GSP puppies pedigree

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evans213
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GSP puppies pedigree

Post by evans213 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:25 am

Guys and Gals,

I have a cousin that is looking at a GSP puppies, pick between a male or female, from a local breeder. They called me asking about them and I said a lot of it is in the breeding and blood line, so with that they texted me pictures of the pedigrees. My question for you all is, can you tell me if this is good blood and maybe some of the traits that these pups good possess? Thanks for your help!!!

The pedigree is:

Little Buddy Furches (sire): Cedar Creeks Hundley Gardner (sire)
Cedar Creeks Ginger Gardner (dam)

Male Puppy that cousin is interested in:

Tarheel Trails Truffles Miss Peebody (dam) (male puppies mom); Trapper Cock of the walk (sire)
Dixie Rae Doodle Dandy (Dam)



Little Buddy Furches (sire)

Female Puppy that cousin is interested in:

Rawhide Clown PK Brown (dam): Checkmates Goloel Clink (sire)
Sassy pipeline clown(dam)

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by Runningdog » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:15 pm

Any background with rawhide clown or dixieland rusty you cannot go wrong!

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deseeker
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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by deseeker » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:51 pm

Since there are NO titles---hunt test titles, field champion titles, NAVHDA titles, or NSTRA titles before or after the dog's names in the pedigree, I'd ask to see both parents on game and go from there. There is no great dogs up close in the pedigrees, so you are going to have to look at the parents to see what they can do on live birds. If he won't show you the parents on birds--I'd pass on the litter--This is just my Opinion. Good luck in finding a bird dog :)

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ezzy333
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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:21 pm

deseeker wrote:Since there are NO titles---hunt test titles, field champion titles, NAVHDA titles, or NSTRA titles before or after the dog's names in the pedigree, I'd ask to see both parents on game and go from there. There is no great dogs up close in the pedigrees, so you are going to have to look at the parents to see what they can do on live birds. If he won't show you the parents on birds--I'd pass on the litter--This is just my Opinion. Good luck in finding a bird dog :)
This an excellent pattern to use. Pedigrees are good for dogs you don't have the opportunity to see in person. But nothing is better than personal observation. Puppies of purebred dogs tend to act and look like mom and pop and that includes their work in the field. Find dogs that you would like to own and buy their pups.

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by RockyTop1384 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:26 pm

Speaking of pedigrees, does anywhere here use or put stock into COIs on pedigrees? Anyone ever have health issues with dogs that have high COI? Ive read few different things on COIs the lower the better but generally dont want more than 5-10% max.

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:54 pm

RockyTop1384 wrote:Speaking of pedigrees, does anywhere here use or put stock into COIs on pedigrees? Anyone ever have health issues with dogs that have high COI? Ive read few different things on COIs the lower the better but generally dont want more than 5-10% max.
I try to find the highest possible to a dog I like. Not saying you can't have health issues but it is pretty unlikely if you know the dogs included in the pedigree.

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by Ms. Cage » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:12 pm

Are the Sire and Dam genetically sound themselve when your looking at high COI breeding. Do you know what recessives both Sire and dam might carry that could come forward. High COI can be great or a cluster. I would never buy a high COI pup from a inexperienced breeder. Could open up a huge can of worms

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:22 pm

Ms. Cage wrote:Are the Sire and Dam genetically sound themselve when your looking at high COI breeding. Do you know what recessives both Sire and dam might carry that could come forward. High COI can be great or a cluster. I would never buy a high COI pup from a inexperienced breeder. Could open up a huge can of worms
It ccould but it is so rare I'll bet you have nebver seen it happen. You have to remember it can happen with a complete outcross too.

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by evans213 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:46 pm

Thanks for the replies and help....i will gather more info one what they are looking for in this new puppy and guide them based on what they want i.e. a hunting dog/NAVHDA (because they have mentioned that) or a family pet only. My cousin did tell me that the breeder said they hunted the sire and I told they need to see about going on a hunt with them to see how he hunts. Also to see how the parents are around children and family life. I am trying to get them to wait until next year when I breed my female to get a pup because I know what she is and what they will get. May be a dumb question but what is C.O.I?

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by Ms. Cage » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:20 pm

Ms. Cage wrote:It ccould but it is so rare I'll bet you have nebver seen it happen. You have to remember it can happen with a complete outcross too.
OH yes we have. Maybe not as rare as you think. Problem those who have those Opp's don't like to talk about it. When a genetic issue pops up and you try to trace it back many want to play dumb. Outcross., you bet. Your pulling from all different direction. Just because you breed a high COI doesn't mean all will be good . You have to start with the proper stock first. When you inbreed you have to remember you can double up a both dominant and recessive genes. What comes forward we don't know until we try. How many inbreeding did whehle and other do that were put in the ground ?
Last edited by Ms. Cage on Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:28 pm

Ms. Cage wrote:
Ms. Cage wrote:It ccould but it is so rare I'll bet you have nebver seen it happen. You have to remember it can happen with a complete outcross too.
OH yes we have. Maybe not as rare as you think. Problem those who have those Opp's don't like to talk about it. When a genetic issue pops up and you try to trace it back many want to play dumb. Outcross., you bet. Your pulling from all different direction.
And how did you determine what particular dog was responsible and what was the relationship in the pedigree? We know today that with DNA we can trace somethings but it was next to impossible in the past to pinpoint anything.

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by Sharon » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:15 pm

evans213 wrote:Thanks for the replies and help....i will gather more info one what they are looking for in this new puppy and guide them based on what they want i.e. a hunting dog/NAVHDA (because they have mentioned that) or a family pet only. My cousin did tell me that the breeder said they hunted the sire and I told they need to see about going on a hunt with them to see how he hunts. Also to see how the parents are around children and family life. I am trying to get them to wait until next year when I breed my female to get a pup because I know what she is and what they will get. May be a dumb question but what is C.O.I?

"COI stands for Coefficient of Inbreeding. Essentially, it measures the common ancestors of dam and sire, and indicates the probability of how genetically similar they are."

http://www.dogbreedhealth.com/a-beginners-guide-to-coi/

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:40 pm

Sharon wrote:
evans213 wrote:Thanks for the replies and help....i will gather more info one what they are looking for in this new puppy and guide them based on what they want i.e. a hunting dog/NAVHDA (because they have mentioned that) or a family pet only. My cousin did tell me that the breeder said they hunted the sire and I told they need to see about going on a hunt with them to see how he hunts. Also to see how the parents are around children and family life. I am trying to get them to wait until next year when I breed my female to get a pup because I know what she is and what they will get. May be a dumb question but what is C.O.I?

"COI stands for Coefficient of Inbreeding. Essentially, it measures the common ancestors of dam and sire, and indicates the probability of how genetically similar they are."

http://www.dogbreedhealth.com/a-beginners-guide-to-coi/
Thanks, I meant to explain it and forgot.

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by cjhills » Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:53 am

evans213 wrote:Thanks for the replies and help....i will gather more info one what they are looking for in this new puppy and guide them based on what they want i.e. a hunting dog/NAVHDA (because they have mentioned that) or a family pet only. My cousin did tell me that the breeder said they hunted the sire and I told they need to see about going on a hunt with them to see how he hunts. Also to see how the parents are around children and family life. I am trying to get them to wait until next year when I breed my female to get a pup because I know what she is and what they will get. May be a dumb question but what is C.O.I?
You might Know what she is, but you do not know what they will get. All we can do is hope for the best and that the dog breeding gods are smiling on us when the breeding takes place. As opposed to laughing.
I have not had better luck with outcrosses. Maybe even worse. Sticking with the related bloodlines that have had genetic issues bred out of them work best for me. There is almost as much chance of two unrelated dogs having matching bad genes as two related dogs in which years of inbreeding have eliminated some genetic problems. But a genetic issue can still rear it's ugly little head on occasion.
I am a eternal optimist. Every breeding is the best ever. But, I am also extremely critical of my puppies. Everything I do not like is a genetic issue. So far I have not got a perfect dog. Maybe in my next litter. due on Christmas.................Cj
The one good thing is with a little research you can get what you want in a GSP and will probably be happy with your dog. at least most of the time.......Cj

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by RyanDoolittle » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:18 am

RockyTop1384 wrote:Speaking of pedigrees, does anywhere here use or put stock into COIs on pedigrees? Anyone ever have health issues with dogs that have high COI? Ive read few different things on COIs the lower the better but generally dont want more than 5-10% max.

My Walnut Hill dog has the same Grand Father on the top and bottom, but the dams on bothe are fairly outcrossed. I havent had any issues so far.

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by Ms. Cage » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:38 am

RyanDoolittle wrote:My Walnut Hill dog has the same Grand Father on the top and bottom, but the dams on bothe are fairly outcrossed. I havent had any issues so far.
IMO there's nothing wrong with a 2-2 line breeding (inbreeding) But It starts with genetically sound parents That's the point I was trying to make . Half brother half sister can work great.

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by evans213 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:48 pm

Well, a small update. They asked to watch the sire hunt and the breeder said no chance! So my cousin ran and told them they are not interested. He said they are looking at a kennel in Kansas but I can't remember the name right off hand. Surprising this has turned into a very knowledgeable little thread on breeding!

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by Sharon » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:23 pm

evans213 wrote:Well, a small update. They asked to watch the sire hunt and the breeder said no chance! So my cousin ran and told them they are not interested. He said they are looking at a kennel in Kansas but I can't remember the name right off hand. Surprising this has turned into a very knowledgeable little thread on breeding!
Wow. Yes that's all the info you need.

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by evans213 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:17 pm

They are now looking at a pup from Outback Gundogs in Kensington, KS. Does anyone know of these and if so, how are the pups?

Stud is Wild Flush Man In Black, he has Top Gun going all the way through his pedigree with 95% of the dogs MH.

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by evans213 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:18 pm

Sharon wrote:
evans213 wrote:Well, a small update. They asked to watch the sire hunt and the breeder said no chance! So my cousin ran and told them they are not interested. He said they are looking at a kennel in Kansas but I can't remember the name right off hand. Surprising this has turned into a very knowledgeable little thread on breeding!
Wow. Yes that's all the info you need.

Yes, I told them to run!! Sounds to me like an unfortunate puppy mill of sorts.

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by cjhills » Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:08 pm

evans213 wrote:They are now looking at a pup from Outback Gundogs in Kensington, KS. Does anyone know of these and if so, how are the pups?

Stud is Wild Flush Man In Black, he has Top Gun going all the way through his pedigree with 95% of the dogs MH.
Who is the dam? Is it one of Kirby's dogs? They are kind of a dog broker and do a lot of buying and selling. Maybe a bit high priced for what they are selling, But who knows. Do not know a lot about there dogs, but I would expect the stud to be a pretty good family hunting dog. I guess he has some Sharpshooter.
Wild Flush bought the Top Gun dogs................Cj

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by evans213 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:26 pm

cjhills wrote:
evans213 wrote:They are now looking at a pup from Outback Gundogs in Kensington, KS. Does anyone know of these and if so, how are the pups?

Stud is Wild Flush Man In Black, he has Top Gun going all the way through his pedigree with 95% of the dogs MH.
Who is the dam? Is it one of Kirby's dogs? They are kind of a dog broker and do a lot of buying and selling. Maybe a bit high priced for what they are selling, But who knows. Do not know a lot about there dogs, but I would expect the stud to be a pretty good family hunting dog. I guess he has some Sharpshooter.
Wild Flush bought the Top Gun dogs................Cj

I am not sure of the dam, and I can only assume it is one of Kirby's dogs. I am going to see if he wants to email them and get all the info he can on it. I have researched and researched it, but with out knowing to many details I am chasing rabbits. Maybe some one with that blood line or a pup from them will chime in. I am sure they are wanting more of a hunting/ family dog, and possibly do NAVHDA. Field trails are not real big around us in upper east TN.

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Re: GSP puppies pedigree

Post by evans213 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:03 pm

Well, after I have done some research and browsing, I have put them in contact with Thunderhead Kennels and it looks like they will possibly be getting a male pup from the Victor + Zoey Christmas breeding!!!

This is going to be sweet because if the pup turns out to be as good as the parents seem, then I will have a nice sire to breed my female to later on!!! :lol:

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