Taking my pup to North Dakota

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northwoodshunter
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Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by northwoodshunter » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:48 pm

I have a setter pup that is almost 6mo and im going to north dakota for opening pheasant hunting, and we hunt on a relatives land, and im bringing my pup, but i posted on a different forum and everyone said to only have me and him or maybe one other person, and i plan on doing that too after we limit out or close to limit out, but i had the opportunity to call and talk to a trainer i may take him to when he is a year old, and he said if the dog is not gun shy and has heard a gun(he has) and seen birds, take himout on the drives too for a bit then put him in the truck then skip a drive go the next, like every other. i figured it is a good idea as there are older pretty dang good pointers that go with and i figured letting him run by them a few times would be good. He will have check cord too. I am not the one driving out there so i can only have him out by himself after we limit or close to limit and when we usually just chat with our relatives. Is it a good idea to take him on a few drives or just only do when we limit out?

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Sharon
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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by Sharon » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:33 pm

Makes me nervous. " has heard a gun" is very different from several people shooting around pup. I'd only take pup when you have limited out. Just what I would do ; I could be wrong.

mnaj_springer
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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by mnaj_springer » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:03 pm

The advice about going out with you or just one friend is sound. Lots of guns on a drive, let alone the number of people can be intimidating for a young dog. There's no need to rush with a 6 month old pup. You will may years to hunt him with others.

Also, young dogs don't learn to hunt by watching older dogs. Running with experienced dogs usually teaches a pup to chase dogs because they lead to birds. Hunting him alone will teach him to hunt, rather than chase dogs.

northwoodshunter
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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by northwoodshunter » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:50 pm

Alright thats probably what ill do. If he is finding birds and gets the hang of it i might take him out on the last 1 or 2 drives. and sorry by has heard guns i mean he has been introduced to a full 12 ga already multiple times, but hasnt been shot around for a while. When i introduce him to it he has feathers from pheasants to chase.
If i take him out i think ill just go farther away from the others, as we are usually spread out pretty good, and i would just make sure the closest person or dog is my cousin and his gsp who both know my pup good and helped intro to bird and gun.
Thanks

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Donnytpburge
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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by Donnytpburge » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:48 pm

IMO taking a 6 month old on a drive is a bad idea. I would shoot some birds for him and let him cover some ground, but keep the pressure low. I would let him set the pace and learn, and keep it quiet as possible.

DB

northwoodshunter
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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by northwoodshunter » Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:52 pm

That is what i pretty much plan on doing. But if there is a drive towards the end that is very open, i might take him on it as me and my cousin are the ones usually by each other, but still spaced, if its a big enough drive it won't be much pressure, as the only people around would be me my cousin and his gsp that he knows both well.
Thank you all for the advice, and i will probably not take him on any drives, The only reason i felt i needed to ask was because 2 trainers have told me that if it is an open drive to do it and he should be fine, and he will get on even more birds then
Thanks

-Northwoodshunter

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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by Neil » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:08 pm

northwoodshunter wrote:That is what i pretty much plan on doing. But if there is a drive towards the end that is very open, i might take him on it as me and my cousin are the ones usually by each other, but still spaced, if its a big enough drive it won't be much pressure, as the only people around would be me my cousin and his gsp that he knows both well.
Thank you all for the advice, and i will probably not take him on any drives, The only reason i felt i needed to ask was because 2 trainers have told me that if it is an open drive to do it and he should be fine, and he will get on even more birds then
Thanks

-Northwoodshunter
First I am not a fan of drives, but if I were to go on one, it would depend on the dog's maturity and attitude. I have had some at that age I would, others I wouldn't. I would think the trainers would know best.

northwoodshunter
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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by northwoodshunter » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:16 pm

He seems fairly mature compared to other dogs i have had by 6 months. although they weren't bird dogs, they were beagles and a lab/golden that wasn't a hunter, and house dogs. But like i said i agree with you and others, just was only gonna go out on the open drives to keep him away from all the pressure and all the people.
thanks again for the advice

-Northwoodshunter

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gonehuntin'
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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:26 am

Sounds like a disaster in the making to me. There is not one thing about the scenario you present that makes any sense to me.

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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by shags » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:38 am

It sounds like you're over-anxious and pushing.
Look, your dog might be coming along great, and that's a good thing. But just because he picks up training pretty well doesn't mean he's mature enough to be able to figure things out and make decisions that bird dogs need to be able to make. That takes experience and patience on your part to give him that experience. Chaos with multiple dogs and shooters won't help your dog. How are you going to handle other dogs interefering with yours, or yours interfering with the other dogs? How can you guarantee who takes what shot when under various circumstances. One train wreck can set your dog back a long way.
Can you take advantage of this trip by going off with your dog totally on your own, for a good walk afield? He can hunt and bump, or hunt and point, without pressure. At six months field experience should be basically happy-timing.
And why the check cord? That conveys the impression that you'll be doing some training. Which can go south in a hurry with other guys and their dogs running amok, and no real plan for what you hope to accomplish. Your dog, do what you want. But in my expereince folks who push and hurry usually wind up wondering how to fix gun-shy, how to get their dog out from underfoot, how to debolt, or myriad other problems.
Take it slow and easy and let your pup grow up without so much pressure on your part.

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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by PntrRookie » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:16 am

Pointing dogs do NOT belong on DRIVES...IMO drives are for flushing and retrieving dogs. When all heck breaks loose at the end of your drive, so will your pup...NOT good.

Take your pup out alone and let him POINT and figure it out on his own.

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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by reba » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:26 am

Young Pointers on running roosters is a real bad idea...................................................

northwoodshunter
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Post by northwoodshunter » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:50 pm

I'm not in a rush to get him training I just figured it'd be good for him. Like I said though depending on how open the drives are I probably will only walk him by myself or with my cousin after we limit out or are close too doing so. The check cord would be to make sure he doesn't run off not training. Sometimes he takes off, and being somewhere unfamiliar for a pup I will not lose him

northwoodshunter
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Post by northwoodshunter » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:53 pm

Alright. Right now where we are going usually around this time they seem to hood pretty tight. But would it even be worth taking him if he only goes out after we limit our are close? I figured it would be.

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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by Neil » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:45 pm

I had a Brittany that later placed in field trials that I hunted as a non-slip retriever at that age.

I still say listen to the trainers that know more about the dog than the well meaning people here.

northwoodshunter
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Post by northwoodshunter » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:23 pm

I ended up taking him on the first drive which I had an opportunity to run him with 2 really good pointing dogs. No check cord and he was looking for birds but didn't find any. Chased Tweety birds to far but came back after he lost them. Later that day, me my 2 cousins and 2 other people that hunt with us went to get the youngest Jim first rooster in a tree line. I had my pup on a check cord this one. Went into the tree row and pointed, I got to his front leg and he busted it, it got shot at and we didn't think it got hit do finished the tree row and turned around to try pointing that rooster again, and instead he found the dead rooster! The other thing I did with him was shorter drive with him on a check cord, and he pointed then it might have ran not sure, but he tried to relocate and he accidentally busted a hen.

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OhioVizsla
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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by OhioVizsla » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:50 am

I'm no expert, but I've had pointing dogs for 50 years. Taking him to North Dakota is a great idea, but I would run him alone without any other hunters with you. I probably wouldn't even take a gun the first day & then after that only shoot if he pointed & didn't move until you flushed the bird. A puppy busting a wild bird is not a problem, it only becomes a problem when someone shoots that bird. Now you're turning a pointer into flushing dog! You're teaching the dog that its OK to bust it, since you'll just shoot it anyway & that's not good. A dog that busts birds will quickly figure it out that it will not be able to get (retrieve) the bird unless it points & holds.

As stated before, a driven hunt is not the place for a puppy, too many bad things can happen. Run you dog by yourself & let him figure out how to find birds on his own.

Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by cjhills » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:27 am

I pretty much agree with everybody on here , that it may be a bad idea for you. But all of my dogs are started on driven hunts at about six months to a year. In good years with a lot of birds it is chaos. They are not controlled in any way. They run with flushers and pointers. They bust birds and point birds. They retrieve birds. It is mostly family and friends and all we try to do is get the birds in the air. Basically if it flies it dies. The pups love it they have a great time and go from puppies to little bird dogs in a week. Most of these pups will be guide dogs with MH titles by the time they are three....................Cj

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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by mnaj_springer » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:41 am

OhioVizsla wrote:I'm no expert, but I've had pointing dogs for 50 years. Taking him to North Dakota is a great idea, but I would run him alone without any other hunters with you. I probably wouldn't even take a gun the first day & then after that only shoot if he pointed & didn't move until you flushed the bird. A puppy busting a wild bird is not a problem, it only becomes a problem when someone shoots that bird. Now you're turning a pointer into flushing dog! You're teaching the dog that its OK to bust it, since you'll just shoot it anyway & that's not good. A dog that busts birds will quickly figure it out that it will not be able to get (retrieve) the bird unless it points & holds.

As stated before, a driven hunt is not the place for a puppy, too many bad things can happen. Run you dog by yourself & let him figure out how to find birds on his own.

Just my 2 cents.
I agree with all that you're saying, but the sentence I put in bold is based on the assumption that a dog WANTS to retrieve and the retrieve is the reward. But what happens if the dog has no interest in retrieves? At that point you may have to alter your approach.

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OhioVizsla
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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by OhioVizsla » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:33 pm

mnaj_springer,

His dog has already busted a rooster that he then shot, then the dog found it. It must have run after it, or at least went into the area to find it.
Typically a young dog like that will run to the next county to try & catch the bird after the flush. They learn quickly that there is so sense in chasing it if the gun doesn't fire. I don't shock, or yell, just let them run. Don't put so much emphasis on putting a bird in your coat, they'll be plenty of time for that later when it's pointing to flush. I don't believe in the check cord route if they are running on wild birds, they aren't going to catch them. Now at a controlled training exercise, yes I would walk them in on a cord so there is no chance of catching the planted bird, plus he can't run down the bird after the flush.

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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by Wilber » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:48 pm

Last year I took my setter pup to North Dakota at about six months old. She had been out after grouse but seemed disturbed by gunshots despite careful introduction. I decided to take her to ND before the season opened to work her on wild birds. It being ND we got into birds right out of the truck. The first bird seemed to spook her a bit when it flushed. The second seemed to catch her interest. The third had her chasing after the flush. Within a half hour she was an enthusiastic bird finding machine. You could almost see the light turn on as she realized she liked this game! I then began firing a starter pistol with virtually no reaction on her part. She was all about the birds.

I returned a few weeks later for the season opener with a pretty credible bird dog. Yes, she busted more than she pointed and over-ran many birds, but did okay. I think taking her out to learn the game with no pressure and just birds worked great. By the end of last season she was working well. I just returned from the SD opener where she did great despite challenging conditions - 90 degrees and 30 mph wind. There are few things as fulfilling as watching a dog born to its task. I hope yours does as well.

Dave
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Neil
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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by Neil » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:14 pm

Hope you meant ND not SD opener, or I am a week late.

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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by Wilber » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:15 am

We were on the Rosebud Res. They open on the 10th.

Neil
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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by Neil » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:41 am

Wilber wrote:We were on the Rosebud Res. They open on the 10th.
I did not know that.

northwoodshunter
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Re: Taking my pup to North Dakota

Post by northwoodshunter » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:38 pm

he busted the 2 he pointed, we dont go there for a long time, 3 days. i have grouse behind my house im gonna get him on. the owner of his mom said that even though busted, (one he was just relocating to catch wind) that he did pretty good and so did a guy that i hunt with out there that has a setter and EP.
Thanks for all the advice.

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