Pointing Lab Popularity

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metz
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Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by metz » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:18 pm

I was heavily into bird dogs about 10-15 years ago. Ended up getting a GSP after a bunch of research.

Haven't looked into it much since then.

Seems like they were gaining in popularity quickly around the time I bought my GSP.

I'm curious has the interest in the Pointing Labrador gone down some or never really taken off?

Just surprised there are only 3 APLA clubs and not really that many training videos and books just for the PL.

I've been out of the game a while, but was just surprised that there isn't more PL activity.

Thanks, Matt

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:03 pm

So the thing is Mat, why is training a pointing lab, if it is a true pointing lab different than training any other pointing dog? It isn't. Identical to training a GWP or GSP. I am so leery about the claims of pointing lab ability that the FIRST thing I'd work on is pointing instinct and if it has any. For "bleep" sure they'll retrieve, it's the point that is in question.

As Ezzy said, Lab's have pointed for as long as I've been involved with them; I got my first one in1968.

If I had to pick one book, it would be The Orange Book. It goes in to training for all breeds. Can't remember the real name of it, but everyone calls it the orange book.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:20 pm

I agree with Polmaise, they've went the wayside on the account of the new fad, Silver Labs and Laberdoodles.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:47 pm

nikegundog wrote:I agree with Polmaise, they've went the wayside on the account of the new fad, Silver Labs and Laberdoodles.
I haven't noticed them going by the way side. However, I think many people have quit talking about them after being ridiculed and having someone tell everyone they are crossbreds when we know they aren't. Color phases are a completely different subject and has nothing to do with the point or flush actions of them.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:08 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
nikegundog wrote:I agree with Polmaise, they've went the wayside on the account of the new fad, Silver Labs and Laberdoodles.
I haven't noticed them going by the way side. However, I think many people have quit talking about them after being ridiculed and having someone tell everyone they are crossbreds when we know they aren't. Color phases are a completely different subject and has nothing to do with the point or flush actions of them.
Well if could ignore the fact that "The Father of Pointing Labs" was also the same kennel that 99%+ of Silver Labs can be traced back to, who just happened to also breed Weims. :roll:

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by polmaise » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:16 pm

Popularity will follow fashion .Function doesn't always follow 'fit for' ? ..just being coy :wink:

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by metz » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:00 pm

I can't tell if you gents are pulling my leg or not.

I googled silver labs, they look cool but I can't imagine picking a long term companion based off of color.

Further, I'm not sure what a labroadoodle has to do with with stackin birds. Were the other breeds insufficient?

So pointing labs are/were a fad? Are they sure to go by the way side, what will happen with this style of lab?

Might be the perfect all around dog that or a GSP but the GSP looses out to cold water retrieves....

This time I decided to try a lab for that sole purpose.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:19 pm

nikegundog wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
nikegundog wrote:I agree with Polmaise, they've went the wayside on the account of the new fad, Silver Labs and Laberdoodles.
I haven't noticed them going by the way side. However, I think many people have quit talking about them after being ridiculed and having someone tell everyone they are crossbreds when we know they aren't. Color phases are a completely different subject and has nothing to do with the point or flush actions of them.
Well if could ignore the fact that "The Father of Pointing Labs" was also the same kennel that 99%+ of Silver Labs can be traced back to, who just happened to also breed Weims. :roll:
Labs pointed before that kennel was ever known. They've pointed forever. I can't comment on silver labs, but as far as pointing labs, I don't think they had anything to do with Kellogg Kennels. You see yellow, black, chocolate; they all point. And have since I've been involved in them. That was on the west coast and it's doubtful any Kellogg lab's made their way to Idaho.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:48 pm

gonehuntin' wrote: Labs pointed before that kennel was ever known. They've pointed forever. I can't comment on silver labs, but as far as pointing labs, I don't think they had anything to do with Kellogg Kennels. You see yellow, black, chocolate; they all point. And have since I've been involved in them. That was on the west coast and it's doubtful any Kellogg lab's made their way to Idaho.
Can you point me to a good book that talks about training one of these "pointing labs" that predate Kellogg? Or perhaps a couple article on pointing labs, or a kennel advertising them for sale, that predate Kellogg?

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:50 pm

nikegundog wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
nikegundog wrote:I agree with Polmaise, they've went the wayside on the account of the new fad, Silver Labs and Laberdoodles.
I haven't noticed them going by the way side. However, I think many people have quit talking about them after being ridiculed and having someone tell everyone they are crossbreds when we know they aren't. Color phases are a completely different subject and has nothing to do with the point or flush actions of them.
Well if could ignore the fact that "The Father of Pointing Labs" was also the same kennel that 99%+ of Silver Labs can be traced back to, who just happened to also breed Weims. :roll:
Not the father by any means but might have been one of the first that actually tried to promote them. However I hunted over quite a few in Iowa during the fifties and sixties that were the product of some local hunters whose black labs happen to point and many of their pups followed suite.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:59 pm

nikegundog wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote: Labs pointed before that kennel was ever known. They've pointed forever. I can't comment on silver labs, but as far as pointing labs, I don't think they had anything to do with Kellogg Kennels. You see yellow, black, chocolate; they all point. And have since I've been involved in them. That was on the west coast and it's doubtful any Kellogg lab's made their way to Idaho.
Can you point me to a good book that talks about training one of these "pointing labs" that predate Kellogg? Or perhaps a couple article on pointing labs, or a kennel advertising them for sale, that predate Kellogg?
I haven't heard of Kellogs kennels till some one said they started the silver lab fantasies which I think maybe mislabeling but that came decades after labs were pointing. I haven't figured out what the need for pointing lab books on training would be for since we do not teach dogs to point but rather teach them what we expect after the point and it is the same for all dogs. In all honesty it is more about what you like to see and little about the dogs.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:02 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
nikegundog wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote: Labs pointed before that kennel was ever known. They've pointed forever. I can't comment on silver labs, but as far as pointing labs, I don't think they had anything to do with Kellogg Kennels. You see yellow, black, chocolate; they all point. And have since I've been involved in them. That was on the west coast and it's doubtful any Kellogg lab's made their way to Idaho.
Can you point me to a good book that talks about training one of these "pointing labs" that predate Kellogg? Or perhaps a couple article on pointing labs, or a kennel advertising them for sale, that predate Kellogg?
I haven't heard of Kellogs kennels till some one said they started the silver lab fantasies which I think maybe mislabeling but that came decades after labs were pointing. I haven't figured out what the need for pointing lab books on training would be for since we do not teach dogs to point but rather teach them what we expect after the point and it is the same for all dogs. In all honesty it is more about what you like to see and little about the dogs.
+1. Kellogg's Kennels ONLY claim to fame was producing 1962 NFC Bigstone Hope.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:22 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
nikegundog wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote: Labs pointed before that kennel was ever known. They've pointed forever. I can't comment on silver labs, but as far as pointing labs, I don't think they had anything to do with Kellogg Kennels. You see yellow, black, chocolate; they all point. And have since I've been involved in them. That was on the west coast and it's doubtful any Kellogg lab's made their way to Idaho.
Can you point me to a good book that talks about training one of these "pointing labs" that predate Kellogg? Or perhaps a couple article on pointing labs, or a kennel advertising them for sale, that predate Kellogg?
I haven't heard of Kellogs kennels till some one said they started the silver lab fantasies which I think maybe mislabeling but that came decades after labs were pointing. I haven't figured out what the need for pointing lab books on training would be for since we do not teach dogs to point but rather teach them what we expect after the point and it is the same for all dogs. In all honesty it is more about what you like to see and little about the dogs.
That's ok, your not to old to learn.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by Marsh2 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:36 pm

Here is what I have as personal experience. I purchased a PL from Hunters Point Kennel in 1998. The sire and dam were both titled in APLA as well as in AKC and UKC. The dog was flat out a monster on pheasants. I also hunted quail, grouse and woodcock in the uplands and shot goose and ducks as well. He did point which was a natural point- I knew next to nothing about training hunting dogs. My good friend who lives in Northern MI recently purchased a lab from Greenwing Kennel in Alanson MI. His wife and daughter came down to visit for a weekend and brought the pup. They asked if I would show them how to introduce birds in the field. I had some chuckars and put three in the field- that pup locked up tight on all three.... Tail was high, leg pulled. Nice looking points. We will see how she progresses...

Not sure if it helps you- but figured I would share. Training, as mentioned above, is the same for any dog that points so I doubt you will find much specialized in the reading section.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:04 pm

Marsh2 wrote:Here is what I have as personal experience. I purchased a PL from Hunters Point Kennel in 1998. The sire and dam were both titled in APLA as well as in AKC and UKC. The dog was flat out a monster on pheasants. I also hunted quail, grouse and woodcock in the uplands and shot goose and ducks as well. He did point which was a natural point- I knew next to nothing about training hunting dogs. My good friend who lives in Northern MI recently purchased a lab from Greenwing Kennel in Alanson MI. His wife and daughter came down to visit for a weekend and brought the pup. They asked if I would show them how to introduce birds in the field. I had some chuckars and put three in the field- that pup locked up tight on all three.... Tail was high, leg pulled. Nice looking points. We will see how she progresses...

Not sure if it helps you- but figured I would share. Training, as mentioned above, is the same for any dog that points so I doubt you will find much specialized in the reading section.
Thanks for proving my "point" :D

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:15 pm

nikegundog wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote: Labs pointed before that kennel was ever known. They've pointed forever. I can't comment on silver labs, but as far as pointing labs, I don't think they had anything to do with Kellogg Kennels. You see yellow, black, chocolate; they all point. And have since I've been involved in them. That was on the west coast and it's doubtful any Kellogg lab's made their way to Idaho.
Can you point me to a good book that talks about training one of these "pointing labs" that predate Kellogg? Or perhaps a couple article on pointing labs, or a kennel advertising them for sale, that predate Kellogg?
There are not many Kennels that predate Kellogg. Back then, there were no books on dog training. There was James Lamb Free, Charles Morgan, and Wolters. No DVD, no VHS, no TV shows. I can't tell you if there was articles about them or not. It was something all the trainers talked about, but you'd have to research the articles. Seems to me all the yapping you guys are doing is about silver labs pointing, which I really know nothing about. Back then blacks that pointed were rare, chocolates and yellows more commonly.

You also have to understand that it was something that no one promoted in labs. Labs were flushing dogs and no one wanted one that pointed so no one bred for it.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by Marsh2 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:32 pm

nikegundog wrote:
Marsh2 wrote:Here is what I have as personal experience. I purchased a PL from Hunters Point Kennel in 1998. The sire and dam were both titled in APLA as well as in AKC and UKC. The dog was flat out a monster on pheasants. I also hunted quail, grouse and woodcock in the uplands and shot goose and ducks as well. He did point which was a natural point- I knew next to nothing about training hunting dogs. My good friend who lives in Northern MI recently purchased a lab from Greenwing Kennel in Alanson MI. His wife and daughter came down to visit for a weekend and brought the pup. They asked if I would show them how to introduce birds in the field. I had some chuckars and put three in the field- that pup locked up tight on all three.... Tail was high, leg pulled. Nice looking points. We will see how she progresses...

Not sure if it helps you- but figured I would share. Training, as mentioned above, is the same for any dog that points so I doubt you will find much specialized in the reading section.
Thanks for proving my "point" :D
Sorry- what point does my direct experience prove?

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:48 pm

Marsh2 wrote:
nikegundog wrote:
Marsh2 wrote:Here is what I have as personal experience. I purchased a PL from Hunters Point Kennel in 1998. The sire and dam were both titled in APLA as well as in AKC and UKC. The dog was flat out a monster on pheasants. I also hunted quail, grouse and woodcock in the uplands and shot goose and ducks as well. He did point which was a natural point- I knew next to nothing about training hunting dogs. My good friend who lives in Northern MI recently purchased a lab from Greenwing Kennel in Alanson MI. His wife and daughter came down to visit for a weekend and brought the pup. They asked if I would show them how to introduce birds in the field. I had some chuckars and put three in the field- that pup locked up tight on all three.... Tail was high, leg pulled. Nice looking points. We will see how she progresses...

Not sure if it helps you- but figured I would share. Training, as mentioned above, is the same for any dog that points so I doubt you will find much specialized in the reading section.
Thanks for proving my "point" :D
Sorry- what point does my direct experience prove?
I googled the Kennel, bloodlines go right back to Mayo Kellogg, I would've never guessed. :D

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by MJB64 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:15 pm

I wonder if there is a direct relationship between the percentage of pups in a litter that point and the ratio of raw diet vs. kibble fed. JUST KIDDING!

Mike

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:22 pm

nikegundog wrote:
Not sure if it helps you- but figured I would share. Training, as mentioned above, is the same for any dog that points so I doubt you will find much specialized in the reading section.
Thanks for proving my "point" :D[/quote]
Sorry- what point does my direct experience prove?[/quote]

I googled the Kennel, bloodlines go right back to Mayo Kellogg, I would've never guessed. :D[/quote]


Would you mind posting that? I googled both kennels, looked at all of their stud dogs 5G pedigrees, and didn't see any Kellogg dogs in it. Lots of Mary Howley's Candlewood dogs and Jay Walkers Trieven dogs, buy no Kellogg.???

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:35 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:

Would you mind posting that? I googled both kennels, looked at all of their stud dogs 5G pedigrees, and didn't see any Kellogg dogs in it. Lots of Mary Howley's Candlewood dogs and Jay Walkers Trieven dogs, buy no Kellogg.???
http://www.bearpointkennel.com/Pedigree/Bear.pdf

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:43 pm

So how does Bear Point Kennels even enter in to this? The gentlemen said Hunters Point Kennel and his friend had on from Greenwing? In checking all of their dog's, all I see are Field Trial dogs in them.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:51 pm

I googled you Bear Point Kennels and two or three of their dogs go back to a generation of Kellogg. What about their other dogs that have no Kellogg in their background?

I have to say, your assumption that all pointing labs go back to Kellogg is foolish and totally unprovable. Silvers? Maybe.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:44 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:I googled you Bear Point Kennels and two or three of their dogs go back to a generation of Kellogg. What about their other dogs that have no Kellogg in their background?

I have to say, your assumption that all pointing labs go back to Kellogg is foolish and totally unprovable. Silvers? Maybe.
I agree its totally unprovable, the Breed Club notes that with Silvers also, but they also point out that it seems a little more consequence that so many of those dogs lead back to one man, the man who also bred Weims.

From the Labrador Retriever Club:
" Interestingly, the original breeders of “silver” Labradors were also involved in the Weimaraner breed.
Although we cannot conclusively prove that the silver Labrador is a product of crossbreeding the Weimaraner to a Labrador, there is good evidence in scientific literature indicating that the Labrador has never been identified as carrying the dilute gene....................."

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by Trekmoor » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:43 am

It is true that there have been labs that pointed for many years. This is not really surprising since pointers were , a long time ago, bred to labs in Britain. The lab/pointer cross remained fairly popular in Britain for many years although the last ones I saw was about 30 -40 years ago. I met one lab x pointer owned by the owner of a large estate and I met several owned by gamekeepers.

It would not surprise me at all if some of those dogs were bred back to the Labrador again and getting them registered as labs with the K.C. would not have been too difficult back then.

One of my friends bought a black lab bitch pup from a F.T.Ch. sire and a good working lab dam. The bitch ran like a pointer, pointed like a pointer and even looked a little bit like a pointer. She was a good worker as a lab too. She won tests and she won one trial.
She was a throwback. As far as I am aware none of her pups ever pointed though ........

Bill T.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:58 am

nikegundog wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:I googled you Bear Point Kennels and two or three of their dogs go back to a generation of Kellogg. What about their other dogs that have no Kellogg in their background?

I have to say, your assumption that all pointing labs go back to Kellogg is foolish and totally unprovable. Silvers? Maybe.
I agree its totally unprovable, the Breed Club notes that with Silvers also, but they also point out that it seems a little more consequence that so many of those dogs lead back to one man, the man who also bred Weims.

From the Labrador Retriever Club:
" Interestingly, the original breeders of “silver” Labradors were also involved in the Weimaraner breed.
Although we cannot conclusively prove that the silver Labrador is a product of crossbreeding the Weimaraner to a Labrador, there is good evidence in scientific literature indicating that the Labrador has never been identified as carrying the dilute gene....................."
I have no problem with you stating that silver lab's go back to Kellogg. Maybe. When I was campaigning labs, silvers were whispered of but I never even actually saw one. I had seen litters of chocolate's born silver that turned silver as they matured, much like a GWP will be born white then turn roan.

]" googled the Kennel, bloodlines go right back to Mayo Kellogg, I would've never guessed."

As far as I can see, you did not google his kennel bloodlines and they do NOT go back to Kellogg. You are intentionally lying to promote your mistaken view that lab's don't point naturally. By mis-stating if not actually lying, you've lost any and all credibility with me. My problem comes with you stating that all pointing labs can be traced to Kellogg and that is blatant misinformation. Labradors have always pointed as Tremoor stated. I don't see why your mystified by that. It is a legitimate trait.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:00 am

gonehuntin' wrote:
As far as I can see, you did not google his kennel bloodlines and they do NOT go back to Kellogg. You are intentionally lying to promote your mistaken view that lab's don't point naturally. By mis-stating if not actually lying, you've lost any and all credibility with me. My problem comes with you stating that all pointing labs can be traced to Kellogg and that is blatant misinformation. Labradors have always pointed as Tremoor stated. I don't see why your mystified by that. It is a legitimate trait.
Their Lagavulin dog goes back to: Kellogg's Nueler So Dak Al-pt, Kellogg's Murller Sd Frit-pg, Kellogg's Junius SD Mayos Al-PT, Kellogg's S DK Stewart Lady-PT, Kellogg's Sd Muellers Cud-pt, Kellog's White Lake Tarzan, Kellogg's Dak Peterson Jane-PL, Kellogg's Junius So Dak Wid-PL, KELLOGG'S DAK EYECAMPS MISSY, Kellogg's White Lake Ginger, Kellogg’s Junius S Dak Mayo's Ed, Kellogg's Artesian S Dak Rosie...............................

Nice try your dishonesty is showing. :roll:

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:25 am

You'll have to post the pedigree. It doesn't open on their site.

And you're saying that because ONE dog MAY have some KELLOGG in it, that all pointing labs came from KELLOGG and that only pointing labs with Kellogg in their background point? You'll have a hard sell on that one.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:57 am

gonehuntin' wrote:You'll have to post the pedigree. It doesn't open on their site.

And you're saying that because ONE dog MAY have some KELLOGG in it, that all pointing labs came from KELLOGG and that only pointing labs with Kellogg in their background point? You'll have a hard sell on that one.
You called me a liar, and now you say you never checked, your really something else......... I agree with you on one point, someone as dishonest as you, has zero credibility.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by Marsh2 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:33 pm

Nikegundog-

http://pointing-lab.com/gmpr-mpr-ipr-cp ... ail-corky/

this is the sire to my old boy. It really doesn't matter to me- but I do not see Kellogg in the blood line. Are you saying it is there? Just trying to figure out the bloodlines

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:55 pm

I did and I am. That is, for some reason, the only pedigree that won't open on either site. So post it. You have said that every pointing lab goes back to Kellog, that is a lie and you can not even come close to justifying that comment.

You also seem to think that all Klogg did was specialize in pointing labs and that also is incorrect. For years he bred la.
Bs for the hunter including one NFC. Your information and theory is flawed and insulting to any lab breeder that has pointing labs out of FT lines. And if you bother to look, there are many.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:13 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:I did and I am. That is, for some reason, the only pedigree that won't open on either site. So post it. You have said that every pointing lab goes back to Kellog, that is a lie and you can not even come close to justifying that comment.

You also seem to think that all Klogg did was specialize in pointing labs and that also is incorrect. For years he bred la.
Bs for the hunter including one NFC. Your information and theory is flawed and insulting to any lab breeder that has pointing labs out of FT lines. And if you bother to look, there are many.
Could you post where I stated that?

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:18 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:I did and I am. That is, for some reason, the only pedigree that won't open on either site. So post it. You have said that every pointing lab goes back to Kellog, that is a lie and you can not even come close to justifying that comment.

You also seem to think that all Klogg did was specialize in pointing labs and that also is incorrect. For years he bred la.
Bs for the hunter including one NFC. Your information and theory is flawed and insulting to any lab breeder that has pointing labs out of FT lines. And if you bother to look, there are many.
This is incorrect also, not sure why you want to draw that conclusion. If that was your illusion you need to do some research, but don't drag me in with your lack of knowledge.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:19 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:I did and I am. That is, for some reason, the only pedigree that won't open on either site. So post it. You have said that every pointing lab goes back to Kellog, that is a lie and you can not even come close to justifying that comment.

You also seem to think that all Klogg did was specialize in pointing labs and that also is incorrect. For years he bred la.
Bs for the hunter including one NFC. Your information and theory is flawed and insulting to any lab breeder that has pointing labs out of FT lines. And if you bother to look, there are many.
Not sure why a discussion on Silvers of Pointing Labs is an insult to Field Trial lines??????????? :roll:

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:26 pm

nikegundog wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:I did and I am. That is, for some reason, the only pedigree that won't open on either site. So post it. You have said that every pointing lab goes back to Kellog, that is a lie and you can not even come close to justifying that comment.

You also seem to think that all Klogg did was specialize in pointing labs and that also is incorrect. For years he bred la.
Bs for the hunter including one NFC. Your information and theory is flawed and insulting to any lab breeder that has pointing labs out of FT lines. And if you bother to look, there are many.
Not sure why a discussion on Silvers of Pointing Labs is an insult to Field Trial lines??????????? :roll:
You keep inserting Silver labs instead of pointing labs. I have said I'm not sure about silver labs. You keep changing what is being discussed. What you say is that pointing labs are from silvers. Not true. They've always pointed and Hunters Point has many with absolutely no Kellogg in them.

You also said you googled Hunter Point and their dog's went right back to Kellogg. Also not true. Maybe one?

Keep the silver labs out of it. We WERE discussing pointing labs, not silvers.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:28 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
nikegundog wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:I did and I am. That is, for some reason, the only pedigree that won't open on either site. So post it. You have said that every pointing lab goes back to Kellog, that is a lie and you can not even come close to justifying that comment.

You also seem to think that all Klogg did was specialize in pointing labs and that also is incorrect. For years he bred la.
Bs for the hunter including one NFC. Your information and theory is flawed and insulting to any lab breeder that has pointing labs out of FT lines. And if you bother to look, there are many.
Not sure why a discussion on Silvers of Pointing Labs is an insult to Field Trial lines??????????? :roll:
You keep inserting Silver labs instead of pointing labs. I have said I'm not sure about silver labs. You keep changing what is being discussed. What you say is that pointing labs are from silvers. Not true. They've always pointed and Hunters Point has many with absolutely no Kellogg in them.

You also said you googled Hunter Point and their dog's went right back to Kellogg. Also not true. Maybe one?

Keep the silver labs out of it. We WERE discussing pointing labs, not silvers.
I never stated that Pointing Labs are from Silvers, that is another lie from you.

Again, please quote where I stated every pointing lab can be traced to Kellogg.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:51 pm

Marsh2 wrote:Nikegundog-

http://pointing-lab.com/gmpr-mpr-ipr-cp ... ail-corky/

this is the sire to my old boy. It really doesn't matter to me- but I do not see Kellogg in the blood line. Are you saying it is there? Just trying to figure out the bloodlines
Marsh, I don't see any in the Sire. And no I'm not saying that every pointing lab can be traced back to Kellogg. What I am saying is the Labrador Pointing popularity started with Mayo, I haven't ever read of any lines being bred prior to that (If there is written account, I would love to hear). Many of articles have been written, Outdoor life called him the " Real Father of the Pointing Lab", that was also told in the Chicago Tribune, and he wrote articles for DU (I believe) in the early eighties. Stated in an article that at the time he had bred from 800--900 pointing labs and that was probably 25 years ago. Mayo is also where the Silver Labs are traced back to, so although no proof can be made, the same guy started the popularity of both breeds and he was a breeder of Weims, draw any conclusions you want. The Labrador Retriever Club seems to imply the Silver Lab came from a breeder crossing Weims to Labs and a artice written on silver/genetics claim that 99.2% of Silvers lead back to Kellogg. Mayo also one of the founders of the first (?) pointing lab clubs that certified the "point", the International Pointing Labrador Association. Mayo died in 2003.

As far as the kennel you mentioned, I simple followed the pedigrees of two of the dogs they listed, one had Kelloggs dogs in there many generations back, perhaps they don't even know, I just thought it was funny.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:02 pm

nikegundog wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:
nikegundog wrote: Not sure why a discussion on Silvers of Pointing Labs is an insult to Field Trial lines??????????? :roll:
You keep inserting Silver labs instead of pointing labs. I have said I'm not sure about silver labs. You keep changing what is being discussed. What you say is that pointing labs are from silvers. Not true. They've always pointed and Hunters Point has many with absolutely no Kellogg in them.

You also said you googled Hunter Point and their dog's went right back to Kellogg. Also not true. Maybe one?

Keep the silver labs out of it. We WERE discussing pointing labs, not silvers.
I never stated that Pointing Labs are from Silvers, that is another lie from you.

Again, please quote where I stated every pointing lab can be traced to Kellogg.
Nike, you were the one that made the statements about pointing labs all being a product of one kennel and that that was the kennel responsible for introducing silvers as though that somehow indicated that Wiems were responsible for both color and pointing. That may be your thoughts but as we both know you can't back that statement up as being true. So lets just drop it since you have already given all of us your opinion. Several of us stated that we saw owned, or trained pointing Labs way before the kennel you are accusing was around and decades before the silver were introduced. So as the title of this topic says it is about pointing labs and nothing more. And you are not discussing anything other than telling us we are wrong.

Please let us keep this topic open but it will be locked if all we are going to see is you continuing to post your opinion without including the info that proves the only labs that point are labs from Kellogg's kennel while ignoring that many of us have witnessed dogs that point from completely different breeding. You are welcome to your opinion but you are not welcome to tell everyone else they are wrong without the proof.

Ezzy

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:10 pm

ezzy333 wrote: you were the one that made the statements about pointing labs all being a product of one kennel[/color] and that that was the kennel responsible for introducing silvers as though that somehow indicated that Wiems were responsible for both color and pointing. That may be your thoughts but as we both know you can't back that statement up as being true. So lets just drop it since you have already given all of us your opinion. Several of us stated that we saw owned, or trained pointing Labs way before the kennel you are accusing was around and decades before the silver were introduced. So as the title of this topic says it is about pointing labs and nothing more. And you are not discussing anything other than telling us we are wrong.

Please let us keep this topic open but it will be locked if all we are going to see is you continuing to post your opinion without including the info that proves the only labs that point are labs from Kellogg's kennel while ignoring that many of us have witnessed dogs that point from completely different breeding. You are welcome to your opinion but you are not welcome to tell everyone else they are wrong without the proof.

Ezzy
Ezzy, please quote where I stated that. :roll:

It typical of you to lock threads, that is nothing new, I won't put that past you.

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by nikegundog » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:37 pm

Marsh, although Ezzy claims
"Several of us stated that we saw owned, or trained pointing Labs way before the kennel you are accusing was around and decades before the silver were introduced."
, that seems hard to believe given that the kennel was established in 1899. :D

Obviously Ezzy is well informed as always. :D
Kellogg is the third generation of his family to raise Labs. His place near Madison, S.D., is said to be the largest and oldest kennel on the continent, dating from 1899. He said he first saw a Lab point when he was 8 , but no one thought much of it.........
-Chicago Tribune Octeber 16, 1991

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Re: Pointing Lab Popularity

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:06 pm

Nike, I am glad You wouldn't put it past me to do what I said I would do. And you are righ about the Kellogg kennel and I was remiss in not stating the present owner who is the one you are accusing. I have no way of knowing what they are guilty of other than I do know there were pointing labs since way earlier than I was around and as Trekmor has said they have been in England even longer. The Silver Lab, which has nothing to do with this thread is a completely different subject that was discussed on this forum years ago as I recall. With that, I apologize for mot identifying the person rather than just the kennel.

Ezzy

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