As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

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gundogguy
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As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by gundogguy » Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:18 am

New Home!
What criteria do you use in selecting owners for your pups? Chances are you will have to have had a couple of litters to develop a pattern in this area of placing your offspring in an environment where they will have a chance to thrive and succeed, and at least make minimal standards of development in what You as the breeder was trying to accomplish when you put the Stud to your Bitch.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:26 am

Main thing I look for is do they want the pup and do they have the money. Personality as judge by having conversation about what and why do they want the pup probably enter more into which pup I would recommend if asked. I just do not feel comfortable deciding who with the limited knowledge I have so it still comes back to who wants one and a little bit as to why.

75% who
25% why

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by Elkhunter » Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:45 pm

I make sure they wild bird hunt for sure.

I asked a guy here in Utah that called about one of my pups, I asked if he hunted chukars, he asked me what a chukar was. I told him all the pups were sold.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by Vman » Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:32 pm

I screen people over the phone and e-mails. I look for Hunters, I only sell pups to people that hunt with a rare exception and that depends on the breeding or if a pup just isn`t what I would want. My last litter I had one male left, a very nice pup that showed tons of promise. I turned down 11 people on that pup, waiting for the right person. Finally at 13 weeks I got a good call. Pup is now owned by the President of the N.Ca. NAVHDA Chapter and he is delighted and I am sure the pup is also. :D

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by Georgia Boy » Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:55 pm

Hunting homes only and I don't mean the guy that makes the annual weekend trip to SD each year and that's it. I prefer experienced hunting dog owners but have made the occasional exception if they were serious hunters and I thought they would put the time in training and hunting the dog

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by gundogguy » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:20 pm

Thanks to all that share their thoughts on this subject. Knowing full well that this would not be a overly populated thread, after all to be a Breeder you would have had to have more than two breeding's to develop a stragedy on placing and selling pups in proper homes.

For my self over many years Our spaniel pups only are available to Field trial homes or homes that have made Master Hunter in the Spaniel hunt test program.
Started or finished hunting dogs are available then to the hunting community. Folks looking for companion pets are highly discourage and every attempt is made to see that they find a pup from some one else.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:44 pm

I have never felt comfortable buying a pup and having the breeder tell me what I was going to do with the pup. With that in mind I do not make a big deal pout of what the people are going to do with the pup they buy from me. If I had my druthers I would like to see the pup hunted but I also know there are a thousand other activities that people are interested that includes their dog. So my main thought is will they provide a good loving home for the pup. After all that is the ultimate reward that the pup wants and needs.

Ezzy

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by 41magsnub » Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:02 pm

<-- not a breeder, but for the guy who would not place a dog in a hunting home you miss out on some good customers.

Take my aunt, she got a GWP she got from the same breeder after she met my Maddie. She runs up Mount Helena 4-5 times per week with the dog off leash. She has a huge fenced yard. She trains the dog constantly and is going to start formally training the dog for shed hunting this spring. Won't be much of a stretch, the dog already finds antlers and plays with them.

Not a hunting home, but would you be comfortable placing the dog there? I sure would, her GWP is in fantastic physical condition, is well trained, is happy, well adjusted, and has a great life.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by klewis » Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:41 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I have never felt comfortable buying a pup and having the breeder tell me what I was going to do with the pup. With that in mind I do not make a big deal pout of what the people are going to do with the pup they buy from me. If I had my druthers I would like to see the pup hunted but I also know there are a thousand other activities that people are interested that includes their dog. So my main thought is will they provide a good loving home for the pup. After all that is the ultimate reward that the pup wants and needs.

Ezzy
Im with Ezzy I have bought many pups & when I paid for them they were mine to do as I wanted.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by JKP » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:34 pm

Good homes!! How much folks hunt is a question of family, jobs, income, and location. But, I never want to get the call (again!!) that they lost the dog, ran over the dog, the dog drank antifreeze....all of which I have experienced. I'll take the good hunting home where a dog is well cared for....the rest is gravy.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by cjhills » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:09 pm

JKP wrote:Good homes!! How much folks hunt is a question of family, jobs, income, and location. But, I never want to get the call (again!!) that they lost the dog, ran over the dog, the dog drank antifreeze....all of which I have experienced. I'll take the good hunting home where a dog is well cared for....the rest is gravy.
I don't quite get this post. I had a buyer whose wife ran over the puppy and another one whose dog got hit by a car when he was four years old these were both very good owners. Accidents happen. My preference is a buyer who is looking for a family dog that will hunt. I really like marathon runners. But any body who keeps the dog active and engaged works for me. I like some type of competition but it is entirely the choice of the buyer.
Too many hunting dogs spend most of their time in a kennel out behind the garage. My dogs to not do well in that environment..................Cj

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by Deets » Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:10 pm

Strange question, I would think that if you were in the business of selling dogs (breeder) your only concern would be payment. I can't think of many business that stipulate what you can do with a product after you buy it. This sounds a lot like these dog adoption groups, that make you jump through all kinds of hoops before letting you adopt their dogs. I know someone that was turned down when she tried to adopt a cat, because it was going to be a barn cat.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by gundogguy » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:44 am

The wonderful thing about having a litter of pups is, they are your property. To do with as the owner of the property sees fit. As the property owner the breeder has the right to set any condition they feel comfortable with in the transfer and placement of their pup (property)

The potential buyer has those same considerations, the potential buyer can accept the conditions or walk away and look else where for a pup or dog!

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by Deets » Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:54 am

gundogguy wrote:The wonderful thing about having a litter of pups is, they are your property. To do with as the owner of the property sees fit. As the property owner the breeder has the right to set any condition they feel comfortable with in the transfer and placement of their pup (property)

The potential buyer has those same considerations, the potential buyer can accept the conditions or walk away and look else where for a pup or dog!
I don't disagree, just seems like a bad business model.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:16 am

As a breeder I try to breed the best gun dog lines that I can. In a perfect world I would like to see my pups go to Hunting / Field Trialing families that treat them like family members. I don't live in a "perfect world" but I feel I have a responsibility to the pups to get them in the best situation I can. I have sold pups to non hunters that are hikers (REI types) with fenced back yards or mountain bikers etc. I feel the pup gets into a good situation with that type of person. I don't put my customers through the "ringer" with an interrogation but we do have a conversation that allows me to figure out what type of person I am dealing with. Many times I will suggest a different breed or I will (in a humorous way ) point out that they should expect shedding, peeing, chewing furniture, digging up the back yard etc. while keeping an eye on the spouse for a reaction. First time dog owners should go into these situations with clear eyes.

I have in my contract a clause that states that for any reason the owner wants to get rid of the dog, I have the first right of refusal to take the dog back. Just recently I had a customer I sold a finished dog to 8 years ago call me wanting to return the dog. The customer is a good guy who hunts a ton, but he is hypoallergenic and keeps his dogs in a kennel when not hunting. The dog is over weight, failing hips and muscle atrophy. The old boy out lived his usefulness to the customer. At first I was pissed. How could the guy just discard a family member like that? After I calmed down I realized the customer was just following the contract that I wrote. I took him back, put him on a diet, with glucosamine and let him roam the dog yard with my other dogs. I don't want to become the "boneyard" for my senior dogs I sold but I feel I need to continue my responsibility as a breeder.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by Nutmeg247 » Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:33 pm

Deets wrote:...

I don't disagree, just seems like a bad business model.
Whenever I talk to people who do breed, it amazes me how much it's not a business model in terms of profit (if any) being a priority.

Though, substantively I do also see an important quality control element insofar as the breeder puts a lot of time, effort and money into producing pups, and if they aren't allowed a chance to prove out through hunting, an extremely good breeding might not be validated that should.

A lot of rescues won't place with hunters, for sort of mirror opposite reasons though I suspect some (not all) are simply also antis.

I wonder if the return/failed placement rate is any different between different types of homes?

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by gundogguy » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:34 am

Deets wrote:
gundogguy wrote:The wonderful thing about having a litter of pups is, they are your property. To do with as the owner of the property sees fit. As the property owner the breeder has the right to set any condition they feel comfortable with in the transfer and placement of their pup (property)

The potential buyer has those same considerations, the potential buyer can accept the conditions or walk away and look else where for a pup or dog!
I don't disagree, just seems like a bad business model.

I use an old Irish business model when it comes pups I'm the breeder of record of. "We buy at retail and sell at wholesale and try to make up the difference with volume"

NutMeg said it best in his post. When I'm breeding I'm looking for a pup for me to work with, selling pups is really the last thing on my mind. Finding the right home and situation is much more important to me!

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by Vman » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:20 am

None of us live in a perfect world. As I mentioned earlier I try and sell to hunters only. I have made exceptions but not very often. I am selling HUNTING DOGS. My pups live to hunt. It is their purpose in life. I find it cruel to have a HUNTING DOG and not allow it to hunt. I don`t sincerely mean this but it does hold some water. I train alot of dogs of different breeds and all to often I get a pup in for training and the owners are at wits end. When the pup leaves here the pup now has a purpose in life. He has discovered why he is on earth and he has discovered that he now has a job. The pup will be less destructive and more focused. He will be calmer. He will be a better dog in the house and be obedient. You would be surprised what a job can do for people and pups. The home that does not hunt will have a pup with no purpose. The pup will get into trouble trying to find his purpose. He will try anything to find that purpose. The non hunting home may very well bring the pup back or take it to a shelter because the pup is a problem. The pup will be confused and mischievous. If someone calls and wants a Pet {Vizsla} in my case I tell them to call a shelter and save a dogs life. It should be a Win Win. How many hunters turn their dog into a rescue when life hands them a bad hand? How many pet owners give up their dogs to shelters or rescues when life gives them a bad hand? If you cannot answer then go visit the local shelter and look for hunting dogs and see the ones that are there. My money is on the family that wanted a Hunting breed but didn`t hunt and could not handle the dog. Inexperienced owners and breeders just selling dogs to the first dollar that walks through the door. I have given good pups to Hunting Homes before I would sell a pup to a non hunting home.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by gsp-fan » Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:17 pm

I would love for to you back those claims that pet homes turn in hunting dogs more than hunters to rescue.
There is a breeder in TN that has EP pups says don't want them here I will dump them at a shelter time and time again and
rescue and pet homes are out there saving them. There was a kennel in TX recently that said I am through take these dogs
you have 2 days to a rescue. Go look at the Dogs for Sale here on this forum. Hound hunters just dump there dogs in the woods
when they are done or the dogs are no longer useful. I can go on and on.

Yes I am one of those dreaded pet homes with a GSP & EP. My dogs are given a purpose in life and are ran hard and at the end of the day
sigh a happy one like any hunting dog out there.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but not all pups from litters are the great hunters breeders think they are and are just not going to cut it.
I have read that a a breeder would rather cull a dog before giving it to a pet home - really - what age are we living in.

I am by no means a ANTI hunting person, PETA or any of those other things most hunters think pet homes are.

You are entirely in your right not to sell one of your pups to a non hunting home but please stop bashing those of us that are pet homes who love the breed
as much as you do

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by Vman » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:50 pm

New postby gsp-fan » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:17 pm

I would love for to you back those claims that pet homes turn in hunting dogs more than hunters to rescue.
There is a breeder in TN that has EP pups says don't want them here I will dump them at a shelter time and time again and
rescue and pet homes are out there saving them. There was a kennel in TX recently that said I am through take these dogs
you have 2 days to a rescue. Go look at the Dogs for Sale here on this forum. Hound hunters just dump there dogs in the woods
when they are done or the dogs are no longer useful. I can go on and on.
I have no proof other than taking care of these rescue dogs on a daily basis. The above is an example of backyard breeders who don`t have a clue what they are doing and should be reported to the local authorities and shut down. I know alot of breeders and not a single one would do that.
Yes I am one of those dreaded pet homes with a GSP & EP. My dogs are given a purpose in life and are ran hard and at the end of the day
sigh a happy one like any hunting dog out there.
I have no problem with what you are doing or you owning a GSP or EP. But I beleive you knew what you were getting into with those dogs, ie,exercise and high energy. But you are an exception and not the rule.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but not all pups from litters are the great hunters breeders think they are and are just not going to cut it.
That is why I wrote this before.
I only sell pups to people that hunt with a rare exception and that depends on the breeding or if a pup just isn`t what I would want.
You are entirely in your right not to sell one of your pups to a non hunting home but please stop bashing those of us that are pet homes who love the breed
as much as you do
I wan`t aware I was bashing anyone. Just because I would not sell you a dog does not mean I am bashing you.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by KCBrittfan » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:24 am

gsp-fan wrote: Yes I am one of those dreaded pet homes with a GSP & EP. My dogs are given a purpose in life and are ran hard and at the end of the day sigh a happy one like any hunting dog out there.
You sound like the lady who lives next door to our family farm. She lets her pet GSP & Pointer run free all year long and our property seems to be their favorite place. Goodness only knows the damage these dogs have done by running free through the countryside during the nesting season. This neighbor was really kind in helping to take care of my uncle that lived on the property. He had Parkinson's and, due in large part to her, was able to live out his life at home. Consequently, I have kept my mouth shut about her dogs. But how long should I keep silent because I feel a large debt of gratitude to her? I have casually brought up in conversation that running hunting dogs during nesting season is bad for the birds, but she did not take the hint.

It is great that people like you will take in unwanted hunting dogs. However, because of situations like I mentioned above, I strongly feel it is less than ideal. Some people just don't get what these dogs are all about, and no amount of education is going to help some of them. There is no way I'd ever sell a pup to a non-hunting home (and I've had several chances). Like someone else said, I would rather give the pup away for free to a hunting home (although its been my experience that if you are patient, the pups are well bred, and they're priced appropriately for the area, then they all sell eventually -- its just more work the longer they stay, and older pups can be a lot of work). Sure there are unethical breeders and hunting dog owners out there who just dump animals on the rescue community and/or the general pet buyers. If I sell a puppy to the general pet buyer (i.e. non-hunters), then its one less pup/dog they can rescue.

To the person who said this is a poor business model, I say you are right. However, for some of us it is not a business. I am happy if the pups I produced help improve the breed's hunting characteristics at least a little bit and I didn't loose money on the endeavor. For many people hunting dogs are a passion, hobby, labor of love, all consuming pastime, etc.; those thing rarely involve making a profit. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against those making a profit. I am just saying that for many of us falling into that category is not a high priority.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by cjhills » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:17 am

the truth is a good buyer is a good buyer. Makes no difference if the pup hunts or not. If it is engaged mentally and physically chances are it will be a happy healthy dog. The example above is just a bad situation. Some people just do not get it whether they are hunters or not.
I prefer a good family pet/ bird dog situation to a hunting only dog that spends it's life in a kennel accept to go hunting. Joggers, runners , agility, And all kinds of other games work great, at least for GSPs. They can develop a lot mental issues if we do not stimulate them both mentally and physically
We never know for sure if the pup is going to a good situation but we can get a pretty good feel for it and we almost always guess right.
If not we are ready and willing to take the dog back and try again. That has happened three times in 15 years. Two were from the same litter .......................Cj
Last edited by cjhills on Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by KCBrittfan » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:37 am

I agree that some people just don't get it -- even hunters.

Ideally I'd want every pup to go to a home that both hunts and provides year round stimulating activities. If I had to choose one over the other, then my preference is to sell to the hunting home. I realize this may mean the dog stays in the kennel and/or exercise yard except to hunt, train, or compete. I know that is contrary to the opinion of a lot of people, but I'd rather a well bred hunting dog live that way than be sentenced to a life of never seeing a bird. It just seems like such a waste to have the product of generation after generation of breedings designed to hone the dogs hunting aptitude never have the opportunity to hunt.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by gsp-fan » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:48 am

I do not let my dogs run willy nilly all over. They are trained on recall and use a ECollar when we are out running on public land. I would not tolerate a neighbors dogs in my property and would be having words with the neighbor.

I have been on this board for quite the while even though I do not post much. I came here to learn outlets for my dogs even though I do not hunt and I have been able to take those ideas and tweek them for my dogs.

V-Man - There are many pet homes like mine so I am not the exception. If I implied you were bashing it was not meant that way.

There your dogs you can do what you want with them, sell to who you want. My voice was to let breeders know there are great pet homes out there who are
quite active with there dogs just not hunting homes

I had written another post but I guess it did not send so here is my cut down version of what I said.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by KCBrittfan » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:16 am

gsp-fan I'm glad to hear that you don't let your dogs run wild. Please be extra careful during nesting season.

Sorry it came across like I was accusing you. I was just doing a little venting about my uncle's neighbor. I really am in a difficult position because she did so much for my uncle when he was alive. It would've tortured him beyond belief if we had to move him off the property, and there is no way he could've stayed without her help. Besides I'm just 1 of 11 owners of the property. 8 of the other 10 don't hunt and would be upset with me if I had words with this neighbor.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:44 am

KCBrittfan wrote:gsp-fan I'm glad to hear that you don't let your dogs run wild. Please be extra careful during nesting season.

Sorry it came across like I was accusing you. I was just doing a little venting about my uncle's neighbor. I really am in a difficult position because she did so much for my uncle when he was alive. It would've tortured him beyond belief if we had to move him off the property, and there is no way he could've stayed without her help. Besides I'm just 1 of 11 owners of the property. 8 of the other 10 don't hunt and would be upset with me if I had words with this neighbor.
KC, I'm afraid you took a "side trip" about running dogs in nesting season and not keeping your dog contained when you aren't their to supervise them. I have seen many hunting dog people train and run their dogs during nesting season and it has nothing to do with hunters, vs non hunters.

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by KCBrittfan » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:06 am

Sorry about the "side trip", but I just haven't seen any hunters running their bird dogs through known breeding grounds around here during nesting season. I have caught several non-hunters doing it (with the exception of that neighbor I have always corrected them). Maybe I've just been lucky with the hunters I know/run into, or my experience is too limited; and like you said its a side trip, so I'll drop the issue. (The Mo. Conservation Department used to have - maybe they still do -- an area set aside for running bird dogs during nesting season that's why I qualified my statement with "known breeding grounds")

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Re: As a Breeder what do you look for when placing pups in their

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:09 pm

I no longer do, but I did. My only criteria was that the pup we well treated and made a member of the family, I didn't care if they competed or not. I also never discounted a pup. The price was the price. Dog's were my living so money talked.

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