Gun Dog Forum

First it was chocolate. Then silver. Just heard of "Platinum" the other day (apparently super white?). Now today someone on a FB group asked about good "charcoal" Lab breeders.

...Charcoal??? I didn't know Kingsford had it's own line of Labs. They're really stretching on their marketing attempts... :roll:

As long as people are willing to pay for them, other's are willing to breed them!

My buddy was looking for a good "hunting" lab. He kept sending me websites to look over, as soon as i saw "ivory'', or "charcoal" or ( this is my personal favorite) "Irish Cream" , I would text him back and tell him to move on. The sad part is that these people wanted big money for a dog with zero pedigree, and awful looks, just because it was a "designer" color. The even sadder part is that some dummy is paying it. My wife wants a labradoodle, I have flat out told her that is grounds for divorce. Not a chance in heck two grand of my money is going to pay for a mutt.

GWPtyler wrote:First it was chocolate. Then silver. Just heard of "Platinum" the other day (apparently super white?). Now today someone on a FB group asked about good "charcoal" Lab breeders.

...Charcoal??? I didn't know Kingsford had it's own line of Labs. They're really stretching on their marketing attempts... :roll:

I believe first would have been Yellow of the fad colors. Although Chocolate and Yellow date back to the 1800's they were generally culled.

nikegundog wrote: I believe first would have been Yellow of the fad colors. Although Chocolate and Yellow date back to the 1800's they were generally culled.

I guess I meant first in my personal history. Pretty sure chocolate was the first color I heard of a Lab beyond black and yellow.

Oh, forgot one: FOX RED. Guess that's one way to sell a litter of Irish Setter/Lab crosses.

'Champagne' is the new vogue ! ..
When you get 'White with chocolate' with hunting breeds, rather than Liver and white you guy's ought to worry

polmaise wrote:'Champagne' is the new vogue ! ..
When you get 'White with chocolate' with hunting breeds, rather than Liver and white you guy's ought to worry

Most of those are not new colors but just descriptive names for different shades od the basic colors. I question the silvers being purebred and I bet the platinum is silver. The red is the dark yellows and the whites are the light yellows. Charcoal to me would be black but hard to say what they are calling it. Chocolate or liver. yellow or white to red, black to charcoal and lots of people thinking they are getting something special. Oh well....................

The breed club has been trying to put a stop to it, the AKC wants it to continue, its all about the money $$$$$$.

ezzy333 wrote:

polmaise wrote:'Champagne' is the new vogue ! ..
When you get 'White with chocolate' with hunting breeds, rather than Liver and white you guy's ought to worry

Most of those are not new colors but just descriptive names for different shades od the basic colors. I question the silvers being purebred and I bet the platinum is silver. The red is the dark yellows and the whites are the light yellows. Charcoal to me would be black but hard to say what they are calling it. Chocolate or liver. yellow or white to red, black to charcoal and lots of people thinking they are getting something special. Oh well....................

Never !! ...Who would have thought ? ..Shocked! :roll:

I think Henry Ford must have had labs. He had the right idea ....." You can have any colour you like .....as long as it's black !"

Bill T.

For folks wondering about what a "charcoal" Lab is, this is the photo that was shared along with the post (agreed...appears to be just a shade variation of the "silver" Lab):

One of my black ones looked like that when they chewed through the blue bailing twine and got in the grain store

nikegundog wrote:The breed club has been trying to put a stop to it, the AKC wants it to continue, its all about the money $$$$$$.

How do you know the AKC wants it to continue? I see no possible reason for them to want that since all they do is keep the studbook for the breed club.

The AKC doesn't want it to continue otherwise they would recognize those colors. Black, yellow and chocolate are the only colors and anything else gets dismissed.

ezzy333 wrote:

nikegundog wrote:The breed club has been trying to put a stop to it, the AKC wants it to continue, its all about the money $$$$$$.

How do you know the AKC wants it to continue? I see no possible reason for them to want that since all they do is keep the studbook for the breed club.

1) The letter that was written to the AKC from the breed club last month and the AKC's response to it.

2) A "Silver Lab", is a mutt, the AKC makes very little money off mutts, by the AKC calling them purebreds, they get their $$$$$.

This got fired up again because a judge, at an akc show, gave a silver lab a placement and a ribbon instead of a dq for not meeting breed standards.

pato y codoniz wrote:This got fired up again because a judge, at an akc show, gave a silver lab a placement and a ribbon instead of a dq for not meeting breed standards.

Yea, ''Yesterday's news'' :roll:

I guess I get more concerned about leg length and weight than color. My neighbors fox red shows red when the sun is at the right angle and hunts really well. Actually meets AKC specs for Labs. The trend seems to be "bigger is better" around here. 100lbs is not uncommon.

pato y codoniz wrote:This got fired up again because a judge, at an akc show, gave a silver lab a placement and a ribbon instead of a dq for not meeting breed standards.

That "judge" should be removed.

Fox Red is not a recognized color...Black, Yellow or Chocolate.

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:

pato y codoniz wrote:This got fired up again because a judge, at an akc show, gave a silver lab a placement and a ribbon instead of a dq for not meeting breed standards.

That "judge" should be removed.

Fox Red is not a recognized color...Black, Yellow or Chocolate.

What ?????
No 'Tartan' ? ....That's a disgrace

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:

pato y codoniz wrote:This got fired up again because a judge, at an akc show, gave a silver lab a placement and a ribbon instead of a dq for not meeting breed standards.

That "judge" should be removed.

Fox Red is not a recognized color...Black, Yellow or Chocolate.

Fox Red is Yellow. The silver they are talking about hasn't been proved it comes from any of the three standard colors.

ezzy333 wrote:

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:

pato y codoniz wrote:This got fired up again because a judge, at an akc show, gave a silver lab a placement and a ribbon instead of a dq for not meeting breed standards.

That "judge" should be removed.

Fox Red is not a recognized color...Black, Yellow or Chocolate.

Fox Red is Yellow. The silver they are talking about hasn't been proved it comes from any of the three standard colors.

Huh? How is Fox Red Yellow?

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote: Huh? How is Fox Red Yellow?

Probably because it's Not Black or Chocolate ?

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
Huh? How is Fox Red Yellow?

Fox yellow is referred to in the breed standard. Silver is a disqualification, at least according to the breed club who is suppose to set the standard, AKC feels differently and is giving the middle finger to the breed club.


"Yellow - Yellows may range in color from fox-red to light cream, with variations in shading on the ears, back, and underparts of the dog."

nikegundog wrote:

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
Huh? How is Fox Red Yellow?

Fox yellow is referred to in the breed standard. Silver is a disqualification, at least according to the breed club who is suppose to set the standard, AKC feels differently and is giving the middle finger to the breed club.


"Yellow - Yellows may range in color from fox-red to light cream, with variations in shading on the ears, back, and underparts of the dog."

I guess I will have to agree with the AKC on this one.

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:

nikegundog wrote:

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
Huh? How is Fox Red Yellow?

Fox yellow is referred to in the breed standard. Silver is a disqualification, at least according to the breed club who is suppose to set the standard, AKC feels differently and is giving the middle finger to the breed club.


"Yellow - Yellows may range in color from fox-red to light cream, with variations in shading on the ears, back, and underparts of the dog."

I guess I will have to agree with the AKC on this one.

Fox-Red have always been accepted, this was a Silver Lab at the show (which got a placement), which is a disqualification. The Breed club has never had problems with "fox-red", its just a darker shade of yellow. What the Breed club has issues with is people breeding Weims to Labradors to get "silvers", and that is the issue with the AKC.

I haven't heard that the AKC recognizes the diff between yellow and "fox red". I cant tell you how many AKC events that I have been to including several Westminsters and never saw a Red Lab. I guess I will stick to black.

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:I haven't heard that the AKC recognizes the diff between yellow and "fox red". I cant tell you how many AKC events that I have been to including several Westminsters and never saw a Red Lab. I guess I will stick to black.

Sorry you haven't seen one. They used to be quite common years ago when yellows were just becoming popular. Fox Red is just a darker shade some what similar to a Golden. Big difference back then was length of coat more than color.

ezzy333 wrote:

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:I haven't heard that the AKC recognizes the diff between yellow and "fox red". I cant tell you how many AKC events that I have been to including several Westminsters and never saw a Red Lab. I guess I will stick to black.

Sorry you haven't seen one. They used to be quite common years ago when yellows were just becoming popular. Fox Red is just a darker shade some what similar to a Golden. Big difference back then was length of coat more than color.

Thanks for the education bro.

ezzy333 wrote: How do you know the AKC wants it to continue? I see no possible reason for them to want that since all they do is keep the studbook for the breed club.

Take a look on AKC website ezzy in the classifieds or whatever it is. There is a litter on there of silvers, champagnes and some other weird colour (perhaps this charcoal everyone speaks of). I would think that if they cared they would not advertise such litters

CDN_Cocker wrote:

ezzy333 wrote: How do you know the AKC wants it to continue? I see no possible reason for them to want that since all they do is keep the studbook for the breed club.

Take a look on AKC website ezzy in the classifieds or whatever it is. There is a litter on there of silvers, champagnes and some other weird colour (perhaps this charcoal everyone speaks of). I would think that if they cared they would not advertise such litters

So legally, you think they can turn down an ad based on the color of a dog even though they have nothing to do with deciding what color a dog should be to conform to the sponsoring breed club's standard? I think there is a problem with doing that under todays standards.

GWPtyler wrote:

nikegundog wrote: I believe first would have been Yellow of the fad colors. Although Chocolate and Yellow date back to the 1800's they were generally culled.

I guess I meant first in my personal history. Pretty sure chocolate was the first color I heard of a Lab beyond black and yellow.

Oh, forgot one: FOX RED. Guess that's one way to sell a litter of Irish Setter/Lab crosses.

Fox Red is a very dark Yellow Lab with a reddish hue to the coat similar to the reddish gold hue of very dark Golden Retrievers.

ezzy333 wrote:

polmaise wrote:'Champagne' is the new vogue ! ..
When you get 'White with chocolate' with hunting breeds, rather than Liver and white you guy's ought to worry

Most of those are not new colors but just descriptive names for different shades od the basic colors. I question the silvers being purebred and I bet the platinum is silver. The red is the dark yellows and the whites are the light yellows. Charcoal to me would be black but hard to say what they are calling it. Chocolate or liver. yellow or white to red, black to charcoal and lots of people thinking they are getting something special. Oh well....................

The dilute colors, silver, charcoal, and champagne have been proven to carry the dilute gene found in Weimaraners. All "Labs" with the dilute gene have been traced to two kennels that bred both Labs and Weimaraners.

ezzy333 wrote:

CDN_Cocker wrote:

ezzy333 wrote: How do you know the AKC wants it to continue? I see no possible reason for them to want that since all they do is keep the studbook for the breed club.

Take a look on AKC website ezzy in the classifieds or whatever it is. There is a litter on there of silvers, champagnes and some other weird colour (perhaps this charcoal everyone speaks of). I would think that if they cared they would not advertise such litters

So legally, you think they can turn down an ad based on the color of a dog even though they have nothing to do with deciding what color a dog should be to conform to the sponsoring breed club's standard? I think there is a problem with doing that under todays standards.

Just curious but why couldn't the AKC ban an add? Legally, they can do whatever they wish.