups and do what pups do, and if a little knick keeps them out of harm's way, so be it.

[ezzy333]

Problem is running them down near a road, that's no place for little bonehead pups to play games. Long-term results of ecollar use is a moot point when you have to scrape your dog's body off the pavement.
A little knick (a 1continuous or 2 knick on my TT) to get a pup's attention won't have a bad effect on his psyche...call him in, he ignores, you knick, he thinks "What the heck was that? and looks for you, you ignore and keep going, pup comes in, you tell him "all righty then" and you both continue on your merry ways. The minute my pups get bold enough to blow me off, they get the collar, and wear it every time we go out thereafter even though I very seldom have to use it. Pups is pups and do what pups do, and if a little knick keeps them out of harm's way, so be it.

I can't agree more. The problems caused by an e-collar in a normal persons hands is very overrated. Of course like any tool they can be disasterous in an idiots hands. A collar used gently is no worse than loud vocal correction or a slap with an open hand. Not using it can cause great harm including death.

[polmaise]

As long as I can run the pup down, I don't use an e collar. Much rather get my hands on the dog as long as possible.

Never had to 'run a pup down' Sharon.
Hope I never will, especially as I am now older in years . I'll have nothing left in the locker