Non-tox upland shotshells

chiendog · Post by **chiendog** » Sun May 17, 2015 4:44 pm

When I hunt waterfowl, I shoot steel and other non-tox loads. But when I hunt upland birds or chase whitetails, I shoot lead. But not for long. I've decided to switch to copper bullets for deer hunting and I am looking for a suitable non-tox alternative for upland game. Copper bullets for deer won't be a problem. They are widely available, and their slightly higher price is not really an issue since a box of 20 rounds will probably last me several years.

But finding a suitable non-tox load for upland hunting is going to be tough because my go-to guns for grouse, woodcock and pheasant are Darnes. And the steel loads available to me here just don't play well with those sweet, sweet side by sides. So if I want to go lead free, I have to crawl down the rabbit hole of non-tox, non-steel shotshells.

Read about my adventures here:
http://pointingdogblog.blogspot.ca/2015 ... -lead.html

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sun May 17, 2015 5:06 pm

I'm quite sure that you are aware of a non-tox option from RST in several gauges...I reckon those cartouches would be a feel-good solution, if one imagines a need for such shot.
I like lead shot and real butter, personally.

chiendog · Post by **chiendog** » Sun May 17, 2015 5:21 pm

Yes, I am aware of the non-tox offerings from RST (Niceshot). The problem is that its availability is spotty..and the price is just south of a kidney per shot. That said, I would use it if I could get it. But it always seems to be out of stock in 20 gauge. And I agree...,mmmm butter!!

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sun May 17, 2015 6:21 pm

While I did not read any of the adventures, I did just read the remainder of the article, of which your post here is the start, posted on your blog and I see you have indeed researched the non-tox situation.
Which occassions me to wonder why the initial post, especially as your ending words tout free choice in shot pellets, in the first place.
I will say those Darnes look nice...while the one I handled did not wow me and, in truth, I found that it would likely require a different hand and possibly a blind one to work for me, they do fit the bill as game guns....as well as being low on wear and engineering marvels of a sort.

Additionally, good luck on winning that lottery you mentioned and so fulfilling your desire and fervent wish it appears, to move to Europe.
That move would be near the bottom of my list of addresses on a mailbox but, as with shot pellets....each to their own choice of countries.

chiendog · Post by **chiendog** » Sun May 17, 2015 7:22 pm

....why the initial post, especially as your ending words tout free choice in shot pellets, in the first place.

My post had two goals: 1. To share some info with others who want to go lead free but can't shoot steel. I was actually surprised by how many options are available here and overseas and fully expect to see more options become available in the future. And 2.to post something that is too long (and probably boring for most) to the board and provide more photos and working links (I think the limit here is 3).

And yes, you are right, "to each to their own choice of countries". My top choices are Canada and France. With Italy a close third. But then again, there's something awesome about the Dakotas. My wife and I love hunting there and I would put North Dakota on the list if I didn't already have 50+ northern winters under my belt.

Dakotazeb · Post by **Dakotazeb** » Sun May 17, 2015 7:36 pm

What about Kent Tungsten-Matrix?

chiendog · Post by **chiendog** » Sun May 17, 2015 7:55 pm

Dakotazeb wrote:What about Kent Tungsten-Matrix?

From the article

"Tungsten Matrix: Great stuff with kill-a-duck power out the yazoo. Shells like Kent's TM Upland contain the most effective shot you can throw downrange that is not made of equal parts uranium and unobtainium. Unfortunately, the price of tungsten matrix now hovers just under half a kidney per shot. So unless my power ball numbers come up, I won't be shooting tungsten matrix shells in the uplands any time soon." I would also add that their availability is about as spotty as bismuth shells. I wrote about them saying

Bismuth shells: Less expensive than tungsten matrix cartridges, and if you load your own, the cost can be close to reasonable. Unfortunately, stocks of bismuth come and go as fast as a 17 year old farm boy with a bad case of the trots at the local bordello. One day you see bismuth shells listed on the WhizBangMart website and the next day they are listed as 'out of stock'... probably because the company that made them switched to making stomach remedies for 17 year old farm boys with the trots.

Nevertheless, I am hopeful that Rio Ammo's new facility in Texas will start cranking out decent, affordable bismuth loads before the season opens this year. If they do, and if my Darnes like them, Bismuth will be my upland go-to shot.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Tue May 19, 2015 7:17 am

Mountaineer wrote:I'm quite sure that you are aware of a non-tox option from RST in several gauges...I reckon those cartouches would be a feel-good solution, if one imagines a need for such shot.
I like lead shot and real butter, personally.

Non-tox is a solution in search of a problem, however it does give writers something to write about.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sat May 23, 2015 6:31 am

nikegundog wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:I'm quite sure that you are aware of a non-tox option from RST in several gauges...I reckon those cartouches would be a feel-good solution, if one imagines a need for such shot.
I like lead shot and real butter, personally.
Non-tox is a solution in search of a problem, however it does give writers something to write about.

+1. Very well put. There is, to my knowledge, no reputable evidence to validate the claim that lead shot is ingested by and kills upland birds. Most upland birds die before lead could ever poison them. Nor do I believe that avian predators die from ingesting bullet fragments from lost big game animals. I believe it MAY have happened, but that the occurance is so insignificant as to be of no relevance at all.

I think if a person wants fo make himself feel more responsible by shooting non-tox, that's fine as long as it isn't pushed at the rest of us.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat May 23, 2015 8:27 am

Toxic just means it isn't part of a normal diet and when ingested it can cause problems. Problem is it usually takes a good amount to have an effect and whatever has to eat it in the first place. In most cases birds don't eat things they don't need when free feeding and if they did find a pellet or bebe it wouldn't be enough to have an effect. It is kind of like the lead paint situation. If you believed everything you have read about it, none of us would be alive today.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Sat May 23, 2015 10:43 am

ezzy333 wrote:Toxic just means it isn't part of a normal diet and when ingested it can cause problems. Problem is it usually takes a good amount to have an effect and whatever has to eat it in the first place. In most cases birds don't eat things they don't need when free feeding and if they did find a pellet or bebe it wouldn't be enough to have an effect. It is kind of like the lead paint situation. If you believed everything you have read about it, none of us would be alive today.

I guess in the world according to ezzy there would be no reason for us to train our employees in lead abatement, to use lead abatement procedure when we work on a pre 1980 house( which is very expensive) and no birds would die from lead poisoning.
Have you ever seen how much lead rains shot rains on a South Dakota corn field on opening weekend of pheasant season?
Probably global warming is a liberal conspiracy also.......................Cj

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat May 23, 2015 11:24 am

CJ,

I am not against using something besides lead but to answer your questions, I find little reason to worry about lead abatement since we worked on pre 1980 homes for many years before there was such a thing as a lead problem. Most of us of my era chewed lead paint off of our cribs several times. I repainted my old crib several times when we used it for our kids. I also can see the reason to be careful if someone is working in it everyday. I do not have any idea how much lead shot falls on the ground in S. Dakota. I am assuming a lot less than falls on the ground in a Trap or Skeet shooting club. And then when you realize that soil in Dakota is tilled every year there probably is very little on top of the ground. But more importantly, no matter how much there is we do not have a problem with birds dying because of it.

I used to think there was Global Warming though it was pretty evident that man was not the cause. But now that they publish the records that show absolutely no warming since 1998 I have been forced to change my mind. Just on a side note, wo days ago there was a big article about the ice in Antarctica was melting at an astonishing rate and the same day Australia was very concerned because the shipping routes they have had for years are having to be abanded because they were being clogged with ice in the past few years as the ice shelf is expanding greatly. Plus the same story in the Artic. So my answer would be what global warning. You have to remember I went through the era just a while back when the big climate concern was global cooling and the cause was because of the pollution of our atmosphere didn't allow for the suns heat to get to the earths surface instead of trapping it in. Same hysterical arguments we hear today 30 o4 40 years later.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sat May 23, 2015 12:49 pm

I have no problem with personal choice in most anything that does not directly effect me. I have a real problem when the government forces action based on their politics and not true science. The lead shot waterfowl ban was based on shoddy studies that would be discredited in a high school science fair. Read the literature, decide for yourself, but please don't try to get me on your bandwagon.

We have known the ill effects of massive amounts of lead being ingested since the term mad as a hater was coined, but it does not follow that small quantities are devastating. There have been many studies on lead shot in the uplands, and even though they have tried, the scientists cannot show ill effects. And they have tried.

If you have a need to contribute to a safer planet, and we all should, you would be better served in working toward clean water. The lack of which kills millions of people and animals each year.

Neil

Grange · Post by **Grange** » Sat May 23, 2015 1:17 pm

ezzy333 wrote:CJ,

I am not against using something besides lead but to answer your questions, I find little reason to worry about lead abatement since we worked on pre 1980 homes for many years before there was such a thing as a lead problem. Most of us of my era chewed lead paint off of our cribs several times. I repainted my old crib several times when we used it for our kids. I also can see the reason to be careful if someone is working in it everyday. I do not have any idea how much lead shot falls on the ground in S. Dakota. I am assuming a lot less than falls on the ground in a Trap or Skeet shooting club. And then when you realize that soil in Dakota is tilled every year there probably is very little on top of the ground. But more importantly, no matter how much there is we do not have a problem with birds dying because of it.

I used to think there was Global Warming though it was pretty evident that man was not the cause. But now that they publish the records that show absolutely no warming since 1998 I have been forced to change my mind. Just on a side note, wo days ago there was a big article about the ice in Antarctica was melting at an astonishing rate and the same day Australia was very concerned because the shipping routes they have had for years are having to be abanded because they were being clogged with ice in the past few years as the ice shelf is expanding greatly. Plus the same story in the Artic. So my answer would be what global warning. You have to remember I went through the era just a while back when the big climate concern was global cooling and the cause was because of the pollution of our atmosphere didn't allow for the suns heat to get to the earths surface instead of trapping it in. Same hysterical arguments we hear today 30 o4 40 years later.

Have you ever sampled or at least seen the results of sediment samples from ground at trap or skeet ranges? I have and to think there isn't any contamination and often high contamination at that is wrong.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sat May 23, 2015 1:50 pm

Grange wrote:...Have you ever sampled or at least seen the results of sediment samples from ground at trap or skeet ranges? I have and to think there isn't any contamination and often high contamination at that is wrong.

I know they took out a bucket load of reclaimed lead for top dollar at the local trap club last year and that it was all within a few inches of the surface. No doubt some degree of contamination resulted from the 60 years or so of operation.
I know they shut down Lordship for shooting over water over the years.
I know that early explorers had negative issues with the lead in the solder of early canned goods.

I also know that all the particulars of lead shot deposition vary greatly and that the proponents of lead-free shot, et al choose to ignore reality when it becomes uncomfortable to an agenda.
I truely know that there are far more important issues afoot today, for critters and humans, than lead shot in the uplands and also that feel good choices rule the minds of far too many today.
I suspect that lead shot in a SD field would vary in great measure...good grief.

Global changes in climate has passed science and become politics to be mined by whomever has need of a distraction.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sat May 23, 2015 6:40 pm

Grange wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:CJ,

I am not against using something besides lead but to answer your questions, I find little reason to worry about lead abatement since we worked on pre 1980 homes for many years before there was such a thing as a lead problem. Most of us of my era chewed lead paint off of our cribs several times. I repainted my old crib several times when we used it for our kids. I also can see the reason to be careful if someone is working in it everyday. I do not have any idea how much lead shot falls on the ground in S. Dakota. I am assuming a lot less than falls on the ground in a Trap or Skeet shooting club. And then when you realize that soil in Dakota is tilled every year there probably is very little on top of the ground. But more importantly, no matter how much there is we do not have a problem with birds dying because of it.

I used to think there was Global Warming though it was pretty evident that man was not the cause. But now that they publish the records that show absolutely no warming since 1998 I have been forced to change my mind. Just on a side note, wo days ago there was a big article about the ice in Antarctica was melting at an astonishing rate and the same day Australia was very concerned because the shipping routes they have had for years are having to be abanded because they were being clogged with ice in the past few years as the ice shelf is expanding greatly. Plus the same story in the Artic. So my answer would be what global warning. You have to remember I went through the era just a while back when the big climate concern was global cooling and the cause was because of the pollution of our atmosphere didn't allow for the suns heat to get to the earths surface instead of trapping it in. Same hysterical arguments we hear today 30 o4 40 years later.
Have you ever sampled or at least seen the results of sediment samples from ground at trap or skeet ranges? I have and to think there isn't any contamination and often high contamination at that is wrong.

Yes, I have seen the results of skeet/trap range sampling, and to date no study has proven harmful effects. Further, you do understand lead is a natural occurring element and still being mined, if the concentrations were as great as you suggest it could and would be sold. There is no science to support you position, and it is ludicrous to suggest any upland field would approach a sleet/trap range.

Nonsense!

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Sat May 23, 2015 8:05 pm

Funny thing, ezzy I am pretty close to your age and I do not remember any global cooling warning. there as been global warming pretty much for ever. If not we would still be in the ice age.
I do not see any documentation of your statement about no warming since 1998. How ever even if that were true that is not along enough time to say there is no global warming. 20 years is weather 100 or more is climate.
But the exerts have spoken and I feel quite secure and happy in the knowledge that there is no global warming and filling the fields marshes full of lead will not cause any problem and we need not worry about lead paint in the environment. what a relief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Cj

Grange · Post by **Grange** » Sat May 23, 2015 9:01 pm

Neil wrote:
Grange wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:CJ,

I am not against using something besides lead but to answer your questions, I find little reason to worry about lead abatement since we worked on pre 1980 homes for many years before there was such a thing as a lead problem. Most of us of my era chewed lead paint off of our cribs several times. I repainted my old crib several times when we used it for our kids. I also can see the reason to be careful if someone is working in it everyday. I do not have any idea how much lead shot falls on the ground in S. Dakota. I am assuming a lot less than falls on the ground in a Trap or Skeet shooting club. And then when you realize that soil in Dakota is tilled every year there probably is very little on top of the ground. But more importantly, no matter how much there is we do not have a problem with birds dying because of it.

I used to think there was Global Warming though it was pretty evident that man was not the cause. But now that they publish the records that show absolutely no warming since 1998 I have been forced to change my mind. Just on a side note, wo days ago there was a big article about the ice in Antarctica was melting at an astonishing rate and the same day Australia was very concerned because the shipping routes they have had for years are having to be abanded because they were being clogged with ice in the past few years as the ice shelf is expanding greatly. Plus the same story in the Artic. So my answer would be what global warning. You have to remember I went through the era just a while back when the big climate concern was global cooling and the cause was because of the pollution of our atmosphere didn't allow for the suns heat to get to the earths surface instead of trapping it in. Same hysterical arguments we hear today 30 o4 40 years later.
Have you ever sampled or at least seen the results of sediment samples from ground at trap or skeet ranges? I have and to think there isn't any contamination and often high contamination at that is wrong.
Yes, I have seen the results of skeet/trap range sampling, and to date no study has proven harmful effects. Further, you do understand lead is a natural occurring element and still being mined, if the concentrations were as great as you suggest it could and would be sold. There is no science to support you position, and it is ludicrous to suggest any upland field would approach a sleet/trap range.

Nonsense!

Do you deny that skeet/trap ranges can have high contamination? Of coarse lead is a natural occurring element. What does that have to do with soil at skeet/trap ranges? Actively maintained skeet/trap ranges likely do have best management practices and do harvest lead on a regular basis. There is plenty of science to support my position. The last site I reviewed the sampling results was an area where shooting clay pigeons was very popular. I don't know if it was an official shooting range that was abandoned or just a very popular spot. We had the topsoil excavated to remove surface lead and broken clay pigeons and then had it sampled. Also where did I suggest any upland field would approach a sleet/trap range?

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sun May 24, 2015 7:32 am

JMHO but trap ranges can have high concentrations of lead shot, plastic and clay fragments(maybe some sand from broken bags

)....whether the % of lead shot is simple deposition or actual contamination really depends upon one's definition of the word contamination or one's need to subtly imply the most negative definition to it.
Science would indicate a need to do more than sift a cubic foot of dirt ...the science would indicate the need to detail what is actually happening to the lead shot over Time

and to what degree and effect is resulting, practical and theoretical.
Like the SD field, too many are assuming that simple deposition is the end all to any honest look at lead shot in the Uplands....and beyond.

If simple deposition is used then WE humans are depositing all manner of "stuff" and depositing it well past Upland habitat....better gird one's personal preference loins in that case.

What is often missed in this issue is true damage and proportion of comparable harm.....and, science.
But, lead shot is a message board staple sure to bring out the Shirts and the Skins.

I would try copper shot, for example, just to see, as I tried steel for ruffed grouse and woodcock...I expect copper would work when well pointed, as not much does not....and the counter, of course.
But, I have no need to try copper shot past a simple hoot.....as much bigger concerns are out and about with actual science backing the concern.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun May 24, 2015 8:03 am

cjhills wrote:Funny thing, ezzy I am pretty close to your age and I do not remember any global cooling warning. there as been global warming pretty much for ever. If not we would still be in the ice age.
I do not see any documentation of your statement about no warming since 1998. How ever even if that were true that is not along enough time to say there is no global warming. 20 years is weather 100 or more is climate.
But the exerts have spoken and I feel quite secure and happy in the knowledge that there is no global warming and filling the fields marshes full of lead will not cause any problem and we need not worry about lead paint in the environment. what a relief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Cj

You don't remember DR. Carl Sagen? Can't remember his title but he was thought of as the guru of climatology and was on TV a lot, including Johnny Carson's show, trying to get people to understand what the global cooling was doing to the world, And the cause was atmosphere contamination, same as now only it is the cause of global warming now. Big concern then was over population causing the problem but if we didn't change crop production was going to go down, world wide starvation, and of course a tremendous build up in the amount of ice. Funny thing is with what is considered an advance in education and intellect, things that are natural were thought of as natural before, but somehow our desire to control everything has led to people thinking they can control nature instead of accepting it and putting their effort into how to live in our changing environment.

I have no answer for you if you can't remember except that climate changed from hot to cold many times since the earth was created or man was even present. We haven't even experienced anything but an extremely small variation since we have started tracking it but ..........................

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Sun May 24, 2015 8:56 am

the amount of time we have spent tracking weather or anything else is very minute in the world scheme of things. I believe in my lifetime spring is coming earlier and winter later, also winters are warmer than it used to be. But, that could be a trend that will go either way. long term global warming is no doubt occurring, the thirties were extremely hot and dry. at least here.
Lead shot kills waterfowl.................cj

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sun May 24, 2015 9:18 am

http://www.populartechnology.net/2013/0 ... rmism.html

Every science text book I had in the 60s had a picture of the earth with the equator shrouded in ice. The weekly news magazine all agreed it was a given that a new ice age was coming. I am guessing current scientists finally got around to reading history and now speak of Climate Change, instead of Global Warming, that way they are covered no matter what happens.

That and making prediction 100 years in the future avoids accountability.

I do not deny man is harming the world, but we need reasonable solutions.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sun May 24, 2015 9:25 am

cjhills wrote:the amount of time we have spent tracking weather or anything else is very minute in the world scheme of things. I believe in my lifetime spring is coming earlier and winter later, also winters are warmer than it used to be. But, that could be a trend that will go either way. long term global warming is no doubt occurring, the thirties were extremely hot and dry. at least here.
Lead shot kills waterfowl.................cj

Only if the gun is well pointed with proper follow through.

NEhomer · Post by **NEhomer** » Sun May 24, 2015 9:30 am

Global warming advanced acutely on 8/9/95. Garcia was so "bleep" cool, he kept the entire planet two degrees cooler.

Just sayin'

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sun May 24, 2015 10:16 am

I sincerely believe more waterfowl were wounded and died from less effective steel shot than from ingesting lead shot.

The ban was based on a study conducted in a small area of a very high concentration of hunters. Few questioned it at the time, fewer still today, we just accept it.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sun May 24, 2015 10:31 am

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... /?page=all

How can you all be so trusting when they lie at every turn?

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Sun May 24, 2015 11:47 am

Neil wrote:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... /?page=all

How can you all be so trusting when they lie at every turn?

The problem is how to determine who is the worst liar. I have never met a politician who didn't lie. I know you all believe the right wingers. I do not. Sometimes you just need to go with what your gut and logic tell you. Might be wrong but usually not ..............Cj

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sun May 24, 2015 1:08 pm

I don't trust any politicians, but can you cite an example of the right lying about the subject or global warming?

I require a bit more than a gut feeling before changing my life or spending my money, or allowing the government to do so.

As Dr. Gruber attested about Obamacare, the Left justifies the deceptions as being for the greater good. The Right tend to say one thing and do another. Both are bad, but the former interferes with my life more.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Sun May 24, 2015 1:49 pm

The question was simple but we have answered with everything including "Obomacare"? Really? Lets just stick to answering the OP's question and leave al of the politics out of it. Drama Queens.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sun May 24, 2015 2:09 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:The question was simple but we have answered with everything including "Obomacare"? Really? Lets just stick to answering the OP's question and leave al of the politics out of it. Drama Queens.

The use of non-toxic shot has a political subtext.

How about you leave the appropriateness of my posts to the moderators? And if you don't like them, don't read them.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sun May 24, 2015 2:28 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:The question was simple.......Lets just stick to answering the OP's question.....

The OP, by his answering response in the 5th post, indicated no question as a reason for his initial post.

His research into alternative shot pellets was obviously already wide and deep.
Do the math.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sun May 24, 2015 2:45 pm

As to availability, go to the largest sleet/trap club in your area and ask if they will order you a case or two of whatever shells you desire. Every club I have belonged to order shells at least quarterly at no extra charge for members and only a small fee for non-members.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sun May 24, 2015 6:55 pm

Lead abatement in homes is a gigantic load of crap being stuffed down our throats by politicians trying to justify their worthless positions. Unless you have children eating windowsills, there is no way lead paint in a home can hurt you. 99% of the time it's fully encapsulated. Another lie being stuffed down the throats of a populus with little common sense that cant afford the expensive abatement proceedures.

The whole falacy of the lead abatement issue is that the home owner can so what he wants in anyway he wants in his own home; it is only when a conractor is involved that these expensive, unnecessary proceedured have to be followed. Very much like the residential asbestos issues. Asbestos in solid form is totally safe, it is only when dust is made from it that it becomes dangerous.

I absolutely concur that every trap and skeet range in the country has harmful levels of lead if you eat the dirt. I don't believe there is any pheasant field anywhere that has harmful levels of lead. When the fields are plowed the lead is burried anyhow. I also affirm again, that most wild, upland birds will NEVER live long enough to die of lead poisoning.

Tejas · Post by **Tejas** » Sun May 24, 2015 7:57 pm

I won a case of copper plated lead shot in a Duck's Unlimited Raffle about thirty years ago. They were 4 shot and I never hunt waterfowl....in fact I only used these for hunting pheasant and I haven't done that in about twenty years. Are these shells still legal?

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sun May 24, 2015 8:41 pm

Tejas wrote:I won a case of copper plated lead shot in a Duck's Unlimited Raffle about thirty years ago. They were 4 shot and I never hunt waterfowl....in fact I only used these for hunting pheasant and I haven't done that in about twenty years. Are these shells still legal?

They are still readily available and you can use them where ever you can use lead. You can't use them on waterfowl, or in waterfowl production areas.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Sun May 24, 2015 9:06 pm

nikegundog wrote:
Tejas wrote:I won a case of copper plated lead shot in a Duck's Unlimited Raffle about thirty years ago. They were 4 shot and I never hunt waterfowl....in fact I only used these for hunting pheasant and I haven't done that in about twenty years. Are these shells still legal?
They are still readily available and you can use them where ever you can use lead. You can't use them on waterfowl, or in waterfowl production areas.

Just seeking information: where does it say lead is illegal in WPAs? Thanks.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sun May 24, 2015 9:29 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:
nikegundog wrote:
Tejas wrote:I won a case of copper plated lead shot in a Duck's Unlimited Raffle about thirty years ago. They were 4 shot and I never hunt waterfowl....in fact I only used these for hunting pheasant and I haven't done that in about twenty years. Are these shells still legal?
They are still readily available and you can use them where ever you can use lead. You can't use them on waterfowl, or in waterfowl production areas.
Just seeking information: where does it say lead is illegal in WPAs? Thanks.

Apologizes I misstated this, in MN non-tox is required on all waterfowl production areas, I thought that was Nationwide but it appears that I'm incorrect.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Mon May 25, 2015 4:51 am

You do need non tox in SD WPA's.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Mon May 25, 2015 12:27 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:You do need non tox in SD WPA's.

Yes, for waterfowl and small game (pheasants). Although there is plenty of walkin areas where it's not required.