National Bird Dog Circuit

Post Reply
ESS13
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:48 pm
Location: Fort Montgomery, NY

National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by ESS13 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:34 pm

Watching the National Bird Dog Circuit on TV with the pointing breeds. One of the dogs was put in a position where the handler needed to coordinate a blind retrieve, The handler or the dog could neither do a blind retrieve. The handler was allowed to take a tennis ball out of his vest and throw it towards the downed bird as a mark for the dog. I am sorry but that simply made me turn the TV right off. For that to be allowed in competition was a little cheesy. It made my stomach turn a bit.

Scott Linden
Rank: 3X Champion
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:44 pm
Location: Bend, OR

Re: National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by Scott Linden » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:09 pm

We never use tennis balls on my show. I make the cameramen "hunt dead," or no dinner that night.

ESS13
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:48 pm
Location: Fort Montgomery, NY

Re: National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by ESS13 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:46 pm

Best Wingshooting USA episode ever was when they had a contest winner on (father, daughter combo) from I believe New Jersey. The father named his daughter Hunter I assume since he loved to hunt. The entire show the guys daughter had some chances but never actually harvested a bird. Scott politely gave her some tips and safety pointers as the day went on which seemed to help. At the end of the show Hunter connects by shooting her first bird. Father and daughter (and viewers like myself) all cried in happiness. One of the closing scenes is Hunter calling back home to tell her mother that she was successful. Capture stuff like that on TV and then we all have to watch. That's how the next generation should experience hunting.

User avatar
ckfowler
Rank: 2X Champion
Posts: 416
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:05 pm
Location: W Ohio

Re: National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by ckfowler » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:55 am

Very few pointing dog owners train their dogs to do blind retrieves. Most are happy if the dog hunts dead and stands in the bird it brings it part way. In these competitions, the handler is not allowed to move so forced to manage this. I have seen some that train to hup and back just like retrievers but that is rare. Time is of the essence in the competition so efficiency is the word at that point. Golf balls, water bottles, even pieces of capped PVC with rocks in them to rattle are used. Every once in a while, the dog retrieves the thrown object instead, funny to everyone but the guy in the middle of the competition!

Love seeing shows that highlight introducing youth to the sport too. Several of the Tournament style venues have youth and ladies divisions for those that want to get into also competing. All good in different ways.

ESS13
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:48 pm
Location: Fort Montgomery, NY

Re: National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by ESS13 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:19 pm

I did not look at it from a pointing breed stand point. Thats true I never thought how little a blind retrieve would be needed for a pointer. The running clock adds a particular aspect to the competition as well.

Scott Linden
Rank: 3X Champion
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:44 pm
Location: Bend, OR

Re: National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by Scott Linden » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:27 pm

Hey ESS13 that is still one of my favorite episodes. We will have a similar story in September of this year's broadcasts.

Neil
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3187
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:46 pm
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by Neil » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:01 pm

I work a pointing dog an a blind retrieve the same way I do a relocation. Not as I do a retriever/spaniel, no whistle toots or hand signals, just my voice. "Here" to come, "all right" to go, and "whoop" to turn. I have never found it a big deal. I would never even think to carry a tennis ball.

User avatar
NEhomer
Rank: 4X Champion
Posts: 675
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:58 pm
Location: Western, MA

Re: National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by NEhomer » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:42 am

What ultimately disappoints me watching the NBDC is the fact that you simply cannot replicated the flush of a wild bird. Dogs catching weak planted birds is what gets me to turn it off.

User avatar
luvthemud
Rank: Champion
Posts: 328
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:54 pm
Location: The Holyland, WI

Re: National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by luvthemud » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:48 am

What television station broadcasts this?

User avatar
ckfowler
Rank: 2X Champion
Posts: 416
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:05 pm
Location: W Ohio

Re: National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by ckfowler » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:57 pm

Most places that run trials keep cover short so walking judges can see the dogs. Since live ammo events are scored partly on the number of birds found, everyone wants to make sure they have the same number of birds as the next guy, none walking out. To manage that in short/thin cover, birds are planted hard, sometimes asleep on their back. Makes things fair, everyone's birds are about guaranteed to be there but I hate this. Dogs are already smart enough to quickly learn the difference between wild and pen raised birds and know they can get away with crowding poultry. Birds placed this way are on top of cover instead of down on it, easier scenting but easy to see which can be a young dogs undoing. My dogs see a bird lying still on it's back and figure it is dead so just go ahead and retrieve. Most significant is that the live ammo event is billed as more closely resembling the average hunting experience, retrieve is important, handler walks, and in many events, missed shots harm scores. I don't find many birds on their backs in ankle high cover when I hunt, even state released birds get to some kind of cover, run and bust if pressured.

I host events for UFTA, have sanctioned with Bird Dog Challenge in the past and would again if my participants had interest. I have taken to putting language in my trial postings that birds will not be asleep on their backs, cover is kept high enough and thick enough to hold them. Dogs that crowd walking birds will bump them, mine has made that mistake too. Usually only takes once it twice and they learn, hopefully experiences from outside the competition. In Sept I am hosting an event with cash purse and $200 entry fee, birds will still not be asleep on their backs. Some guys will like that, others will complain that theirs were moving when found. As long as they are still in the field of play, that is just what birds do when not flying.

ESS13
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:48 pm
Location: Fort Montgomery, NY

Re: National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by ESS13 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:49 pm

I like CKfowler's response.

I know with me I havent seen it all and we are all used to or bias towards something. This is another form of competition and it has its rules and ways to make the competition fair. The more i look at the different forms to compete as "games" it makes more sense for some reason. Hunting could be looked at the same way too. In order to win you take advantage of what is given to you. Some days it may be different than others.

I believe I watched it on the Sportman Channel on Dish Network.

Scott Linden
Rank: 3X Champion
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:44 pm
Location: Bend, OR

Re: National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by Scott Linden » Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:31 pm

luvthemud wrote:What television station broadcasts this?
I think they follow or precede my show on Saturday nights on Pursuit.

Neil
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3187
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:46 pm
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by Neil » Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:26 am

Scott Linden wrote:
luvthemud wrote:What television station broadcasts this?
I think they follow or precede my show on Saturday nights on Pursuit.
Follows it.

User avatar
luvthemud
Rank: Champion
Posts: 328
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:54 pm
Location: The Holyland, WI

Re: National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by luvthemud » Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:37 pm

OK, thanks. Will have to see if I can get that channel.

ESS13
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:48 pm
Location: Fort Montgomery, NY

Re: National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by ESS13 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:43 pm

sorry Pursuit channel.

I really ate my words tonight watching the NBDC after Wingshooting USA. Some some great dog work and dogs on Wingshooting then some ridiculous shooting and dog work on NBDC. The womens flushing and pointing highlight were sick. One of the women made some serious crossing shots. Another handler basically broke down doing his post game interview because he was so proud, I think we can all relate. Then the NBDC shows a little clip of them helping a local ARC group. My 31 yr old brother has downs syndrome so that really hit my heart too. It was a very good hour of TV for sure.

Boomer
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 10:01 pm
Location: Fallon Nv.

Re: National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by Boomer » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:39 am

One of the ladies happened to be my daughter that ran one of my oldest dogs "Trakker" He is now 13 and still has the want to but just not fast enough to be a top competitor anymore. This was his last official run that he did and its on flim that I will allways have. Heading out this Wendsday for the BDC Nationals in Neb with a truck load of short tails to see what we can do......

ESS13
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:48 pm
Location: Fort Montgomery, NY

Re: National Bird Dog Circuit

Post by ESS13 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:46 pm

Very cool

Post Reply