Brittany - Size Question

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gar-dog
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Brittany - Size Question

Post by gar-dog » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:19 pm

My second Britt is now 10 months old and has completed her first heat cycle. Will she grow anymore at this point? She is so tiny compared to my other female. She is just 23lbs and 18 inches at the withers, being at this same weight for about 2-3 months. She almost looks more like a miniature greyhound than a bird dog! She could practically walk right through a picket fence.
Thanks,
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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by Neil » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:22 pm

She will continue to fill out some, but her height is in standard, and she still may grow an inch or so.

What are you feeding her?

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by gar-dog » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:24 pm

Neil wrote: What are you feeding her?
She is fed a dry grain-free dog food.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by gar-dog » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:25 pm

BTW, my profile pic is my other dog, not the tiny one.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:12 pm

It is hard to believe she has had 2 heat cycles at that age. I don't think they are closely connected to growth patterns. Would be my guess she will grow some yet. Think I would ty to up hr feed if she is that slim.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by gar-dog » Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:29 pm

ezzy333 wrote:It is hard to believe she has had 2 heat cycles at that age. I don't think they are closely connected to growth patterns. Would be my guess she will grow some yet. Think I would ty to up hr feed if she is that slim.
Thanks. To clarify, she just had her first heat at about 9 months - that is it. I may supplement some canned food or meat.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by Hoosierdaddy » Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:47 pm

We bought a brother/sister combo about 3 years ago.Big brother is a brute and is much larger than either of his parents he is at 58 lbs and is by far the largest Brittany i have ever had.The little hen was the runt and is short of 30 lbs soaking wet.My other Britts over the years were around 40-45 lbs.Your dog will fill out some for sure.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by Dakotazeb » Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:45 pm

[/quote]

Thanks. To clarify, she just had her first heat at about 9 months - that is it. I may supplement some canned food or meat.[/quote]

Rather than supplement with canned food or meat I'd buy a dog food that was higher in protein and fat. Check the analysis on canned food. Not very high in protein and fat. Any reason you are feeding "grain free"?

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Brittany - Size Question

Post by MGIII » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:23 pm

58lb Britt!? Wow. I thought My Brit was on the big side and he weights 43lbs.


At 10 months she still has time to grow.


Pics?
Last edited by MGIII on Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:30 pm

This is what happens when breeders ignore the breed standard.

Ezzy

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by Dakotazeb » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:37 pm

ezzy333 wrote:This is what happens when breeders ignore the breed standard.

Ezzy
+1

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by chicken19590 » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:20 pm

My little girl is 18 inches and at 6 months she was 20 lbs and at one year was 26 lbs. Her trial weight now is 28 lbs and her out of shape weight is 31 lbs. That is her at one year when she took first in puppy. She was laught at a few trial breakaways but praised at the 30 min mark but judges and galery. sounds like your girl with be 28 to 32 lbs.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by marysburg » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:45 pm

Our youngest Brittany is 18.5 inches tall and has a weight range of 32 lb. hunting and about 35 lb. or so in the off season. She is our smallest dog, but she is a heck of a dog and unless you need yours to fetch big Canada geese by the dozen, you won't need yours any bigger. Our other two are 45 lb. and 38 lb., but I can't say that the size difference made any variation in their ability to succeed.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by terrym » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:02 pm

My 5yr old male weighs 48lbs this time of year and usually about 46lbs during hunting season. 21" at the withers.
Image

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by gar-dog » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:47 am

Dakotazeb wrote:
Thanks. To clarify, she just had her first heat at about 9 months - that is it. I may supplement some canned food or meat.[/quote]

Rather than supplement with canned food or meat I'd buy a dog food that was higher in protein and fat. Check the analysis on canned food. Not very high in protein and fat. Any reason you are feeding "grain free"?[/quote]

The reason I am thinking canned food is that I know she will devour it - and it will be "extra" food in her diet.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by gar-dog » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:53 am

ezzy333 wrote:This is what happens when breeders ignore the breed standard.

Ezzy
I don't know where this statement comes from. My breeder has been involved with Brittanys for more than 40 years, in both show and field, and are very well-respected in the Brittany community. A breeder cannot 100% control what comes out - whether it be the 58lb dog mentioned in this thread or my potentially undersized pup.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:24 am

gar-dog wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:This is what happens when breeders ignore the breed standard.

Ezzy
I don't know where this statement comes from. My breeder has been involved with Brittanys for more than 40 years, in both show and field, and are very well-respected in the Brittany community. A breeder cannot 100% control what comes out - whether it be the 58lb dog mentioned in this thread or my potentially undersized pup.
The breeder can't control it but prior breeders could nave. The genes for the too big or too small though rare are present from their ancestors. I have a situation where my dogs are both 35 pounders and the male pups out of them are all on the big side with some going over -size. Looking back several generations there are several field champions that I know were oversize. Many people wouldn't have know that and wondered where it came from. It bothers me when I or someone else advertises pups as possible show and field prospects and then have them go oversize.

Ezzy

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by clink83 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:18 am

You don't get a dog 18lbs oversize when they are only supposed to be 30-40lbs by accident. A couple piunds maby, but not 18. That's oversize by 50%!

My male Britt was fairly skinny, about 34 lbs till about 1.5-2 then he filled out to about 38-40. 10 months is pretty young still.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by Hoosierdaddy » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:52 pm

Here is the picture of my genetic freak 58lb Brittany 22.5 inches at the withers.Standing next to his little sis on a hunt last fall.
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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by aksportsman » Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:40 pm

I've seen only one other Brittany that was close to that size at 55 lbs he dwarfed the others that the breeder had. The breeder refrained from breeding him for that purpose, worried about some criticism from the possibly similar sized offspring. Apparently the dog was a phenom in the field though, and I must say that big boy you got there is a beauty. I understand the breed standards but personally would love to have a brit that size, too each his own I guess. More on the lines of the OP Im sure she will fill out a little, I feed my dog a few raw eggs once in a while and during hunting season regularly to keep her weight up she hunts at about 32 and fills out at 38 and almost 22".

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Brittany - Size Question

Post by MGIII » Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:03 am

Hoosierdaddy wrote:Here is the picture of my genetic freak 58lb Brittany 22.5 inches at the withers.Standing next to his little sis on a hunt last fall.
He's a good looking dog. Seems to be in good shape too.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by jetjockey » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:16 am

Who cares as long as the dogs do what we want them to do. My family has been involved with Brits for over 40 years. Even back in the 70's, my dad bred a litter that turned out a MONSTER brit. It happens! Dogs are like humans, every now and then something pops up that suprises everyone. Maybe it was the pointer or the Setter that was mixed with spaniels to produce the first brits that caused it. I guarantee they didn't worry about the US standard back in France during the 1800's. If that 58lb brit was a phenominal bird dog and I needed a good sire, Id breed to it.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:52 am

jetjockey wrote:Who cares as long as the dogs do what we want them to do. My family has been involved with Brits for over 40 years. Even back in the 70's, my dad bred a litter that turned out a MONSTER brit. It happens! Dogs are like humans, every now and then something pops up that suprises everyone. Maybe it was the pointer or the Setter that was mixed with spaniels to produce the first brits that caused it. I guarantee they didn't worry about the US standard back in France during the 1800's. If that 58lb brit was a phenominal bird dog and I needed a good sire, Id breed to it.
And this is the exact recipe for having dogs with no resemblance to any breed. They are what we call mutts. Of course there are some that will perform to a standard but many that won't. Standards are nothing more than a blue print for a dog. Just as important to have a blue print for breeding as it is for building the next skyscraper. Without one you get something that is unrecognizable.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by cjhills » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:04 am

Ezzy is absolutely correct If you do not follow breed standards why have breeds.
They probably did not worry about the US standards in France in the 1800s but I am betting they worried about French breed standards And one was size. There is more to it than a phenominal bird dog....................Cj

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by jetjockey » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:31 am

ezzy333 wrote:
jetjockey wrote:Who cares as long as the dogs do what we want them to do. My family has been involved with Brits for over 40 years. Even back in the 70's, my dad bred a litter that turned out a MONSTER brit. It happens! Dogs are like humans, every now and then something pops up that suprises everyone. Maybe it was the pointer or the Setter that was mixed with spaniels to produce the first brits that caused it. I guarantee they didn't worry about the US standard back in France during the 1800's. If that 58lb brit was a phenominal bird dog and I needed a good sire, Id breed to it.
And this is the exact recipe for having dogs with no resemblance to any breed. They are what we call mutts. Of course there are some that will perform to a standard but many that won't. Standards are nothing more than a blue print for a dog. Just as important to have a blue print for breeding as it is for building the next skyscraper. Without one you get something that is unrecognizable.
I don't know, that Brit in the top picture that weighs 58lbs looks EXACTLY like a Brit to me.... Then again, I've seen Brits that were well withing the "standard" that I swore were springers as well. We had 6 pups out of my brit that we bred last year. Everyone of them will fell withing standard except one. Does that mean the one pup should never be bred because it's not in standard? It has the EXACT same genes as the other 5. Should we not breed the other 5 either because they we're from a litter that had one over standard dog in it? They all have the same exact genes.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:27 am

jetjockey wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
jetjockey wrote:Who cares as long as the dogs do what we want them to do. My family has been involved with Brits for over 40 years. Even back in the 70's, my dad bred a litter that turned out a MONSTER brit. It happens! Dogs are like humans, every now and then something pops up that suprises everyone. Maybe it was the pointer or the Setter that was mixed with spaniels to produce the first brits that caused it. I guarantee they didn't worry about the US standard back in France during the 1800's. If that 58lb brit was a phenominal bird dog and I needed a good sire, Id breed to it.
And this is the exact recipe for having dogs with no resemblance to any breed. They are what we call mutts. Of course there are some that will perform to a standard but many that won't. Standards are nothing more than a blue print for a dog. Just as important to have a blue print for breeding as it is for building the next skyscraper. Without one you get something that is unrecognizable.
I don't know, that Brit in the top picture that weighs 58lbs looks EXACTLY like a Brit to me.... Then again, I've seen Brits that were well withing the "standard" that I swore were springers as well. We had 6 pups out of my brit that we bred last year. Everyone of them will fell withing standard except one. Does that mean the one pup should never be bred because it's not in standard? It has the EXACT same genes as the other 5. Should we not breed the other 5 either because they we're from a litter that had one over standard dog in it? They all have the same exact genes.
Not going to comment on what you should breed to but I will tell you the pups do not have the exact same genes. There is not a single one that is like the others. They will have some genes in common but depending on the past breeding the numbers may be almost completely different. If they are from outcross breedings they will have very few common genes and if line or inbred they can have a lot of the same genes. This is what makes breeding so interesting and sometimes so frustrating.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by cjhills » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:25 am

The exact reason for line breeding or inbreeding, which ever term one prefers, is to get rid of the genes which the breeder considers undesirable. No pups in a given litter have all the exact same genes unless they are clones. Done long enough it will probably work but very few of us have the means, time or desire to do it. Hopefully we can gain from other breeders programs. To me that would include not breeding dogs which are way out of the breed standards. In a program such as this many really good dogs do make it as breeding dogs. Many do not make it out of the whelping box. One of the good things is freaks do not usually reproduce themselves unless bred to another dog with freak genes.....Cj

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by jetjockey » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:24 pm

cjhills wrote:The exact reason for line breeding or inbreeding, which ever term one prefers, is to get rid of the genes which the breeder considers undesirable. No pups in a given litter have all the exact same genes unless they are clones. Done long enough it will probably work but very few of us have the means, time or desire to do it. Hopefully we can gain from other breeders programs. To me that would include not breeding dogs which are way out of the breed standards. In a program such as this many really good dogs do make it as breeding dogs. Many do not make it out of the whelping box. One of the good things is freaks do not usually reproduce themselves unless bred to another dog with freak genes.....Cj
Even then they don't usually produce other "freaks".

I should have been more specific and said they all start with the same genes. What you get after that is a complete crapshoot typically. Unless you plan on getting scientific and genetically testing all the dogs in a breed, breeding will always be a roll of the dice. That's why I don't care too much about only breeding to a standard! Many oversize dogs throw small dogs, many undersized dogs throw big dogs. I feel it's a huge mistake not to breed to a dog that has superior trates in every aspect, but may be oversized, undersized, too white, too orange, or too roan. I refuse to limit myself to a standard, or an idea of what someone believes a dog "should" be.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by Sharon » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:26 pm

jetjockey wrote:
cjhills wrote:The exact reason for line breeding or inbreeding, which ever term one prefers, is to get rid of the genes which the breeder considers undesirable. No pups in a given litter have all the exact same genes unless they are clones. Done long enough it will probably work but very few of us have the means, time or desire to do it. Hopefully we can gain from other breeders programs. To me that would include not breeding dogs which are way out of the breed standards. In a program such as this many really good dogs do make it as breeding dogs. Many do not make it out of the whelping box. One of the good things is freaks do not usually reproduce themselves unless bred to another dog with freak genes.....Cj
Even then they don't usually produce other "freaks".

I should have been more specific and said they all start with the same genes. What you get after that is a complete crapshoot typically. Unless you plan on getting scientific and genetically testing all the dogs in a breed, breeding will always be a roll of the dice. That's why I don't care too much about only breeding to a standard! Many oversize dogs throw small dogs, many undersized dogs throw big dogs. I feel it's a huge mistake not to breed to a dog that has superior trates in every aspect, but may be oversized, undersized, too white, too orange, or too roan. I refuse to limit myself to a standard, or an idea of what someone believes a dog "should" be.
Your choice but not someone from whom I would buy a dog .

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by shags » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:03 pm

FDSB pointers and setters don't have a standard, and they've managed to look pretty much the same as they have for the last 125 years or so.

Don't y'all kid yourselves about AKC breed standards either. They change. Ask any bench person what's typey now as opposed to 10 years ago.

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Re: Brittany - Size Question

Post by jetjockey » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:48 pm

Sharon wrote:
jetjockey wrote:
cjhills wrote:The exact reason for line breeding or inbreeding, which ever term one prefers, is to get rid of the genes which the breeder considers undesirable. No pups in a given litter have all the exact same genes unless they are clones. Done long enough it will probably work but very few of us have the means, time or desire to do it. Hopefully we can gain from other breeders programs. To me that would include not breeding dogs which are way out of the breed standards. In a program such as this many really good dogs do make it as breeding dogs. Many do not make it out of the whelping box. One of the good things is freaks do not usually reproduce themselves unless bred to another dog with freak genes.....Cj
Even then they don't usually produce other "freaks".

I should have been more specific and said they all start with the same genes. What you get after that is a complete crapshoot typically. Unless you plan on getting scientific and genetically testing all the dogs in a breed, breeding will always be a roll of the dice. That's why I don't care too much about only breeding to a standard! Many oversize dogs throw small dogs, many undersized dogs throw big dogs. I feel it's a huge mistake not to breed to a dog that has superior trates in every aspect, but may be oversized, undersized, too white, too orange, or too roan. I refuse to limit myself to a standard, or an idea of what someone believes a dog "should" be.
Your choice but not someone from whom I would buy a dog .
That's obviously your choice. But there's no reason to limit a dogs ability. I bred to an oversize dog because I had seen him run, and he was exactly what I was looking to add. Plus there isn't a dog with his accomplishments in the country. So far, the pups look like we may have added everything we were hoping for, and they might end up better than their parents. If that happens, I'll be very proud of the pups.

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