Wife is having an issue, need some input.

[Bacon1676]

I'm gonna start by saying this is my first hunting dog and have never had this experience. I'm gonna be sending My pup offto a trainer in a few months to get some formal training, but my wife is worried about his mental stability going from a house to a kennel type environment. Unlike most puppies his age he gets a lot of exercise, I would say about 5 hours a day of running and playing on a horse farm with other dogs, plus dog park encounters 3 times a week for a couple hours and is never confined to a kennel except at night in the house. I will also state he is a little spoiled, I know, complete shock I am sure. So I'm wondering how house dogs handle transitioning to a kennel life for a month? He is 5 months right now, but won't go to a trainer until 7 or 8 months.

I would think it would be something like summer camp for kids. At first it is strange and confusing but once they get into the swing of things they adapt.

[cjhills]

every dog I bring into my kennel buys into my program in a couple days and is glad to be here. especially if they have had a lot of interaction with other dogs. Should not be a problem at all. trainers know how to deal with dogs and dogs are very good at assessing the situation and doing what is necessary to get along..................Cj

[mnaj_springer]

Never underestimate the adaptability of dogs and canines. Once competitors with humans, now they are the most successful canid on the planet through cooperation with humans.

[Neil]

Not even a little bit of a problem.

[Bacon1676]

Have you guys had issues with reintroduction back into the home? I.e. Going to the bathroom in the house? Which is a big issue with my wife and myself for that matter. Or any other issues? Trying to keep him from any male issues for as long as possible. Wife is just itching to snag his nuggets as soon as he starts any "problems." I've had several male dogs that were whole for a while and never had any issues. I always stated what was acceptable and what wasn't, no issues, of course never had to worry about in-heat females.

[shags]

Dogs don't have the same mental makeup or psychology as humans, they adjust to changes pretty smoothly.

You'll find the reverse situation to be fine, too. Your dog will adjust very quickly from kennel to home.

Seems to me way better to have a partner who's worried about the dog leaving, than to have one who can't wait to get the #?%&@ dog out of the house

[gonehuntin']

I'm confused by your post, in one spot you say you're sending him for a few months, in another for a month. So, which is it?

For a month you'd be wasting your money. For three months, you and your wife may suffer, he won't. He'll adopt to the trainer and like it as much as home. Another thing, once you get him back, no more running with farm dog's for exercise. Kennel or house or your training will be wasted. Dog Parks have every filthy disease know to dog's. I wouldn't go to one for anything.

[Bacon1676]

Dogs don't have the same mental makeup or psychology as humans, they adjust to changes pretty smoothly.

You'll find the reverse situation to be fine, too. Your dog will adjust very quickly from kennel to home.

Seems to me way better to have a partner who's worried about the dog leaving, than to have one who can't wait to get the #?%&@ dog out of the house

Oh you have no idea... She has bonded to him like she gave birth to him... Which makes my life much easier, but she wants him to treated like he is at home. She wants to meet and get to know the trainer and see the kennels, the whole nine yards. :roll: But I'm grateful she likes him cause it means I can get another.

Gonehuntin sorry about the confusion. I would think a month any more and my wife would probably kill me. Lol

[Bacon1676]

I'm confused by your post, in one spot you say you're sending him for a few months, in another for a month. So, which is it?

For a month you'd be wasting your money. For three months, you and your wife may suffer, he won't. He'll adopt to the trainer and like it as much as home. Another thing, once you get him back, no more running with farm dog's for exercise. Kennel or house or your training will be wasted. Dog Parks have every filthy disease know to dog's. I wouldn't go to one for anything.

May I ask why no running and playing with other dogs as exercise?

[shags]

Like with kids, you have to raise them up to be productive members of society. For a birddog, that means learning how to do his job properly. And for many, that means going off to Birddog U. Just like a dorm room isn't home, either is a kennel run. But dogs deal with it because the rest is so much fun for them. What college kid cares about changing his sheets every week and having his room smell like Febreze? Dogs don't care, either.

Your wife is going to feel really bad when you go to see your dog's progress, and he acts like you aren't even there...all his focus is on the trainer and the birds

[RayGubernat]

For a month you'd be wasting your money. For three months, you and your wife may suffer, he won't. He'll adopt to the trainer and like it as much as home. Another thing, once you get him back, no more running with farm dog's for exercise. Kennel or house or your training will be wasted. Dog Parks have every filthy disease know to dog's. I wouldn't go to one for anything.

Bacon -

It will take a couple of weeks for the trainer to figure out where the dog's head is at and what the dog needs. If the dog is only there for a month.....it will, at BEST, be a waste of time and money. At worst, if the trainer pushes too hard to get something done in that short a period of time, they could screw up the dog.

Not to speak for Gonehuntin' but I completely agree with him on not allowing the dog to roam free after training and I have NEVER taken any of my dogs to a dog park, and never will.

What you allow, you encourage. If you allow the dog to roam free and chase whatever it wishes... that is what you are teaching the dog to do.

If you ain't there, there is no reason for the dog to keep its training...so it won't. THEN when you want the dog to do what it was trained to do...it will not want to and when you try to enforce the training that you let lapse, it will, very often , be met with resistance by the dog and require more pressure to overcome than it required to train in the first place.

Think about this... if a dog never ever was allowed to chase... it does not really know that it CAN, so it may not even try, or if it does, it may not try very hard. On the other hand, If the dog has chased and chased and perhaps even caught a few things, it may never completely lose the desire to chase.

What you allow, you encourage.

RayG

[Bacon1676]

I agree with you guys about not letting him chase whatever he wishes and hasn't been allowed to. Guess I should have been more clear. My wife works on the horse farm that covers 150 acres and goes from barn to barn checking mares and what not so he runs beside the mule (kinda like road working a dog with a 4 wheeler) and plays with the dogs around the barn. So surely that couldn't make him lose his training? I will obviously bow down to you gentlemen with the knowledge and experience you have aquired through the years, guess I am in need of a little more convincing.

And the dog park isn't something I like either, but talk about a dog learning how to deal with different types of dogs. Pup 101 is socialization. Besides my wife goes with her dad who is 84 and takes his dog so I put up with stuff so she is happy because it makes him happy.

[Sharon]

Have you guys had issues with reintroduction back into the home? I.e. Going to the bathroom in the house? Which is a big issue with my wife and myself for that matter. Or any other issues? Trying to keep him from any male issues for as long as possible. Wife is just itching to snag his nuggets as soon as he starts any "problems." I've had several male dogs that were whole for a while and never had any issues. I always stated what was acceptable and what wasn't, no issues, of course never had to worry about in-heat females.

No problem as has been said well above.

"Have you guys had issues with reintroduction back into the home? I.e. Going to the bathroom in the house?" quote

Yes , but routines can be quickly established again.

"My wife is worried about his mental stability going from a house to a kennel type ." quote

Sure. I bet it's you and you don't want to admit it. LOL -- you know I'm just kiddin' with you.

[shags]

Have you guys had issues with reintroduction back into the home? I.e. Going to the bathroom in the house? Which is a big issue with my wife and myself for that matter. Or any other issues? Trying to keep him from any male issues for as long as possible. Wife is just itching to snag his nuggets as soon as he starts any "problems." I've had several male dogs that were whole for a while and never had any issues. I always stated what was acceptable and what wasn't, no issues, of course never had to worry about in-heat females.

Obnoxious male behavior is a training issue, not a surgical one. What's the next step if neutering doesn't magiically cure him of marking? Training, right? So why not just go straight to that?

[Neil]

Except to honor a point or retrieve, my dogs are taught to ignore all other dogs in all situations. I have never seen advantage to what you are calling socialization. My dogs do have playtime, with me. When hunting or trialing, they are expected to independently do their job.

I do not go to dog parks, not just germs as mentioned (which is major), but possible fight or breeding opportunities are avoided.

I also ask strangers to not pet them and we avoid the waiting room at the vet's.

Respectfully, I do not feel compelled to convince you of anything, it is your dog, do as you like - just trying to help. Running free with farm dogs and dog parks add risks with no reward for a hunting dog. Your wife would benefit from having a farm dog of her own.

[greg jacobs]

Maybe people here could give you some options on trainers and timimg. Usually the early stuff you can do yourself. Might be a better plan to do all you can now and send him north for the summer when the pup is old enough to really gain from it.
Second issue is neutering to young or at all. There are a lot of health reasons not to neuter especially young.

[gonehuntin']

I'd answer your question by Ray has and like usual, I agree with him completely.

[AlPastor]

Lol, my dogs are visually depressed when they come home from summer or winter camp.

Seriously, the first trip to the trainer, it takes about a day or two for them to start feeding properly again and a week or 2 to build some trust.

[Neil]

I don't know if I am not likeable or my dogs are not sensitive, but it is embarrassing to admit if my dogs miss me I can't tell it. Then maybe I am not intuitive.

They seem to be happy enough to see me; they wag their tails, and some even dance some. But no transition that I can detect.

I have heard some girls of questionable morals described as "Anybody's dog that will hunt with them". That is my dogs. You got a gun? They are ready to load up.

[Spy Car]

I'm with the wife (except on the neutering issue).

I like keeping a very strong bond with my dogs. As opposed to some others I think a dog can be a family dog, a farm dog, and a gun dog. And can enjoy dog parks.

It is generally novices that need the training the most, even more than dogs, so shipping one out rather than putting in the time oneself with the aid of books, local mentors, the NAVHDA, or similar isn't the best move IMO. Educate yourself with help from outside resources.

Keep the dog with you.

Bill

[Laidback1]

Your wife is going to feel really bad when you go to see your dog's progress, and he acts like you aren't even there...all his focus is on the trainer and the birds

Been there. My wife was really bummed when we went to check progress on our male and he acted like it was no big deal to see her. However, after the trainer shot the first bird in the field "her" dog retrieved it back right past the trainer and delivered it to her. She was in love again! Funny thing is on the subsequent couple of birds he retrieved right back to the trainer (and he wasn't "stimmed").

[Bacon1676]

Have you guys had issues with reintroduction back into the home? I.e. Going to the bathroom in the house? Which is a big issue with my wife and myself for that matter. Or any other issues? Trying to keep him from any male issues for as long as possible. Wife is just itching to snag his nuggets as soon as he starts any "problems." I've had several male dogs that were whole for a while and never had any issues. I always stated what was acceptable and what wasn't, no issues, of course never had to worry about in-heat females.

No problem as has been said well above.

"Have you guys had issues with reintroduction back into the home? I.e. Going to the bathroom in the house?" quote

Yes , but routines can be quickly established again.

"My wife is worried about his mental stability going from a house to a kennel type ." quote

Sure. I bet it's you and you don't want to admit it. LOL -- you know I'm just kiddin' with you.

You caught me. Lol

Except to honor a point or retrieve, my dogs are taught to ignore all other dogs in all situations. I have never seen advantage to what you are calling socialization. My dogs do have playtime, with me. When hunting or trialing, they are expected to independently do their job.

I do not go to dog parks, not just germs as mentioned (which is major), but possible fight or breeding opportunities are avoided.

I also ask strangers to not pet them and we avoid the waiting room at the vet's.

Respectfully, I do not feel compelled to convince you of anything, it is your dog, do as you like - just trying to help. Running free with farm dogs and dog parks add risks with no reward for a hunting dog. Your wife would benefit from having a farm dog of her own.

I understand what you are saying and please believe me that I take all advice I can get. But, may I ask you, and any one else for that matter, having a dog that is geared solely on hunting and playing with you translates to their mental stability when dealing with a strange dogs, new people, and foreign environments? I feel that when a dog sits in a kennel for the majority of their lives and is taken out to work, hunt, and a little bit of fun would lead to other social issues (confrontation with other dogs, aggretion with people, I'm not saying these will happen but your odds would go up I would think). I'm not a big time hunter, nor do I have enough time in my day to get a dog like I have the exercise he requires (or at least I feel he should have). Now if I made my livelihood off of guided hunts or trials or something like that this would be a mute point. I grew up in the horse world and understand the risks of play time and not allowing them to get away with anything. When you have horses selling for 6-7 figures and people are paying you a lot of money for their horses to win you do what is necessary. But when a dog can distinguish the difference between a chicken and a pheasant, should they also be able to differentiate between hunt time and play time? I prefious all this with saying this is my first hunting dog and I have a lot to learn. Please don't take my comments as being disrespectful, I am merely trying to engage and understand something I know vertually nothing about but have only an idea of.

Have you guys had issues with reintroduction back into the home? I.e. Going to the bathroom in the house? Which is a big issue with my wife and myself for that matter. Or any other issues? Trying to keep him from any male issues for as long as possible. Wife is just itching to snag his nuggets as soon as he starts any "problems." I've had several male dogs that were whole for a while and never had any issues. I always stated what was acceptable and what wasn't, no issues, of course never had to worry about in-heat females.

Obnoxious male behavior is a training issue, not a surgical one. What's the next step if neutering doesn't magiically cure him of marking? Training, right? So why not just go straight to that?

I agree with you completely. I've had couple whole dogs and have never had an issue once they knew their boundaries.

[RayGubernat]

Bacon -

I have always had pointers and they may be a little different than some of the pointing breeds, but not so much different than GSP's, I think.

My pointers are, and always have been outside kennel dogs. When I had only one dog, it played with the family in the back yard unless I took it hunting or training. When I had two dogs, or more, they chased each other around the yard, which was, at one time, quite small, but other than that, did not play with each other much. They waited for ME or a family member to do something with them.

The rest of the time, they were in the kennel. Pointers have a genuine "off" switch. I think GSP's do also...perhaps not to the same extent, but they do.

Only one of these dogs was ever mentally unstable, and they were, with a couple of exceptions, very loving and attentive dogs. The pones that were not loving and attentive were somewhat aloof. they would come over to get petted, but then would walk away and go lay down somewhere else in the yard. Pointers do that. The one dog that became mentally unstable, had issues with another male dog...his son actually... and I had to keep them separated or they would fight. I will say that most of them had limited "tolerance" for those outside their immediate world. By this I mean that they would pretty much ignore other dogs or folks if I were around, but might well be on the protective side if my wife or son were the one around.

Interestingly, the son dog that fought several bloody fights with his father went to live with my son at his house when he was about five. He now comes inside fairly often and is quite attentive to my son and daughter in law, as well as to my five year old grandson, but is incredibly attentive and tolerant to my two year old granddaughter as well as quite protective. He is another one of those who could not care much for the rest of the world, but for whom, his family IS his whole world. If one of us is sitting, he will come in and rub himself on your legs, like a cat and then wait to be petted and scratched.

Anyhow, the reason for my ramblings is this... my dogs listen to me and do what I say(well most of the time anyway, ). They have done just fine in a variety of circumstances, as long as they have a pack leader that they respect. However, bird dogs have foremost in their minds, the searching for and taking of game...any game...not just birds. I have seen a pack of pointers take down and kill a deer just fine thank you. They are apex predators and are bred to kill stuff. it is up to you to direct, control and channel that primal urge.

As long as all the members of your family are on the same page, and one does not allow the dog to do things that another does not allow, the dog should be fine.

RayG

[Neil]

My dogs are exercised regularly, they are in much better condition than if they ran free. They take turns spending the night in the house, and are let out in a 1 acre play area twice a day. My dogs are Boykins, Brittanys, and golders and are very loving and crave attention.

You can help me understand, if they are rarely around people or other dogs what is there for them to adjust to?

They are happy and enjoy life. They are not afraid of nor cower around other people or dogs, they politely ignore them. I just don't see a problem.

I am not trying to change what you or anyone else does.

[RoostersMom]

I have to weigh in on the trainer issue. If you want to get the dog moving forward, at least 2 months, and preferably 3 will be what it takes. That, at about a year old. I have sent 4 of my dogs now "away" to a trainer. These are my sleep-in-the-bed dogs. They have all done well at the kennel. You absolutely need to pick the right trainer though. It's well worth the money to get one that you can work with. This could well be a great relationship for the life of the dog - if you pick the right person.

I do clinics now with my dogs - a 4-day broke dog clinic or a 4-day starting young dog (gun acclimation, collar acclimation, bird intro). You can accomplish A LOT in that time frame and you are doing it yourself. The best part is that you get to watch others make a ton of mistakes that will (hopefully) prevent you from making the same ones in the future. The last one I went to had 3 couples working with their dogs and was overwhelmingly populated by family/hunting/trialing dogs, not kennel dogs.

On the dog park issue - I hate them myself - my dogs have been attacked multiple times at dog parks and I see no benefits of going there. If the other dogs are all healthy and well-vaccinated and well-socialized, then go for it. I don't think there is a way to be sure of that though.

[cjhills]

You can not protect your dogs from everything. Therefor I have no fear of walking in the front door of my vet's clinic and if they had dog parks where I live and I had the need to use them I would. My dogs are all vaccinated by my vet. Every dog I own visits the vet every two years. this is hundreds of vet visits in the last twenty five years, with never and issue. Taking a dog to a field trial without shots and exposure to other dog is like sending your kid to kindergarten without socialization and immunizations.....................Cj

[Neil]

You can not protect your dogs from everything. Therefor I have no fear of walking in the front door of my vet's clinic and if they had dog parks where I live and I had the need to use them I would. My dogs are all vaccinated by my vet. Every dog I own visits the vet every two years. this is hundreds of vet visits in the last twenty five years, with never and issue. Taking a dog to a field trial without shots and exposure to other dog is like sending your kid to kindergarten without socialization and immunizations.....................Cj

No, dogs are not little people, they will not grow up and have to make their own way in the world. Mine will have my protection for all their days, part of that care is to minimise risks. Immunizations are not 100% effective, but mine get them, they just go in the back door. I have never had a dog get in a fight hunting, training or trialing. I have had them ignore attacks and continue to hunt.

My way works, but I am not looking to convert anyone.

[CDN_Cocker]

If anything your dog will be more stable. Don't sweat it. Best money you can spend.

[Sharon]

Right on.

the off topic comment: I've been taking my JRTs to the dog park for 15 years. They normally run with the big girls, but deep snow is too much for them in the winter. Never had a serious incident- only fun for the dogs and me.