Quail issues, bumping

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rocksteady1
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Quail issues, bumping

Post by rocksteady1 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:49 pm

So we went quail hunting yesterday. I live in California so that means walking thru large chaparral bushes. We busted three coveys but not really off points. My dog would go up to a bush a start trying to work his way into the bush flushing the quail at too far a distance for me to shoot. This happened the first time we came upon the coveys. After that we hunted singles and he would search the bushes and force flushes but still little to no pointing. I feel that he should give me a better opportunity and more indication of birds.

For the record this is an 20 month old shorthair that does wonders on pheasant. Rock solid points normally not pressuring the bird.


Am I hoping for too much too soon? I know quail don't have a lot of scent and he has little experience in them but this is the fourth or fifth time he has hunted them. Honestly we have had little success until yesterday. We harvested one and saw more than we ever had previously. I feel that I would have been more successful had he not been so hard charging into the bushes and had sat back and pointed.

Thoughts?

Neil
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Re: Quail issues, bumping

Post by Neil » Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:15 pm

He pointed pheasants without ever being trained on quail or pigeons?

All I have worked had to be trained, some more, some less. They didn't come out of the box ready to go. We need details on what you have done so far.

You need to find a book or video, or better a training group.

Soarer31
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Re: Quail issues, bumping

Post by Soarer31 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:48 pm

Quote/:
""For the record this is an 20 month old shorthair that does wonders on pheasant. Rock solid points normally not pressuring the bird.""

IMO i would give that dog a lot more exposure on quail before I start messing around with a CC,
let hem work it out, you said his rock solid on pheasant !

rocksteady1
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Re: Quail issues, bumping

Post by rocksteady1 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:07 pm

Neil wrote:He pointed pheasants without ever being trained on quail or pigeons?

All I have worked had to be trained, some more, some less. They didn't come out of the box ready to go. We need details on what you have done so far.

You need to find a book or video, or better a training group.
He has worked with a trainer. He went for a couple months a worked exclusively on chukar and pigeons. He has not been force fetched. Like is said he does well with phez. I feel that he doesn't hit the scent that hard with quail and night not be totally sure what it is yet. He does really well on preserves with lots of scent everywhere he is still able to find birds dead or otherwise. I'm just not sure how best to proceed but I'd like him to get better at pointing and holding quail.

Neil
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Re: Quail issues, bumping

Post by Neil » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:22 pm

You need to consult with the trainer.

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mtlhdr
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Re: Quail issues, bumping

Post by mtlhdr » Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:34 am

I hunt the same birds in the same habitat and I can tell you that they are tough. My dog too struggled with with big coveys fluttering and running around in dense thickets, and still does occasionally after a couple seasons under his belt. Night and day difference between these wild quail and wild pheasants and chukar. Don't really know why. Give him time and as much exposure as possible. Once the season is over work with the trainer to start steady him up to wing. Here's the results of our last two hunts. If I was better and the dog was a little better on these days there'd have been a few more birds in the bag.
Image
Image

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oldbeek
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Re: Quail issues, bumping

Post by oldbeek » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:56 pm

My 26 month old Britt had the same problem this week. She has never been in this many quail. We had low dense cover. At one point she was pointing out in front of her, she lowered her head like she was pointing her front feet and 3 quail came out under her belly. Just way to much confusion for a young dog. Caif. quail will stick like a rock if you are walking by. Stop moving for 30 seconds and out they come. Dog can be scenting quail on a breeze, stop to point and be standing just upwind of other birds and up they come.

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DonF
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Re: Quail issues, bumping

Post by DonF » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:43 am

I'm not so sure the dag that can handle big covies of quail was ever born. I've never had one. They'll go on point but the big covies are spread out so bad the dog can't hold them all. Then when one bird flush's, they all flush. Break them up and hunt the singles!

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oldbeek
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Re: Quail issues, bumping

Post by oldbeek » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:39 pm

The dang birds flush and stay together. They land in a big group and regroup in a bunch. Hunted a covey once that would stay right next to a state highway. Would not move out into the open desert no matter what you did.

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Sharon
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Re: Quail issues, bumping

Post by Sharon » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:56 pm

DonF wrote:I'm not so sure the dag that can handle big covies of quail was ever born. I've never had one. They'll go on point but the big covies are spread out so bad the dog can't hold them all. Then when one bird flush's, they all flush. Break them up and hunt the singles!

Wow . Wish we had that problem up here. (Glad to see you posting Don.)

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Chukar12
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Re: Quail issues, bumping

Post by Chukar12 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:18 pm

I believe you are expecting too much. Wild quail behave nothing like bird club pheasants; and a 20 month old shorthair is not yet reliable without regard for who is handling it. Every time the dog encounters a new scenario such as location; but especially location and type of game bird it may require a regression in training steps. In other words, you must go back to training and stop focusing on the hunt itself. Forgive me for putting words in his mouth but I believe this is why Neil suggests the trainer get involved. He or she will likely explain that the young dog has the concept in a very controlled environment but is not yet ready to handle the pressure of the difference these particular birds are providing. Your best bet is to enjoy training as much as you do shooting with forethought the the time spent with patience today will pay big dividends in the future.

On the flip side, the dog will probably figure it out on its own IN TIME with maturity and experience...however, it will take much longer than it will under guidance, it is just that most find new and innovative forms of vocabulary waiting for the dog to figure it out on their own.

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