Whistle training help

[ben33127]

Could someone give me a quick breakdown on how to use a whistle to train my pointer. All I want him to do it whoa when I whistle and come to me. He listens to voice commands including whoa very well. I noticed trainers use different blast, ex. 1 blast for here, 2 blast for whoa. I just have no clue how to condition him to the commands and correlate it to the whistle.... Any help will be appreciated.

[shags]

Not hard to do at all

"TOOOOOT! - FIDO COME! - TOOOOOOT!"
Rinse and repeat until he gets it.

"TOOT TOOT! WHOA! TOOT TOOT!
Rinse and repeat until he gets it.

Be aware that if you're doing your dog thing ( hunting or games) around other whistlers, it can get confusing. They can recall or whoa your dog with their whistles. Whether you want that to happen or not.

[ben33127]

hahaha....... thanks for the info. I think I can grasp that .

[RayGubernat]

Agree - It should not be hard to do.

The concept you need to remember is OVERLAY.

You teach a command using a checkcord. then you OVERLAY the chreckcord with voice, cueing the dog with the checkcord AND VOICE simultaneously. After a half dozen or so dual cues, you drop the checkcord and use voice only. If the dog responds correctly to voice only, you lose the checkcord entirely. If not you back up and do some more dual cue repetitions.

Rinse and repeat is about as good a way to say it as there is.

Once a dog has the command down pat with one type of command, you introduce another way of cueing the dog in tandem with the one it already knows, giving the dog two cues. When the dog understands the new cue, you can drop the old one and add a different cue, say an e-collar cue.

Every once in a while, you may want to mix up the cues, just to make sure the dog understands it must still obey the old cue/command.

FWIW, I don't care to use a whistle very much, especially in the field. I much prefer that the dog learn, via the e-collar, to do it on its own, with cues from my body movements, or voice or e-collar. I reserve the whistle and high level e-collar stim for situations where I MUST have compliance, like the dog heading toward a busy roadway.

I prefer to allow the dog as much freedom to operate as I can.

The ULTIMATE cue is when the dog understands what you want it to do and then just does it... right before you would have cued/ commanded it. That is what I constantly work toward.

Think of it this way:

When you are given a set of boundaries by your parents, as a child, the natural tendency is to go right to the edge of that boundary and look over into forbidden territory. If someone taught you to go right up to that boundary and then turn around, you would then see instead... all of the things you are permitted to do and that nobody could chastise you for.

My ideal for the dog is the same. Instead of micromanaging the dog, give it clear, consistent boundaries and then let it operate independently, joyously and confidently...within those boundaries. Then you have a full partner, not just a servant.

The difference can be truly amazing.

RayG

[Sharon]

"The ULTIMATE cue is when the dog understands what you want it to do and then just does it... right before you would have cued/ commanded it. That is what I constantly work toward." quote Ray

Within reason. Sometimes good to mix up the cues. I've got a JRT who when you tell him to sit, sits , lies down, rolls over and stays, and says, "Where's the treat?"
LOL My fault for following the same pattern of commands always when I taught him.

[cjhills]

I definitely do not want my dog doing things ahead of my commands. when I get to the truck I want them to stand with all four feet on the ground until I say" kennel" and the dogs name. Anticipating commands is disobeying and to me is the most aggravating thing a dog can do. I have sold some very good dogs for that........................Cj

[Soarer31]

Not hard to do at all

"TOOOOOT! - FIDO COME! - TOOOOOOT!"
Rinse and repeat until he gets it.

"TOOT TOOT! WHOA! TOOT TOOT!
Rinse and repeat until he gets it.

Be aware that if you're doing your dog thing ( hunting or games) around other whistlers, it can get confusing. They can recall or whoa your dog with their whistles. Whether you want that to happen or not.

I exclusively use whistle with hand signals, it's pointless using voice on pointers at 300+ metres away....they won't here you and I've never had a problem with other whistlers around ...the dog can tell the difference , the dog may pause for a split second when they hear a another whistle and then continue hunting

[RayGubernat]

I definitely do not want my dog doing things ahead of my commands. when I get to the truck I want them to stand with all four feet on the ground until I say" kennel" and the dogs name. Anticipating commands is disobeying and to me is the most aggravating thing a dog can do. I have sold some very good dogs for that........................Cj

cj -

If the dog does exactly what I want it to do, when I would want it to do it... without me saying a word, the moment BEFORE I would issue the command...how in the world can you consider that a bad thing? C'mon now. I am not talking about a dog self releasing from point or whoa...you know that.
If you really mean thwhat you said about a dog anticipating your commands being the MOST aggravating thing a dog can do...all I can say is that you and I want very different kinds of dogs and have VERY different expectations. I am talking about free wheeling, independent bird dogs, not roboticized retrieivers. Some trainers believe they MUST completely control every aspect of the dog's performance in the field and in the yard. I, quite simply do not believe that level of control is consistent with a bird dog. They are, or should be, independent seekers of game.

If a dog is running and hunting ahead of you and covering the ground the way you want, you need to say or do nothing. Saying or doing nothing in such a situation is the correct thing to do. At most, the occasional Good Boy would be appropriate.

If the cover gets thicker I would want the dog to shorten up or turn so as to cover ground laterally while I catch up. If the dog makes that turn or slows down as I am putting the whistle to my mouth, I don't know about you but that makes me smile, because my dog and I are not only on the same page... we are reading the same sentence.

If the dog approaches a thicket or heavily overgrown creek bottom or swale, I would want the dog to slow down a bit and stick its nose in there and check out a birdy area. if it does that, again as I am preparing to signal, that makes me happy. If the dog is running and comes to a road and stops and stands there, looking back for a release from me...I am positively thrilled, because the dog UNDERSTANDS what I want and is doing it because it WANTS to.

What I am attempting to describe is an independent, confident happy bird dog, that does things the way I want them to... because they have become convinced that doing it my way is the best way for them. That is the kind of dog that is not afraid to reach out when necessary and also the kind of dog that is not afraid to reach down and find something extra to give...when other dogs might fold their tents. I absolutely do not want a robot dog that is afraid to use what God and the breeder put in there in an independent fashion. I want a partner.

FWIW, I don't want a dog that was out hunting and which will go to the truck of its own accord. I want one that I have to ORDER to come to the truck, because it does not want to quit hunting. I suppose I am fortunate that , for the most part, I have had dogs that, if they refuse or resist anything, it is a refusal or a reluctance to quit hunting. I can live with that.

RayG

[ezzy333]

Amen Amen Amen

[cjhills]

I guess I have a little trouble figuring out what you are saying. Sounds like you may be saying my dogs are robots or quitters that run to the truck on their own. You could not be more wrong. Do you really train your dog to do all things you mention. if you have to you should get different genetics. mine are born knowing that stuff.
They only know a few commands. Here, heel, whoa, maybe fetch or a tap on the head pretty much takes care of it. They will do them all from voice, whistle and some with hand signals and e-collars.
Now, if I read your first post right, if you shot a bird and your dog ran to retrieve it just before you gave it the command that would mean he is on the same sentence as you. when you get to your vehicle and open the door the dog jumps in he again is on the same page and sentence as you. It is what you want. What if you have four dogs and the all anticipate the retrieve and go right before your command, or all four anticipate the command and jump into the vehicle at once.
Many times you have mentioned when you tell a dog whoa he better not move a toenail. That sounds like a robot to me. if my dog has to turn around or jump out from behind a bush to mark a bird, I am all for it. They all stop on their own But, my dogs retrieve because where I hunt you can not, as you stated in an earlier post walk over and pick up the bird. We hunt real birds in real bird habitat where you will lose half of the birds if you do not have a retrieve.
I rarely (read never) handle my dogs while hunting. My dogs are all experienced bird dogs who know where to look for birds. All of the things you mention my dogs would do just because of their experience. They are not things that I would give a command. The only thing I use a whistle for is stop and of course I would like them to stop on there own rather than run out in front of a truck.
OP sorry for the hi-jack. But, it is Monday so I did not need the sermon from somebody who does not hunt or ezzy's multiple amen.
thank you all...........................cj

[ezzy333]

I guess I have a little trouble figuring out what you are saying. Sounds like you may be saying my dogs are robots or quitters that run to the truck on their own. You could not be more wrong. Do you really train your dog to do all things you mention. if you have to you should get different genetics. mine are born knowing that stuff.
They only know a few commands. Here, heel, whoa, maybe fetch or a tap on the head pretty much takes care of it. They will do them all from voice, whistle and some with hand signals and e-collars.
Now, if I read your first post right, if you shot a bird and your dog ran to retrieve it just before you gave it the command that would mean he is on the same sentence as you. when you get to your vehicle and open the door the dog jumps in he again is on the same page and sentence as you. It is what you want. What if you have four dogs and the all anticipate the retrieve and go right before your command, or all four anticipate the command and jump into the vehicle at once.
Many times you have mentioned when you tell a dog whoa he better not move a toenail. That sounds like a robot to me. if my dog has to turn around or jump out from behind a bush to mark a bird, I am all for it. They all stop on their own But, my dogs retrieve because where I hunt you can not, as you stated in an earlier post walk over and pick up the bird. We hunt real birds in real bird habitat where you will lose half of the birds if you do not have a retrieve.
I rarely (read never) handle my dogs while hunting. My dogs are all experienced bird dogs who know where to look for birds. All of the things you mention my dogs would do just because of their experience. They are not things that I would give a command. The only thing I use a whistle for is stop and of course I would like them to stop on there own rather than run out in front of a truck.
OP sorry for the hi-jack. But, it is Monday so I did not need the sermon from somebody who does not hunt or ezzy's multiple amen.
thank you all...........................cj

believe it or not but my amens were agreeing with Ray's post and I hadn't really read your's at the time. But I have now and am so glad you posted or I would never have known that Ray doesn't hunt and knows nothing about what he speaketh. CJ believe it or not but the world does not revolve around you and many of us have no real incentive to agree or disagree with what you are posting. After all I am sure you are just posting your opinion and you have very right to do that. Just happened I do agree with what Ray posted in this case, and posted just that. I not only agree with some of it but basically word for word. That doesn't happen often but I will refrain in the future till I find if it is OK with you.
Have a good one

Ezzy

[polmaise]

Is this on the 'Cactus thread' ?

[RayGubernat]

I guess I have a little trouble figuring out what you are saying. Sounds like you may be saying my dogs are robots or quitters that run to the truck on their own. You could not be more wrong. Do you really train your dog to do all things you mention. if you have to you should get different genetics. mine are born knowing that stuff.
They only know a few commands. Here, heel, whoa, maybe fetch or a tap on the head pretty much takes care of it. They will do them all from voice, whistle and some with hand signals and e-collars.
Now, if I read your first post right, if you shot a bird and your dog ran to retrieve it just before you gave it the command that would mean he is on the same sentence as you. when you get to your vehicle and open the door the dog jumps in he again is on the same page and sentence as you. It is what you want. What if you have four dogs and the all anticipate the retrieve and go right before your command, or all four anticipate the command and jump into the vehicle at once.
Many times you have mentioned when you tell a dog whoa he better not move a toenail. That sounds like a robot to me. if my dog has to turn around or jump out from behind a bush to mark a bird, I am all for it. They all stop on their own But, my dogs retrieve because where I hunt you can not, as you stated in an earlier post walk over and pick up the bird. We hunt real birds in real bird habitat where you will lose half of the birds if you do not have a retrieve.
I rarely (read never) handle my dogs while hunting. My dogs are all experienced bird dogs who know where to look for birds. All of the things you mention my dogs would do just because of their experience. They are not things that I would give a command. The only thing I use a whistle for is stop and of course I would like them to stop on there own rather than run out in front of a truck.
OP sorry for the hi-jack. But, it is Monday so I did not need the sermon from somebody who does not hunt or ezzy's multiple amen.
thank you all...........................cj

I also need to apologize to the OP for what will follow:

Cj -

You know VERY well what I was referring to. The coy , aw shucks routine don't fly .

I cannot tell you if you have robot dogs or not. The way you describe how you train them ... "Do make me wonder though ???" I sincerely hope you have the kind of dogs you like.

I do find it rather interesting that you have apparently found it necessary to send what appears to be a significant number of dogs..."down the road" as you said. To date, I have YET to send a dog down the road. I just don't do that. There have been some that did not live up to my expectations, but I take ownership and responsibility for most of that because .. I was the trainer. It is ALWAYS the trainer's fault.

My dogs give me everything they have to give...without reserve. If I cannot harness that or guide that or mold that...it is MY fault, not the dog's. So they stay and I keep working with them, trying to figure out a better way to get it done, both for THAT dog and for ones in the future. Sometimes it even works.

That unwillingness to give up on a dog places me at a serious disadvantage in the world of field trialing, but that's OK. I like to win...but that is not the most important thing...for me.

As far as hunting bird is concerned...I started following bird dogs, with a gun in my hand, in 1958. I was the designated flusher for my Dad and uncle a couple of years before that. Just so you know.

But I will say that I really did not know all that much about training a bird dog to a reasonably high level of finish until I got involved with field trials. I thought I did...but I found out just how wrong I was about that and how much more there was to know. I have been involved with trials and trial dogs for about 20 years now and I am still learning things to make my dogs, and me... better.

I am happy for you that you feel your dogs are born with abilities that I have to mold and develop in mine.

Some might call... "BS" to that. Some might say that ignorance is bliss.

I would never do that.

Oh and I do not preach sermons. My aim is to educate those who would learn.

But what can you teach to someone who knows all the answers??

RayG

[setterpoint]

all i can say is when the dog is starting to range out more than ilike i blow the whis. the dog knows to work back to me thats about all i need to control my dogs i train as said above toot comand back with enough reps. i can drop the back comand thats what i want .i dont understand if your dog wont do what my dog will then hes no good i say if you are happy with the dog your the one buying the dog food... i do like to share and see how others on this site train and have got some good ideals from hear

[cjhills]

I definitely do not want my dog doing things ahead of my commands. when I get to the truck I want them to stand with all four feet on the ground until I say" kennel" and the dogs name. Anticipating commands is disobeying and to me is the most aggravating thing a dog can do. I have sold some very good dogs for that........................Cj

This was my original post. It is my opinion. I see nothing insulting, arrogant or anything else that should have caused RG to get upset. I see no reason for Ezzy's insulting comments. It, to me is the worst kind of disobedience.
Why you would find it necessary to insult me, my training and my dogs is beyond my comprehension. I also do not get the "Coy, aw Shucks, routine does not fly" comment or the "you know what I mean".
I also do not see the reason for EZZY's comment "cj, believe it or not the world does not revolve around you"
You may find this very hard to believe, but I could not care less if you or Ray or anyone else on this forum agree with me or not.
I do take issue with the somebody who likes to pass himself off as the worlds greatest trainer. but still finds it necessary to build himself up by insulting a person and his dogs who post something he disagrees with.
Ray, I never said anything about how many dogs I have sent down the road for anticipating but it is truly none of your business and just another way of tooting your horn insulting me.do you keep dogs who do not fit in your program and try to make them fit or do you put them with someone whose program they fit into. I know you said you are on the forum to teach people. I just am not sure what lessons you are teaching. Maybe Cyber bullying
I really thought that the purpose of the forum was to get different points of view. Sorry, I guess I was wrong.
ezzy you will not have to lock this I am done. just give a little thought to the insults you post. thanks for your time...Cj

[ezzy333]

Not my fight but o set the record straight CJ, here is a quote

I definitely do not want my dog doing things ahead of my commands. when I get to the truck I want them to stand with all four feet on the ground until I say" kennel" and the dogs name. Anticipating commands is disobeying and to me is the most aggravating thing a dog can do. I have sold some very good dogs for that........................Cj

I also note Ray was the one with the first post and you found fault with it and not the other way with him finding fault with you. I too will say no more on an open forum.

Ezzy

[cjhills]

Not my fight but o set the record straight CJ, here is a quote

I definitely do not want my dog doing things ahead of my commands. when I get to the truck I want them to stand with all four feet on the ground until I say" kennel" and the dogs name. Anticipating commands is disobeying and to me is the most aggravating thing a dog can do. I have sold some very good dogs for that........................Cj

I also note Ray was the one with the first post and you found fault with it and not the other way with him finding fault with you. I too will say no more on an open forum.

Ezzy

I do not know what record you are setting straight. Your quote and mine are exactly the same and are my op.
If having a differing opinion is finding fault, I am guilty as charged.
Sharon did also 'found fault with it".
Ezzy you read things into post that are not there. I only stated that Mr. Gubernat does not hunt because he has said so himself in a previous post. Never did I say anything about his knowledge of what he speaketh or resort to insults as he has . Some people have a need to insult anyone who has a different opinion because it helps them with there ego. ie; Donald Trump. I have now doubt he knows what he is doing. it just happens I disagree and do not want my dogs anticipating it only goes downhill from there ...............cj

[Sharon]

Hey don't bring my name into this! LOL... but since you did.

You are very knowledgeable Mr Hills. I learn from your posts. Different opinions are always welcome here. The problem is that you come across as a know -it-all and it rubs some members the wrong way - me included.
If you're old, your style is your style, but if you're young here are some suggestions:

https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=n ... now+it+all.

I realize I have probably offended you , but only for the purpose of making you a better member.

[ezzy333]

Hey don't bring my name into this! LOL... but since you did.

You are very knowledgeable Mr Hills. I learn from your posts. Different opinions are always welcome here. The problem is that you come across as a know -it-all and it rubs some members the wrong way - me included.
If you're old, your style is your style, but if you're young here are some suggestions:

https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=n ... now+it+all.

I realize I have probably offended you , but only for the purpose of making you a better member.

Well said and I hope it is taken in the way it is intended.

Ezzy

[cjhills]

I definitely do not want my dog doing things ahead of my commands. when I get to the truck I want them to stand with all four feet on the ground until I say" kennel" and the dogs name. Anticipating commands is disobeying and to me is the most aggravating thing a dog can do. I have sold some very good dogs for that........................Cj

cj -

If the dog does exactly what I want it to do, when I would want it to do it... without me saying a word, the moment BEFORE I would issue the command...how in the world can you consider that a bad thing? C'mon now. I am not talking about a dog self releasing from point or whoa...you know that.
If you really mean thwhat you said about a dog anticipating your commands being the MOST aggravating thing a dog can do...all I can say is that you and I want very different kinds of dogs and have VERY different expectations. I am talking about free wheeling, independent bird dogs, not roboticized retrieivers. Some trainers believe they MUST completely control every aspect of the dog's performance in the field and in the yard. I, quite simply do not believe that level of control is consistent with a bird dog. They are, or should be, independent seekers of game.

If a dog is running and hunting ahead of you and covering the ground the way you want, you need to say or do nothing. Saying or doing nothing in such a situation is the correct thing to do. At most, the occasional Good Boy would be appropriate.

If the cover gets thicker I would want the dog to shorten up or turn so as to cover ground laterally while I catch up. If the dog makes that turn or slows down as I am putting the whistle to my mouth, I don't know about you but that makes me smile, because my dog and I are not only on the same page... we are reading the same sentence.

If the dog approaches a thicket or heavily overgrown creek bottom or swale, I would want the dog to slow down a bit and stick its nose in there and check out a birdy area. if it does that, again as I am preparing to signal, that makes me happy. If the dog is running and comes to a road and stops and stands there, looking back for a release from me...I am positively thrilled, because the dog UNDERSTANDS what I want and is doing it because it WANTS to.

What I am attempting to describe is an independent, confident happy bird dog, that does things the way I want them to... because they have become convinced that doing it my way is the best way for them. That is the kind of dog that is not afraid to reach out when necessary and also the kind of dog that is not afraid to reach down and find something extra to give...when other dogs might fold their tents. I absolutely do not want a robot dog that is afraid to use what God and the breeder put in there in an independent fashion. I want a partner.

FWIW, I don't want a dog that was out hunting and which will go to the truck of its own accord. I want one that I have to ORDER to come to the truck, because it does not want to quit hunting. I suppose I am fortunate that , for the most part, I have had dogs that, if they refuse or resist anything, it is a refusal or a reluctance to quit hunting. I can live with that.

RayG

One last question.These are my first post and Mr gubernate's reacti
this is my original post and Mr. Gubernate's reaction.
I have read them over and over. For the life of me I can not see why he has a problem.
I can not see why I come off as a" know it all" for simply stating my opinion in a simple straight forward post. but Mr. Gubernate writes a long drawn out post in which he insults me, my dogs and training methods and how I want my dogs to work but he is not a smart butt.
It defies reason that he should get so upset because I do not like my dogs anticipating my commands.
Ezzy, you know you would not allow me to insult Mr. Gubernate the way he insults me. I still find your multiple amens offense. Where is your halleluiah Praise the lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
if it is something I need to command the dog to do I want him to wait for my command. it is that simple and it saves a lot of torn up birds and dog fights.
If you run a dog in any kind of competition he can make you look very silly if he knows what your command is going to be and does it a spit second before you give the command. You will definitely fail a hunt test with a dog that does that. Thanks again sorry I wasted so much of your time and mine, but I really hate internet bullys ......Cj

[Meller]

I try to stay neutral to these arguments, but in this case I'm going to venture in; I think you both are closer to agreeing than what you think. I think what Ray is saying is that as long as the dog is reacting in the field according to his training, then his "anticipation" or movement would be a result of breeding and training, so therefore there is not a need for a command; so the dog would not be anticipating a command but rather moving in accordance to his training.
Now if Ray gave a command, I think he would expect the dog to follow it to the letter.

And Mr Hills is saying he doesn't want his dog anticipating a command; such as kenneling up before being told and if trained in this beforehand, he expects the dog to follow it to the letter; because it was part of the training, just as is steady to wing, shot and fall; where ever the dog is through his training needs to be held accountable for his actions and disciplined accordingly. So I'm saying that when Mr Hills gives a command he also wants the dog to follow it to the letter.
Now this is me I think all dogs anticipate different things all the time, I think the leading dog on a point anticipates the retrieve, I think my dogs anticipate feeding time a 4:00 every day, I think they anticipate their treats that I give with a pat on the head every evening. I think what ever they are anticipating
it is up to us to determine, which thing is important enough to correct through training, and what is important to us; maybe Rays dog doesn't suit me, but it suits Ray, Maybe Mr. Hills dogs suit him but don't suit me, and I'm sure mine might not suit either of them. But I am sure we all get the dogs we want through our training and our anticipation. That word anticipation is the problem Ours and the Dogs. JMO

[Spotshooter]

I didn't see this mentioned but ...

Disclaimer - this could be completely the wrong thing to do. - it worked for me though...

I used to use a specific whistle to get the dog to stop and look at me, at which point I'd give a directional command by motioning with my hand in a direction like I was throwing something in a direction over my head but with a bladed hand (like slicing the air in the direction I want him to go).

It worked great for me when I was changing direction at the end of a field and the dog was off into the next quad, and I wanted to re-direct him. My aunt's lab's used this signal method with labs when doing blind water retrieves to re-direct the dog to a downed bird in the water, I just modified it a bit...

Again - - not sure if that's a good thing for folks, but I don't give many commands when field hunting, that one was a common easy one.... Kind of a look at me for hand signals

Spot

[polmaise]

Could someone give me a quick breakdown on how to use a whistle to train my pointer. All I want him to do it whoa when I whistle and come to me. He listens to voice commands including whoa very well. I noticed trainers use different blast, ex. 1 blast for here, 2 blast for whoa. I just have no clue how to condition him to the commands and correlate it to the whistle.... Any help will be appreciated.

Hi Ben,
You could think about it as a tool that is a constant ,much like a clicker is to some. An audible marker that is understood by the dog as 'Good' you done something right.
So, if you broke that down in parts for the dog,you could start with the dog on lead and when you stop blow the whistle (once or twice or whatever you desire,but you must do the same every time) and immediately reward the dog (well it's stopped/whoa anyway because it's on the lead) The reward not necessarily has to be a treat! some are fine with just praise or 'good boy'.

Repetition of this will soon have the dog understanding that that 'constant' is a reward for 'Stop' . Progress to off lead and 'Rinse and repeat' as has been said.
The 'and come to me' In your post is (I believe) a separate act and not 'Together with whoa/stop'
That part is 'Recall' and should (again In my opinion) be a separate command with a different use of the 'constant/whistle' . So that requires different conditioning to 'Stop/whoa' .
When You complicate things with multiple 'pips' of that constant it is usually more confusing for the Handler (to remember) than the dog .
One sharp pip' is easy to condition to 'stop/whoa' , any more than One used repeatedly is so easy to condition to 'come' .
If the Top handler uses different ,it doesn't actually mean that's what you should use ? It just means it suits them !
Hope that helps.
Regards

[AZ Brittany Guy]

Agree - It should not be hard to do.

The concept you need to remember is OVERLAY.

You teach a command using a checkcord. then you OVERLAY the chreckcord with voice, cueing the dog with the checkcord AND VOICE simultaneously. After a half dozen or so dual cues, you drop the checkcord and use voice only. If the dog responds correctly to voice only, you lose the checkcord entirely. If not you back up and do some more dual cue repetitions.

Rinse and repeat is about as good a way to say it as there is.

Once a dog has the command down pat with one type of command, you introduce another way of cueing the dog in tandem with the one it already knows, giving the dog two cues. When the dog understands the new cue, you can drop the old one and add a different cue, say an e-collar cue.

Every once in a while, you may want to mix up the cues, just to make sure the dog understands it must still obey the old cue/command.

FWIW, I don't care to use a whistle very much, especially in the field. I much prefer that the dog learn, via the e-collar, to do it on its own, with cues from my body movements, or voice or e-collar. I reserve the whistle and high level e-collar stim for situations where I MUST have compliance, like the dog heading toward a busy roadway.

I prefer to allow the dog as much freedom to operate as I can.

The ULTIMATE cue is when the dog understands what you want it to do and then just does it... right before you would have cued/ commanded it. That is what I constantly work toward.

Think of it this way:

When you are given a set of boundaries by your parents, as a child, the natural tendency is to go right to the edge of that boundary and look over into forbidden territory. If someone taught you to go right up to that boundary and then turn around, you would then see instead... all of the things you are permitted to do and that nobody could chastise you for.

My ideal for the dog is the same. Instead of micromanaging the dog, give it clear, consistent boundaries and then let it operate independently, joyously and confidently...within those boundaries. Then you have a full partner, not just a servant.

The difference can be truly amazing.

RayG

I really like your partner / servant analogy.