Gun Dog Forum

This discussion came up on another site and elicited quite a response. My wife and I are looking for a new pup and are close to getting one. One thing that has perplexed and annoyed me when visiting the web sites of any number of kennels is that they don't reveal what they want for a pup. (It almost makes me think "If you have to ask, you can't afford it") I fully realize the purchase price of the pup is only part of the equation of a lifetime ownership of a dog, but it's the purchase price that gains entry into that world of dog ownership - and for some of us, it becomes "look, but no buy."
So being as it may, is there a point where you can't get past the price being asked for a pup?

There certainly is and that is true for everybody. However, the common phrase now for the sellers at least, is that the purchase is the cheapest part of the deal. Very true, just as it is with many things, but you seldom hear that from the same people when they are buying a car or most any other piece of property. My concern has always been that too often pups are priced way over what a young couple with small kids can or should spend. And that is just the time that a pup is most important and not when you are older and the kids are gone. That is the number one reason that our hunting and fishing outdoor live style is dying. We either can't or don't bother to get our own kids out with a dog and spend the time with them in the field learning about nature or passing on what we experienced when we were kids. When you can buy a powerful computer cheaper than you can buy a puppy it becomes very evident where our kids are heading. And we blame the kids instead of looking in a mirror.

I think it depends on a) breed, b) pedigree (are the parents from proven lines or champions themselves) c) the breeder (are they willing to guarantee the pups and buy back if there are any issues, d) is it a first time breeding or a successful repeat breeding, e) how the pups will be registered and f) where are the pups located (some breeds are more rare in parts of the country compared to others). I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out as well. For example, I recently saw some E. setter pups listed online for $350 on a Facebook page. That's pretty cheap for a setter around these parts (hunting lines usually go for about $550/650 and proven field trial lines will run $800+) so I thought I'd look into it. Turns out that the guy selling them claimed they were from "championship" lines but had no registration, no health certificates on either parent, and was an unknown backyard breeder. Now I'm not saying that those pups might not have been good hunting dogs, they very well could have been. However, for all anyone knows that guy could have been breeding brother to sister or some other messy breeding situation and a buyer could have ended up with a real mess. It's a roll of the dice. I'd personally rather spend a few hundred more bucks up front and know what I'm getting, have dialog with a breeder that knows and cares about his/her lines, does their due diligence with regard to health screenings, has a clean environment where the pups will get a good start, and has a reputation for fair dealings. You're going to pay more for that. You may even pay a different amount for litters coming out of the same kennel (depending on the parents) but you know what you'll be getting. Anyway, I'm sure others will have some input here but there's my rather general two cents.

I never list a price. Some situations warrent some pups to be priced differently than others. Also, for the right home, I am sometimes willing to work with the buyer. So if I have a listed price, my perfect home may pass on contacting me because it is a couple hundred dollars out of their budgeted price.
Genetics has everything to do with the initial cost of the puppies. Later, age, training, and potential can affect those prices.

for the right home, I am sometimes willing to work with the buyer. So if I have a listed price, my perfect home may pass on contacting me because it is a couple hundred dollars out of their budgeted price

Thank for the response. Part of my concern in contacting someone who hasn't listed a price is that I will end up offending the seller were I to balk at the asking price.

The only way to know is ask. As long as you are polite when telling them their price is more than you can afford no one should be offended.

We list the price which is generally $800 or $850. My reason being I think they are reasonably priced and I want people to know what they should expect to pay. I am certainly not offended if someone offers me less. you know how much money you want to spend and that is your business.
I do consider my pups a better deal and I make less than my friend does on his $600 pups. His dogs have no health tests, he whacks off his tails and his breeding stock have no traceable blood lines. When you leave his kennel with a puppy it is yours for better or for worse. You might get a good dog I do not know.
The stud fee on our current litter was a bout $150 per puppy. plus two 14 hour round trips
My breeding dogs are master titled or at a minimum very good bird dogs. They come from proven blood lines that pretty much guarantee puppies to be as advertised. They have hip x-rays ,eye and heart checks. All of my shots, dew claws, tail docking and exams are done by licensed vets. They are guaranteed for life and we will take a puppy back for any reason. We replaced one that got ran over by the owners wife. We have taken three puppies back over the years and all worked out very well for a new owner. we put a lot of ourselves into our puppies. I think you get a lot for your extra $200. Some things are just worth a bit more.
To answer the Op's question , of course there is a point where you can't get by the price. A springer breeding acquaintance of mine sold there pups for $1500, they kept them until they 10 to 15 weeks old crate trained all shots that they needed and vet checked. My grandson bought my grandson bought one. I thought it was a pretty good deal and you have a fairly long weight if you want a particular puppy. In his case a black and white female. Since he payed his deposit they have raised there price to $2000. he would not have paid that much................Cj

MNTonester wrote:

for the right home, I am sometimes willing to work with the buyer. So if I have a listed price, my perfect home may pass on contacting me because it is a couple hundred dollars out of their budgeted price

Thank for the response. Part of my concern in contacting someone who hasn't listed a price is that I will end up offending the seller were I to balk at the asking price.

As with any commodity, scarcity and demand drive the price.

So for dogs, it is the rarity of the breed followed by the quality of performance in the pedigree and then sex of the dog with females commanding a premium.

With that basic algorithm, some of the rarer breeds will start at $1600 for just a run of the mill litter. On the other hand, a run of the mill litter in a more common breed might be $400 (over priced at that).

Along those lines, the German tested breeds start around $1000 with $1200 to $1600 being reasonable for a very well bred dog.

WPG and pudelpointers seem to run around $1600.

Ep, es, and gsp tend to top out around $1200 for an exceptionally well bred litter. Don't get me wrong, there are exceptions but they're usually adding value beyond the pedigree warrants. You look at a breeder like No Mars and his dogs go for twice the amount that you'd expect for the pedigree but, for better or worse, he is also investing a lot more time with the puppies including shooting birds over them.

However the breed where prices seem to fluctuate the most are the Labrador with decently bred dogs starting at an outrageous $1500 while the exceptionally well bred dogs start at $2000 and top out at $5000. With that said, the exceptionally well breed dogs are a much better value at $2000 than the cheaper dogs.

If you're afraid of insulting the breeder, feel free to pm me.

I'm raising my price...

Some of my best hunting has been over dogs that were free-probably mutts. Came to us as young strays, give aways, neighbors unwanted litters. Thought I was a big spender when I finally got to pay $20 for a Black Lab pup, where the females owner could point out the involved male dog.
My current pup, probably my last pup, had a gulp factor when we talked price, but is related to a previous dog I had for a long time and made a lot of good memories with. Turns out that the purchase price is just the smallest part. On any of them. Your dog is what you make it.

The puppy in my avatar...which is in need of an update...is this fellow here at 6 months...wet from dashing through my stream:



I'm on the East coast where I think things are gonna be pricier and was in touch with a breeder in the UP that was asking $1100 for their Llewellins. Found this guy next door in NY State and paid $1200. Knowing how amazing he is, I'd have paid much more. In the long run, that is indeed the smaller expense.

NEhomer wrote:The puppy in my avatar...which is in need of an update...is this fellow here at 6 months...wet from dashing through my stream:



I'm on the East coast where I think things are gonna be pricier and was in touch with a breeder in the UP that was asking $1100 for their Llewellins. Found this guy next door in NY State and paid $1200. Knowing how amazing he is, I'd have paid much more. In the long run, that is indeed the smaller expense.

Beautiful dog and, when i went to college in nh and mass, i had the opportinity to hunt over several. They became one of my favorite breeds. They just don't make sense in the deserts of the southwest.

Again, awesome dog.

Pato

Gordon Guy wrote:I'm raising my price...

Well to be fair, I'd probably only consider a half dozen or so labrador litters per year to be exceptionally well bred and, if I don't see the dog and bitch this week at the national amateurs, I'll see them in a few months at the nationals. They'll need to have complementary traits and pedigrees that offer a decent level of inbreeding.

I don't follow Gordons but I'd guess them from $800 to $1200. Is that about the proper range?

I'd say 600-1200 is reasonable for most field dogs of good breeding

ezzy333 wrote:There certainly is and that is true for everybody. However, the common phrase now for the sellers at least, is that the purchase is the cheapest part of the deal. Very true, just as it is with many things, but you seldom hear that from the same people when they are buying a car or most any other piece of property. My concern has always been that too often pups are priced way over what a young couple with small kids can or should spend. And that is just the time that a pup is most important and not when you are older and the kids are gone. That is the number one reason that our hunting and fishing outdoor live style is dying. We either can't or don't bother to get our own kids out with a dog and spend the time with them in the field learning about nature or passing on what we experienced when we were kids. When you can buy a powerful computer cheaper than you can buy a puppy it becomes very evident where our kids are heading. And we blame the kids instead of looking in a mirror.

People the age that have small kids rarely want to hunt upland birds, certainly not with the seriousness that would lead one to have a dog for it.

And before you tell me how wrong I am, it's my generation. Most of my peers don't hunt, and the vast majority that do chase deer and ducks. They are cooler.

Most people hunt what is available in their local area. I find very few that hunt that only hunt one specie. Many of the hunters in our area are younger but we do have a few of the older generation also. However, what we each see in our areas that are separated by several states and different game have little to do with what is common in other places. So it would be good to just drop this line I think.

I live in the midst of some spectacular upland hunting.

What would I pay?
1. What I could afford without going into any debt.
2. What I could talk my husband into.
3. Depends on whether I wanted a possible FT Ch ( $1200.00 ++) or a house pet( $200.00 +).

Sharon wrote:What would I pay?
1. What I could afford without going into any debt.
2. What I could talk my husband into.
3. Depends on whether I wanted a possible FT Ch ( $1200.00 ++) or a house pet( $200.00 +).

The dog in my avatar was over my cap. But he was the breeding I wanted, at the time I wanted.

So I guess I'll pay what I need to, to get what I want.

Thanks pato....he's an awesome pup.

Great point about the timing.

Might I have shopped around and perhaps found a Llew for a few hundred less? Possibly, but if it involved shipping, it would have been a wash or maybe even cost more. This guy was just a little over an hour away.Then add that the pup was born on 12/3 which made it the perfect age for a first hunting season and that sealed it. There was another litter across the State a few hours drive away but they weren't going to be whelped until later in the spring.

So yeah, timing and proximity are important factors as well.

What one pays for an upland hunting pup pales in comparison to what they will spend
on the dog over the course of it's life. so purchase price isn't really the BIG factor for me.
Find a pup from a breeding of proven parents ('proven' in bird dog arenas that closely mimic what
you intend to use the dog for) and then do whatever you need to do to get a pup from that breeding.

I see some 'designer' upland hunting breeds going for $1200 for an 8 week old pup and I shake
my head- the genetic breed pool is not only shallow, but also lacks breadth in such designer breeds.
When one can purchase a pup out of a National Champion for $800, it blows my mind that some
folks would consider spending over a grand on a pup out of stock that is relatively unproven.

To each their own I guess....... just love 'em up and remember- at the end of the day they're your dog,
not a pair of sneakers to be tossed aside if you decide things aren't working out the way you expected.

I currently have five E Pointers, and one E Setter. The five pointers are all directly out of or very close up to dogs that are winning or have won at the highest levels of horseback all-age trials. I paid a grand total of $75, for all of them combined, including the Setter. I am certainly not a breeder, but I do have a litter of puppies every few years. When I have a litter of puppies, I call several of my hunting or field trial buddies and offer them a puppy for free. The only thing I ask is, if they have a litter of puppies some time in the future, I would like them to offer me one. I am usually offered four or five very well bred puppies per year. I accept one every year or two.

Price is a funny thing to me. Much to my surprise, I have found that it is easier to sell a dog for $1,500, than it is to give one away in many cases. When a dog is inexpensive or free, the first question that people ask is 'what's wrong with it'. When I decide that a dog doesn't fit in my program for whatever reason, I try to find them a good home where they will fit. I'm not trying to profit, they are usually free or low cost. I'm always surprised that people are suspicious of this.

GrayDawg wrote:What one pays for an upland hunting pup pales in comparison to what they will spend
on the dog over the course of it's life. so purchase price isn't really the BIG factor for me.
Find a pup from a breeding of proven parents ('proven' in bird dog arenas that closely mimic what
you intend to use the dog for) and then do whatever you need to do to get a pup from that breeding.

I see some 'designer' upland hunting breeds going for $1200 for an 8 week old pup and I shake
my head- the genetic breed pool is not only shallow, but also lacks breadth in such designer breeds.
When one can purchase a pup out of a National Champion for $800, it blows my mind that some
folks would consider spending over a grand on a pup out of stock that is relatively unproven.

To each their own I guess....... just love 'em up and remember- at the end of the day they're your dog,
not a pair of sneakers to be tossed aside if you decide things aren't working out the way you expected.

Again, I think proximity is another factor. When you add 300+ for a shipping crate and shipping to that $800 dog, you're pretty much where I went.

When I start looking for a puppy I make sure there is $800 sitting ready. From there I go up depending on pedigree, parents lines and age. However I am usually looking at 8 week old dogs so I tend not to stray from that price point.

2 years ago I bought a double bred Fritz (walnut hill) puppy our of Sam and the mother was littermate to Sixth sens wyatt. By the time he was at my door with flights and exchange it was about $1200.

A 18 month old puppy is worth alot more than an 8 week old.

One thing I have noticed, with gsp atleast, is the test & show dogs seem to be 2x the price of competition dogs. Though there are exceptions.
I believe this is because of they type of people buying the dogs.

RyanDoolittle wrote:One thing I have noticed, with gsp atleast, is the test & show dogs seem to be 2x the price of competition dogs. Though there are exceptions.
I believe this is because of they type of people buying the dogs.

I think the reason why lots of the test dog (german, navhda, etc) litters cost more is because your investing a minimum of 12 months of training and not able to breed until they are 3 or older. On top of that, some of the breed groups will even control the breeding and even limit the number of breedings.

The last pup I bought which was a few years ago , I never asked how much I had to pay until I was leaving.

pato y codoniz wrote:

RyanDoolittle wrote:One thing I have noticed, with gsp atleast, is the test & show dogs seem to be 2x the price of competition dogs. Though there are exceptions.
I believe this is because of they type of people buying the dogs.

I think the reason why lots of the test dog (german, navhda, etc) litters cost more is because your investing a minimum of 12 months of training and not able to breed until they are 3 or older. On top of that, some of the breed groups will even control the breeding and even limit the number of breedings.

How is that different than a competition dog?

pato y codoniz wrote:

Gordon Guy wrote:I'm raising my price...

Well to be fair, I'd probably only consider a half dozen or so labrador litters per year to be exceptionally well bred and, if I don't see the dog and bitch this week at the national amateurs, I'll see them in a few months at the nationals. They'll need to have complementary traits and pedigrees that offer a decent level of inbreeding.

I don't follow Gordons but I'd guess them from $800 to $1200. Is that about the proper range?

Yep...I need to raise my price

NEhomer wrote:

GrayDawg wrote:What one pays for an upland hunting pup pales in comparison to what they will spend
on the dog over the course of it's life. so purchase price isn't really the BIG factor for me.
Find a pup from a breeding of proven parents ('proven' in bird dog arenas that closely mimic what
you intend to use the dog for) and then do whatever you need to do to get a pup from that breeding.

I see some 'designer' upland hunting breeds going for $1200 for an 8 week old pup and I shake
my head- the genetic breed pool is not only shallow, but also lacks breadth in such designer breeds.
When one can purchase a pup out of a National Champion for $800, it blows my mind that some
folks would consider spending over a grand on a pup out of stock that is relatively unproven.

To each their own I guess....... just love 'em up and remember- at the end of the day they're your dog,
not a pair of sneakers to be tossed aside if you decide things aren't working out the way you expected.

Again, I think proximity is another factor. When you add 300+ for a shipping crate and shipping to that $800 dog, you're pretty much where I went.

I hear ya'........... 6 years ago, I found THE breeding I was looking for in a GSP that I intended to kill a boatload of Grouse & Woodcock over.
My only problem- the litter was in Iowa. $500 later (for round trip airfare to pick up the pup personally & for the pup to accompany me home
in the cabin of the airplane) on top of the $700 purchase price, the pup was home. I've dropped a lot of wild woodland birds over this dog
in the last 5 years & I haver never regretted the $$ spent to get her from Iowa to my home.
Rob

RyanDoolittle wrote:

pato y codoniz wrote:

RyanDoolittle wrote:One thing I have noticed, with gsp atleast, is the test & show dogs seem to be 2x the price of competition dogs. Though there are exceptions.
I believe this is because of they type of people buying the dogs.

I think the reason why lots of the test dog (german, navhda, etc) litters cost more is because your investing a minimum of 18 months of training and not able to breed until they are 3 or older. On top of that, some of the breed groups will even control the breeding and even limit the number of breedings.

How is that different than a competition dog?

Because I've had less than a 6 months of training in a ft pointer and, in most of these competition litters, the bitches aren't even proven. It is always sister of __(fill in the blank)__, etc. Not to mention there are a 101 different ways and groups to title a competition dog.

It isn't uncommon for a German tested bitch to only have 3 litters in her lifetime since they are not even allowed to have more than 1 per year and their breeding required testing takes up the first couple of years.

In contrast to competition pointers, you look at the akc competition retriver litters, you're seeing dog and bitch as fc/afc titled and national/national amateur competing. Those litters are more that the German or Navhda dogs and will run $2500 and up.

polmaise wrote:The last pup I bought which was a few years ago , I never asked how much I had to pay until I was leaving.

Must be nice to be rich,

GrayDawg wrote:

NEhomer wrote:

GrayDawg wrote:What one pays for an upland hunting pup pales in comparison to what they will spend
on the dog over the course of it's life. so purchase price isn't really the BIG factor for me.
Find a pup from a breeding of proven parents ('proven' in bird dog arenas that closely mimic what
you intend to use the dog for) and then do whatever you need to do to get a pup from that breeding.

I see some 'designer' upland hunting breeds going for $1200 for an 8 week old pup and I shake
my head- the genetic breed pool is not only shallow, but also lacks breadth in such designer breeds.
When one can purchase a pup out of a National Champion for $800, it blows my mind that some
folks would consider spending over a grand on a pup out of stock that is relatively unproven.

To each their own I guess....... just love 'em up and remember- at the end of the day they're your dog,
not a pair of sneakers to be tossed aside if you decide things aren't working out the way you expected.

Again, I think proximity is another factor. When you add 300+ for a shipping crate and shipping to that $800 dog, you're pretty much where I went.

I hear ya'........... 6 years ago, I found THE breeding I was looking for in a GSP that I intended to kill a boatload of Grouse & Woodcock over.
My only problem- the litter was in Iowa. $500 later (for round trip airfare to pick up the pup personally & for the pup to accompany me home
in the cabin of the airplane) on top of the $700 purchase price, the pup was home. I've dropped a lot of wild woodland birds over this dog
in the last 5 years & I haver never regretted the $$ spent to get her from Iowa to my home.

Katy_Quail_point.JPG

Rob

Are you opposed to shipping them cargo?

I've always had great results with Delta domestically and with Lufthansa internationally.

Anyway, you're correct. The pup price is negligible in the grand scheme. An extra $1000 or $1500 spent on a field trial retriever prospect isn't much when you'll spend more than that in gas in the first 6 months of campaigning the dog.

An extra $500 on a hunting dog is like $50 per season or in other words a bag of dog food a year.

Sharon wrote:

polmaise wrote:The last pup I bought which was a few years ago , I never asked how much I had to pay until I was leaving.

Must be nice to be rich,

I am But I have no money

An extra $500 on a hunting dog is like $50 per season or in other words a bag of dog food a year.

An extra 5 dollars is a lot when your pockets are empty or the kids need school supplies. I know many will say they have no business with a puppy if they are in that shape. But I would rather think they have more need for a puppy than the person with the new gun and hunting clothes. A puppy that I think is important for kids growing up, much more so than a puppy for someone to travel the country with field trialing for their enjoyment. I know I come from the depression era and I have different perspectives than most of you younger people but I really do think most people today are pretty well spoiled and have no idea what it is like to not have money in your pockets for the toys you enjoy. Just look at this thread and we are talking spending thousands of dollars for a pup, not a childs education, and are telling people the pup is cheap at these prices since you will spend a lot more trialing and testing the pup. It seems many have have forgotten what 90% of people buy a pup.

I think that people that want a pet of lap dog are willing to spend more money on a pup or dog then our hunting dog group.It just seems to me they don't question the price as much as we seem to.JMO

ezzy333 wrote:

An extra $500 on a hunting dog is like $50 per season or in other words a bag of dog food a year.

An extra 5 dollars is a lot when your pockets are empty or the kids need school supplies. I know many will say they have no business with a puppy if they are in that shape. But I would rather think they have more need for a puppy than the person with the new gun and hunting clothes. A puppy that I think is important for kids growing up, much more so than a puppy for someone to travel the country with field trialing for their enjoyment. I know I come from the depression era and I have different perspectives than most of you younger people but I really do think most people today are pretty well spoiled and have no idea what it is like to not have money in your pockets for the toys you enjoy. Just look at this thread and we are talking spending thousands of dollars for a pup, not a childs education, and are telling people the pup is cheap at these prices since you will spend a lot more trialing and testing the pup. It seems many have have forgotten what 90% of people buy a pup.

Presumably the importance of the child's education is so that they may gain the means to be able to afford a pedigree bird dog so that they can be chewed out for having it so easy. Indeed if you're having difficulty getting school supplies for your kids, you cannot even afford a free dog from a shelter.

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:I think that people that want a pet of lap dog are willing to spend more money on a pup or dog then our hunting dog group.It just seems to me they don't question the price as much as we seem to.JMO

To some, dogs are replaceable. Sure, they want longevity, natural ability, health, etc, but if the dog doesn't make the cut, they are willing to move on with others. Not paying more than a few hundred dollars for their dogs is the normal, and the supply is there. People searching for a companion or a competition dog are generally willing to make more of an investment. For pet people, health is first and foremost. Health clearances and health garuntees are expected. Most pay more because they feel like they are getting the guarantee.

I live in a rural area where many live at or below the poverty level. Many have dogs, feed them well, and train them to have manners. Their utilities are often cut off for late payment, but they manage.

Over the years I've seen many well bred and expensive dogs that live their life in a kennel tucked behind the trash receptacle area of McMansions, and if I were a dog, I'd much rather live with the poor guy that scratches my ears and takes me for a walk than the rich guy that ignores me.



On this site, and many others, when a teenager inquires about getting a dog, the first responses are "do you think you can afford it." It may or may not be good advice, but I tend agree with Ezzy, we are putting this sport out of the reach of those we should be recruiting..., the young.

Luminary Setters wrote:I live in a rural area where many live at or below the poverty level. Many have dogs, feed them well, and train them to have manners. Their utilities are often cut off for late payment, but they manage.

Over the years I've seen many well bred and expensive dogs that live their life in a kennel tucked behind the trash receptacle area of McMansions, and if I were a dog, I'd much rather live with the poor guy that scratches my ears and takes me for a walk than the rich guy that ignores me.



On this site, and many others, when a teenager inquires about getting a dog, the first responses are "do you think you can afford it." It may or may not be good advice, but I tend agree with Ezzy, we are putting this sport out of the reach of those we should be recruiting..., the young.

If someone is at or around the poverty line or, as Ezzy stated, where $5/month makes a difference, you have bigger problems, than getting priced out of hunting with a bird dog, and much more important priorities to take care of like basic necessities, education, saving, retirement, etc.

While I believe that the #1 priority of the hunting establishment is to keep low cost hunting opportunities abundant to grow our ranks, I don't believe that people have the right to free or cheap commodities because I love this country, capitalism, and it's free markets.

A pedigreed gun dog is a luxury item like a tattoo, a new car, and filet mignon. Only to be indulged upon when the rest of the financial house is in order.

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:I think that people that want a pet of lap dog are willing to spend more money on a pup or dog then our hunting dog group.It just seems to me they don't question the price as much as we seem to.JMO

Very true!

I'll apparently spend more for a hunting dog than many, but I refuse to pay for a "pet".

pato y codoniz wrote:

GrayDawg wrote:

NEhomer wrote:
Again, I think proximity is another factor. When you add 300+ for a shipping crate and shipping to that $800 dog, you're pretty much where I went.

I hear ya'........... 6 years ago, I found THE breeding I was looking for in a GSP that I intended to kill a boatload of Grouse & Woodcock over.
My only problem- the litter was in Iowa. $500 later (for round trip airfare to pick up the pup personally & for the pup to accompany me home
in the cabin of the airplane) on top of the $700 purchase price, the pup was home. I've dropped a lot of wild woodland birds over this dog
in the last 5 years & I haver never regretted the $$ spent to get her from Iowa to my home.

Katy_Quail_point.JPG

Rob

Are you opposed to shipping them cargo?

Yes. I have a good friend who works for the airlines...... so does his wife. They both told me they wouldn't put a hog that they hated in the belly of a commercial airliner. 'Nuff said.

Many dogs are shipped on airplanes all over the world with no ill effects.
The breeders who put many years into developing a consistent line of dogs definitely earn the price they get for a puppy no matter what it is. It is a very tough battle.
If you believe the web site hype every body is breeding wonder dogs. Guess what, they ain't.
In the real world most people are not looking for a Field Champion................Cj

Wow some very interesting replies. Many with a lot of truths. When I started reading them I was on board with the 800-1200 dogs and had paid in that range for my last but she was also 15 months and had some training. I spend a bunch of time in the field and lucky enough to let my dogs run on small farm daily. I watch a ton of folks who bring the dog out the first week of pheasant season and expect the dog to be ready to go since he paid 1500 for it. The dog is clueless and the kids the guy brought go home and don't come back thinking it was much more fun playing video games at home.
Over the past year working my "hunting dog " on duck retrieves my "shelter" dog picked up water retrieves and he is now doing field work. He was free and a terrier mix to boot. My point is that someone should figure out what they want the dog for and then buy one they can afford. I recouped the money I spent on my PP in just the amount of pheasant and geese I ate last season with many more seasons to come. I would have loved to pay less but might have paid more. Sure wouldn't pay 2000 to pen up a dog in the back yard hoping it will point and retrieve birds on one day in the field. Also wouldn't pay 500 if I was having problems feeding my kids unless the dog was going to help me get that much in game.

pato y codoniz wrote:

Luminary Setters wrote:I live in a rural area where many live at or below the poverty level. Many have dogs, feed them well, and train them to have manners. Their utilities are often cut off for late payment, but they manage.

Over the years I've seen many well bred and expensive dogs that live their life in a kennel tucked behind the trash receptacle area of McMansions, and if I were a dog, I'd much rather live with the poor guy that scratches my ears and takes me for a walk than the rich guy that ignores me.



On this site, and many others, when a teenager inquires about getting a dog, the first responses are "do you think you can afford it." It may or may not be good advice, but I tend agree with Ezzy, we are putting this sport out of the reach of those we should be recruiting..., the young.

If someone is at or around the poverty line or, as Ezzy stated, where $5/month makes a difference, you have bigger problems, than getting priced out of hunting with a bird dog, and much more important priorities to take care of like basic necessities, education, saving, retirement, etc.

While I believe that the #1 priority of the hunting establishment is to keep low cost hunting opportunities abundant to grow our ranks, I don't believe that people have the right to free or cheap commodities because I love this country, capitalism, and it's free markets.

A pedigreed gun dog is a luxury item like a tattoo, a new car, and filet mignon. Only to be indulged upon when the rest of the financial house is in order.

Exactly.

Sharon wrote: A pedigreed gun dog is a luxury item like a tattoo, a new car, and filet mignon. Only to be indulged upon when the rest of the financial house is in order.

Exactly.[/quote]
Well ...Not Exactly ..really ?
It can have all the pedigree on paper , but it is just a pup !..What is put in after that makes it what it is ...Otherwise we would all just throw them manuals and programs out the window ? ...along with the leads and collars and treats .

Like anything else in life I get what I can afford- I have had some great dogs since college ( out in 1976) - paid as little as $75.00- 7 years ago I picked up one of the best I have ever had the honor to be around a , GWP for $200. Still going strong and the best upland dog I have ever hunted with. 2 years ago I decided it was the right time and I paid $1,200. Phenomenal potential- great bidable dog- it's up to me for the rest and everyday we do some type of training- But all of my dogs have been hunters for 4 to 5 months of the year- 2 months they are back country ski dogs- 4 months of the year they are fishing back backing dogs. 12 months a year they are part of the family. though I agree with EZZY on his thoughts- I can't put a monetary value on them- though no way in 1976 was I going to get a $1,200 dog.

polmaise wrote:

Sharon wrote: A pedigreed gun dog is a luxury item like a tattoo, a new car, and filet mignon. Only to be indulged upon when the rest of the financial house is in order.

Exactly.

Well ...Not Exactly ..really ?
It can have all the pedigree on paper , but it is just a pup !..What is put in after that makes it what it is ...Otherwise we would all just throw them manuals and programs out the window ? ...along with the leads and collars and treats . [/quote]

I think you're missing the point. When you have financial issues to the point that a $4 or $5 expense per month is the difference between your kids getting school supplies or if you're living below the poverty line, the luxury item being bought is irrelevant. It just shouldn't be bought.

It could be anything... a jetski, new truck, diamond ring, another gun, a dog, tattoo, etc; you shouldn't be buying it.

One of my wife's sisters, who was raised middle class with those advantages, is now living in subsidized housing, in the hood, with her 4 of her 5 kids (the high schooler lives with us, across the country, because he was doing horrible in school and we have great public schools) . She gets food stamps and wic. Free healthcare. Educational grants to cover school and cost of living, and huge tax credit windfalls each year ($18k last year) because, they aren't married, they split claim to the 5 kids. Every time they get 2 nickels, they go on a spending spree.... tattoos, new iphones, new Xbox games, etc.

I don't like paying for their luxury items and I sure don't feel like subsidizing someone's pedigreed gun dog.

If you can't afford it, don't buy it. Pedigreed gun dogs are an indulgence, not a right.

pato y codoniz wrote: If you can't afford it, don't buy it. Pedigreed gun dogs are an indulgence, not a right.

Tidy this up a bit ?
If you can't afford a kid don't have a kid.In the hood or anywhere else.
If you can't afford a dog don't have a dog . In the hood or anywhere else.
Pedigree or not , they eat the same ,and should have the same care .

polmaise wrote:

pato y codoniz wrote: If you can't afford it, don't buy it. Pedigreed gun dogs are an indulgence, not a right.

Tidy this up a bit ?
If you can't afford a kid don't have a kid.In the hood or anywhere else.
If you can't afford a dog don't have a dog . In the hood or anywhere else.
Pedigree or not , they eat the same ,and should have the same care .

While we agree, it just struck me as odd that some would bemoan pricing the poor or barely making ends meet out of pedigreed gun dogs.

Maybe I don't get it... life, liberty, and the ownership of pedigreed gun dogs?