Proper response

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Cicada
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Proper response

Post by Cicada » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:57 am

So yesterday my 15 month old pup is on the beach while I am working on the boat. My neighbor comes by with his dog and 2 other small Shitzu crosses all goes well for a while but then one of the Shitzu takes a nip at my pup and he responds with an aggressive nip or 2 of his own. My neighbor held the 2 dogs apart until things calmed down then I called my dog back into the boat.

Should I have jumped out of the boat and handled my own pup or was I better off to stay my distance and avoid being apart of the situation? No harm no fowl :wink:


Grant

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Re: Proper response

Post by Sharon » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:32 pm

not an issue for you or the dog jmo

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Re: Proper response

Post by displaced_texan » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:13 pm

The dogs were separated, the specifics of how don't matter to me.

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Re: Proper response

Post by marsh » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:17 pm

I agree with the above.

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Re: Proper response

Post by Neil » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:48 am

I value my dogs, they are never off lead except when hunting. Had you done the same there would have been no threat, it only takes seconds for a tragedy.

But then I am still trying to understand this whole socialization think. Don't do dog parks, go in the back door at the vet's, rarely hunt with other dogs, and in a trial I try to gain the front.

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Re: Proper response

Post by 41magsnub » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:14 am

Neil wrote:I value my dogs, they are never off lead except when hunting. Had you done the same there would have been no threat, it only takes seconds for a tragedy.

But then I am still trying to understand this whole socialization think. Don't do dog parks, go in the back door at the vet's, rarely hunt with other dogs, and in a trial I try to gain the front.
Some of us aren't hermits

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Re: Proper response

Post by RayGubernat » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:39 am

41magsnub wrote:
Neil wrote:I value my dogs, they are never off lead except when hunting. Had you done the same there would have been no threat, it only takes seconds for a tragedy.

But then I am still trying to understand this whole socialization think. Don't do dog parks, go in the back door at the vet's, rarely hunt with other dogs, and in a trial I try to gain the front.
Some of us aren't hermits

I cannot speak to all dog, but it has been my experience with competitive field dogs that they are generally pretty driven. They may not start a fight, but they ueually will bnot back down and if left to their own devices...will finish it.

I don't need that, so I try to avoid situations where the dog could get into trouble. For example, I have never been to a dog park in my life and almost certainly never will. I believe they are a prescription for disaster. All it takes is one A**hole with a dog that does not have manners(and it is usually some MACHO moron with a MACHO breed of dog) and there will be blood on the turf.

But when it is one dog against a pack of three or four bird dogs that have been raised together and hunted together all their lives, ...it ain't gonna work out well for that one dog. I don't care HOW tough the dog. Been there...seen that. It weren't a pretty sight and the other dog's owner was VERY unhappy. My dogs did not start the fight, but they "bleep" sure finished it.

But, I do not enjoy trips to the vet or the ER for stitches, and I do not enjoy dealing with the aggressive behaviors and subsequent discipline problems that such encounters invariably bring to the surface, soooo I try not to get into those situations in the first place.


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Re: Proper response

Post by nevermind » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:16 am

Those that have never been to a dog park...I know the feeling of apprehension. I had the same feeling when visiting my daughter and she suggested we take our dogs to a dog park near by. She had taken her dog there many times before for exercise. I was cautious at first and kept my dog on a leash even though he was ready to run and have fun. I finally turned him loose ( he's never been aggressive, but won't let another dog dominate him either) anyway the experience was different that I imagined... all the dogs (50-70) were behaving well. Seemed since the dogs weren't on their own turf there wasn't anything to protect and they were just running and exploring. That's my experience with a dog park ( I've been to that one a few more times). I would make sure my dog was up on it's vaccinations, before going to the dog park.

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Re: Proper response

Post by nevermind » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:31 am

Sorry Cicada...I got into the dog park and didn't respond to your situation. I think you did what most would have done.. the dogs were separated an the quarrel was over, sometime I think dog owners escalate the confrontation by yelling and not quietly separating the dogs.

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Re: Proper response

Post by Elkhunter » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:33 am

I think socialization is huge! I want anyone to be able to walk up to my dogs, feed em, take their feed from them etc. I have 3 little girls that are around all the time, though I never leave them with the dogs unsupervised it makes me feel better knowing my dogs know I AM THE BOSS. I can feed em all at the same time with no issues, crate em together etc. Plus I like running them with strange dogs to prepare them for trials etc.

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Re: Proper response

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:49 am

I agree. There is no reason for a dog not to be socialized to the point I don't have to wonder how they will handle any given situation. Not only is an advantage to me but a huge advantage to the dog so it can relax also.

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Re: Proper response

Post by jetjockey » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:21 pm

I've made sure my trial brit has been well socialized as well. She's just fine around other dogs. With that said, they better not try and bother her in a trial. I always laugh when I see a dog head her way and try to sniff her or prove dominance. It always ends the exact same way, and I always feel sorry for the other dog before it even happens. She will NOT put up with that in a trial or when hunting. I have no problem with her in a dog park though.

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Re: Proper response

Post by shags » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:42 pm

LOL, Jet. I've had a couple boy dogs whose behavior benefitted from having their faces rearranged by a 8itch who had no patience with rude sniffing and tagging :lol:

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Re: Proper response

Post by 41magsnub » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:03 pm

Yep - One of the best things that happened to my dog in the realm of socialization was her first time out hunting at 4 months. She was honoring points like a champ and not gunshy so we let her run with the big dogs. She could only barely keep up with the adults so she wasn't the first dog to any bird. About mid day she decided she really wanted one of those interesting birds the other dogs were finding, so she snatched a pheasant out of the mouth of my buddy's brit mid retrieve and tried to run off with it. The brit took my dog down hard, nipped her on the snout and took the bird right back. Maddie was bleeding and crying for a few minutes, but didn't try to steal any more birds.

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Re: Proper response

Post by Sharon » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:25 pm

Neil wrote:I value my dogs, they are never off lead except when hunting. Had you done the same there would have been no threat, it only takes seconds for a tragedy.

But then I am still trying to understand this whole socialization think. Don't do dog parks, go in the back door at the vet's, rarely hunt with other dogs, and in a trial I try to gain the front.



Now that's funny! :)

I used to say "Don't go to the dog park!" then I got this short- legged JRT and went to the dog park, when I got bored with walking around the block. Been going for 2 years , only had one minor problem and have only seen a couple of fights , but the owners moved in quickly and it was over. The dogs LOVE playing at the dog park. Regular dog park users police their park. If you show up with a too aggressive /ready to fight dog , you will be shown the gate. :)

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Re: Proper response

Post by Cicada » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:09 pm

Thanks for all the pointers :wink:

I think I need to give some more socialization other than his 2 roommates

Grant

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Re: Proper response

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:21 pm

I would have jumped out of the boat out of pure reflex..

As for this dog park issue, if you are afraid to take your dog there, then your dog is not socialized enough. I have been to dog parks from California to New York and never had a problem.... I respect others opinion but I have never seen an incident out of hundreds of visits.

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Re: Proper response

Post by Neil » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:15 pm

Not sure I know what you all mean by socialized, my dogs have never been in a fight, not sure they would know how. Never had one, even as puppies, play with a bracemate. They hunt birds, that is their job, it is work. Serious work. And they are never off lead unless it is time to go to work.

My aversion to dog parks is not just about a possibly dog fight, it is about disease, germs, parasites, etc. I go in the back door at the vet's, tote my water (neither my dogs nor horses drink from communal troughs) nor go in stalls or kennels.

Of course I don't really care what others do, just the OP could have avoided the whole thing had his dog been on a lead, as rightly required by law most everywhere.

I have two priorities, keeping my dogs safe/healthy and winning, I try hard to do only those things that contribute to those goals.

Neil

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Re: Proper response

Post by CDN_Cocker » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:10 am

I agree I despise dog parks. I went a few times when the dogs were younger but there was always problems. The poor cocker I don't know what it is with him, but as soon as we'd go in the gate 9 times out of 10 a dog would come at him. And he's as soft as they come - as soon as he sees another dog he's on the ground on his back so its certainly not a dominance thing. Perhaps its just our dog park here but there are just a lot of dumb people with no control over their dogs and I have a low tolerance for stupidity. Not really one for keeping my mouth shut, so its just easier to go to other places. Generally if taking the dogs out to just burn off steam there are a few conservation areas close by that does the trick. We usually run into quite a few other folks with dogs and all up to this point have been well behaved and know how to socialize properly with other dogs. I think its probably the type of people - those out willing to walk the trails with their dogs are probably more active in the dog's life/training. At the dog park anyone with a dog shows up and just stands there while their nuisance runs wild.

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Re: Proper response

Post by Cicada » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:14 pm

Neil wrote:Not sure I know what you all mean by socialized, my dogs have never been in a fight, not sure they would know how. Never had one, even as puppies, play with a bracemate. They hunt birds, that is their job, it is work. Serious work. And they are never off lead unless it is time to go to work.

My aversion to dog parks is not just about a possibly dog fight, it is about disease, germs, parasites, etc. I go in the back door at the vet's, tote my water (neither my dogs nor horses drink from communal troughs) nor go in stalls or kennels.

Of course I don't really care what others do, just the OP could have avoided the whole thing had his dog been on a lead, as rightly required by law most everywhere.

I have two priorities, keeping my dogs safe/healthy and winning, I try hard to do only those things that contribute to those goals.

Neil
Just walking him more in the neighborhood meeting other dogs and people, but no dog parks. I guess I look at my dogs different than you, they get to go fishing and play with each other.
Hunting only last 3 months for me so I have the other 9 months to fill up their time.

Grant

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Re: Proper response

Post by luvthemud » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:07 am

Cicada wrote:
Neil wrote:Not sure I know what you all mean by socialized, my dogs have never been in a fight, not sure they would know how. Never had one, even as puppies, play with a bracemate. They hunt birds, that is their job, it is work. Serious work. And they are never off lead unless it is time to go to work.

My aversion to dog parks is not just about a possibly dog fight, it is about disease, germs, parasites, etc. I go in the back door at the vet's, tote my water (neither my dogs nor horses drink from communal troughs) nor go in stalls or kennels.

Of course I don't really care what others do, just the OP could have avoided the whole thing had his dog been on a lead, as rightly required by law most everywhere.

I have two priorities, keeping my dogs safe/healthy and winning, I try hard to do only those things that contribute to those goals.

Neil
Just walking him more in the neighborhood meeting other dogs and people, but no dog parks. I guess I look at my dogs different than you, they get to go fishing and play with each other.
Hunting only last 3 months for me so I have the other 9 months to fill up their time.

Grant

I am the same way. I don't do the dog park thing cause I don't have too, but my dog has a very active social life. Part of the fun of having a dog for me is taking him with me places.

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Re: Proper response

Post by cjhills » Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:19 am

Cicada
I would say you handle the situation right. Sometimes over reacting causes more problems.
I do not want my dogs to live in a controlled environment. The more they are exposed to the better they deal with issues. We travel a lot and hunt with different dogs and people. The dogs will be exposed to diseases, germs and social situations regardless of how careful you try to be. I see very little value in going in the back door at the vet, the sick dogs probably go in and out the back door. Unless you are the first dog to run in a trial your front running dog will be exposed to what ever the dog before you left behind. If your dog is obsessed with out running every dog you hunt with you probably hunt by yourself most of the time. Does the dog just lay in the Kennel when he is not training, hunting or trialing. Does not sound like much of a life to me.
You can not protect them from everything. So vaccinate and expose the dog to whatever physical and mental things he might run in to. He will deal with these things much better.
Never been to a dog park, but if that was my only option for exercise and socialization I would go. If I knew where to find one................Cj

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Re: Proper response

Post by Neil » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:09 am

I handle my dogs everyday of their lives, they have a 1 acre fenced play yard, a 2 acre fenced training area, and thousands of acres for patterning. They are very socialized - to me.

I only run in continuous course trials, true the germs are out there, but spread out over 3 - 5 thousand acres and are several hours old. You go into the waiting room of the vet, and no matter how clean they try to be, there is always urine, fecal, and spectrum about, and some nice meaning lady that wants her dog to say hi. We do no do the hi thing.

I am not a germaphobe, do not wear a mask in public, but I try to reduce (not eliminate) all risks to my dogs.

And still fail to see the value of socializing with strangers or allowing my dogs off lead, except to train, hunt, or trial.

Again, I don't care what any of you do, but do ask you do not let your dog out of your control if around me.

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Re: Proper response

Post by GWPtyler » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:01 pm

I guess I always like to have some sort of control over my dogs, whether that be a lead or e-collars. I take them for walks almost every day and push my son in his stroller. When we get to the park, I let them run -- but they have e-collars on. If there are other people around, bikes or dogs, I get them back and they heel until the coast is clear. So far no problems.

As far as dog parks go, we haven't been to one in three years. The last time, Remy came home with worms. Prior to that it was just way too much work trying to police all the untrained, belligerent dogs that were aggressive or bullies. Say whatever you want about establishing pecking orders, but I don't like watching owners sit back and watch while things escalate.

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Re: Proper response

Post by 41magsnub » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:09 pm

I learned my lesson about the local official dog park. It is right next to the university and it seems the trendy thing is to have a poorly trained german shepard or boxer that plays way too rough. My GWP's favorite game is to be chased by other dogs because she knows she's faster than most of them, except if she tries it there an entire pack of bigger dogs ends up chasing her and she gets scared. Then she tries to submit and the entire pack of dogs is on top of her. At that point she isn't having fun and there is way too much potential for it to go very badly.

There are unofficial dog parks around town on state land where the folks and dogs are much more friendly. I run into lots of folks with similar dogs that love to play the same way and it is in much smaller groups. And.. we find the occasional bird.

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Re: Proper response

Post by 41magsnub » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:10 pm

41magsnub wrote:I learned my lesson about the local official dog park. It is right next to the university and it seems the trendy thing is to have a poorly trained german shepard or boxer that plays way too rough. My GWP's favorite game is to be chased by other dogs because she knows she's faster than most of them, except if she tries it there an entire pack of bigger dogs ends up chasing her and she gets scared. Then she tries to submit and the entire pack of dogs is on top of her. At that point she isn't having fun and there is way too much potential for it to go very badly.

There are unofficial dog parks around town on state land where the folks and dogs are much more friendly. I run into lots of folks with similar dogs that love to play the same way and it is in much smaller groups. And.. we find the occasional bird.
Now, the dog park in my home town of Great Falls is a completely different story. It seems like there the dogs are mostly sporting breeds and play well together.

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Re: Proper response

Post by nevermind » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:04 am

41magsnub wrote:I learned my lesson about the local official dog park. It is right next to the university and it seems the trendy thing is to have a poorly trained german shepard or boxer that plays way too rough. My GWP's favorite game is to be chased by other dogs because she knows she's faster than most of them, except if she tries it there an entire pack of bigger dogs ends up chasing her and she gets scared. Then she tries to submit and the entire pack of dogs is on top of her. At that point she isn't having fun and there is way too much potential for it to go very badly.

There are unofficial dog parks around town on state land where the folks and dogs are much more friendly. I run into lots of folks with similar dogs that love to play the same way and it is in much smaller groups. And.. we find the occasional bird.
College kids and dogs ...now there's a responsible group :lol:

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Re: Proper response

Post by jetjockey » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:34 am

A well socialized dog will be a more confident dog, and be able to handle situations that are out of your controll, much better. I make sure all my dogs are well socialized to people, and pets. My dogs are rock stars at the local Starbucks. They sit in the back of a 4-runner with the window down and love the attention they get from people who walk by.. It makes them better in the field as well IMO, as they can transition to hunting by themselves with just me, to running infront of large gallerys without any hesitation. I also don't need to worry about them being afraid of other people in the event the dog gets lost for some reason. The dogs are comfortable with everyone they meet, which is important to me, especially when friends and family come to the house. The dogs are well socialized and well behaved around strangers. I also make sure to get them around other dogs at a young age after their vaccinations because it builds immunity, just like kids in daycare. Dogs are no different than kids. That's why I always laugh when pediatrician offices have a sick kid and a healthy kid waiting room that are right next to eachother. It does very little to protect the kids, but it makes the parents feel better. While you never want to expose your dogs or kids to something that might endanger them, building up the immunity to regular coughs and colds is a good thing. It keeps them healthier later in life.

In a trial, the least of the worries is the grounds. If a dog is going to get sick from another dog, it's going to occur in the dog wagon associated with continuous course trials, not from running on the grounds.

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Re: Proper response

Post by ESS13 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:04 am

whats acceptable for a dog correcting or protecting itself? My 5 yr old female springer corrected a 1 yr yellow lab when my buddy came to visit. His yellow kept sniffing her rear until her hair came up for a split second then snapped. Took a nice piece of his yellows ear off. That was it though a quick snap and it was over. What exactly do you need to look for that is unacceptable aggressiveness or snapping? I was shocked since my springer never snaps at any dog. Typically submits to males, she typically lays right down when they sniff her but not this time.

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Re: Proper response

Post by Sharon » Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:27 am

When another dog comes to your house it's every dog for himself. "It's my house bud and don't forget it." :)

I was sleeping in one morning , when my husband invited the neighbor in with his new JRT. Not a good idea .
My JRT was not impressed and all hlle broke loose.
I jumped out of bed and had to break up the fight in my pjs. , as both men stood there aghast.

Now you could invite any dog in with my setters and they would smile and say, " Welcome".

Depends on the dog as to what is to be expected / acceptable.

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Re: Proper response

Post by deke » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:53 pm

Cicada wrote:So yesterday my 15 month old pup is on the beach while I am working on the boat. My neighbor comes by with his dog and 2 other small Shitzu crosses all goes well for a while but then one of the Shitzu takes a nip at my pup and he responds with an aggressive nip or 2 of his own. My neighbor held the 2 dogs apart until things calmed down then I called my dog back into the boat.

Should I have jumped out of the boat and handled my own pup or was I better off to stay my distance and avoid being apart of the situation? No harm no fowl :wink:


Grant

As soon as i started reading your question I knew this was going to turn into a pissing match about who's dogs are raised better. I will however try to answer your question with the best of my knowledge. Jumping to your dogs rescue could of gone either way, she could of seen you coming and ran towards you to get away from the shitzu's, or she could of gotten protective of you and tried to escalate the situation. Staying on the boat could of gone two ways, either she would think she had to fight her way out of the situation, or she would submit and try to de-escalate. What I am trying to say is you know your dog better than anyone on here, so you alone need to make that judgement call. However, I would of jumped off the boat. More for the other dog owners peace of mind than anything else, also if I don't personally know the person, how would i know that they could break up a fight if one breaks out?

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Re: Proper response

Post by Cicada » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:22 pm

Actually I thought the responses were very civil and informative.

She is a he if that matters and being only 16 months he has not had any fights so that is why I posted the question.

Thanks again

Grant

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