In need of advise
In need of advise
To start off on a good/fun note I started my GSP puppy on birds this past weekend and he took to it really well. Which got me thinking about having anywhere from 10-15 quail at any one give time. So I thought about building a small flight-pen (Just so they can move around on the ground) next to my pigeon loft. The problem I'm facing now is when I put the remaining quail back there and the pup found them I couldn't get him away, so I had to moved the quail down to the barn where he couldn't find them until I can take him out again. So does it make sense to put a small flight-pen behind the house or just forget about it and drive the hour to get pick up a few quail and pheasant I'm gonna use and leave them in ? I would use my pigeons but I only have 5 that I can use and the piece of property I'm using is a good 45 minutes away and I saw about 5 hawks on my way out, so I'm hesitant to use them until I really get them "legged up." Been trying to find a place closer, but have no as of yet. Also open to other suggestions by the way.
Re: In need of advise
Quail are prone to figuring out ways to die. If you keep them in a small pen they will lose their ability to fly.
As your pup gets older he will catch them. Pen raised Quail are not good training birds for starting a pup. Get more pigeons.........................Cj
As your pup gets older he will catch them. Pen raised Quail are not good training birds for starting a pup. Get more pigeons.........................Cj
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RayGubernat
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Re: In need of advise
I like pigeons for lots of things but that said, they can be hard to come by sometimes.
I do hate the mess that pigeons make and avoid having them on my property. They are the filthiest, nastiest birds I have ever seen.
If you have launchers, there is a lot you can do with both quail and pigeons. If you do not, then you need to be careful, regardless of whatever birds you use for training.
I currently have about 28 quail in a pen that is 8X12 X 8 high. I started out with 60 quail...about 2 years ago. All told, I lost about 5-6 birds dead in the cage over all that time. Many of the rest were used and re-used as they recalled to the pen fairly well. The hawks and foxes got their share. I have a catch crate next to the pen and better than half the birds I let out for training find their way back there after each training session. My training area is fairly small(2-3 acres) and is adjacent to the horse pasture inside which the quail pen sits.
As far as keeping birds, a lot of it is how you care for them. A small kiddie pool with an inch of construction sand in it will go a long way toward keeping birds healthy as will fresh water.
When launched from a remote launcher, most of them will fly well enough to get away from the dog. If the dog chases...well that is what the check cord or e-collar is for. I do go into the pen two or three times a week and stir the birds up, making them fly around.
I will tell you this...there is no better way that I know of to awaken desire in a bird dog than to put an eight to ten week old puppy in a pen with a bunch of quail. The pup really can't hurt the birds and they can't hurt the pup.
There are folks that will tell you that the best way to train a dog is on wild birds. That might even be true...if you actually have wild birds available. If you do not...planted birds work just fine, if you know how and when and where to use them.
Years ago, we hunted on a private farm where the owner also raised pheasants. We wojuld, very often walk the dogs out back behind the barn, past the pheasant pens and cast the dogs off to hunt in the first field. There were ALWAYS loose birds running around the pens, but the farmer instructed us to leave those alone, so as not to panic the birds in the pens.
After a few times up the dirt road past the pens, on leads...the dogs pretty much ignored the one to two thousand birds in those pens and went to the fields instead, because(I believe) they understood the ones in the fields could be shot and retrieved, while the ones in and around the pens could not. Later in the season, we could walk the dogs up that way without leads because they knew not to go there.
RayG
I do hate the mess that pigeons make and avoid having them on my property. They are the filthiest, nastiest birds I have ever seen.
If you have launchers, there is a lot you can do with both quail and pigeons. If you do not, then you need to be careful, regardless of whatever birds you use for training.
I currently have about 28 quail in a pen that is 8X12 X 8 high. I started out with 60 quail...about 2 years ago. All told, I lost about 5-6 birds dead in the cage over all that time. Many of the rest were used and re-used as they recalled to the pen fairly well. The hawks and foxes got their share. I have a catch crate next to the pen and better than half the birds I let out for training find their way back there after each training session. My training area is fairly small(2-3 acres) and is adjacent to the horse pasture inside which the quail pen sits.
As far as keeping birds, a lot of it is how you care for them. A small kiddie pool with an inch of construction sand in it will go a long way toward keeping birds healthy as will fresh water.
When launched from a remote launcher, most of them will fly well enough to get away from the dog. If the dog chases...well that is what the check cord or e-collar is for. I do go into the pen two or three times a week and stir the birds up, making them fly around.
I will tell you this...there is no better way that I know of to awaken desire in a bird dog than to put an eight to ten week old puppy in a pen with a bunch of quail. The pup really can't hurt the birds and they can't hurt the pup.
There are folks that will tell you that the best way to train a dog is on wild birds. That might even be true...if you actually have wild birds available. If you do not...planted birds work just fine, if you know how and when and where to use them.
Years ago, we hunted on a private farm where the owner also raised pheasants. We wojuld, very often walk the dogs out back behind the barn, past the pheasant pens and cast the dogs off to hunt in the first field. There were ALWAYS loose birds running around the pens, but the farmer instructed us to leave those alone, so as not to panic the birds in the pens.
After a few times up the dirt road past the pens, on leads...the dogs pretty much ignored the one to two thousand birds in those pens and went to the fields instead, because(I believe) they understood the ones in the fields could be shot and retrieved, while the ones in and around the pens could not. Later in the season, we could walk the dogs up that way without leads because they knew not to go there.
RayG
Re: In need of advise
You need a johnny house at your training grounds. You can probably get by with feeding and watering birds once a week or so. You will lose a few to hawks, but that is the way it goes.
Re: In need of advise
CJ... I would love to use pigeons, but your right they can be hard to find and the people around me who do have them want $20 a bird. Now don't get me wrong, they're good racing birds, but $4 versus $20 when it comes to them dying for whatever reason sits a little better on the wallet. Guess I will just have to trap some wild ones to use.
I like all of the comments so far, definitely have some things to ponder.
I like all of the comments so far, definitely have some things to ponder.
Re: In need of advise
I hear ya. I wish I could get $20 for a pigeon. You for sure do not need racers. Around here pigeons go for $3 to $5. Quail are around $6 or more.Bacon1676 wrote:CJ... I would love to use pigeons, but your right they can be hard to find and the people around me who do have them want $20 a bird. Now don't get me wrong, they're good racing birds, but $4 versus $20 when it comes to them dying for whatever reason sits a little better on the wallet. Guess I will just have to trap some wild ones to use.
I like all of the comments so far, definitely have some things to ponder.
Keeping pigeons is easier than keeping quail and they are no dirtier than any other bird. Birds just poop a lot.
I would increase the pigeon numbers and get them to where they will home from your training ground. No question the cheapest way is to raise your own pigeons. Quail are pretty much one time birds if you have to train 45 minutes from home. A johnny house helps but there are issues with predators,vandlism and poachers.
Good Luck.......................Cj
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RayGubernat
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Re: In need of advise
Bacon -
If you have an overpass nearby all you need is a flashlight and a big fishnet on a long handle. Pigeons congregate under overpasses and can be caught easily at night. The light freezes them. If you know any businesses that have pigeons roosting on their roofs, you can ask to put a baited catch crate on their roof. Pigeons also frequent farms. I had a deal where an Amish boy would catch the pigeons and keep them. I paid him $2 a bird and about half of them made their way back to the farm. Worked out well for both of us for a good long time. I had all the birds I wanted and none of the mess.
Once you have a couple of birds, you can put one out in a catch crate with some food and water near where some wild birds roost. The single bird will soon have company.
Once you start catching birds you can use them and let them fly away. They will go back to where you caught them initially and you can catch them again.
RayG
If you have an overpass nearby all you need is a flashlight and a big fishnet on a long handle. Pigeons congregate under overpasses and can be caught easily at night. The light freezes them. If you know any businesses that have pigeons roosting on their roofs, you can ask to put a baited catch crate on their roof. Pigeons also frequent farms. I had a deal where an Amish boy would catch the pigeons and keep them. I paid him $2 a bird and about half of them made their way back to the farm. Worked out well for both of us for a good long time. I had all the birds I wanted and none of the mess.
Once you have a couple of birds, you can put one out in a catch crate with some food and water near where some wild birds roost. The single bird will soon have company.
Once you start catching birds you can use them and let them fly away. They will go back to where you caught them initially and you can catch them again.
RayG
Re: In need of advise
I did that once Ray . The Police showed up to ask me what I was doing. 
Re: In need of advise
I know that $20 sounds crazy for a pigeon, but my suggestion would be to buy four of them, two males/two females. Yes, I know that is an initial investment of $80. Put those four in a coop and keep them fed and watered. In eight weeks or so, you will have four squeakers. Put the squeakers in a separate coop, and start using them when you are ready. Just keep repeating this process. This time next year, you will be selling pigeons to others. Yes, $80, is a lot to spend, but it may very well be the last money that you ever spend buying pigeons. The other benefit is that they will be well bred homers. If you decide to go train some place different, they will still come home.