Planted Birds

[jrb_113]

My dog, a 3.5 year old Brittany male is steady on birds when hunting. We don't have any problems there.

For a long time he has known when we are training. He knows when birds are in a launcher or otherwise confined and acts completely differently. I have manual launchers and he actually stands back and watches me pull the string or tips them over with his paw. It doesn't matter how well I cover them. My question is if I buy the remote electronics and start releasing the birds early will he start pointing the launcher.

Has anyone had the same problem? What did you do? Maybe I should just stop using the launcher.

[ezzy333]

The dog should never be close enough to a launcher to even know it is there. I am sure that is the reaction you would get from any dog if it was allowed to stand on top of the launcher. They are to be used with the dog on a CC and the bird would be launched at the very first sign of scenting. And if there is no sign still launch the bird when you think it should smell the bird. Always bring the dog across the scent path and not towards the launcher.

[cjhills]

How does the dog point a launcher bird if he is not close enough to know it is there?
Why are you using launchers with a three year old steady dog. launchers cause about as many problems as they solve. launcher birds smell very different than free birds. the scent builds up on the pad, plus your scent is on the launcher and the launcher smells. Why would dogs point an empty launcher if this were not the case. The dogs learn very soon that it is phony. I left a empty launcher out all winter and a dog pointed it in the spring. Some dogs that are launcher trained have a tough time with real birds at first. Many flagging problems are caused by launchers and you for sure do not want the dog jumping in on launchers
I do not know a lot about it but it would seem logical that planted birds of some sort would work a lot better if the dog is already steady...................Cj

[ezzy333]

I have never seen a problem with launcher when they are used properly.

Ezzy

[oldbeek]

My dog never gets serious on planted birds. Rocked, or in release traps or just dropped as in Nstra. 1 yard off or 20 yards off. The point in my avatar is a wild bird. Electronic traps may change nothing.

[jrb_113]

Guys. Thanks a lot for the candid feedback. Just so you know this is my first dog. I didn't realize launchers could actually cause problems with some dogs. My buddy also has a 3 year old and he points launchers just like anything else but he hasn't hunted nearly as much. I was just trying to have some fun with the dog and was using pen raised quail that don't fly good unless their launched. His retrieve was really coming along at the end of the season and I wanted to keep it going. This dog definitely knows what up. He sits in the house crying at my wife when I go outside to put a bird out. I don't know how he picks up on all these things but somehow he knows. Here is a point on a bird that was not planted.[img]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016021 ... a9be61.jpg[/img]

[cjhills]

I have seen dogs point empty launchers from 50 yards away, flag on launcher points, lack intensity on launcher points, track the trainer to the launcher and all manner of things.
I still do not get how the dog points the launcher if it does not know it is there.
I just do not see many good things coming from having a 3.5 year old steady dog on launcher birds or being on a checkcord. The less phony stuff the better.
find yourself a big field, toss out some good flying quail, maybe dizzied a little, If you can do this out of your vehicle or off a four wheeler, so hopefully the dog does not learn to track. Throw away the checkcord and let the dog hunt. Like Trekmor I am not much of a check cord person. Accept on a puppy so I can catch him when I want to go home.
Again this is only my way of doing it. This method works for me. no reason for anybody to get upset if they disagree. because I sure do not...........cj

[shags]

My dog, a 3.5 year old Brittany male is steady on birds when hunting. We don't have any problems there.

For a long time he has known when we are training. He knows when birds are in a launcher or otherwise confined and acts completely differently. I have manual launchers and he actually stands back and watches me pull the string or tips them over with his paw. It doesn't matter how well I cover them. My question is if I buy the remote electronics and start releasing the birds early will he start pointing the launcher.

Has anyone had the same problem? What did you do? Maybe I should just stop using the launcher.

Can you explain what you are trying to do with your dog? You're likely to get really helpful advice if you made clear your training goal(s). Why launchers on a dog that old, unless you're trying to break him?

To keep your dog from getting sticky and wise to training, change up your routine. Don't use the same field for training each time. Fake the dog out by running him in the training areas with no birds out, and don't do any of your usual training routine, just let him do whatever. Fly some quail and watch where they land, then let your hunt them up. Walk your training area in a different direction, something dumb like with the wind. Go out for 5 minutes then quit. Changes keep dogs on their toes and paying attention; routine gets them where yours is now.

There comes a time in training when trainers need to let go from artifrice and the concept of complete control of every situation. Forget the launchers and checkcords and all that and let the dog make a mistake if he will. Then chase him down and correct him. IMO folks sometimes get too wound up in trying to control the dog and all situations, and it just doesn't work. The dog has to learn to make decisions, and IMO we limit them when we attempt to funnel him down a path where he can never make a mistake. Dogs have to learn what is correct, and also what is not correct. They can't learn what's not correct by never being wrong.

[RayGubernat]

My dog, a 3.5 year old Brittany male is steady on birds when hunting. We don't have any problems there.

For a long time he has known when we are training. He knows when birds are in a launcher or otherwise confined and acts completely differently. I have manual launchers and he actually stands back and watches me pull the string or tips them over with his paw. It doesn't matter how well I cover them. My question is if I buy the remote electronics and start releasing the birds early will he start pointing the launcher.

Has anyone had the same problem? What did you do? Maybe I should just stop using the launcher.

jrb -

It is fairly obvious from your post that the dog has figured YOU out. If you reflect on your last few training sessions, I would be willing to bet that there were a whole lot more similarities between the sessions than differences. You probably use the same area or areas for training, put the birds in the same or nearby locations, go into and through the training areas from the same direction, etc. You and your training scenarios are very likely too predictable.

It is a VERY common trap to fall into, so do not beat yourself up too much. We tend to fall into a routine. The bad news is that Brittanys are pretty smart and perceptive dogs, as a rule. They are fairly quick on the uptake and your dog seems to have your number.

I use remote launchers all the time, but in your case, I do not think they would help significantly. FWIW, what it appears you have been doing with the manual launchers, well, lets just say it is not the way I would have gone about it and I recommend that you put the traps away with this dog...at least for the forseeable future.

What you need to do, I think, is to mix it up...to make it fresh and challenging for the dog. keep him guessing. Make each training session as close as you can to a real, unpredictable, hunting scenario.

There are lots of ways to do that. Changing training areas is one way. Using the same training area, but going at it from a completely different direction is another. Instead of planting birds, free flying them in, letting them set for fifteen or twenty minutes and then "Hunting" them is another. Using a different training bird is another. Putting on your hunting vest and carrying a shotgun(if it is legal) can also throw a curveball to the dog. Running the dog in a birdless field and, after a while, tossing a pigeon that you had hidden in your vest, requiring the dog to do a stop to flush is something that I have done also. Asking for a "stop to flush" is really messing with a dog's head. But that is a good thing because it keeps them interested.

YOU need to be inventive and create new training scenarios. Make it new and fun and challenging for the dog and I think a lot of what you are seeing will go away.

RayG

[jrb_113]

Guys these are fantastic comments. Thanks a lot for the advice. Like I said this is my first dog and I didn't realize how predictable I was getting.

[setterpoint]

you could plant a bird and have the launcher 20 yards or so past the planted bird that way the dog points the planted bird insted of launcher if your dog is holding point what are you trying to do with the dog i use the launcher to make sure dog will not move after point if he does then the bird flys

[kcbullets]

X2, what cj and RayG said.

[Sharon]

Yes. Another thread to print off , ponder on and learn from. Thanks.

[eajusc]

you could plant a bird and have the launcher 20 yards or so past the planted bird that way the dog points the planted bird insted of launcher if your dog is holding point what are you trying to do with the dog i use the launcher to make sure dog will not move after point if he does then the bird flys

Could you (or someone else) explain this to me a little better? I've heard a couple of people mention something like this and it seems as though it could be useful for a couple of issues that I'm having...

[RayGubernat]

I do not often do it this way. I generally prefer tossing pigeons(behind my back) that I have sneaked out of the bag I am carrying.

However, doing it this way will minimize the possibility of the dog developing the habit of pointing the launcher. It will minimize the amount of human or other foreign scents on or around the bird. It will tend to keep the dog focused and steady on point through the remote flush which may facilitate the steadying process for some dogs.

If the dog is pointing the planted bird with intensity, you can often launch the other bird and shoot with the dog still focused on the bird it is actually pointing. You can, of course, launch the bird if the dog loosens up or moves and the bird will still be there, planted, for you to work after you stroke the dog up and for the dog to remain focused on.

if the dog has soured on pigeons, planting a quail or chucker and then using a pigeon in the trap can be a way to still use relatively inexpensive and the often more easily available pigeons.

If you normally just use launchers, it is certainly a way to mix it up and keep it fresh for the dog.

Hope this helps.

RayG

[setterpoint]

ray sum it up pretty good you can do some serching and see where some use this in diff ways and for diff reasons one is there are two birds if when you flush the planted bird the dog might start after it you can pop the bird in the launcher the dog thinks he flushed that bird thers a lot of ways to use this

[shags]

you could plant a bird and have the launcher 20 yards or so past the planted bird that way the dog points the planted bird insted of launcher if your dog is holding point what are you trying to do with the dog i use the launcher to make sure dog will not move after point if he does then the bird flys

Could you (or someone else) explain this to me a little better? I've heard a couple of people mention something like this and it seems as though it could be useful for a couple of issues that I'm having...

When you have multiple birds planted and flush one at a time, it helps keep the dog steady yet up on his toes, always anticipating another bird. If you're into style and intensity, it really helps to keep the dog from letting down after the flush.