Pups first wild bird (chukar) season over what's next?

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JJT
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Pups first wild bird (chukar) season over what's next?

Post by JJT » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:41 pm

Continue the wild bird approach or work with some pigeons this summer?

My llewellin pup and I finished our first season in utah. We hunted from november through february. He hunted from his 6th through his 9th month of life. He was only exposed to wild chukars. We got out quite a bit he covered over 350 miles this season not bad for two rookies.

He is searching well, ranging 100-300 yards, finding coveys and towards the end of the season was flash pointing and holding some points for 15 seconds or so depending on scenting conditions.

Being my first pointing dog experience I am torn between two training philosophies/strategies.

First is the instinctive training method Ben williams (Bird dog) which I guess I have used so far show them enough wild birds and they will eventually become steady and become a shooting pointer...

Second is to try some pigeon work this summer following the lines of Mo Lindley with a check cord and e collar and teaching not to chase while letting the bird be the teacher.

I am assuming next season my pup will have matured more mentally and will possibly learn at a faster rate. I figured we both may as well begin to figure these birds out. Both being rookies at the wild chukar game. It is addicting!!!!

I would appreciate any thoughts/experience and suggestions on bringing a pup into his second season. I also hope to chase some mountain and sage grouse next fall here in utah.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks JJT

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cmc274
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Pups first wild bird (chukar) season over what's next?

Post by cmc274 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:54 am

I think it depends on your end goal and patience level. If all you want is a hunt able dog, I'd skip the pigeon work and wait til next season and keep hunting him and killing birds he does good work on. Were you able to kill any of the birds he flash pointed?

If you end goal is a dog that's steady to wing and shot, this summer might be a great time to introduce some manners. I wouldn't be stressed about achieving any specific milestone as the dog is quite young.

41magsnub
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Re: Pups first wild bird (chukar) season over what's next?

Post by 41magsnub » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:27 am

Sounds like you started about the same way I did. I got my pup out hunting with a couple of trained bird dogs starting at a little over 4 months. She would run behind the adults, trying to keep up, and honor their points (I got lucky that she is a natural backer). We let her retrieve a bird now and then, and she got to check out all the birds the other dogs brought back. Towards the end of the season she was figuring things out when I would take her out by herself, she would flash point then creep in. I was able to shoot a couple of birds over her before she started creeping.

In the off season we worked on whoa and steady. Birds weren't really an option in my living situation so I did it with tennis balls, frozen birds, and a launcher - she loves tennis balls almost as much as birds.

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Gordon Guy
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Re: Pups first wild bird (chukar) season over what's next?

Post by Gordon Guy » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:09 am

Now that you know she hunts and points. I would take this opportunity to teach her "whoa". Teaching her to "Whoa" or "to Stand her birds" can be done in several ways. That way when, and if, she starts creeping in on her birds next season you can stop the behavior. Do it before the creeping becomes a habit.

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Becassier
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Re: Pups first wild bird (chukar) season over what's next?

Post by Becassier » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:09 pm

Sounds like your well on your way, you let your puppy be a puppy and let wild birds develop its drive
Gordon Guy wrote:Now that you know she hunts and points. I would take this opportunity to teach her "whoa". Teaching her to "Whoa" or "to Stand her birds" can be done in several ways.
I respectfully have to disagree with the quote; this statement is too vague and can lead to a piece meal program.

The OP specifically asked about 2 EXCELLENT training methods in which he was considering picking from.

The question I have for the OP:
Do you have the resources and the quality of dogs Ben has, in order to implement his methods?
If so, personally this would be my first choice, but many of us don’t have those resources.

If the answer is no, than Mo’s is an excellent alternative.

Since you are new to training, whatever method you pick; spend every minute possible to understand the method, so you can implement it.

If you choose Mo’s method I would suggest you read anything Martha Greenlee has written. You can go to her web-site http://www.pineyrunkennels.com to order her book “Training tips your bird dog will love” she also has available “Training with Mo” and visit: http://www.steadywithstyle.com

mask
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Re: Pups first wild bird (chukar) season over what's next?

Post by mask » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:46 pm

I would not even consider Ben's book as it has little to do with training. It may be fine if the pup does everything right on it's own but that is seldom the case. It may be at your pups stage his book is not worth the paper it is written on. As stated Mo's or Dave walker's books are excellent. have fun and be patient.

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ezzy333
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Re: Pups first wild bird (chukar) season over what's next?

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:00 pm

mask wrote:I would not even consider Ben's book as it has little to do with training. It may be fine if the pup does everything right on it's own but that is seldom the case. It may be at your pups stage his book is not worth the paper it is written on. As stated Mo's or Dave walker's books are excellent. have fun and be patient.
I never considered ben's book a training book but rather just an account of his hunting with his dogs. There is much training that happens in your everyday time spent with your dogs and we all do things differently. I have no doubt that Ben did like we all do and trained his dogs to behave as he wanted them to and I also have no doubt that what he did is different than I or anyone else would do. At the same time, Mo's book is about a tried and true training method that is on top of the everyday training occurrences that are just part of having a dog.

Ezzy

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zjohn14
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Post by zjohn14 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:05 pm

Jjt your story is sounds a lot like mine I have a 8 month old gsp that I actually got from Greenville sc so I know Mo an have been lucky enough to have a few free lessons from him an he actually helped me break my 18 month old male from being gun shy anyways I was lucky enough to put my dogs on ruffed grouse here in the app Mtns of nc. Where I was hunting had a really good population I've jumped as many as 7 birds in 3 hours which is really good for here. Both my dogs improved so much it was amazing. Anyway I'm sending my pups to Mo this spring mainly because I'm getting more in to field trails but if I were to of not gotten into trails an only were planning to hunt I would of just kept training my dog of wild birds. Putting a dog on wild birds does wonders for them I am so thankful that I have land with good wild bird population to hunt.

JJT
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Re: Pups first wild bird (chukar) season over what's next?

Post by JJT » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:05 pm

Thanks for the help and wisdom decision decisions

A few photos from our first season:

http://s722.photobucket.com/user/Judd_T ... i.jpg.html

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