Tonellis Rising Sun and line breeding

pato y codoniz · Post by **pato y codoniz** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:26 pm

So heard a RUMOR, some breeders are hesitant to heavily line breed on Sonny because his sire, Tabasco, wasn't a natural pointer, took tons of work to get to point, even then was pretty poor at it, and finally titled due to shear will.

Complete true? Partially true? Not true?

greg jacobs · Post by **greg jacobs** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:00 pm

You may have crossed the line.

Ms. Cage · Post by **Ms. Cage** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:11 pm

greg jacobs wrote:You may have crossed the line.

I think it's a fair question if the poster truly doesn't know. Hope some chime in that haves knowledge of the topic and not hear say. Myself, I don't have a clue. PM's might be proper

pato y codoniz · Post by **pato y codoniz** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:37 pm

greg jacobs wrote:You may have crossed the line.

Well, I have a friend that has a sonny sired and grandsired aa quality bitch. He has been tossing around different sires for the next litter and I mentioned getting a sonny straw (he'd be the sire, grandsire, and great grandsire would all be sonny). It was what I was told.

Now either he's full of it or he's partially correct to it or he's right.

Btw, I'm not bad.mouthing sonny or saying he's an undesirable stud but, when you're going 3 deep of the linebreeding, you better know all the faults as well as the good. Frankly, if the worst thing that he had to say was about the sire, it kind of validates sonny.

greg jacobs · Post by **greg jacobs** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:53 pm

The only people that are going to know one way or another are the FT people or breeders that have seen a lot of dogs. These people don't talk about other people's dog. Especially to strangers on a public forum.
I'm just sayin.

RyanDoolittle · Post by **RyanDoolittle** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:55 pm

Alot of TRS get with championships. Cant get a Ch if you cant point a bird.

Once you actually get into the competition world you will learn there is an easy way to title a dog and the right way. Some dogs need to be competed the easy way to get the titles.

pato y codoniz · Post by **pato y codoniz** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:38 pm

RyanDoolittle wrote:Alot of TRS get with championships. Cant get a Ch if you cant point a bird.

Once you actually get into the competition world you will learn there is an easy way to title a dog and the right way. Some dogs need to be competed the easy way to get the titles.

I know the difference between the right and easy way. I've sent it in both pointer and retriever trials. For example, I know a lower 48 pro that just took a truck of untitled retrievers to fairbanks alaska to trial there. I wonder why?

Look, the question is pretty simple... not going to hunt down Tabasco's last owners. I'm not going to play phone tag with Sonny's owners unless I decide that I want a straw.

I'm sure that somebody here has seen the dog or knows something that would confirm or refute what I was told.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:12 am

How many FCs has Sonny produced?

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:29 am

Disclaimer: I know nothing of pointing dogs or Tonellis Rising Sun

I have read a few of your posts and I must say I am a bit confused. First you were trying to see if there would be interest in using a son of this dog as stud (which I thought meant you owned a son). Now you're almost muddying your own waters with this thread. I really don't understand your angle, but I agree with Greg, the people who you need to talk to are not going to be on an internet forum talking openly about it.

Grommet · Post by **Grommet** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:27 am

I know retriever trainers in the South that go to Alaska to train in the summer because it's hot down here and they can train much longer in mild temperatures. I don't know of any that go there to enter less competitive field trails or hunt tests. Which I assume is what you are implying....

pato y codoniz · Post by **pato y codoniz** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:17 am

CDN_Cocker wrote:Disclaimer: I know nothing of pointing dogs or Tonellis Rising Sun

I have read a few of your posts and I must say I am a bit confused. First you were trying to see if there would be interest in using a son of this dog as stud (which I thought meant you owned a son). Now you're almost muddying your own waters with this thread. I really don't understand your angle, but I agree with Greg, the people who you need to talk to are not going to be on an internet forum talking openly about it.

I've never posted about sonny until this thread.

The bitch is a classic linebreed on Sonny (sire and maternal sire).

If we dip into sonny's gene pool one more time, with the good, we're sure to get some of the bad. The OP was brought up as being the bad. I'm trying to hash out the validity of his concern.

If nobody knows or wants to talk about it, it is fine.

pato y codoniz · Post by **pato y codoniz** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:20 am

Grommet wrote:I know retriever trainers in the South that go to Alaska to train in the summer because it's hot down here and they can train much longer in mild temperatures. I don't know of any that go there to enter less competitive field trails or hunt tests. Which I assume is what you are implying....

I'm not talking about pros going to summer camp. I'm talking about guys based in areas that would be considered summer camp states driving to anchorage and fairbanks to compete in the local retriever trials and nothing more.

Grommet · Post by **Grommet** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:26 am

Interesting. I've never heard of that but I guess it could be an easier path. But it seems to me if all the pros are heading north in the summer wouldn't it be more advantageous to head south to compete in the summer and not to Alaska. (Not trying to be a smartass just trying to think logically about how to make it easier to title a dog as I'm a big fan of the easy way.)

pato y codoniz · Post by **pato y codoniz** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:29 pm

Grommet wrote:Interesting. I've never heard of that but I guess it could be an easier path. But it seems to me if all the pros are heading north in the summer wouldn't it be more advantageous to head south to compete in the summer and not to Alaska. (Not trying to be a smartass just trying to think logically about how to make it easier to title a dog as I'm a big fan of the easy way.)

There are two guys in the Pacific Northwest that seem to be doing it regularly. I can give you the guy's number. He always seems to title a retriever or two up there every year.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:18 am

There are probably many reason that breeders would not want to heavily line breed Sonny, I would also bet that it has nothing to do with how much "point" his sire had or didn't have.

RyanDoolittle · Post by **RyanDoolittle** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:05 am

Grommet wrote:I know retriever trainers in the South that go to Alaska to train in the summer because it's hot down here and they can train much longer in mild temperatures. I don't know of any that go there to enter less competitive field trails or hunt tests. Which I assume is what you are implying....

Hea only here to stir the pot and cause trouble.

pato y codoniz · Post by **pato y codoniz** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:44 am

RyanDoolittle wrote:
Grommet wrote:I know retriever trainers in the South that go to Alaska to train in the summer because it's hot down here and they can train much longer in mild temperatures. I don't know of any that go there to enter less competitive field trails or hunt tests. Which I assume is what you are implying....

Hea only here to stir the pot and cause trouble.

When people try to deny the obvious (ie. Some will try to hunt out obscure or lightly attended event because they want a less competitive event) and label it as "causing troible", it is why the sport is going to die with the oldtimers.

Grommet · Post by **Grommet** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:51 pm

Not trying to cause trouble. I have never trialed a dog in my life. Just seeking understanding as to why someone would do that. Seems the solution is you shouldn't be able to host a trial unless you have X number of dogs. Sorry to derail the OP.

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