chasing deer

[minigooch]

How have you dealt with your dog chasing deer ? Moxie is a male GSP almost a year old and loves to chase deer when we bump them which is atleast a couple times a week. Of course I never see them during hunting season. I do use an e collar but when he sees the deer it doesn't seem to have an effect even when I crank it up. He is well behaved besides this but seems to forget all commands and behavior when they prey drive kicks in but he's had a great first bird season. Thanks in advance. Mike

[gonehuntin']

I'd say there's something seriously wrong with your collar or the way you'e putting it on him if you don't roll him in his tracks when you hold down the button.

[polmaise]

I would say there was something seriously wrong with your approach to training rather than the tool you are using or the way you are using it.

[minigooch]

I should also say this is my first hunting dog. Thanks, gone hunting, you may be right because my buddy seems to think I don't put it on tight enough.When you say" roll him in his tracks" I assume you mean turn him around ? Polmaise I am unsure what your point is. I am looking for a little help or advice ,just in case you misunderstood my post,

[gonehuntin']

The ecollar should sit high on the dog's head, directly behind the ears, receiver to the side. It should be just snug, not tight. Set the collar on high. When the dog takes of after a deer and you are CERTAIN, meaning you can SEE the dog chasing the deer, just hold the button down without saying a word. The dog should scream, spin circles, and come runn9ing back to you. Hold the button down for five seconds. When the dog comes back to you, juust keep walking like nothing happened. The dog will think the nasty old deer did it. Don't have any compassion for him.

Polmaise doesn't like ecollars, don't worry about it. To each his own.

[polmaise]

Polmaise I am unsure what your point is. I am looking for a little help or advice ,just in case you misunderstood my post,

My advice and the best help you could get is go see a trainer who is experienced in the issue you have who can see what 'is' or 'Is not' going on with your training .
.....
Gonehuntin doesn't know me and certainly doesn't know what I 'like' or 'Not like' ..

[gonehuntin']

Whats to know Polmaise? The dog chases trash........trash break it.

[shags]

Exactly as GH says. Trash break the dog.

Be sure snug is snug when you buckle the collar. Allow for one or at most two fingers between the collar and the dog's skin. The prongs must have good contact in order for the collar to do its job.

Set your collar on high before you even leave the yard. Be careful not to bump the buttons though. If the collar is ready, your timing will be better and you won't get all nervous and fumbly when the dog is in full chase.

When the dog chases, SAY NOTHING. Just light him up. He should think the deer are shooting lightning bolts from their behinds. It sounds bad, but better to give him a few seconds of electricity than to be scraping him up off a road, or having a mean buck or doe turn on him during rut or fawning season.

As the dog returns to you, keep your mouth shut. Do not feel sorry, do not comfort him, do not check him over. LIfe goes on.

Have that collar on the dog every time you take him out. One good trash breaking session might do it, but some dogs have thicker skulls than others. You know you have it when you jump a herd and the dog stands and watches them go. Even then, a refresher might be in order somewhere down the line.

Good luck.

[ezzy333]

Whats to know Polmaise? The dog chases trash........trash break it.

Exactly right, same as snake avoidance or porky avoidance. It is a completely different use than how we use it in normal training. I don't think I ever held it for 5 seconds but will admit I never times it.

[polmaise]

Curiously enough ?
I take a different approach based on the OP .
If the dog and handler both know 'heel' then they should be able to walk through a herd of Deer.
If the dog and handler both work with a communication like 'Stop whistle' for example? :roll: any encounter with deer expected or otherwise could be 'trained for' by opportunity ?..Just a thought.
..
If the use of collar on high before one goes anywhere then where is there to go ?
I would suggest that CC has not been done and a whole barrow load of yard work missed , by most

[ezzy333]

Curiously enough ?
I take a different approach based on the OP .
If the dog and handler both know 'heel' then they should be able to walk through a herd of Deer.
If the dog and handler both work with a communication like 'Stop whistle' for example? :roll: any encounter with deer expected or otherwise could be 'trained for' by opportunity ?..Just a thought.
..
If the use of collar on high before one goes anywhere then where is there to go ?
I would suggest that CC has not been done and a whole barrow load of yard work missed , by most

Robert, I think most of us find it difficult to heel a dog that is 200 or 300 yards away and possibly out of sight when the chase starts. Much better to stop the desire than it is to correct the desire.

[polmaise]

Robert, I think most of us find it difficult to heel a dog that is 200 or 300 yards away and possibly out of sight when the chase starts. Much better to stop the desire than it is to correct the desire.

Good 'Point' ezzy333!..
A very well known trainer of pointing breeds and 'infamous' in Europe but lives just but a few miles from here always said ''Does it stop on the whistle, they can all hunt for themselves , they don't need you for that ,but do they Hunt with you?"..
................
I'll get my coat

[Sharon]

I should also say this is my first hunting dog. Thanks, gone hunting, you may be right because my buddy seems to think I don't put it on tight enough.When you say" roll him in his tracks" I assume you mean turn him around ? Polmaise I am unsure what your point is. I am looking for a little help or advice ,just in case you misunderstood my post,

AS gone huntin 'said, there's a time for using the e collar at a normally unacceptable level for "trash breaking ". I use it for deer and porcupine .

[klewis]

[quote="gonehuntin'"]The ecollar should sit high on the dog's head, directly behind the ears, receiver to the side. It should be just snug, not tight. Set the collar on high. When the dog takes of after a deer and you are CERTAIN, meaning you can SEE the dog chasing the deer, just hold the button down without saying a word. The dog should scream, spin circles, and come runn9ing back to you. Hold the button down for five seconds. When the dog comes back to you, juust keep walking like nothing happened. The dog will think the nasty old deer did it. Don't have any compassion for ]
big # 1

[polmaise]

Ahhh! Coat back on
You mean like an aversive tool like 'sheep chasing' ?

[ezzy333]

Robert, I think most of us find it difficult to heel a dog that is 200 or 300 yards away and possibly out of sight when the chase starts. Much better to stop the desire than it is to correct the desire.

Good 'Point' ezzy333!..
A very well known trainer of pointing breeds and 'infamous' in Europe but lives just but a few miles from here always said ''Does it stop on the whistle, they can all hunt for themselves , they don't need you for that ,but do they Hunt with you?"..
................
I'll get my coat

And in this case and a thousand others just like it the dog may hunt perfectly with you till it flushes a deer and then it forgets you exist for a bit. That is exactly why this post exists. Someone was asking for help training his dog to hunt with him instead of chasing deer and several of us explained a quick way to correct the situation. Think that is called training over there as well as over here.

[minigooch]

Thanks to all for the advice. I always kept receiver on the throat not to the side so on our walk/run tomorrow I'll try it on the side. Porcupines are a concern to me as well because the area I hunt in Maine has plenty. I have never seen one here in Ma. but my furry little buddy has been sprayed by a skunk 3 times in his short time but that my be a different post. Thanks Mike

[Sharon]

BIg fine up here if your dog is seen chasing a deer. Licenses available for wounded deer tracking.

[getzapped]

The ecollar should sit high on the dog's head, directly behind the ears, receiver to the side. It should be just snug, not tight. Set the collar on high. When the dog takes of after a deer and you are CERTAIN, meaning you can SEE the dog chasing the deer, just hold the button down without saying a word. The dog should scream, spin circles, and come runn9ing back to you. Hold the button down for five seconds. When the dog comes back to you, juust keep walking like nothing happened. The dog will think the nasty old deer did it. Don't have any compassion for him.

Polmaise doesn't like ecollars, don't worry about it. To each his own.

This is exactly how I broke my beagle from running deer.

[Neil]

What brand and model of e collar? At what range? That may be the problem.

[minigooch]

It is a garmin delta.I don't always see the deer(typical thick New England woods) but can usually tell by how he is running and barking.When he chased them on Thursday I saw them. The range varies but Thurs was less than 100 yards . I once hunted out of a deer camp in Vermont where the owner told us if we saw a dog chasing deer .. shoot it. I would rather "trash break "my dog as gone hunting says.

[Neil]

It is a garmin delta.I don't always see the deer(typical thick New England woods) but can usually tell by how he is running and barking.When he chased them on Thursday I saw them. The range varies but Thurs was less than 100 yards . I once hunted out of a deer camp in Vermont where the owner told us if we saw a dog chasing deer .. shoot it. I would rather "trash break "my dog as gone hunting says.

I am not personally familiar with Delta, but it is from a good company and should function to at least a couple hundred yards, even in the woods. So make sure it is functioning properly and do as instructed.

[kcbullets]

I am familiar with the Garmin Delta. The one I had worked ok in the yard when the dog was less excited, less occupied, and less hard headed. However in the field, it was useless. It did not have a high enough setting for the stimulus to effect the dog. I tried it on two different dogs, both different breeds, and both dogs had entirely different motors. I would not own another Delta. I suspect you need a better unit, personally I prefer a TT Pro model, but regardless one that can send the stimulus needed to trash break. My Delta also has the bark eliminator too, and it did not work either.. Just my experience with the Delta...

[gonehuntin']

Polmaise, many times we have no idea if the dog is actually chasing a deer. We hunt in dense swamps and aspen slash where you can't see 50 yards. You have to be able to trust the dog. It's a pretty good bet that if the dog is working at 100 yards, then suddenly 150, then 180, then 250, he's chasing a deer. A lot of times we never really know which is why it is so important to trash break him in a field where you can see what's happening. Thereafter you can trust him in a swamp, where he can't be seen.

We have some very difficult hunting conditions back here for our grouse and woodcock. Trusting the dog is all important because you rarely see him.

[Sharon]

Very good point that hasn't been mentioned. I wouldn't use a trash- breaking level if I can't actually see the dog. Fix that problem when you can see the dog.

[Neil]

I am familiar with the Garmin Delta. The one I had worked ok in the yard when the dog was less excited, less occupied, and less hard headed. However in the field, it was useless. It did not have a high enough setting for the stimulus to effect the dog. I tried it on two different dogs, both different breeds, and both dogs had entirely different motors. I would not own another Delta. I suspect you need a better unit, personally I prefer a TT Pro model, but regardless one that can send the stimulus needed to trash break. My Delta also has the bark eliminator too, and it did not work either.. Just my experience with the Delta...

This is important information and explains the problem.

[cbump]

I am familiar with the Garmin Delta. The one I had worked ok in the yard when the dog was less excited, less occupied, and less hard headed. However in the field, it was useless. It did not have a high enough setting for the stimulus to effect the dog. I tried it on two different dogs, both different breeds, and both dogs had entirely different motors. I would not own another Delta. I suspect you need a better unit, personally I prefer a TT Pro model, but regardless one that can send the stimulus needed to trash break. My Delta also has the bark eliminator too, and it did not work either.. Just my experience with the Delta...

Recently got rid of my delta for all the exact same reasons.

[birddogger]

Whats to know Polmaise? The dog chases trash........trash break it.

And when done right and timed right, it normally only takes one time. A very quick and permanent fix that could very well save the dog's life.

Charlie

[minigooch]

kc bullets I think you are right on ! It is great in the yard but get out in the field add a distraction and some distance its just not enough. I had a chance to use it today and had little effect.I made sure it had a full charge and was on properly. May be I can sell it on ebay to someone who is just doing yard training. Thanks all for the advice and lesson on "trash breaking" !

[kcbullets]

Yessir. Best advice I can give you is sell the Delta and get one that is known to work well in the field. Then follow the above advice on trash breaking. One or two times with a quality e-collar and problem solved. Good luck.

PS-i hope the Garmins that replicate the TT Pro Models are as good as the TT. I am not sold on Garmin e-collars. Garmin needs to leave a tool that works well alone. just my 2 cents

[cbump]

Minigooch, I was able to sell mine fairly quickly on 24hourcampfire for $75. Just mention it's not great for big running dogs and that it would make a good backup collar.

[polmaise]

Robert, I think most of us find it difficult to heel a dog that is 200 or 300 yards away and possibly out of sight when the chase starts. Much better to stop the desire than it is to correct the desire.

Good 'Point' ezzy333!..
A very well known trainer of pointing breeds and 'infamous' in Europe but lives just but a few miles from here always said ''Does it stop on the whistle, they can all hunt for themselves , they don't need you for that ,but do they Hunt with you?"..
................
I'll get my coat

And in this case and a thousand others just like it the dog may hunt perfectly with you till it flushes a deer and then it forgets you exist for a bit. That is exactly why this post exists. Someone was asking for help training his dog to hunt with him instead of chasing deer and several of us explained a quick way to correct the situation. Think that is called training over there as well as over here.

Forgive me (slightly?) I was using the thread and the OP's original situation (apologies) to gain the reaction and answers that I have seen
You may or may not know in my country right now there is a movement at government level to ban the e-collar totally!! no matter who uses it or the reasons in conditioning training or aversive/correction as described including 'livestock chasing' .Although the collar as a tool is not so common or widely accepted in my country as it is in the USA, the situations and issues are parallel and identical. You see. my point is that if this tool is by law removed ,then there will definitely be dogs that will lose their lives due to already existing laws in place. Argumentation and justification by those who have already had experience in this can and will help the (few people) on this side of the pond who 'Do understand' the concept and value of the tool in the right hands to prevent and help the dog that undoubtedly will be in this situation at one time ! The owners however will never learn :roll: .....That's a work in progress for all the new wave 'Politically correct' trainers

[ezzy333]

Robert, I am not arguing what may happen in the future in your country but trying to give good information to the poster on how to solve his problem now.

[bonasa]

Do a little "scouting" find a golf course, housing development, farm where there are deer close to the road and not too spooky. Stop the car and checkcord the dog near them, when he chases make the correction, by checking, turning and going the otherway. Do it again and again. Do all this with the ecollar next. Now run the dog as if you are hunting in an area that it will encounter deer , you can see it the whole time and use your ecollar to curb it.

Say nothing. If he looks at them mid-stride but turns to go with you, you did it right. Tucking tail, ears and cowering, you did to much. Not hard, no big deal, be persistant and consistent. Soon he will ignore them and you never knew there was a deer there, while keeping birds on the mind. No commands, the dog will see the deer and associate the correction with the deer and avoid it on its own, 1 yard or 250 yards from you.

I despise the Delta collars. Fail on TT/ Garmin for making this.

[ezzy333]

Bonasa, your deer are a lot tamer than our deer evidently. I have never found deer willing to be part of a training program over and over. And it sounds like you are ending up doing exactly what I proposed as the first thing to do.

Ezzy

[Setters Hawth]

Lol crank up the heat when he starts to chase if the collar works he will be broke real soon! good luck!!