Mile Post 9 Trial Grounds - Idaho

Gordon Guy · Post by **Gordon Guy** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:10 am

I heard that the field trial grounds known as Mile Post 9 burned last night and this morning. That's bad news! The fire is still burning. There's a lot of country there and not much access to stop it.

mask · Post by **mask** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:17 am

We could see the glow on the ridge line from our house last night. I talked to a deputy and was told the fire has burned about 150,000 acres and the wind is still driving it. This morning we could see the flames just over the ridge line.

Gordon Guy · Post by **Gordon Guy** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:20 am

It's burning a LOT of Chukar and Sage Grouse country.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:33 am

Had a fire burn a couple thousand acres of prime sharptail ground, 5 years later it still had not fully recovered. This is bad news.

Gertie · Post by **Gertie** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:47 pm

This is a bummer. Here is the Inciweb link to the fire info. I hope the wind we're getting here in Central Oregon is dissipating a bit before it gets there, otherwise that fire is really going to be tough to stop.

http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/4475/

Looks like evacuations are in place and things are getting nasty. http://www.scrippsmedia.com/kivitv/news ... 44111.html

mask · Post by **mask** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:43 am

around 300,000 acres so far and it isn't done yet.

Gordon Guy · Post by **Gordon Guy** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:35 am

I was up at Hardtrigger Creek last weekend and saw several nice sized coveys...All gone now! Such a waste.

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:17 pm

Gordon Guy wrote:I was up at Hardtrigger Creek last weekend and saw several nice sized coveys...All gone now! Such a waste.

They are not dumb enough to get killed by a fire!

My favorite chukar hill has burned many times, and has not had any sort of effect on the bird populations. Unless it burned in a circle and cut off all possible escape routes. Wild animlas are pretty adaptive when it comes to survival. And chicks are old enough right now to move around just as well as the adults.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:03 pm

300,000 acre's. Geeze! We had a 100,000 acre here some years ago and the only thing that stopped it was the John Day River. Burned up pretty much everything from Hwy 97 to the river. I don't know what the terrain over there is like, only ever saw it from the interstate. Around here the terrain is so rough they can't really fight it. They control where it goes and hope for the best. Building's and homes are high priority to protect. one fire here years back, bunch of rancher's went in to protect a barn and got trapped. They survived it but it was up in the air for awhile.

Gordon Guy · Post by **Gordon Guy** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:20 pm

Well I hope you're right. The last article says more than 430 square miles. I stand corrected, not quite 300K acres, but close.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/08/1 ... .html?rh=1

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:53 pm

Come on you guys. Fire has been mother nature's conservationist since the beginning of time. Your grounds and birds will be fine.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:21 pm

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:Come on you guys. Fire has been mother nature's conservationist since the beginning of time. Your grounds and birds will be fine.

That has not been my experience with dry, sparse cover. We burn a 1/3 of our training grounds every year.

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:28 pm

You must not be doing it correctly. Like I said before. It's mother nature and not the end of the world.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:47 pm

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:You must not be doing it correctly. Like I said before. It's mother nature and not the end of the world.

You misunderstood.

I live in Central Arkansas, where it rains a lot and cover is lush, still we control burn only 1/3, leaving cover.

Mile Post 9 is high dry plains with sparse cover, several thousand acres burned. Those birds that did not die in the flames, will have little protection from predation and no food. Some on the edges will survive, and when the cover returns so will the birds. From the photos it will be 2 years at least, more likely 5.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:14 pm

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:You must not be doing it correctly. Like I said before. It's mother nature and not the end of the world.

Dumber words have never been spoken. Odds are very high that Mother Nature has nothing to do with this. If you can prove she did than I will eat my words but its usually a human that starts these fires and yes, they impact wildlife.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:24 pm

430,000 square miles burned! The birds can't just fly over the hill. But the real problem will be the lack of nesting, brood cover. But hey, no need to argue, we will see, hope I am wrong, but that is fragile country.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:17 pm

The report I read on this fire is a lightning strike. This will have an impact on birds, the fortunate things with birds however, is their quick turn around in favorable conditions. They may not be year to year per se, though a good hatch does wonders, but a couple of years can make a big difference. Big game is a different story, especially the browsing animals.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:04 pm

You would know better than most. I am basing what I have seen in the Dakota's, times a 1,000 because of the size.

mask · Post by **mask** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:27 pm

If you combine what burned in Oregon and Idaho, it is over 300,000 acres. Birds do not make a comeback in this country without perfect nesting and feed conditions. The biologist I spoke with said it would be at least 5 years before the bird population would return to what it was. Bear in mind bird numbers were just making a comeback from draught, poor hatch, and poor feed conditions for the young. So mother nature your butt, I guess it depends on where you hunt or whose ox is being gored.

SCT · Post by **SCT** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:59 pm

Unfortunately this will devastate the sage brush environment and sage grouse population. The reason is cheat grass, a fairly new inhabitant and when sage is burned the cheat grass takes over making it impossible for the sage brush to ever be the beautiful source of life it was for eons of time. It's a very sad loss IMO!

Leeza · Post by **Leeza** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:22 pm

Just got home from the Windy Ridge fire in the Burnt River country. Chukars are alive and well on the river, lots of nice coveys. And yes all of the fires in eastern OR have been started by lightning with the exception of one small one near Huntington.

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:40 am

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:You must not be doing it correctly. Like I said before. It's mother nature and not the end of the world.
Dumber words have never been spoken. Odds are very high that Mother Nature has nothing to do with this. If you can prove she did than I will eat my words but its usually a human that starts these fires and yes, they impact wildlife.

I suspect that the last time you heard dumber words was when the last time your gums were flapping.

mask · Post by **mask** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:29 pm

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:You must not be doing it correctly. Like I said before. It's mother nature and not the end of the world.
Dumber words have never been spoken. Odds are very high that Mother Nature has nothing to do with this. If you can prove she did than I will eat my words but its usually a human that starts these fires and yes, they impact wildlife.
I suspect that the last time you heard dumber words was when the last time your gums were flapping.

OK riki you're in Iowa and I'm in Idaho so I guess I get it. I guess I wouldn't be as upset if your house burned instead of mine but I would still feel badly for you. :roll:

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:10 pm

The wildlife artist Ross Young has recently moved to SE Idaho, and sent me pictures with the sky filled with smoke and ash, yet he is hundreds of miles away. This is serious. Tom White, a renowned Brittany campaigner just moved near the trial grounds, and called it a terrifying rebirth. Whoever is right about the fate of game birds, I pray for our brave firefighters.

Gertie · Post by **Gertie** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:30 pm

I'm in Central Oregon and it is so smokey here that they're advising people with asthma and other lung conditions to stay indoors. My sweetie is on a hotshot crew and has been out for 16 days working 16+ hour shifts. It's gonna be a long summer for all those guys and gals. I just really hope there is no more loss of life. We lost 3 just this week and 4 with serious burns. I've been in the fire scene for a long time and this is definitely one of the worst years I can remember. A little rain would sure be nice.

As far as the birds go, the bigger the fire the longer it will take them to recover. It's true that there were historic fires on the rangelands like the area near Mile Post 9 but back then the range consisted of mostly intact sage and by bunch grass communities that were fairly resilient to fire spread. With the introduction of non-native perennial grasses like cheat grass and medusa head the fires spread much easier, burn much hotter (causing soil damage and erosion issues) and get huge. 300,000 acre fires were not the norm historically. I hope that they do some re-seeding and do their best to keep vehicles out of that area until it comes back. Otherwise the habitat that was there may never recover and it'll just be a nasty weed farm. So sad.

Gordon Guy · Post by **Gordon Guy** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:56 pm

Those that have said the birds will be back are correct. However, the cover will not be back to what it was for 30 years or more. Well beyond my hill climbing / rock hopping / Chukar hunting life span. This habitat is not like prairie country of the Dakota's. Where burning can actual stimulate the survival rate of young birds by opening up the understory, and at times burning is used as a management practice such as in the south east US Quail habitat. Sage brush and the other brush types in this arid country are very very slow growing. Exotic plants such as cheat grass choke out native grasses and other vegetation. Now that cheat has mostly taking over, many areas have to be actively replanted by volunteers to sage brush before it comes back. Although sage brush and bitter brush are not needed to support all upland birds (Sage grouse will die without it) , the lives of Chukars, and Huns and Quail are much more precarious due to a lack of overhead protection. this will be reflected in a reduced carrying capacity. Where a three or four covey / 3 - 5 hour hunt is a success to write home about, a reduced carrying capacity is not to be taken without a tear shed.

Valley Quail, which require even more overhead cover than the birds previously mentioned will take even longer to recover. This area was also a wild horse sanctuary, there's been no mention of the fate of the horses.

Yes, fire is natures way but it's still not pleasant to watch.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:55 pm

Which species is the most native to the area? The chukars, the huns, the CA quail, the horses, or the cheatgrass??

The native species, according to our "short time frame" human emotions, are the biggest losers in fires of this magnitude, but fact is, natural fire has been part of their existence since...well their existence. I'm not bothered, "she'll" recover.

clink83 · Post by **clink83** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:54 pm

This fire is a huge loss. That area was one of few areas with large expanses of intact sagebrush, and was important sagegrouse habitat. The chukar will come back, but all the sagebrush obligate species are done. Under 4-5000ft sagebrush steppe doesn't regenerate anymore.

P&PGunsmith · Post by **P&PGunsmith** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:34 am

Gordon Guy wrote:Those that have said the birds will be back are correct. However, the cover will not be back to what it was for 30 years or more. Well beyond my hill climbing / rock hopping / Chukar hunting life span. This habitat is not like prairie country of the Dakota's. Where burning can actual stimulate the survival rate of young birds by opening up the understory, and at times burning is used as a management practice such as in the south east US Quail habitat. Sage brush and the other brush types in this arid country are very very slow growing. Exotic plants such as cheat grass choke out native grasses and other vegetation. Now that cheat has mostly taking over, many areas have to be actively replanted by volunteers to sage brush before it comes back. Although sage brush and bitter brush are not needed to support all upland birds (Sage grouse will die without it) , the lives of Chukars, and Huns and Quail are much more precarious due to a lack of overhead protection. this will be reflected in a reduced carrying capacity. Where a three or four covey / 3 - 5 hour hunt is a success to write home about, a reduced carrying capacity is not to be taken without a tear shed.

Valley Quail, which require even more overhead cover than the birds previously mentioned will take even longer to recover. This area was also a wild horse sanctuary, there's been no mention of the fate of the horses.

Yes, fire is natures way but it's still not pleasant to watch.

This response is right on the money and good for those who live outside of sagebrush areas.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:14 am

So I take it you are saying the fire kills the root system of the sage brush? I am surprised since it seldoms hurts the roots of other plants. Grass and weeds will start greening back up with the first rain usually.

Gordon Guy · Post by **Gordon Guy** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:23 am

Yes. After a fire goes through there are little craters in the ground where the sage brush root system use to be. When I first saw it I was wondering what they were, but then I realized that the top of the sage brush root ball burned too.

P&PGunsmith · Post by **P&PGunsmith** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:07 am

My understanding is that the fires used to burn spotty because it was bunch grass, but now with the cheatgrass it is much hotter. I know that the sage didn't always burn into the roots because the short little daggers sticking out the ground would trip you as you walk and pop tires on four wheelers. Also the sage would start growing from the root ball if it did not burn up.

fishvik · Post by **fishvik** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:23 pm

The major problem to sagebrush restoration with a fire this big is seed source. Sagebrush seed does not travel far from the parent plant. I'm sure the BLM is working on a mass emergency seeding and rehab project as we speak. With the sage grouse's proposed listing, protection and restoration of their habitat is a top priority. They will probably have every seed drill and helicopter seeder they can get their hands on committed to the fires in sage grouse habitat. As for chukars, my experience in Nevada, Utah and Idaho tells me they'll be back in 2 to 5 years. They are far less picky about habitat. They love cheatgrass. Precip in measured doses this winter and spring in the fire area will work wonders for chukar habitat, as it always does.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:16 pm

fishvik wrote:The major problem to sagebrush restoration with a fire this big is seed source. Sagebrush seed does not travel far from the parent plant. I'm sure the BLM is working on a mass emergency seeding and rehab project as we speak. With the sage grouse's proposed listing, protection and restoration of their habitat is a top priority. They will probably have every seed drill and helicopter seeder they can get their hands on committed to the fires in sage grouse habitat. As for chukars, my experience in Nevada, Utah and Idaho tells me they'll be back in 2 to 5 years. They are far less picky about habitat. They love cheatgrass. Precip in measured doses this winter and spring in the fire area will work wonders for chukar habitat, as it always does.

Wasn't too many years ago after a fire in the same area they reseeded from the air and were landing the plane right on a main gravel road (within eye sight of MP9 grounds). Had to sit n wait for them to land and taxi off the road to reload with seed before we could continue on to go hunting - thought he was gonna bounce off the top of the horse trailer settin'r down. Same area burned in this fire.

fishvik · Post by **fishvik** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:55 pm

DG, I'm sure the area has burned a bunch of times before. The sad part is we can't get sagebrush/native bunchgrass established before it burns again. Todays IF Post Register has a front page article about the fire and how the cattleman are arguing that if we had let them graze it would have never burn to that extent. With the conditions that existed during the fire, probably the only way fuel load would have made a difference was if everything had been grazed to the ground, sagebrush included.

mask · Post by **mask** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:15 pm

DG, what is a few years? I ran cows from MM9 south from 1976 to 1995 and that area has not burned until now. The fire you might be talking about was still a two or three decades ago and west of the highway. We just spent three days riding through the burned areas and it is devastation plain and simple. The biologist said it will be at least ten years before the sage brush and bird population recovers.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:28 pm

DG, what is a few years?

8-10 years maybe?? I lose track of time and remember time by the dogs I was hunting and I was running Stitchy in his prime at that time...so 8-10 years ago I'm guessing.

One decade...maybe. Well if you are going to make me be specific they were landing right on McBride Cr. Road about a 1/4 mile off the highway and said they were reseeding a burn over toward/near/on Mahogany...they flew in from that way, they flew back that way, I didn't follow 'em. Maybe it was from a fire 20 years prior and they were just gettin' around to it!!

I don't hunt the Idaho/east side of the highway much...maybe just down vaguely near a certain large distinctive rock sometimes.

Yah, it's a bummer for sure. Worked the dogs on a bunch of bombers in that country thru the years so feel for 'em.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:50 pm

They will probably have every seed drill and helicopter seeder they can get their hands on committed to the fires in sage grouse habitat.

Not sure how many they can get their hands on but I saw at least one helicopter and a half dozen range drills gettin' after it. High speed, out the window snapshots as I zipped by

:

fishvik · Post by **fishvik** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:24 pm

DG, We're in Boise this weekend at my sons hockey tournament. I plan to hunt south of the Snake Monday and Tuesday. Hope the mud isn't too bad. Saw a lot of huns and quail between Carey and Shoshone so may head that way if the mud is bad. Snow beats mud anytime.

meridiandave · Post by **meridiandave** » Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:52 pm

Thanks for the pictures. This fire burned up three of my favorite spots. I hunted just south of the burn this uear. While driving through the burn, I saw chukars. They are wonderfull survivors and the rocks provide the needed protection and grenup was great.

Sage hens are a different story.

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