Iditarod Dog Breeds

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Garrison
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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Garrison » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:12 am

Spy Car wrote:CCG has no red meat (at all), and no chicken "meat" (save what's in chicken-by-product meal). The only organ is chicken liver, so no kidney, thymus, pancreas, spleen, etc, from beef, lamb, bison, elk, or other red meat source.

Fish is good, but this is not a formula with diverse sources of animal proteins.

Way more carbohydrates than a gun dog needs (as they require none).

You'd do beter on a balanced raw diet Steve :wink:

Bill
Better than what, having healthy dogs and winning top races? How much bird dogging and mushing goes on in LA, must be frustrating imagining how good your theory could work, but never getting to try it? Give it a rest, we all know your thoughts on dog food.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by AlPastor » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:49 am

Spy Car wrote:
SCT wrote:Chicken bi-product meal, and fish meal I think would be considered meat, but I'll give you that it doesn't sound ideal. My dogs love the sardines and I'm trying to feed them one or two every day. Except I went to WY to run them for 3 days and didn't bother to take the fish along.
Chicken by-product meal and fish meal are potentially valuable ingredients in a formula, but this one has no chicken, no chicken meal, and no source of red meat (none). The oly organ is liver. Liver is vital, but they only include chicken liver, and there are not other organs.

For I don't se this formula as a holy grail to persuit.

Glad they ared oing well on the fish splementation.

Bill
You're missing the point of this food and the "mushing" foods. The target audience, for which these foods were designed, uses toppers. What they want in a kibble is caloric density, fiber, vitamins, and some easily digestible carbohydrates. If I recall correctly, this stuff is almost 700 calories a cup. It has a good amount of protein with something silly like ~60 grams per cup. It uses both beet pulp and psyllium for fiber.

What I don't like about the food is the uses of ethyoxqyin as a preservative for the fish oil and reliance upon flaxseed oil for efas.

However, you're correct. I wouldn't feed it as a standalone.

Anyway, if I remember correctly, we owe it's makers a debt of gratitude. He thought out of the box and created a specialist performance kibble. Until CCG came out in the 90s, these guys used to feed Purina.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Spy Car » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:46 pm

AlPastor wrote:
Spy Car wrote:
SCT wrote:Chicken bi-product meal, and fish meal I think would be considered meat, but I'll give you that it doesn't sound ideal. My dogs love the sardines and I'm trying to feed them one or two every day. Except I went to WY to run them for 3 days and didn't bother to take the fish along.
Chicken by-product meal and fish meal are potentially valuable ingredients in a formula, but this one has no chicken, no chicken meal, and no source of red meat (none). The oly organ is liver. Liver is vital, but they only include chicken liver, and there are not other organs.

For I don't se this formula as a holy grail to persuit.

Glad they ared oing well on the fish splementation.

Bill
You're missing the point of this food and the "mushing" foods. The target audience, for which these foods were designed, uses toppers. What they want in a kibble is caloric density, fiber, vitamins, and some easily digestible carbohydrates. If I recall correctly, this stuff is almost 700 calories a cup. It has a good amount of protein with something silly like ~60 grams per cup. It uses both beet pulp and psyllium for fiber.

What I don't like about the food is the uses of ethyoxqyin as a preservative for the fish oil and reliance upon flaxseed oil for efas.

However, you're correct. I wouldn't feed it as a standalone.

Anyway, if I remember correctly, we owe it's makers a debt of gratitude. He thought out of the box and created a specialist performance kibble. Until CCG came out in the 90s, these guys used to feed Purina.
So the mushers are supplimenting this base with the red meat, organs, bones, etc that is lacking in the formula?

That makes more sense. Out of the bag this is not a sufficient stand alone. I'm with you on that.

Bill

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:39 pm

SCT wrote:Chicken bi-product meal, and fish meal I think would be considered meat, but I'll give you that it doesn't sound ideal. My dogs love the sardines and I'm trying to feed them one or two every day. Except I went to WY to run them for 3 days and didn't bother to take the fish along.
With out a doubt Chicken By-Product Meal is the single best ingredient you can find for dogs when you see what it includes and what it does for a dog food. There are others that are good but just not quite as complete.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by AlPastor » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:47 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
SCT wrote:Chicken bi-product meal, and fish meal I think would be considered meat, but I'll give you that it doesn't sound ideal. My dogs love the sardines and I'm trying to feed them one or two every day. Except I went to WY to run them for 3 days and didn't bother to take the fish along.
With out a doubt Chicken By-Product Meal is the single best ingredient you can find for dogs when you see what it includes and what it does for a dog food. There are others that are good but just not quite as complete.

When you make emphatic blankets statements, like the above, you lose credibility especially when it comes to meals where quality varies drastically based upon manufacturer.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by AlPastor » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:01 pm

Garrison wrote: Better than what, having healthy dogs and winning top races? How much bird dogging and mushing goes on in LA, must be frustrating imagining how good your theory could work, but never getting to try it? Give it a rest, we all know your thoughts on dog food.
I don't know any sled dog kennels that exclusively feed raw but what they're feeding much more resembles what Bill feeds than the vast majority of folks on this board.

I mean they top with raw fish, beef, poultry, pork, and any other raw meat, organs, and even skins that they can get for a reasonable price.

Even fun dog is supplementing with a processed protein/fat supplement that has pork, beef, eggs, organs, etc. I'm guessing that he doesn't have a huge kennel, or has a sponsorship, because his supplement isn't cheap.

Funny enough, one of the country's best gsp trainer/handlers lived in LA for most of his life. It was only until he became an exclusive that he moved out to train on Killiam properties.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Spy Car » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:33 pm

AlPastor wrote:
Garrison wrote: Better than what, having healthy dogs and winning top races? How much bird dogging and mushing goes on in LA, must be frustrating imagining how good your theory could work, but never getting to try it? Give it a rest, we all know your thoughts on dog food.
I don't know any sled dog kennels that exclusively feed raw but what they're feeding much more resembles what Bill feeds than the vast majority of folks on this board.

I mean they top with raw fish, beef, poultry, pork, and any other raw meat, organs, and even skins that they can get for a reasonable price.

Even fun dog is supplementing with a processed protein/fat supplement that has pork, beef, eggs, organs, etc. I'm guessing that he doesn't have a huge kennel, or has a sponsorship, because his supplement isn't cheap.

Funny enough, one of the country's best gsp trainer/handlers lived in LA for most of his life. It was only until he became an exclusive that he moved out to train on Killiam properties.
Yeah, I mean, did those throwing brick-bats fail to notice that the accomplished musher, Fun Dog, supplements the CCG (that I mentioned was lacking in "meat," organs, and diversified proteins) with either meat or a supplement of meat, organs, and diversified proteins? But I'm the one who has it wrong :roll:

Bill

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:03 pm

AlPastor wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
SCT wrote:Chicken bi-product meal, and fish meal I think would be considered meat, but I'll give you that it doesn't sound ideal. My dogs love the sardines and I'm trying to feed them one or two every day. Except I went to WY to run them for 3 days and didn't bother to take the fish along.
With out a doubt Chicken By-Product Meal is the single best ingredient you can find for dogs when you see what it includes and what it does for a dog food. There are others that are good but just not quite as complete.

When you make emphatic blankets statements, like the above, you lose credibility especially when it comes to meals where quality varies drastically based upon manufacturer.
Al, Chicken By-Product Meal has the same requirements as any other ingredient and is tested to insure that it conforms to the guaranteed label requirements. Everyone gets hung up on ther term "by-product" All that says is the product left after whatever you are taking out. Just a simple way of stating it is a soybean oil plant crushes beans and takes the oil and leaves the soybean meal as the by-product while a soybean meal plant has the oil as there by-product. By-products have just as stringent rules as to what it contains as any other ingredient.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Neil » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:01 pm




Anyway, if I remember correctly, we owe it's makers a debt of gratitude. He thought out of the box and created a specialist performance kibble. Until CCG came out in the 90s, these guys used to feed Purina.
AlPastor
You do not recall correctly, and should be cause to question everything you post. Facts matter even more than words. I have met and talked with a number of the Iditarod winners. As late as the 2000's about half were feeding PPP, the other half were split among Iams/Eukanuba, Dr. Tim's, and local products.

The top GSP trainer, also from LA, was Ed Husser, he half qualified a GSP for the Ames NC by taking first in a pointer All-Age qualifying trial. He later convinced the owner to wisely switch to pointers and won it with Brush Country Spectre.

As to the rest of this food continuing debate, ditto. Until you win something it is all theory.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Neil » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:10 pm

Oh, I was there when one of the milti-winning mushers met Miller's True Spirit, after running his hands over his chiseled body, he said, "Crap, that dog is a he-man. That is some dog". 75 pounds of quivering muscle and gristle will elicit that response.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Spy Car » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:45 pm

Neil wrote:



Anyway, if I remember correctly, we owe it's makers a debt of gratitude. He thought out of the box and created a specialist performance kibble. Until CCG came out in the 90s, these guys used to feed Purina.
AlPastor
You do not recall correctly, and should be cause to question everything you post. Facts matter even more than words. I have met and talked with a number of the Iditarod winners. As late as the 2000's about half were feeding PPP, the other half were split among Iams/Eukanuba, Dr. Tim's, and local products.

The top GSP trainer, also from LA, was Ed Husser, he half qualified a GSP for the Ames NC by taking first in a pointer All-Age qualifying trial. He later convinced the owner to wisely switch to pointers and won it with Brush Country Spectre.

As to the rest of this food continuing debate, ditto. Until you win something it is all theory.

But haven't the mushers moved on to higher quality, higher protein and higher fat formulations Neil?

So even by your standards the "theory" has been proven in practice. It is the gun dog folks who remain the laggards (with a couple exceptions) on the canine nutrition front.

Bill

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by shags » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:53 pm

Spycar,
They are doing what works and they know it works by their success. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Now when you win all-age trials and wind up on the steps of the Big House, your way will have credibilty and folks will take notice and most likely follow your lead. Until then, talk is just talk and opinions are just opinions.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Spy Car » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:10 pm

shags wrote:Spycar,
They are doing what works and they know it works by their success. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Now when you win all-age trials and wind up on the steps of the Big House, your way will have credibilty and folks will take notice and most likely follow your lead. Until then, talk is just talk and opinions are just opinions.
You do see what the mushers are feeding is a lot closer to what I'm feeding than it is to Pro Plan?

Not running dogs on cereal is proven. You can pay attention, or be late to the party.

Bill

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:15 pm

Spy Car wrote:
Neil wrote:



Anyway, if I remember correctly, we owe it's makers a debt of gratitude. He thought out of the box and created a specialist performance kibble. Until CCG came out in the 90s, these guys used to feed Purina.
AlPastor
You do not recall correctly, and should be cause to question everything you post. Facts matter even more than words. I have met and talked with a number of the Iditarod winners. As late as the 2000's about half were feeding PPP, the other half were split among Iams/Eukanuba, Dr. Tim's, and local products.

The top GSP trainer, also from LA, was Ed Husser, he half qualified a GSP for the Ames NC by taking first in a pointer All-Age qualifying trial. He later convinced the owner to wisely switch to pointers and won it with Brush Country Spectre.

As to the rest of this food continuing debate, ditto. Until you win something it is all theory.

But haven't the mushers moved on to higher quality, higher protein and higher fat formulations Neil?

So even by your standards the "theory" has been proven in practice. It is the gun dog folks who remain the laggards (with a couple exceptions) on the canine nutrition front.

Bill
Higher fat and protein makes a lot of sence for a dog burning the calories that those dogs need. If we went to that same feed we would have to feed less than we do now since our dogs are getting all they need. Higher percentages do not automatically mean the dogs are getting more it just means they can eat less and get what they need. With the sled dogs that is a real help since it is hard to get enough calories into their diet since they are burning 2 to 4 times what our hunting dogs do. And that also helps produce less waste and that is a major concern for the musher too.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Spy Car » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:25 pm

ezzy333 wrote: Higher fat and protein makes a lot of sence for a dog burning the calories that those dogs need. If we went to that same feed we would have to feed less than we do now since our dogs are getting all they need. Higher percentages do not automatically mean the dogs are getting more it just means they can eat less and get what they need. With the sled dogs that is a real help since it is hard to get enough calories into their diet since they are burning 2 to 4 times what our hunting dogs do. And that also helps produce less waste and that is a major concern for the musher too.
Yes, our dogs would not need the heavy carbohydrate loads many get now if they were eating more animal protein and fat. Muscle repair improves with a high protein diet (and injury is common otherwise) and dogs that burn fat as a fuel source are proven to have long term stamina due to the way canines metabolize fats. Burning carbs does not provide the steady energy that fat burning does.

Producing less waste is a big positive for gun dogs too.

Bill

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Garrison » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:50 pm

Bill, I am starting to think you may burn more calories arguing about dog food then your dog does consuming it. Another interesting thread hijacked and probably locked in short order because of your personal agenda and the evidence that doesn't fit it. You argue about top mushers, then one chimes in and is told his feeding program is sub standard by someone who has little to no experience mushing, then we take another few laps around mailing addresses of dog trainers who live in a truck on the road 80% of the year and are back on to what top mushers feed. How many miles did your gun dog log in the dog park today?

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by AlPastor » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:09 pm

Garrison wrote:Bill, I am starting to think you may burn more calories arguing about dog food then your dog does consuming it. Another interesting thread hijacked and probably locked in short order because of your personal agenda and the evidence that doesn't fit it. You argue about top mushers, then one chimes in and is told his feeding program is sub standard by someone who has little to no experience mushing, then we take another few laps around mailing addresses of dog trainers who live in a truck on the road 80% of the year and are back on to what top mushers feed. How many miles did your gun dog log in the dog park today?
When Bill says that CCG doesn't look like a good standalone feed, using a guy who doesn't use it as a standalone feed to discredit his statement doesn't work.

The fact that fun dog supplements it, like just about all mushers do with meat or with processed supplements (like impact or genesis), supports Bill's contention.

It doesn't mean that fun dog has a substandard feeding formula. It just means that he's sophisticated enough to know that kibble is a just a building block in creating winning nutrition.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Garrison » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:13 pm

ALPastor, should of addressed my last post to you as well. Sorry I left you out.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Spy Car » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:44 pm

Garrison wrote:Bill, I am starting to think you may burn more calories arguing about dog food then your dog does consuming it. Another interesting thread hijacked and probably locked in short order because of your personal agenda and the evidence that doesn't fit it. You argue about top mushers, then one chimes in and is told his feeding program is sub standard by someone who has little to no experience mushing, then we take another few laps around mailing addresses of dog trainers who live in a truck on the road 80% of the year and are back on to what top mushers feed. How many miles did your gun dog log in the dog park today?
Thanks for asking Garrison. I got in a nice hike this morning up mountain trails. I did 10 miles at a brisk pace. God knows how many miles the Vizsla did. He takes the "hard way" over hills at every opportunity, sprints to the top and comes back down then is out again. Runs non-stop. Then we hit home so I could grab a wrap (unusually brisk today) and we did head to our great unofficial offleash where we met up with pals and he ran and played for almost two more hours.

That was our day.

You?

Bill

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Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Luminary Setters » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:11 pm

If you think taking your dog on a ten mile walk gets your dog into top shape, you don't have a clue of what a conditioned dog is capable of doing..., not a clue.

The reason the top field trial players feed PPP is that it is cost effective and it delivers their required nutritional needs. I fed six dogs Caribou Creek for a year, and has been by far the best kibble I have ever feed. It too would be cost effective if it wasn't for the shipping costs.

Despite all of the rhetoric on this , and unless your are an FDSB AA pro trialer or a musher, I doubt anyone posting would see any difference in their dogs performance by switching to Purina Dog Chow. That includes the raw feeders.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:16 pm

Spy Car wrote:
ezzy333 wrote: Higher fat and protein makes a lot of sence for a dog burning the calories that those dogs need. If we went to that same feed we would have to feed less than we do now since our dogs are getting all they need. Higher percentages do not automatically mean the dogs are getting more it just means they can eat less and get what they need. With the sled dogs that is a real help since it is hard to get enough calories into their diet since they are burning 2 to 4 times what our hunting dogs do. And that also helps produce less waste and that is a major concern for the musher too.
Yes, our dogs would not need the heavy carbohydrate loads many get now if they were eating more animal protein and fat. Muscle repair improves with a high protein diet (and injury is common otherwise) and dogs that burn fat as a fuel source are proven to have long term stamina due to the way canines metabolize fats. Burning carbs does not provide the steady energy that fat burning does.

Producing less waste is a big positive for gun dogs too.

Bill
Not true, it is looked at as advantage for the people who have to clean up.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Spy Car » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:18 pm

Luminary Setters wrote:If you think taking your dog on a ten mile walk gets your dog into top shape, you don't have a clue of what a conditioned dog is capable of doing..., not a clue.

The reason the top field trial players feed PPP is that it is cost effective and it delivers their required nutritional needs. I fed six dogs Caribou Creek for a year, and has been by far the best kibble I have ever feed. It too would be cost effective if it wasn't for the shipping costs.

Despite all of the rhetoric on this , and unless your are an FDSB AA pro trialer or a musher, I doubt anyone posting would see any difference in their dogs performance by switching to Purina Dog Chow. That includes the raw feeders.
*I* went 10 miles, not the dog. He did manny (many) times that up and down hills in the local mountains. Just to be clear. My dog is quite well conditioned. You really don't know what your talking about.

Bill

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Neil » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:27 pm

I roaded 6 of them from my K-Mule for an hour and ten minutes, we covered just over 9 miles, alternating among different gaits; from a slow hard pull up to a full lope, and back. Then a cool down in the play area. Followed by some rest, then some yard work, and some light free running.

And then some PPP with 2 tablespoons of used canola oil.

I suspect we have different understanding of top condition.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Fun dog » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:28 pm

One thing I'll say for the mushing community. When we get together we talk. We talk about races and dog care and we talk about food and of course poop. The food part of the discussion is never heated. I know of no musher that feeds a raw diet, but if they did, the more power to them. If they started winning we might take notice. George Atla, a famous Athabascan sprint musher once said that if he gave a cigarette to his dog, by the next week all the teams would be smoking. Winning carries weight. Another famous sprint musher, Doc Lombard, one of the few to beat George, introduced the novel concept of giving water to the dogs before and after the run. Before that the dogs might be offered a shovel full of snow. Doc and George had one thing in common. They were both champions. Because of that people listened. Sleddog care and feeding has come a long way since those two were burning up the track. Back then you just tossed the dog a salmon and called it good. Dog food has also come a long way. Many dog food companies test out their food on the sleddogs. The musher will then get with the creator of the food and discuss what is good about it and what needs improvement. Charlie Champaign came up with a meat mix that was excellent, but even that was meant to be fed with the kibble of your choice.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Spy Car » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:42 pm

[quote="Neil"[
I suspect we have different understanding of top condition.[/quote]

My dog probably did 50 mile today going up and down steep mountain trails at speed for 3.5 hours. Then had another hour and a half running. And this was a "conditioning" day. Just an outing. And he was still raring to go.

Please don't joint the know-nothings Neil, it is beneath you.

Bill

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Grange » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:50 pm

Spy Car wrote: My dog probably did 50 mile today going up and down steep mountain trails at speed for 3.5 hours. Then had another hour and a half running. And this was a "conditioning" day. Just an outing. And he was still raring to go.

Please don't joint the know-nothings Neil, it is beneath you.

Bill
Put an Astro on your dog and prove it.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by shags » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:51 pm

Spy Car wrote:[quote="Neil"[
I suspect we have different understanding of top condition.
My dog probably did 50 mile today going up and down steep mountain trails at speed for 3.5 hours. Then had another hour and a half running. And this was a "conditioning" day. Just an outing. And he was still raring to go.

Please don't joint the know-nothings Neil, it is beneath you.

Bill[/quote]

I'd sure like to see a screenshot of the Garmin on that one LOL.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Spy Car » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:02 pm

shags wrote:
I'd sure like to see a screenshot of the Garmin on that one LOL.
Me too. It would shut some of you right up.

Aye, aye, aye.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by AlPastor » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:05 pm

Al, Chicken By-Product Meal has the same requirements as any other ingredient and is tested to insure that it conforms to the guaranteed label requirements. Everyone gets hung up on ther term "by-product" All that says is the product left after whatever you are taking out. Just a simple way of stating it is a soybean oil plant crushes beans and takes the oil and leaves the soybean meal as the by-product while a soybean meal plant has the oil as there by-product. By-products have just as stringent rules as to what it contains as any other ingredient.
I didn't think what I wrote was disparaging byproduct meal nor did I believe it to be to complex to follow.

The quality of the different animal meals is dependent upon the manufacturer of the meal.

Some chicken meals are excellent and better than most chicken byproduct meals. Some chicken byproduct meals are excellent and better than most chicken meals.

So to clarify again, the quality of meals and byproduct meals is dependent on who is making it and, depending on who is making it, one can be better than the other.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:15 pm

shags wrote:
Spy Car wrote:[quote="Neil"[
I suspect we have different understanding of top condition.
My dog probably did 50 mile today going up and down steep mountain trails at speed for 3.5 hours. Then had another hour and a half running. And this was a "conditioning" day. Just an outing. And he was still raring to go.

Please don't joint the know-nothings Neil, it is beneath you.

Bill
I'd sure like to see a screenshot of the Garmin on that one LOL.[/quote]

You won't see it on a Garmin as there is no way the dog run that far in that amount of time up and down mountains though I am sure it seems that much.. But the big difference is the resistant training that you have to do to produce the muscle mass and stamina. That is something that most hunters forget about but it is the difference in what a dog can do in an hour against what is required for the three hour trials. It's that same resistance that causes the high calorie needs of the sled dogs.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by slistoe » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:17 pm

Spy Car wrote:
shags wrote:
I'd sure like to see a screenshot of the Garmin on that one LOL.
Me too. It would shut some of you right up.

Aye, aye, aye.

Bill
You are delusional.

AlPastor
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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by AlPastor » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:19 pm

Garrison wrote:ALPastor, should of addressed my last post to you as well. Sorry I left you out.
I just have to laugh that a guy from Temecula is trying to take a swipe at Los Angeles. You're like 60 miles away. It isn't the country.

For the record, I have two separate fireroads within 50 yards of our barn and either I or our stable hand roads the dogs every day. Uphill. For an hour. Top speed them on the flat at the topark of the ridge. And then easy down the hill.

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ezzy333
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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:21 pm

Fun dog wrote:One thing I'll say for the mushing community. When we get together we talk. We talk about races and dog care and we talk about food and of course poop. The food part of the discussion is never heated. I know of no musher that feeds a raw diet, but if they did, the more power to them. If they started winning we might take notice. George Atla, a famous Athabascan sprint musher once said that if he gave a cigarette to his dog, by the next week all the teams would be smoking. Winning carries weight. Another famous sprint musher, Doc Lombard, one of the few to beat George, introduced the novel concept of giving water to the dogs before and after the run. Before that the dogs might be offered a shovel full of snow. Doc and George had one thing in common. They were both champions. Because of that people listened. Sleddog care and feeding has come a long way since those two were burning up the track. Back then you just tossed the dog a salmon and called it good. Dog food has also come a long way. Many dog food companies test out their food on the sleddogs. The musher will then get with the creator of the food and discuss what is good about it and what needs improvement. Charlie Champaign came up with a meat mix that was excellent, but even that was meant to be fed with the kibble of your choice.
We always followed that same procedure of first testing on the research farm but then supplying a few of our better patrons with the feed and getting feedback from them before we put the product on the market. It was many times the better part of a year before we would get a new product to the market.

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Luminary Setters
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Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Luminary Setters » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:29 pm

Bill I read you post and understood it was you that went ten miles, and doubt your is in better shape than most other dogs. However, if you think whatever your dog does on a ten mile stroll maximizes its physical potential, you need to spend more time on Google. Maybe even find a facility that can measure your dogs VO2 levels.

Neil, I'm thinking more like an hour and a half to two hours closer to twenty miles an hour for a conditioned dog, so I do know a just little about conditioning.

Fun dog is right. The sled dog world will discuss nutrition, conditioning, and any other aspect of their sport in a civilized manner. Discussions on this forum, on the other hand, are being routinely drug into the gutter by a few egotistical loudmouths.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Neil » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:35 pm

Luminary Setters wrote:Bill I read you post and understood it was you that went ten miles, and doubt your is in better shape than most other dogs. However, if you think whatever your dog does on a ten mile stroll maximizes its physical potential, you need to spend more time on Google. Maybe even find a facility that can measure your dogs VO2 levels.

Neil, I'm thinking more like an hour and a half to two hours closer to twenty miles an hour for a conditioned dog, so I do know a just little about conditioning.

Fun dog is right. The sled dog world will discuss nutrition, conditioning, and any other aspect of their sport in a civilized manner. Discussions on this forum, on the other hand, are being routinely drug into the gutter by a few egotistical loudmouths.
I am sure you know a lot about conditioning. I have Brittanys, 75 minutes 10 -12 miles is the best we can do. I would have to move to pointer/setters to reach your numbers. Or maybe just better dogs in my breed.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Neil » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:38 pm

AlPastor wrote:
Garrison wrote:ALPastor, should of addressed my last post to you as well. Sorry I left you out.
I just have to laugh that a guy from Temecula is trying to take a swipe at Los Angeles. You're like 60 miles away. It isn't the country.

For the record, I have two separate fireroads within 50 yards of our barn and either I or our stable hand roads the dogs every day. Uphill. For an hour. Top speed them on the flat at the topark of the ridge. And then easy down the hill.
It was sure country when my uncle moved there in 1968, it was Rancho California then.

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SCT
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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by SCT » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:17 pm

My pointers will average between 8 and 14 miles an hour on flat ground depending on how many points they get, according to my Astro. On steep hills it drops significantly. I figure they typically cover about 3 times the distance I do, sometimes more.

Bill, you could actually prove how great the raw diet is by working your dog with a Garmin Astro in an area where you won't lose the signal for an hour and post the data here.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Garrison » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:41 pm

AlPastor wrote:
Garrison wrote:ALPastor, should of addressed my last post to you as well. Sorry I left you out.
I just have to laugh that a guy from Temecula is trying to take a swipe at Los Angeles. You're like 60 miles away. It isn't the country.

For the record, I have two separate fireroads within 50 yards of our barn and either I or our stable hand roads the dogs every day. Uphill. For an hour. Top speed them on the flat at the topark of the ridge. And then easy down the hill.

Neil its not what it used to be when my family moved out here in the late 70's. AlPastor I have a pigeon loft in my backyard and a 100 acre bird field that my back gate opens up to, its 3 miles on dirt roads from my front door to a 1500 acre field where I work my dog everyday after work, not ideal but it works for us. Just glad I don't live where you have to lock your doors and protect freeway signs with barbwire.

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Fun dog » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:19 am

My GSP, Chip, in lead next to an Alaskan Husky, Lauri. Though I hate to admit it, at this time they were fed Nutra Nuggets 30/20. Good thing they also got Champaign Race diet as well.
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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by DennisCanfield » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:25 pm

Neil wrote:
The “marathon” runners—including dogs running in the Iditarod—have some border collie, hound, or pointer mixed in, says Stuart Nelson, Jr., head veterinarian for the Iditarod.
When will it be in and where?

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Re: Iditarod Dog Breeds

Post by Neil » Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:03 am

Mid-February, Alaska.

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