English Cocker - American Water Spaniel or both

[JOESTEAD]

Hi, I've currently got 2 pointers over 10 years old (they haven't slowed down any, if anything run harder than ever, but for only 60-90 minutes at a time). I'm getting a little old (65) to keep up with them or road them to keep them in shape (rotator cuff tendinitis). So, if they pass on before I do (some days I wish that on them), I'd like to hunt with an active, less independant dog.

I looked at the Encyclopedia of Hunting Dogs and like both the English Cocker and the American Water Spaniel. I'd hunt them on woodcock, quail, pheasant, grouse and once in a while ducks (until it really gets cold). Also, I'm partial to females.

The newcomer(s) would be house dogs, trained from 15 minutes to an hour a day (not counting travel time).

My only worry against getting both would be that the AWS beats up on the English Cocker as I've heard they like to be dominant.

Let me know if you have any positive or negative things about either breed. As I've never hunted with either. Positive things about their breeders would be a big help.


PS I do love my pointers and will hunt with them until they or I drop, but recently they've broken my wrist, torn cartilege in my knee and helped me to a bout with rotator cuff tendinitis.

Thanks!

[Neil]

There are great dogs in both breeds, the line/parents more determinate than the breed. You might also consider a Boykin spaniel. I do not recommend two pups for any but the most experienced trainer, there are challenges.

Few find a flusher less physically demanding for the shooter than a pointing dog. A slower, closer working pointing dog might be better.

I wish you many more happy days afield.

[CDN_Cocker]

Sounds like what you need is a cocker. I have one and he is fantastic. I do mainly upland hunting with maybe a dozen waterfowl trips per year. I will say, if you're focused mainly on grouse, woodcock, and the like - none of the other spaniel breeds will compare to a cocker or a springer. They are the most popular for a reason. I love AWS and may get one some day but I'll tell ya, there is nothing like watching a little cocker with a ton of heart flushing a big rooster or busting grouse out of the thick nasty stuff. They are extremely affectionate and loveable in the house and you can't keep them out of the thick cover. The work completely for you, their owner is their entire life. As I sit here typing mine is leaned up against my leg. I'm the sun in his sky, and it seems to be the way it is with all of them. You won't be disappointed with a cocker.

[JOESTEAD]

Thanks, I think they would be easier on my body to train, walk and cheaper to feed too!

Any suggestions on breeders? I heard good things about Oahe (sp?) kennels, but noone that I know had any pups from them

[mnaj_springer]

I think they would be easier on my body to train, walk and cheaper to feed too!

I'm not sure they will be easier on your body. I've seen both types of dogs trained and am training both types currently. I think they are about the same, except I throw more dummies for my spaniel.

[CDN_Cocker]

LOL easier on your body? They never sit still... EVER. Oahe (tom ness) is excellent. My dog is from Flushing Star Kennels in Ohio and the amount of raw talent and ability right out of the box is amazing. Glencoe Kennels are also a top kennel.

[JOESTEAD]

I think they would be easier on my body to train, walk and cheaper to feed too!

I'm not sure they will be easier on your body. I've seen both types of dogs trained and am training both types currently. I think they are about the same, except I throw more dummies for my spaniel.

There's more to living with a dog than training.
There's nothing like a 60 pound pointer hitting the end of the leash hard after a cat on a 7:00 am walk. Or going behind you down the front steps... or dragging you through a mud puddle.

I don't think a nice little English Cocker will be able to hurt me all that much -- broken wrist, torn medial cartilege, rotator cuff tendinitis... etc, etc. I'm glad he's getting older... though no weaker.

[Neil]

But if they are properly trained they will not lunge, but walk at heel.

I have a 130 pound Great Pyrenees that has not taken the slack out of the lead since she was 3 months old. That includes encounters with all types of tempting wildlife.

It is important to note there are some smaller pointing dogs, a Brittany comes to mind, but also lines of setters, GSP, Small Munsterlander, etc.

[polmaise]

Hi, I've currently got 2 pointers over 10 years old (they haven't slowed down any, if anything run harder than ever, but for only 60-90 minutes at a time). I'm getting a little old (65) to keep up with them or road them to keep them in shape (rotator cuff tendinitis). So, if they pass on before I do (some days I wish that on them), I'd like to hunt with an active, less independant dog.

I looked at the Encyclopedia of Hunting Dogs and like both the English Cocker and the American Water Spaniel. I'd hunt them on woodcock, quail, pheasant, grouse and once in a while ducks (until it really gets cold). Also, I'm partial to females.

The newcomer(s) would be house dogs, trained from 15 minutes to an hour a day (not counting travel time).

My only worry against getting both would be that the AWS beats up on the English Cocker as I've heard they like to be dominant.

Let me know if you have any positive or negative things about either breed. As I've never hunted with either. Positive things about their breeders would be a big help.


PS I do love my pointers and will hunt with them until they or I drop, but recently they've broken my wrist, torn cartilege in my knee and helped me to a bout with rotator cuff tendinitis.

Thanks!

No dis respect ! I'm 56 ..A cocker or any small dog requires a big load of 'bending' or 'Kneeling' ,especially at puppy stage .

[mnaj_springer]

I think they would be easier on my body to train, walk and cheaper to feed too!

I'm not sure they will be easier on your body. I've seen both types of dogs trained and am training both types currently. I think they are about the same, except I throw more dummies for my spaniel.

There's more to living with a dog than training.
There's nothing like a 60 pound pointer hitting the end of the leash hard after a cat on a 7:00 am walk. Or going behind you down the front steps... or dragging you through a mud puddle.

I don't think a nice little English Cocker will be able to hurt me all that much -- broken wrist, torn medial cartilege, rotator cuff tendinitis... etc, etc. I'm glad he's getting older... though no weaker.

I disagree. Every moment you're with your dog you're training it, whether you like it or not.

I also agree with Neil that manners around the house are a matter of training, and you can teach a pointer to heel. Just as easily, a spaniel can "learn" to yank on a leash and tangle your feet up. What you condone, you own.

[polmaise]

I disagree. Every moment you're with your dog you're training it, whether you like it or not.

I also agree with Neil that manners around the house are a matter of training, and you can teach a pointer to heel. Just as easily, a spaniel can "learn" to yank on a leash and tangle your feet up. What you condone, you own.[/quote]
I agree , both mnag and neil give expert advice for the over 65 's with disabilities .? ..?

[CDN_Cocker]

They truly are a great multiple purpose dog in a nice sized package. Here's my guy showing off his versatility.

jakeofalltrades.jpg

[Neil]

The recent insults of the pointing Lab on another thread got me to thinking where one might make sense. I believe this might be it. I encourage the OP to at least consider a pointing Lab. Send one of good breeding to a pro for 2 months and you might have the perfect old man's dog, I believe I will get one.

[JOESTEAD]

Thanks to all. That dog does heel, but gets distracted. I stopped putting him in a harness to road him (by foot and hand).

He was 6 months old when he pulled me down the front steps -- a cat was napping under a hydrangea by the steps.

Thanks for all the obedience remarks, too -- especially the you condone it you own it!!

[IANative]

Another vote for a Boykin!