Training for first AKC Derby Stake, E-collar question
- JakeAndCash
- Rank: Just A Pup
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:15 pm
- Location: Clemson, SC/Chagrin Falls, OH
Training for first AKC Derby Stake, E-collar question
Hey all,
I am going to be entering my GSP into his first Derby Stake. He is 1 year and 2 months old, has been around birds and I have hunted him only a of couple times. I have never ran him in any tests. My question is this; since I have predominately trained him with an e-collar, what should I work on most before he runs the stake and would you suggest weaning him off the collar before competition time? I am worried that he won't listen to 'woah', that he will creep and flush the birds, and not listen as well as he does when he has the e-collar on.
If any of y'all have any tips that will help me and the dog in running our first stake that would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you very much.
I am going to be entering my GSP into his first Derby Stake. He is 1 year and 2 months old, has been around birds and I have hunted him only a of couple times. I have never ran him in any tests. My question is this; since I have predominately trained him with an e-collar, what should I work on most before he runs the stake and would you suggest weaning him off the collar before competition time? I am worried that he won't listen to 'woah', that he will creep and flush the birds, and not listen as well as he does when he has the e-collar on.
If any of y'all have any tips that will help me and the dog in running our first stake that would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you very much.
Re: Training for first AKC Derby Stake, E-collar question
You really need to read the rules, be nice to watch a Derby stake, and nicer to have a training group and mentor.
In AKC I dog does not have to stand to the flush, many win with little more than a flash point. His hunting application, forward race, and general eagerness are of more importance. Of some concern is being around horses for the first time.
Welcome to trials and I am not trying to discourage you, let the folks know you are new and they will be sure to help.
In AKC I dog does not have to stand to the flush, many win with little more than a flash point. His hunting application, forward race, and general eagerness are of more importance. Of some concern is being around horses for the first time.
Welcome to trials and I am not trying to discourage you, let the folks know you are new and they will be sure to help.
Re: Training for first AKC Derby Stake, E-collar question
I was a first time trial person once too; I understand from where you are coming
It would be better if he learned to hold his birds - without an e collar - before entering a derby stake, but go and enjoy yourself.
(Enforcing whoa can be done in the back yard with pigeons+ time.)
Tell the judge/ marshall this is your first time. They will be more than helpful.
(At my first trial, when the judge said , "Pick up your dog." I thought I had to carry him all the way back to the car. )
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Dogs are run in 2 dog braces. If your dog breaks it may cause the backing dog to break too. The other handler may not be happy , but don't let it bother you. It will encourage him to teach his dog NOT to break when another dog does.
This is a competition and some folk take competition very seriously - like me.
http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RFTPNT.pdf
It would be better if he learned to hold his birds - without an e collar - before entering a derby stake, but go and enjoy yourself.
(Enforcing whoa can be done in the back yard with pigeons+ time.)
Tell the judge/ marshall this is your first time. They will be more than helpful.
(At my first trial, when the judge said , "Pick up your dog." I thought I had to carry him all the way back to the car. )
...........................................................
Dogs are run in 2 dog braces. If your dog breaks it may cause the backing dog to break too. The other handler may not be happy , but don't let it bother you. It will encourage him to teach his dog NOT to break when another dog does.
This is a competition and some folk take competition very seriously - like me.
http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RFTPNT.pdf
Re: Training for first AKC Derby Stake, E-collar question
You are worried that he won't listen as well as he does with the collar - that might be a good thing. "Listening" skills are not the most important thing in a Derby stake. Hunting hard, ranging well, with intelligence and forward pattern are what you need. The only time you should need to "handle" the dog is on hard corners of the course and if the dog is going to get behind.
If your dog is "green broke", running too many Derby stakes may not be in your and your dogs best interest. IMO Derbies are best run with a staunch dog or hold them out till they can be trusted to be "broke". Poor flying birds, competition of a green bracemate and the lack of direct control in a trial stake can be hard on the training process.
If your dog is "green broke", running too many Derby stakes may not be in your and your dogs best interest. IMO Derbies are best run with a staunch dog or hold them out till they can be trusted to be "broke". Poor flying birds, competition of a green bracemate and the lack of direct control in a trial stake can be hard on the training process.
Re: Training for first AKC Derby Stake, E-collar question
In AKC Derby you can collar a backing dog, I always figured if I was close enough to grab his collar I wasn't winning anything anyway. The rules are available at the AKC site.
I wouldn't worry about the e-collar and concentrate on developing a forward hunting application.
I wouldn't worry about the e-collar and concentrate on developing a forward hunting application.
Re: Training for first AKC Derby Stake, E-collar question
I can't remember ever using "whoa" in an AKC derby stake. Your dog needs to point before he flushes, and his flushing is no big deal except maybe to you, depending where you are in training. In fact, dogs are not supposed to get extra credit for being steady in derby.
A great forward application is usually rewarded moreso than actual birdwork; groundspeed, uses of the wind, going to birdy objectives, apparent desire all count.
Sometimes derby dogs have a hard time giving it up after their time is called. That's where a solid recall or whoa might come in handy
Don't worry about messing up your bracemate ( unless your dog wants to interfere by playing, tagging, etc). Don't be suprised if you wind up on the other end of that, either. AKC derby stakes are pretty much "enter at your own risk".
Have fun, and good luck.
A great forward application is usually rewarded moreso than actual birdwork; groundspeed, uses of the wind, going to birdy objectives, apparent desire all count.
Sometimes derby dogs have a hard time giving it up after their time is called. That's where a solid recall or whoa might come in handy
Don't worry about messing up your bracemate ( unless your dog wants to interfere by playing, tagging, etc). Don't be suprised if you wind up on the other end of that, either. AKC derby stakes are pretty much "enter at your own risk".
Have fun, and good luck.
- MillerClemsonHD
- Rank: Champion
- Posts: 345
- Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:21 pm
- Location: Greenville South Carolina
Re: Training for first AKC Derby Stake, E-collar question
Jake,
The grounds where we are holding our fun trial is completely fenced and will be a good opportunity to see where you stand with your training. I turned my whole litter of pups loose there all together many times last year and always got them rounded back up. We will be answering training questions, offer advice, etc. There will be a handful of other people there in the same position as you as having not been to a trial before which is why we decided to put on the fun trial. Our goal is to help make sure we get all the questions we can answered, and have some fun.
The grounds where we are holding our fun trial is completely fenced and will be a good opportunity to see where you stand with your training. I turned my whole litter of pups loose there all together many times last year and always got them rounded back up. We will be answering training questions, offer advice, etc. There will be a handful of other people there in the same position as you as having not been to a trial before which is why we decided to put on the fun trial. Our goal is to help make sure we get all the questions we can answered, and have some fun.
- AZ Brittany Guy
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 1417
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:00 pm
- Location: Arizona
Re: Training for first AKC Derby Stake, E-collar question
Turn your dog loose and have fun. Let his instincts do the rest. If anything, work with your dog to stay to the front. The bigger he runs the more the judges like him. DO NOT HACK HIM! Remember keep verbal commands to a minimum. "silence is golden, duct tape is silver"