Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

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luvthemud
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Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:36 pm

For the first time in a long time, I have no dog. Earlier today I returned my 6 month old GSP to the breeder. A little history before I say why:

I lost my last GSP at the age of 2.5. Ever since bringing him home at 7 weeks, he suffered from all sorts of issues. Mainly it was his inability to digest food, and severe allergy type symptoms. Thousands of dollars spent on vet bills got me nowhere and ultimately he ended up passing before I dropped even more to go down the custom allergy serum route. The main issue he has was, during the spring, summer, and ealry fall months, anytime he would spend a bunch of time in tall grass or the woods, the area around his eyes would swell and he would itch himself raw. This itching would then lead to an infection and round and round we went. Oddly enough, the problem seemed to get better when the dog was at the breeder for training, so he concluded that it was something in or around my home. I accepted that and tried everything I could think of short of selling my house and moving. Nothing helped, and as mentioned, the dog ended up passing. The breeder felt horrible, and agreed to give me a new pup. He has a 3 year health guarantee and even without that, probably would have came through.

So fast forward to 2 weeks ago. My new dog started experiencing the same allergy type symptoms. I literally couldn't believe it. Eyes swelled up, and the itching began. He was perfect up until then? After much thought, I ended up deciding that the best thing for me and my family was to not go down this route again, and simply return the dog to the breeder. Not only could I not afford to spend the time and money on another sick dog, I didn't want my family, particularly my daughter, to get even more attached only to have her heart broken again.

So, I am dogless, sort of unsure of what to do. Obviously the breeder stands by his bloodlines and insists that this "has never happened to any of his other dogs" and that "it isn't genetic and is happening because of something in my environment". I obviously want another dog. Bird hunting is my number one hobby and I am already wondering what the heck I am going to do in the fall. However, I am literally scared to get another pup and have this happen again.

Could it be that I live in the "no-gsp" zone of Wisconsin?
Am I wrong thinking that allergies, regardless of what is causing them, are genetic?

Any opinions or thoughts would be greatly appreciated, and don't hold back. I expect I will get some "you should have kept the dog and taken him to the vet". Part of me feels horrible for giving up on him, but the last one was way too tough on my family. Owing a pet should be fun and rewarding IMO.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by shags » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:16 am

Wow, I am sorry for your troibles; that had to be hard on your family.

Is there any chamce that the breeder would pay for allergy testing on the pup you returned? That's about the only way you'd be able to pinpoint where the problem is coming from. By any chance was that pup from a repeat breeding of the first pup's parents, or very closely related?

Allergies can be very weird, as in a dog might have several but they are latent until the allergens overload the system, then the itching etc comes on. So maybe a certain pollen, plus grass, allergy would be present but not show up until something like a food allergen is added to the mix and makes the overload that results in problems.

Have you done a thorough inventory of things like cleaning products used in your home, or maybe yard/garden chemicals? If you look around the interwebs you'll find things like fabric softeners or certain spray deodorizers are suspect.

It may be that the particular line of dogs has overall weak immunity.

Do you have local friends with shorthairs that don't exhibit allergies? It might be worthwhile to check out those bloodlines.


Good luck in figuring out the puzzle.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:41 am

shags wrote:Wow, I am sorry for your troibles; that had to be hard on your family.

Is there any chamce that the breeder would pay for allergy testing on the pup you returned? That's about the only way you'd be able to pinpoint where the problem is coming from. By any chance was that pup from a repeat breeding of the first pup's parents, or very closely related?

Allergies can be very weird, as in a dog might have several but they are latent until the allergens overload the system, then the itching etc comes on. So maybe a certain pollen, plus grass, allergy would be present but not show up until something like a food allergen is added to the mix and makes the overload that results in problems.

Have you done a thorough inventory of things like cleaning products used in your home, or maybe yard/garden chemicals? If you look around the interwebs you'll find things like fabric softeners or certain spray deodorizers are suspect.

It may be that the particular line of dogs has overall weak immunity.

Do you have local friends with shorthairs that don't exhibit allergies? It might be worthwhile to check out those bloodlines.


Good luck in figuring out the puzzle.
Unfortunately, no, the breeder wasn't willing to help with any allergy testing. He "never had a dog with an issue" so didn't know what he could do for me. That was actually something that was brought up by breeder I know. He said that if he would have had a customer with that type of problem, he would have called in a favor to his vet and helped out with the allergy testing cost and gone from there. Not an option for me. I can't even get back the deposit that I put down for the training the new pup was supposed to receive in a few months! :roll:

Yes, the two dogs were very closely related. Essentially the same bloodlines. The sire of my new pup would have been a half brother of my last pup. They shared fathers. I didn't like the idea of taking a dog from the same bloodlines after all the issues with the last one (poor bite, allergies, digestive problems, poor coat), but unfortunately, this breeder uses this line pretty exclusively.

I did the whole "pinpoint the allergy game" with the last dog and nothing helped. When I say I did everything I could short of moving, I literally mean I did everything I could. New carpeting, merry go round of laundry supplies, different bedding, new crates, homemade dog food, and the list goes on. I honestly believe that it is/was a pollen issue, but have no way of proving that without a test. When I went to the dermatologist with my first dog she gasped and said "Oh my God...this dog has severe allergies! Please don't breed this dog!" That is when I started thinking that it wasn't necessarily something "in or around my house" and that maybe I got the bad part of a line breeding??

Everybody around me has longer hair dogs...mostly labs, with the sprinkle of a springer. Nobody has these issues with their dogs and they live next to me and frequent the same areas.


I just find it almost impossible to accept that out of the 100+ pups that the breeder has sold from this bloodline, that I got the only bad 2 and that it is because of where I live and the environment??

And yeah...I have a 7 year old daughter that is crushed because she cannot figure out why we cannot have a dog. Part of the reason why I am so unsure of what I should do. Feel bad for her.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by NEhomer » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:00 am

I think shags gave all the pertinent advice.

You certainly have my sympathy.

Perhaps one more chance with another breeder.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:19 am

There is nothing wrong with your decision to return...I do see a problem with your decision to return to much the same food bowl.
Change up rather than repeat.
Buy a setter....or whatever.

Spring can bring allergies.
Dogs can certainly have allergies and genetics are powerful but not all allergy symptoms rise in all dogs to the same level of impact throughout their lives.
I would not buy into GSP dead zones.
Regardless of before....look closer, closer to home as one never knows what that level of allergy impact there will be...and, :idea: the next different dog deserves more than your memory of your last dog.

Lastly, swallow any preconceived notions of puppy breathe and consider finding an older dog that needs a home or a started dog with potential or any number of options past pup....all of which may widen your view and well beyond GSPs or puppies.
Get a puppy next time....many good dogs go wanting now and all would be happy to make your Fall better and your daughter giggle.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:30 am

Mountaineer wrote:There is nothing wrong with your decision to return...I do see a problem with your decision to return to much the same food bowl.
Change up rather than repeat.
Buy a setter....or whatever.

Spring can bring allergies.
Dogs can certainly have allergies and genetics are powerful but not all allergy symptoms rise in all dogs to the same level of impact throughout their lives.
I would not buy into GSP dead zones.
Regardless of before....look closer, closer to home as one never knows what that level of allergy impact there will be...and, :idea: the next different dog deserves more than your memory of your last dog.

Lastly, swallow any preconceived notions of puppy breathe and consider finding an older dog that needs a home or a started dog with potential or any number of options past pup....all of which may widen your view and well beyond GSPs or puppies.
Get a puppy next time....many good dogs go wanting now and all would be happy to make your Fall better and your daughter giggle.
Good post. I do regret rushing into getting another dog without considering other options, but the breeder offered me a replacement, and figuring that the first dog's issues were a fluke, I never thought I would have problems with the next one.

I am open to any breed at this point, and you bring up a good point about finding an older dog in need of a home. The only part that worries me about that is with a small child in the house I worry about not knowing an older dogs history. Another thing I am considering is going back to keeping the dog outside more versus inside all the time. An outdoor kennel might help condition the dog better?? Build up their immune system??

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:48 am

In times of tough conditions, we adapt or should.
An outside kennel would seem a wise option for even an inside dog, at times....that decision tho could figure into your options.

Immunity can be like genetics in that it is well past my union card but I would not expect miracles and would simply look to finding a hunting partner and learning that each dog is a vessel of their own particulars.

Puppies, older dogs, started dogs, rescue dogs, et al....each brings requirements of their own for interactions and each offer openings for learning.....for members of the family of all ages.
Look as closely at any older dog as you would...or should...look at a pup and, while Fall will come quickly, I would try to avoid feeling rushed if that options appeals.
Sometimes, Life is not perfect and some time hunting dogless may allow and require for more learning of the birds and so give a greater realization of the wonder of....Dog.

Good luck.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by GrayDawg » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:02 am

Sorry to hear about the troubles you've experienced with your last two dogs.
Very sorry to hear that the breeder wouldn't return $$ for training of a pup that he sold
you which you ultimately returned and he never trained.

There are some very good German Wirehair breeders in Wisconsin, I would seriously
consider reaching out to them and seeing if the breed is for you- they are great upland dogs.

You have probably already figured out that it is time to cut ties with the breeder of your
last 2 dogs.

Sounds like you did everything possible under the sun that you could have to eliminate/identify
possible household allergens. Feel good knowing you did all you could have and simply had the
bad luck of getting a pup/dog that had severe allergies...... twice.

Lastly, unless I'm missing something- by your description of things, this breeder is kennel blind.
You took the high road in not naming him. Can't say I would have been able to take the same path
if I were in your shoes.

PM me if you want the names of some very reputable Wirehair breeders in your area.

Rob

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by Vman » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:53 am

I would move on and find another breeder. But before you do that, check in on that pup you returned and see how it is doing at the breeders. If he is all better, your environment would be suspect. If the pup is still suffering, well environment is less suspect. Tons of good GSP breeders in Wisconsin.

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Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by dobrostarr » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:41 am

I'd ask my vet to visit my house. Maybe there is something like "the ladder in the corner" that he might be able to pinpoint or rule out? Do you have any neighbors with pets? Any farmers that spray fields near by? Do you have a buddy with a gsp that would be willing to bring his dog over and let it walk through your house and yard (big favor to ask I know). Anyway, if it was me I would just want to rule out everything at home first. You and your family live there obviously. Even if you all haven't had any symptoms it would be terrible if you were breathing or coming into contact with something! Good luck!

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by Grange » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:41 am

I don't know where you are in WI, but I offer a story regarding my sister's chocolate lab that sounds kind of similar to your situation. My sister and her husband lived in the Green Bay area when they got a chocolate lab puppy. The puppy had similar issues as you describe though maybe not as severe, but it would scratch off the hair around its eyes. They tried quite a bit including special foods and pills and were able to manage the issues, but not really eliminate them.

They relocated to South Dakota for several years and the chocolate lab had no issues while they were living away from WI. When they came back to the area the dog was much older, but same issues seemed to creep back though less severe. At this time they also had a second dog, which is a GWP, and it had no issues. This lead my sister to be convinced that there is something about the Green Bay area that affected their lab. The chocolate lab has now passed and their 'new' GWP also doesn't have those issues.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by PntrRookie » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:37 pm

Vman wrote:I would move on and find another breeder. But before you do that, check in on that pup you returned and see how it is doing at the breeders. If he is all better, your environment would be suspect. If the pup is still suffering, well environment is less suspect. Tons of good GSP breeders in Wisconsin.
^^+1...check you PMs...on the way.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:32 pm

Vman wrote:I would move on and find another breeder. But before you do that, check in on that pup you returned and see how it is doing at the breeders. If he is all better, your environment would be suspect. If the pup is still suffering, well environment is less suspect. Tons of good GSP breeders in Wisconsin.
I have no doubt that the dog will clear up at the breeders. Without any proof or facts to back this up, I suspect that it has to do with the fact that he will spend most of his day inside versus outside running through the woods and grass as he would here. The conditions that he will be in will be very different and I believe he will be less exposed to all allergens. My last dog seemed to clear up a little when he was there, so that is why I ended up just returning the dog.


I could have pumped the dog full of benedryl for a week, kept him in the basement where there is no outside air coming in, and then sold him to someone else to get some of my money back. I actually even had a couple people that knew of the issues that were willing to take a chance on him. However, I couldn't in good faith do that. Not only do I feel I would have been doing the dog and breed a disservice, I would hate to have this happen to anyone else.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:43 pm

dobrostarr wrote:I'd ask my vet to visit my house. Maybe there is something like "the ladder in the corner" that he might be able to pinpoint or rule out? Do you have any neighbors with pets? Any farmers that spray fields near by? Do you have a buddy with a gsp that would be willing to bring his dog over and let it walk through your house and yard (big favor to ask I know). Anyway, if it was me I would just want to rule out everything at home first. You and your family live there obviously. Even if you all haven't had any symptoms it would be terrible if you were breathing or coming into contact with something! Good luck!

All my neighbors have dogs, but none with GSPs. My closest neighbor has a very old Weim that suffers from some crazy skin disorder, but I forget what the actual name is. We always joked that the problems were related, but who knows....maybe they are?? Perhaps a home inspector could put me in touch with someone who could come in and test for allergens?

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:44 pm

Grange wrote:I don't know where you are in WI, but I offer a story regarding my sister's chocolate lab that sounds kind of similar to your situation. My sister and her husband lived in the Green Bay area when they got a chocolate lab puppy. The puppy had similar issues as you describe though maybe not as severe, but it would scratch off the hair around its eyes. They tried quite a bit including special foods and pills and were able to manage the issues, but not really eliminate them.

They relocated to South Dakota for several years and the chocolate lab had no issues while they were living away from WI. When they came back to the area the dog was much older, but same issues seemed to creep back though less severe. At this time they also had a second dog, which is a GWP, and it had no issues. This lead my sister to be convinced that there is something about the Green Bay area that affected their lab. The chocolate lab has now passed and their 'new' GWP also doesn't have those issues.
Sounds very similar indeed. Good to hear that another breed had no issues while in the same environment.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by Sharon » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:47 pm

"Am I wrong thinking that allergies, regardless of what is causing them, are genetic?" quote OP

Based on my experience they are either genetic , or some plant grows at your area that doesn't grow at the breeder's area.

I have two setters that have bad itching to infections sometimes from May to Oct only . One is Mom and one is daughter . Genetic?

Then I get a JRT rescue and now he is itching from May to Oct. ..... must be plant in the field I go to the vet says.( Not an in the house or food problem as it is only from May to Oct.)

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by MNTonester » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:56 am

perhaps even a different breed? That's got to be a tough situation. Hope it works out for you

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by Vman » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:32 pm

I have no doubt that the dog will clear up at the breeders. Without any proof or facts to back this up, I suspect that it has to do with the fact that he will spend most of his day inside versus outside running through the woods and grass as he would here. The conditions that he will be in will be very different and I believe he will be less exposed to all allergens. My last dog seemed to clear up a little when he was there, so that is why I ended up just returning the dog.
That could easily be the problem. The dogs immune system could be very weak. If that pup was raised outside rather than in the house he may not be having these issues. But being inside most of the time the pups system can`t fight off these suspected allergies in the outside world. Usually it is the other way around, if a dog has allergies get them outside more. But you are experiencing the opposite. I would find another breeder that raises his pups outside where they should be. But I would still recommend you find out for sure the pup has healed rather than assume.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:44 pm

After two dogs with the same problem, I would look at the environment rather than genetics. Unless the pup came from the same lines.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:18 pm

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:After two dogs with the same problem, I would look at the environment rather than genetics. Unless the pup came from the same lines.
The pups did come from the same line.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by greg jacobs » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:10 pm

If you're still on good terms with the breeder I would try to get the contact information of the next owner. See how the pup does over the next several months. If there is tension between the two of you that may be impossible. I've had Shorthairs for 40 years and have never had any health isues. Lucky I guess. I have had hair loss and chapped looking skin around the eyes by the end of hunting season from all the abrasion of the weeds, brush, and grass that they tear through. That's really common for a hard hunted dog.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by Runningdog » Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:55 am

Water... City or well?

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:19 pm

Runningdog wrote:Water... City or well?
I go to a DNR inspected artesian well for all of the water me and my family drink. Our village water is horrible.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:23 pm

greg jacobs wrote:If you're still on good terms with the breeder I would try to get the contact information of the next owner. See how the pup does over the next several months. If there is tension between the two of you that may be impossible. I've had Shorthairs for 40 years and have never had any health isues. Lucky I guess. I have had hair loss and chapped looking skin around the eyes by the end of hunting season from all the abrasion of the weeds, brush, and grass that they tear through. That's really common for a hard hunted dog.
As far as I know, we are still on OK terms. He seemed upset that I thought I should get my training deposit back, but when he sells the dog for $3000 after training it, I am hoping he decides to see my point.

That is what really stunk about the whole ordeal. When hunting season did come around, the area around the eyes literally couldn't take even going through the grass, much less the grouse woods. After every trip out I had to doctor the dog like crazy. I will see if I have some pics of the last grouse excursion. He looks like he did 12 rounds with Mike Tyson. Not only did the hair around his eyes fall out, but the side of his Muzzle and back of his ears as well.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:31 pm

So regarding avoiding possible allergies:


Is it better to get a dog not native to the area, where the line hasn't has the opportunity to develop the allergy?/

Or

Better to get a dog as close to home as possible, so the line has had the chance to develop immunity to allergens?/

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by Vman » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:51 am

Is it better to get a dog not native to the area, where the line hasn't has the opportunity to develop the allergy?/

Or

Better to get a dog as close to home as possible, so the line has had the chance to develop immunity to allergens?/
Just my opinion but I think you are making this much harder than necessary. You took the dog back, got your money back{I assume} so just move on. You bought two dogs from this guy, both were unhealthy, move on, it is his problem not yours.
I have sold dogs to people all over the U.S. and have never had or heard of such problems. Find a good reputable breeder that has healthy dogs, preferably pups that have been raised outside, not in a house and go with it. If the problems re arise then you know it is environment and then it is your problem. Best of Luck to you.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by Georgia Boy » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:08 am

I would hope your vet ruled out demodex?

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:03 pm

luvthemud wrote:
Runningdog wrote:Water... City or well?
I go to a DNR inspected artesian well for all of the water me and my family drink. Our village water is horrible.
How so?...and would not other local pups and critters experience issues drawing notice far and wide?
I sense a greater issue afoot than an allergy and a returned dog.

A question might be...can a dog pick up on an owner's angst of their world, actual or imagined, and then they experience a psychosomatic response. :|

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:17 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
luvthemud wrote:
Runningdog wrote:Water... City or well?
I go to a DNR inspected artesian well for all of the water me and my family drink. Our village water is horrible.
How so?...and would not other local pups and critters experience issues drawing notice far and wide?
I sense a greater issue afoot than an allergy and a returned dog.

A question might be...can a dog pick up on an owner's angst of their world, actual or imagined, and then they experience a psychosomatic response. :|
Ya lost me.

The village water often times smells of chlorine, and can be contaminated by rust and particles when the fire department draws from certain hydrants. They usually warn the residents before doing so to prevent a load of laundry being ruined or someone drinking. Most people, like myself have numerous filters on our water, but still only use it for cooking. And yes, most people in town i know go to the artesian well for their drinking water for themselves and their pets. I am sure there are those that don't, but when my toilet bowl turns black every time the fire department has a drill or a fire, it makes me wonder why people would take that chance..

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:18 pm

Georgia Boy wrote:I would hope your vet ruled out demodex?
That was always the first thing they tested for. The scrapes never came back positive. I had actually hoped that it was something as simple as that.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:21 pm

Vman wrote:
Is it better to get a dog not native to the area, where the line hasn't has the opportunity to develop the allergy?/

Or

Better to get a dog as close to home as possible, so the line has had the chance to develop immunity to allergens?/
Just my opinion but I think you are making this much harder than necessary. You took the dog back, got your money back{I assume} so just move on. You bought two dogs from this guy, both were unhealthy, move on, it is his problem not yours.
I have sold dogs to people all over the U.S. and have never had or heard of such problems. Find a good reputable breeder that has healthy dogs, preferably pups that have been raised outside, not in a house and go with it. If the problems re arise then you know it is environment and then it is your problem. Best of Luck to you.
Well, I didn't get any money back, but that isn't a huge concern. You aren't the first person to mention getting a puppy raised outside. An definitely going to put that on my list of considerations. Thanks.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:31 pm

luvthemud wrote:Ya lost me.

The village water often times smells of chlorine, and can be contaminated by rust and particles when the fire department draws from certain hydrants. They usually warn the residents before doing so to prevent a load of laundry being ruined or someone drinking. Most people, like myself have numerous filters on our water, but still only use it for cooking. And yes, most people in town i know go to the artesian well for their drinking water for themselves and their pets. I am sure there are those that don't, but when my toilet bowl turns black every time the fire department has a drill or a fire, it makes me wonder why people would take that chance..
The "village water is terrible" comment threw me....I was left to wonder about a C8, etc. level of pollution and it turns out it is only a chlorine smell and the normal issues of high water flow picking up material off the pipe walls at times of flushing or water breaks.
That issue can indeed ruin laundry and discolor water.....everywhere, in rural water systems especially.
But....more inconvenient and filter expensive than "terrrible".
Consider viewing thru a window instead of a microscope...and best of luck with any new pup down the road. :idea:

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:59 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
luvthemud wrote:Ya lost me.

The village water often times smells of chlorine, and can be contaminated by rust and particles when the fire department draws from certain hydrants. They usually warn the residents before doing so to prevent a load of laundry being ruined or someone drinking. Most people, like myself have numerous filters on our water, but still only use it for cooking. And yes, most people in town i know go to the artesian well for their drinking water for themselves and their pets. I am sure there are those that don't, but when my toilet bowl turns black every time the fire department has a drill or a fire, it makes me wonder why people would take that chance..
The "village water is terrible" comment threw me....I was left to wonder about a C8, etc. level of pollution and it turns out it is only a chlorine smell and the normal issues of high water flow picking up material off the pipe walls at times of flushing or water breaks.
That issue can indeed ruin laundry and discolor water.....everywhere, in rural water systems especially.
But....more inconvenient and filter expensive than "terrrible".
Consider viewing thru a window instead of a microscope...and best of luck with any new pup down the road. :idea:

Problem is, we never know when a high flow situation will happen and rarely can predict it. Much easier to take a 5 gallon water cooler jug to the well, which is only two miles out of town, and not worry. It is something that comes up at almost every board meeting, but there really isn't much that can be done.

I am sure it is fine in terms of pollution wise and whatnot, however numerous people I know with pets complain about runny stools after drinking the village water compared to the well water. Just last weekend we were at a buddies house and his dog was drinking from his kids pool. He laughed and said "well, he is gonna have the shits later". Like you said, probably something " normal" for the most part, but luckily we have a close option to avoid dealing with it.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:16 pm

I should add. The first question on the first trip of about 4 to the vet for my previous dogs stomach issues, the vet asked what kind of water he drank. City or well. She made it sound like it was a common issue for some city water to mess with the stomach flora and cause issues?

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:29 pm

IF, a fire department is causing a water issue with it's training schedule then the problem lies with that department and not with the water supply or the water system, to me.

Dogs or people can have intestinal issues with changes in water consumed...one can see that in travel or at restaurants....old story that.

Either well or "village" water can be tested to determine the existence/likelihood of poor quaility/improper treatment....an attorney will be on point to help. :wink:

Pool water treated with chemicals to keep it "Pristene" after kids have used it would seem more the issue than where the pool was filled.... as to a lapping dog.

"Terrible" still appears a stretch....fwiw, my setters can have issues with water found when afield and I'm pretty certain that one could be depended upon to sh** thru a straw when in Iowa.
Stuff happens.

As to the vet....I would pick city water over Iowa well water in areas of long term AG.
It's actually why many areas of Iowa have gone to water systems and well away from shallow personal well water.
The devil remains in the particulars and never in the generalizations.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:21 pm

Problem with that theory is those of us that are on the Rural Water system are drinking water that comes from the intensive Ag areas but that had nothing to do with why we are using it or not using well water.

I do agree it sounds like the problems listed are completely normal with any water system including your own well and would have little to do with the dog problems. Water is one of the last places I would look at as a cause of an allergy.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:30 pm

No theory for the specific of which I am familiar but that idea could hardly be and was not used to imply the same would exist for every created rural water system across the Ag areas of the united states...or water systems created across areas with their own realities developed over time and people and development.
As noted, particulars tell the tale best.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:05 pm

Mountaineer wrote:IF, a fire department is causing a water issue with it's training schedule then the problem lies with that department and not with the water supply or the water system, to me.
There isn't much that can be done more than what they do. I was a member of the department up until a year ago and it is something they think about, but certain circumstances arise that will end up causing issues.
Mountaineer wrote:
Pool water treated with chemicals to keep it "Pristene" after kids have used it would seem more the issue than where the pool was filled.... as to a lapping dog.
LOL, no chemicals in a kiddy pool, but if a person fills it on a treatment day, it can sure smell like there are!
Mountaineer wrote:"Terrible" still appears a stretch....fwiw, my setters can have issues with water found when afield and I'm pretty certain that one could be depended upon to sh** thru a straw when in Iowa.
Stuff happens.
Well, in my opinion, not being able to consistently trust the water that is supplied to your home is terrible. It is a subjective adjective, so we can certainly agree to disagree :)
Mountaineer wrote:As to the vet....I would pick city water over Iowa well water in areas of long term AG.
It's actually why many areas of Iowa have gone to water systems and well away from shallow personal well water.
The devil remains in the particulars and never in the generalizations.
We deal with that a lot here too. Mega farms are constantly dumping huge amounts of manure and waste and there are communities in the state that are almost in state of emergencies because their water supply has been compromised. If you google it, I am sure that there are all sorts of stories about it. The DNR is taking a lot of heat these days!

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:45 pm

#1) Oh well....and, I reckon one could do the math on your answer.

#2) Sunscreen, perhaps? :D

#3) You have indicated no reason to not trust your water...you have indicated issues with the fire folks and that you have experienced not uncommon water system realities.

#4) As I suspected...more involved than allergies and a returned dog.
Plus, imho, any DNR gets the blame for not doing enough.
Sometimes, it's true....often tho, they simply have convenient crosshairs upon them and responsibility/answers lie elsewhere.....maybe, even with the voters! :idea:

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:01 pm

Mountaineer wrote:#1) Oh well....and, I reckon one could do the math on your answer.

#2) Sunscreen, perhaps? :D

#3) You have indicated no reason to not trust your water...you have indicated issues with the fire folks and that you have experienced not uncommon water system realities.

#4) As I suspected...more involved than allergies and a returned dog.
Plus, imho, any DNR gets the blame for not doing enough.
Sometimes, it's true....often tho, they simply have convenient crosshairs upon them and responsibility/answers lie elsewhere.....maybe, even with the voters! :idea:

fair enough. like i said, we can agree to disagree. The majority of the residents in my small village are quite content making the short trek to the well for the water they consume. Up until 5 years ago, we could have private wells, but they forced them to be capped. We are lucky to have free alternative just outside of town. Going to get water has become a thing we do. 10 gallons actually lasts a long time and my daughter gets a kick out of jumping in the UTV and going on a "water run" LOL!.

http://wbay.com/2015/06/10/agriculture- ... ee-county/

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:09 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Problem with that theory is those of us that are on the Rural Water system are drinking water that comes from the intensive Ag areas but that had nothing to do with why we are using it or not using well water.

I do agree it sounds like the problems listed are completely normal with any water system including your own well and would have little to do with the dog problems. Water is one of the last places I would look at as a cause of an allergy.
I agree. The water question was asked by my vet when my previous dog was having digestive issues, not the allergy issues. When I was at the dermatologist she never mentioned or asked about the type of water.

The last dog had none of the stomach issues my last dog did.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by deke » Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:57 pm

We do a lot of mold and water mitigation, and one thing you always see is dogs and people with puffed up swollen eyes. A lot of times you can have a massive mold problem in your house and not even know about it. If you had a mold problem, and added a dog with a low immune system you could get the kind of reaction you are looking at. And if you think you would of noticed something like this, think again, I have been doing mold and water mitigations since I was 14. Last year my wife was getting sick more than usual, and her asthma was acting up. Turned out after a little digging I found two full walls in my house completely full. As soon as they were pulled out and treated her symptoms completely disappeared over night.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:04 pm

deke wrote:We do a lot of mold and water mitigation, and one thing you always see is dogs and people with puffed up swollen eyes. A lot of times you can have a massive mold problem in your house and not even know about it. If you had a mold problem, and added a dog with a low immune system you could get the kind of reaction you are looking at. And if you think you would of noticed something like this, think again, I have been doing mold and water mitigations since I was 14. Last year my wife was getting sick more than usual, and her asthma was acting up. Turned out after a little digging I found two full walls in my house completely full. As soon as they were pulled out and treated her symptoms completely disappeared over night.
that was actually one of the first things I thought of so we had our house tested/inspected. My brother in law just so happened to go through a situation similar to your wife which sparked that path.

Guy came in with some petri dishes, tape strips, an infared camera, and a bill for $400 LOL! Didn't find anything. Perhaps it is worth another look.

I have a hard time swallowing that if it were truly something IN my home, that my 7 year old daughter, who has lived here her entire life wouldn't show some signs of illness?? She rarely even gets a cold. I think the environmental trigger for the allergy is something outdoors.




Thanks for all the opinions and thoughts, both public and via PM. I have contacted a different breeder and hope to get on his waiting list for some GWP pups that will be available next spring. I will say, after speaking with this breeder a couple times, I now see the difference between a good breeder and a bad one. Thanks again.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by deke » Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:47 am

The whole petri dish method is a joke, well I guess it is an easy way to make $400.00 off of someone who doesn't really know what they are looking for. The only way to test that would give you the results you are looking for is an air sample test from different areas in your house, count the spores, and find if there is a significant difference between one room or another for a certain strain of mold. That would help you zero in on your problem area. It cost quite a bit more money, usually around $1,000.00, so if you don't believe that mold may be the trigger it isnt worth the cost.

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Re: Opinions/thoughts wanted on my current situation

Post by luvthemud » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:21 pm

deke wrote:The whole petri dish method is a joke, well I guess it is an easy way to make $400.00 off of someone who doesn't really know what they are looking for. The only way to test that would give you the results you are looking for is an air sample test from different areas in your house, count the spores, and find if there is a significant difference between one room or another for a certain strain of mold. That would help you zero in on your problem area. It cost quite a bit more money, usually around $1,000.00, so if you don't believe that mold may be the trigger it isnt worth the cost.
I assumed that the tape strips were for taking the air samples. Either way, I don't believe mold is a concern, but wwe are looking at selling our house, so maybe it is worth a other look. Going to end up getting it inspected anyway, so might as well add mold to the list of things to look for.

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