Bloodline Breakdown for a Rookie

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ben33127
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Bloodline Breakdown for a Rookie

Post by ben33127 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:48 pm

Could someone tell me the basic characteristics or the differences of Elhew, Miller, Honkeytonk, bloodlines? I have 2 Elhew bread pointers and love them and not sure if I want to go outside the Elhew bloodline.

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cmc274
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Re: Bloodline Breakdown for a Rookie

Post by cmc274 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:18 pm

In my personal opinion, those bloodlines are all dead as none of those folks are 'actively' breeding and any description of those lines would be over generalizations at best. The elhew name being the most "bleep". Best to communicate the kind of dog you want and find a reputable breeder that fits the bill.

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Re: Bloodline Breakdown for a Rookie

Post by RayGubernat » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:28 am

ben33127 wrote:Could someone tell me the basic characteristics or the differences of Elhew, Miller, Honkeytonk, bloodlines? I have 2 Elhew bread pointers and love them and not sure if I want to go outside the Elhew bloodline.
As previously mentioned, there are many "variations" on those lines, sot the situation has become muddied. there are many different folks who are breeding dogs with those lines in them, for dramatically different reasons.

True to type Elhew bred dogs are generally large frame dogs, almost what you would expect to see out of AKC breeding. True to type Elhew dogs generally tend to want to operate at foot hunting/walking shooting dog/cover dog ranges with those type of ground applications. As mentioned there are others, such as Elhew Sinbad, Sunflower, Swami and others who are much more horseback shooting dog type of dogs that can push the all age envelope.

True to type Miller bred dogs are horseback all age dogs with that kind of range and ground application. They excel in wild bird and in "nearly" wild bird situation and are arguably the standard in that arena by which all other bird dogs are measured. They might not be the best choice for a steady diet of penraised birds, however.

I do not know too much about the Honkytonk line except that they are noted for high posture on their birds, with horseback shooting dog range and application. No significant experience with those dogs.

Hope this helps.

RayG

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Big Dave
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Re: Bloodline Breakdown for a Rookie

Post by Big Dave » Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:51 am

Honky Tonk Attitude was a combination of Fiddler and Addition's Go Boy blood. His offspring were successful mostly in NSTRA and NBHA walking trials. Most of the bigger going Elhew dogs go back to Hanna's Elhew Lou, her dam's side having crosses back to Addition''s Go Boy and Evolution or to Fibber McGee who has a close cross to Dunn's Fearless Bud. It used to be the closer working, hunting dog type Elhews went back to McGoo. Since Wehle passed away things have certainly changed. The Miller line is still going strong, Miller's Dialing In just won the national championship. If you look at the pictures on the front steps of Ames you will see Ferrel Miller. They tend to be more of an all age type of dog and originally started with Riggin's White Knight. Ferrell line bred off of him, both he and Wehle liked to line breed.

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Re: Bloodline Breakdown for a Rookie

Post by Neil » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:04 am

Miller is very active through his surrogates; Lester, House, Todd, etc. And breeds great bird dogs for any pointing dog activity.

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Re: Bloodline Breakdown for a Rookie

Post by ben33127 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:18 pm

For some reason I thought I read somewhere Ferrel was no longer allowed to trial for some DNA issues, so did he trial at Ames this year? I am completely new to FT, I didn't start bird hunting until around 25 I'm 29 now so I am lost on a lot of FT ins and outs.

I attended one last year just trying to learn some new things and honestly only one gentlemen helped me out. I felt like the thought I was there stealing secrets.

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Re: Bloodline Breakdown for a Rookie

Post by shags » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:07 pm

It depends on what kind of questions you ask, how you ask, and who you ask to get a conversation going. If no one knows you, chances are they aren't going to open up immediately especially if they don't care much for the lines you ask about. Think about it, maybe they don't want it all over the interwebs the next day " So-and-So says that Miller, Elhew, Honky Tonk lines stink" or worse. Or if they recommend or favor a line, then you happen to buy a bummer from it, "So-and-So told me this line is all that and look what a poor dog I got". Or maybe if you asked a pro, he might have been reluctant to recommend one line over another depending what his clients have; he can't exactly rave about one or knock another if he has a mix on his string.

Once folks get to know you a little bit, and you figure out how to approach what might be kind of sensitive questions, they are really very open and helpful IME.

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Re: Bloodline Breakdown for a Rookie

Post by codym » Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:08 pm

One of the great thing about pointers are all the great lines to choose from. That being said you need to do your home work study pedigrees and get a good feeling for line breeding and what the breeders were looking to accomplish. Like others have said true Elhew dog don't really exist ( I heard there was frozen semen on some of the more influential dogs like Magoo damascus and snake foot but that was years ago and I doubt it was true) In my opion Honky Tonk Attitude is not it's own line, he was more of a line bred fiddler dog, but I feel kind of the same way about RABlack Hawk dogs. Miller is a strong line that like others have said goes back to RWK. A very popular line and deservedly so are the Erin's dogs that generally go back to Erin's Southen Justice.What Mr. Derrig has done with pointers in the last 15-20 years is amazing.

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Re: Bloodline Breakdown for a Rookie

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:09 pm

shags wrote:It depends on what kind of questions you ask, how you ask, and who you ask to get a conversation going. If no one knows you, chances are they aren't going to open up immediately especially if they don't care much for the lines you ask about. Think about it, maybe they don't want it all over the interwebs the next day " So-and-So says that Miller, Elhew, Honky Tonk lines stink" or worse. Or if they recommend or favor a line, then you happen to buy a bummer from it, "So-and-So told me this line is all that and look what a poor dog I got". Or maybe if you asked a pro, he might have been reluctant to recommend one line over another depending what his clients have; he can't exactly rave about one or knock another if he has a mix on his string.

Once folks get to know you a little bit, and you figure out how to approach what might be kind of sensitive questions, they are really very open and helpful IME.

I think I can describe general properties of a line without using the work stink. I have my favorites but that has nothing to do with what each are known for and sure has nothing to do with answering a question about history of the breeds and some of the bloodlines within that breed. Can't think of a breed I dislike that doesn't have good dogs with god qualities, whether I like them or not isn't part of the question.

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Re: Bloodline Breakdown for a Rookie

Post by displaced_texan » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:04 pm

Miller and Honky Tonk lines are most certainly not dead, especially Miller. And the Honky Tonk dogs are foot hunting/trialing dogs.

What qualities do you have in your dogs that you like? As has been mentioned, the Elhew name doesn't mean what it once did.

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Re: Bloodline Breakdown for a Rookie

Post by PntrRookie » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:55 am

ben33127 wrote:For some reason I thought I read somewhere Ferrel was no longer allowed to trial for some DNA issues, so did he trial at Ames this year?
He may not be able to register or run dogs but his influence in breeding and developing CH dogs continues with a few individuals like Lester, Todd, Phillips Haynes, House, etc.
ben33127 wrote:I attended one last year just trying to learn some new things and honestly only one gentlemen helped me out. I felt like the thought I was there stealing secrets.
Keep going and you will meet some great people. Once you start beating them, they will start talkin' ;)

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