French Pointing dog

[polmaise]

Fancy name ? Or what makes it 'different' ?
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/braquedubourbonnais.htm

[Becassier]

To answer your question: Yes to the "Fancy" name and Yes to just a little "different"

[polmaise]

vive la difference
But 'What is it' ?

[High Voltage]

The Braque du Bourbonnais (brock-do-bor-bon-NAY) is one of the most ancient French pointers originally out of Bourbon, a region of central France. The breed was already known in 1598 as a dog skillful at hunting quail.

Authors described the breed as a pleasant companion of the hunter, of rustic and healthy appearance, born with a short tail, showing a white coat with widespread pale brown or fawn fine ticking. The breeders wanted to impose an original coat of “faded lilac” and also of being born with a naturally short tail. The dogs that differed cosmetically with tails or spots were not bred. With such strict selections on a breed with a reduced gene pool, they became nearly extinct. Between 1963 and 1973 there were no registrations with L.O.F.

With the dog being bred on appearance alone, the hunting instincts were sacrificed. In 1970, under the influence and direction of Michel Comte, a team of breeders took on the task of helping the survival of the Bourbonnais Pointing Dog. With the acceptance of spots and docked tails, the hunting instincts were brought back. The first Bourbonnais was imported into the US in the late 1980's. Marc Sudret (Pech de Cayrol) was the breeder under Francoise Sarret's (Croix Saint Loup) kennel name.

I got this for the Rufnit Kennel website http://www.rufnitkennels.com/
I have got to see a lot of the dogs from Rufnit over the past 12 years or so and have hunted over some.

[chiendog]

Dog breeds come and go. Some take centuries to develop and others are created almost overnight. Some slowly fade away and others disappear in the blink of an eye. For a very few breeds, there can even be a sort of resurrection. The Braque du Bourbonnais is one such breed. There are references to it as far back as the 16th century, but it had disappeared by the 1960s. Today, thanks to the efforts of a group of breeders led by a man of vision, it has returned.

Read the full story here: http://pointingdogblog.blogspot.ca/2012 ... ais_5.html

[chiendog]

Should also mention that Braque is not pronounced "brock' (at least in French). It is closer to 'brak' (rhymes with track, crack etc.) more info here:

http://pointingdogblog.blogspot.ca/2014 ... omato.html

[polmaise]

Yea, great copies and pastes from google posted by others .
But 'what makes it different'?

[41magsnub]

How does it compare to another breed, to say a <plucks wildly at the air> GSP just to start?

[Becassier]

Officially: the combination of size, coat color, shape and natural short tail or the absent of tail, offers a combination that gives this breed a very unique look. It’s natural search that is best described as a medium gallop with the ability to change directions and pace suddenly with the stability of a polo pony.

IMO: The breed offers me a Brittany (which I truly love) with a short coat, crossed with a German Short hair, with more emphasis on upland and less emphasis on fur, closer in size to the Brittany. They have a strong affection toward their owners combined with what I describe as a very acute intellect.

Short and simple they are an efficient hunting breed that has not been altered to trial or competition to date and it is unlikely they will be in the near future.

We have found them the perfect match for our needs, grouse and woodcock. But have been told by others that they can adapt to western chucker hunting.

The challenging part of describing their differences, is that it may be interpreted that I am insinuating that they are better than another breed, which is simply not the case.

What they offer is what the Brittany’s did 35 years ago, a gentleman’s hunting companion. With the short coat and the muscular strength of a German Shorthair. They can easily be an 80 to 250 meter dog, a dog willing to hunt as a “team” with their sole purpose to please their owner.

We have been involved with the breed for 14 years, they have become our passion.

[chiendog]

...a Brittany (which I truly love) with a short coat, crossed with a German Short hair, with more emphasis on upland and less emphasis on fur, closer in size to the Brittany. They have a strong affection toward their owners combined with what I describe as a very acute intellect.

BINGO!!!!!!

[Becassier]

...a Brittany (which I truly love) with a short coat, crossed with a German Short hair, with more emphasis on upland and less emphasis on fur, closer in size to the Brittany. They have a strong affection toward their owners combined with what I describe as a very acute intellect.

BINGO!!!!!!

Yay!!

[chiendog]

I am not sure if the remark was directed at me, but just to be clear, I did not copy/paste anything from google . The links I provided were to articles I wrote myself, on my blog. The article about the B du B was based on what I wrote in my book Pointing Dogs Volume One. I include an entire chapter on the breed in the book and it is based on information (and photos) I gathered in France (and elsewhere) after interviewing a numnber of breeders/owners of B du B's, including the fellow who more or less singlehandedly recreated the breed in the 70's.

Bottom line: there are some absolutely terrific Braques du Bourbonnais out there. The breed is as close to an 'out of the box' upland hunter as you could wish for. I may even get a B du B some day. But for hunters that need/want hard core duck dogs or versatiles to track a deer or take on a boar, the B du B is probably not the best choice (nor is any other French pointing breed, they are all basically upland bird dogs that like to fetch). So, what is the difference between a Braque du Bourbonnais and, say a GSP? Well it basically comes down to the differences in the hunting cultures in which they were developed. West of the Rhine river (France, Spain etc.), pointing dogs are basically used only to point and (maybe) fetch upland birds. Period. East of the Rhine (Germany, Czech etc.), pointing dogs are used to do that and, even more often, to hunt furred game (big and small).

[bhulisa]

Thank you two for the good explanations Interesting breed. Is the tail genuinely "naturally short"? Have read this about the Brittany, but never heard of any actually born that way (first hand).

[Trekmoor]

The Brittany breed does carry the tail-less gene (sometimes called the "death gene.") It is a very strong gene in some lines of brittanies. I have seen a litter of Irish setter X Brittany pups and some of those pups were born minus a tail.

A few other dog breeds carry the same gene.

Bill T.

[DonF]

That is an interesting dog. Would like to see one some day. Solid looking sucker!

[chiendog]

The Braque du Bourbonnais is indeed a breed that can be born with no tail, or just a stump of a tail (or a full tail). In fact, in most breeds where this genetic trait is present (Brittany and others), breeders do their best to avoid it since one of 4 possible combinations of the genes responsible is actually fatal to the unborn pups. But the official position of the Braque du Bourbonnais club (and its breeders) has sort of gone back and forth over the years. In the early days it was not only encouraged, but mandatory to have the naturally short tail in any dog being bred. Then the rules were relaxed and dogs with cropped tails were allowed to breed. Nowadays there is an increased interest in naturally short tails since there is a ban on tail cropping in many countries, so breeders are now actively selecting for dogs with short (or absent) tails. They don't seem to be too worried about the lethal combination since any pup that has it will not actually survive birth.

more info here: http://www.braquedubourbonnais.info/en/ ... netics.htm

[polmaise]

The Braque du Bourbonnais is indeed a breed that can be born with no tail, or just a stump of a tail (or a full tail). In fact, in most breeds where this genetic trait is present (Brittany and others), breeders do their best to avoid it since one of 4 possible combinations of the genes responsible is actually fatal to the unborn pups. But the official position of the Braque du Bourbonnais club (and its breeders) has sort of gone back and forth over the years. In the early days it was not only encouraged, but mandatory to have the naturally short tail in any dog being bred. Then the rules were relaxed and dogs with cropped tails were allowed to breed. Nowadays there is an increased interest in naturally short tails since there is a ban on tail cropping in many countries, so breeders are now actively selecting for dogs with short (or absent) tails. They don't seem to be too worried about the lethal combination since any pup that has it will not actually survive birth.

more info here: http://www.braquedubourbonnais.info/en/ ... netics.htm

Thank you .

[Becassier]

We own both types of Bourbonnais those born with the long tail (than cropped) and one born with a natural short tail. We had a litter of 10 pups last year born from the male that is a natural short tail and a mom that is a long tail. 6 of the 10 were born with a natural short tail ranging from no tail at all to about the length of a GSP when cropped. The other 4 were docked, according to the BdB standard.

Most of the documented information about the BB history starts between 1850-1880. At that time it was thought to be a local variety of the ancestral Braque Francais, which differed from the original breed in that they were almost always born tail-less and had a special coat (lilac, wine dregs, and peach blossom).

This information thou interesting offers us little for today’s breeding selection due to the fact the breed was all but lost.
With the information we have collected, we have chosen not to breed short tail to short tail. My conversations with breeders in France is that breeding Short tail to Short tail is fine, but to breed no tail to no tail will produce the TT allele that is the lethal gene. The only way to confirm this would be through experimental breeding’s, which we are not interested in.

The short tail is unique, so is their color, but too much emphasis was placed on those two things to the detriment of the breed, in days gone by. While we feel the natural short tail gene is important and we don’t want to lose it, we do not breed for it or color of the dog. Since it is in the middle of the “recreation” there are a host of other things to worry about. It is like pouring the foundation of a home and worrying about the color of the curtains you will be hanging BEFORE the home is built. The Bourbonnais is still in the “footing” stage of their “recreation”.

Plus I haven’t seen a dog yet to point with its tail
I have posted pictures from last years litter, the first is a close up on 2 short tails, the 6 that were born with short tails you can see the differences in the lenght and a picture of them all together.



Jack their daddy ~ Natural short tail

Bearie 1/2 brother to the litter pictured ~ Natural short tail

[crackerd]

Chien, betcha Monsieur Polmaise would really like to know what makes your Ponto different...you know the "Point" Audemer epagneul.

MG

[chiendog]

Well I guess the thing that makes the Ponto, and the other French spaniel breeds, different to folks in North America (and the UK), is that they point...which seems strange to many since 'spaniel' is more or less synonymous with 'flushing dog' in English. But the real story is kinda complicated. I do my best to explain it all here: http://pointingdogblog.blogspot.ca/2014 ... point.html

[polmaise]

I am not sure if the remark was directed at me, but just to be clear, I did not copy/paste anything from google . The links I provided were to articles I wrote myself, on my blog.

I personally have no way of knowing that ''chiendog'' posting on this forum is any article written by the same?.
Genuinely and seriously interested in the breed ,because I know nothing about it ,other than what can be found with a 'google search' . Thanks for your contribution. Most helpful.

[chiendog]

No problem, always happy to share the info I have And to find more information on anyone posting, check the signature (mine is a link to my blog) and/or click on the avatar to see the profile. Some don't have much info, but others have links to websites etc. Mine goes to my publishing company and book. www.dogwilling.ca If you want to find out more about the Braque du Bourbonnais, contact the club for the breed in the US http://www.bdbca.org/home.html , they are good people with good dogs.

[bhulisa]

Thank you for the explanations! Trudi

[High Voltage]

Yea, great copies and pastes from google posted by others .
But 'what makes it different'?

Mine was not a google copy & post. As I stated I got it for Rufnit's website. Sorry I was at lunch and didn't have time to put it in my own words.