Major issues with yesterday's hunt. English setter

partyofone · Post by **partyofone** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:01 am

So here's what happened. I took my 7 month old Setter hunting yesterday with a group. One other dog. 7 hunters. Started off fine. My dog was working when the other dog flushed a bird about 50 yards away. A few shots at the bird and my dog took off for the truck. Couldn't stop him. Went to the dog and tried to calm him and convince him to come back but he wouldn't hunt. Put him in the truck. Came back a while later and tried to get him out and he ran off again.

Now, he has been around guns and never showed any shyness. We conditioned him, I thought. His unwillingness to hunt has shown before when with a group. Alone, with just me, he's good.

My worry is if I take him out alone and shoot and he runs again, I may not get him to stop.

I guess I'll have to take him out on a check cord and try to shoot over him again.

I just don't get it.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Erik

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:08 am

That is a lot to handle for a young dog... Don't hunt him in a group or with other dogs! That's my advice... And you may consider gun conditioning some more, 100 yards off with a starter pistol, while his nose is filled with bird scent. And pay attention closely to his reaction. Any sign of fear means STOP for the day (even longer) and go back to the fun stuff.

He's a puppy and all of this has to be FUN!

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:21 am

partyofone wrote:...7 month old Setter...7 hunters....50 yards away...A few shots at the bird...my dog took off for the truck

The first year of a dog's life is critical to teaching, learning, growing, maturing, and we all need to take our time.

partyofone wrote:I guess I'll have to take him out on a check cord and try to shoot over him again.

Step back and let's think about that statement...No...Go back to ground ZERO with him and do not bring a gun or any pressure. He is probably scared sh!/le$$. Go by yourself and have FUN with him and get into a TON of Birds, Birds, Birds! Then get together with a Pro - that will be the BEST money EVER spent - tell him or her EXACTLY what happened. I would suggest not trying to fix this on your own, could make it worse.

Where are you located? We could help put you in touch with people to help...

Meller · Post by **Meller** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:25 am

Where are you located, location may fined someone close willing to evaluate the situation, and give some help.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:30 am

party of one -

You don't get it???

YOU screwed up. Big time. You put a puppy, a seven month old puppy...in a terrible situation. That sucks. Don't blame the dog. YOU screwed up!

YOU are the one that needs training...not the dog.

?

RayG

partyofone · Post by **partyofone** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:03 am

RayGubernat wrote:party of one -

You don't get it???

YOU screwed up. Big time. You put a puppy, a seven month old puppy...in a terrible situation. That sucks. Don't blame the dog. YOU screwed up!

YOU are the one that needs training...not the dog.

?

RayG

You're right, it was my fault, and while I appreciate your comments, I was asking for help, not to be punished for my mistakes.

This is my first gun dog. I screwed up and pushed him too fast in this situation. Right now my plan is to end my season now and start over from square one next spring.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:29 am

Pretty sure the Op came on here for advice not insults. Think he knows he screwed up. No need to call him names. We were not all fortunate enough to be born knowing everything.
Do not try to force the issue with this dog by putting him on a check cord. Take him out by yourself, get him on a lot of birds, let him chase ,even let him catch a few. Start carrying a gun. No shooting. Start taking him out with another dog and another person. Keep it fun no shooting until he is really into birds. It sounds like more socializing would help. Eventually he will need to know that guns mean birds. Not just noise conditioning. When he gets really into birds have a helper shoot a blank pistol far off if he shows any reaction back off. Start very slowly one shot a trip to start. When there is no reaction move the helper a bit closer. Take your time a few months in the life of the dog is a pretty small price to pay.
DO NOT FORCE THINGS.
You may need a pro. Probably not if you go slow. Good Luck.........................Cj

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:50 am

Why not take pup out alone for a good spell and make sure he has some positive experiences being a pup new to the game and, especially, having fun with birds.
Save any gunfire and allow noise to enter only as pup is happy and then amp it up slowly....repeat the "save the gunfire" part as often as necessary.

Pup may have been intimidated by the other dog, people, cover, pace or whatever early on and gunfire was just the straw you noticed.

Most setters will adjust to the mistakes we make if we simply do not get in a hurry or enforce in a manner they do not understand.
A Pro is very good advice should you decide that providing what pup needs is beyond your experience....money well spent, most times.

Killing stuff or hunting a new pup with buddies...a far too popular end game for those just starting.

And, pup's name would be....?

partyofone · Post by **partyofone** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:56 am

So Maverick and I went out in the yard today and played his favorite game. I hide pheasant wings and he finds them. He is still super excited to "get the birdies." I'm sure he will be fine. I just need to slow down and go his pace. He likes to be with just me in the field and I should have respected his wishes. Actually, I prefer it that way too.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:01 pm

partyofone wrote:
RayGubernat wrote:party of one -

You don't get it???

YOU screwed up. Big time. You put a puppy, a seven month old puppy...in a terrible situation. That sucks. Don't blame the dog. YOU screwed up!

YOU are the one that needs training...not the dog.

?

RayG
You're right, it was my fault, and while I appreciate your comments, I was asking for help, not to be punished for my mistakes.

This is my first gun dog. I screwed up and pushed him too fast in this situation. Right now my plan is to end my season now and start over from square one next spring.

OK...now we are getting somewhere.

The first step in becoming a good trainer is to admit you made the mistake and not try to put it off on the dog, the breeder, the weather or whatever. Anything that goes wrong is the trainer's fault. Period. YOU are to blame. It is YOUR responsibility. Taking responsibility is not something that is very much in vogue today, it is always someone else's fault for everything that goes wrong... but it is what you need to do. You also need to understand that it is the dog that ultimately gets punished for the trainer's mistakes. Unfortunately, the dog always pays the price,.

The second thing about becoming a good trainer is to understand what went wrong and how to avoid doing anything like that ever again. so here goes...

I think you know now that taking your puppy out with a party of gunners was a really bad idea. Remember that, because the temptation to do it again will happen. I guarantee it. Most folks simply do not understand what can happen to even a seasoned dog when an anti-aiarcraft barrage of 12 ga. high brass loads gets let out. Some of the ones that do understand, simply don't care... because it ain't their dog. It is your dog...you get to deal with the good and the bad that happens, so you need to minimize the bad, even if it means letting down some of your friends.

For what it is worth... I too have been there ..and done that.... I am not proud of it, because I DID screw up a good dog and it took me a whole year and a whole lot of work and inconvenience on my part... to get that dog back. I was lucky that she was an incredibly tough minded dog with an unquenchable desire to find birds. That was forty years ago and I never did that again...and never will.

You have been given some good advice about how to go about getting the youngster past this. Here's my take on that part...Taking the pup out, by yourself, and letting it hunt, find birds and letting its inborn desire to find birds start to overcome its fear of gunfire is a great idea. I would carry the gun, but I would not shoot.

Watch the dog closely and let the dog's reactions guide your actions regarding gun training and de-senstitization. The dog will tell you with its body language, with its eyes, if it is ready for any more pressure or if you need to back off and go have fun.

When the time is right, after twenty or thirty outings, fire a capgun or blank gun with acorn crimps while the dog is in full chase and see what happens.
After the season, I might enlist a friend to go with you, so the dog can get to where it knows that another hunter is not something to fear. Go slowly, be patient, be gentle, but be persistent. If the dog has a good amount of desire to find birds, there is every reason to believe that this can be overcome. As cj said...do not be afraid to get some help from local trainers.

I am sorry for coming down on you so hard...but maybe, just maybe, someone else might read some of this and they will be able to avoid my mistake.

RayG

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:07 pm

partyofone wrote:So Maverick and I went out in the yard today and played his favorite game. I hide pheasant wings and he finds them. He is still super excited to "get the birdies." I'm sure he will be fine. I just need to slow down and go his pace. He likes to be with just me in the field and I should have respected his wishes. Actually, I prefer it that way too.

If this is true you need to get it corrected now rather than later, other wise you will never be able to hunt with anyone with your dog. Socialize it and it should be happy with other people and other dogs. It is important even if you do hunt mostly alone. But back off with the gun as everyone is telling you and start back at the beginning when you start shooting again. And I would do it fairly soon rather than let the dog spend weeks or months thinking guns are bad.

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:28 pm

partyofone...any picts of Maverick...stories are ALWAYS better with pictures...especially pups. Where are you from and where did you get your pup? I have had multiple setters myself and currently have two...

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:27 pm

Mountaineer's post is right on. No gunfire, just go out and play. Start alone in the field but spend time around other people and dogs (controlled dogs!!!) when NOT hunting. Pup needs to get used to groups and other dogs, just not everything all at once. Back up and keep things slow and fun. If you are adding something new in, do it one thing at a time, and only after the old stuff is fun and pup loves things. New things can include, new location, different types of birds, different weather, more people, new people, other dogs, new noises, smells.... Even flushing birds. Surprising to me how many people have out dogs on wings and dead birds and then think that is all the bird exposure needed. The sound and startling effect of a flushing live bird is unique. Many dogs LOVE it but some dogs are not sure at first. Think like a dog

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:33 pm

I'm sorry that happened. I'd hate to list the mistakes I made with my first dog. Soounds like you're on the good path now. Let us know how it goes.

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