New Tracking systems recommends

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Wa Chukar Hunter
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New Tracking systems recommends

Post by Wa Chukar Hunter » Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:25 pm

Well, my Tracker with marshall transmitters finally gave up the ghost. Need info on the new GPS systems which do you recommend - would prefer not to have an ecollar attachment because I will use them in field trials too


Thanks

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mtlhdr
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Re: New Tracking systems recommends

Post by mtlhdr » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:34 pm

Love my alpha 320/dc40 combo. I've had no issues with it whatsoever out west hunting, quail, chukar, and pheasant, except the time I left it on for 4 days between hunts...

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DGFavor
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Re: New Tracking systems recommends

Post by DGFavor » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:16 pm

I would pick up a used Tracker receiver on eBay or similar sale site. I know there are 2 or 3 Maximas listed right now. What frequency are your collars? Quite a few units around and still best way to go for dog recovery.

Wa Chukar Hunter
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Re: New Tracking systems recommends

Post by Wa Chukar Hunter » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:33 am

Doug Would have to check but 417.020 MHZ and 417.000 MHZ ring a bell - will have to check my collars they are in my horse trailer right now.

Doug - Why a Tracker over a Garmin? I suppose there are pros and cons to both - and up until my last two years I always used a Tracker - with my son using a GPS

I guess the biggest pro for a tracker is that the battery life is superior - but the Garmin seems more pin point to me?

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Re: New Tracking systems recommends

Post by RayGubernat » Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:25 am

Wa Chuckar Hunter -

Here's my take on the recovery units.

For training, Nothing beats the garmin. You can know exactly what the dog is doing and where it is doing it... at five second intervals.

Unfortunately, the only option for those who would trial is the T5 collar or the mini.
They no longer sell the 40 and the 50 is too heavy.

For trialing, the garmin may take up to five minutes to locate satellites before it gives you a reading. AND its range, even with the long range antenna is less than half that to the tracker.

With the standard antenna, range is about a mile and a half. Lifetime of the signal is measured in hours.

With a tracker, you flip open the receiver, turn it on and make a slow circle ad you have the signal and the direction of the dog...right now.

RayG

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DGFavor
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Re: New Tracking systems recommends

Post by DGFavor » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:01 am

Why a Tracker over a Garmin? I suppose there are pros and cons to both - and up until my last two years I always used a Tracker - with my son using a GPS
Keith - This is just my opinion from having used both Garmins and telemetry, your mileage may vary. The Garmin units just do not have the reliablility yet IMO for a true lost dog recovery system. In our country/terrain they just lose communication way to often for my comfort level. I know the argument is just go to where you last had comm/get to high ground/etc. but success for that strategy largely requires a static bird dog...most dogs that get themselves over the hill and off comms are not static - if they go over one hill, they're likely to go over the next, you may not catch up to their signal - they get lost. In a field trial situation where you might give a big going dog a 20" head start and a GPS receiver unit that is turned off, recovery can simply be impossible sometimes. Every dog I've known in the last 5 years lost/killed at a trial was wearing a Garmin. Sometimes they don't run off, they get into trouble. Last year Rich Heaton sent me a pic of one of the dogs they were running down in a mine shaft wearing a Garmin...and a Tracker Strike telemetry collar for back up - guess which system found the dog...or which system didn't? :wink: Without telemetry that dog would not likely have been recovered. He told me of another dog wearing only a Garmin they lost early on a hot summer day. No comms from the unit all day. When they were loading up horses at the end of the day, out from under the horse trailer comes the "wayward" hound with his collar still blinking/working but no comms with the unit 10ft. away, stretching/yawning from his all day nap under the shade of the truck where the Garmin couldn't get satellite. IMO, the odds of getting to high ground with any of the telemetry units available and getting a signal/direction are extremely high. If you don't get a signal it's very easy to start eliminating places to look just simply by geography and a little thinking...IME, it's not quite that simple with GPS once you've lost comms, the units are finicky and you might have a dog in direct line of sight but no comms. You've got literally months of battery life in the transmitters on tele units vs. a day if that with GPS. If I truly get a dog lost I can employ my buddies with telemetry receivers to help me and search in multiple directions quickly covering literally hundreds of square miles if the terrain is agreeable...can't really do that with garmins unless you've planned ahead for such a thing and even then the likelihood of re-establishing comms is, well, finicky, especially with units not paired prior.

As far as best thing for training as Ray mentions, I really feel that's debatable...in fact I've noticed they can be horrible for training depending on the individual. As you know training a dog requires critical timing and attention on the dog. I have seen so many people training with their head down, looking at their Garmin screen, mumbling "it says...." - relying on their receiver to pay attention to their dogs. Tele units keep your head up, scanning the direction you are getting looking for the dog. If you are going to a dog on point with your head up, you see immediately if there is a bump/bobble/birds in the air. When you've got a 5 second delay inherent in the GPS system plus have your head down looking at a screen, you miss the bump/bobble/birds in the air and hence you miss the critical timing required for true training, you miss the critical correction - seen it many, many times training with people.

Again, your mileage may vary but I'm a Tracker horder, building a stockpile of collars & receivers to get me thru till GPS perfected. :lol:

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Re: New Tracking systems recommends

Post by shags » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:48 am

I just upgraded from an Astro 220/DC 30 to a 320/T5 Mini and am happy with the new unit. I got the mini instead of the T5 because one of my setters is on the smaller side and the T5 is a little heavier than my previous unit.

At a couple different times I've had dogs go off course and be picked up by random guys, and the Astros pinpointed where my dogs were and we recovered them safely.

I've heard that Garmin found out that I have purchased the new handheld and collar, so of course they immediately made plans to release an even newer version :lol: You might want to check that out if you decide to go with a Garmin product.

Wa Chukar Hunter
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Re: New Tracking systems recommends

Post by Wa Chukar Hunter » Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:29 pm

Thanks guys - I appreciate the input

I remember the last dog I lost we had to go get him the next day on foot - he had run through three fences and was laying next to a cattle waterer when we found him we never lost signmal but I did not think he would be in there that far - we found him no worse for the wear - I had thought that perhaps if I had a GPS we would have found him quicker because it would have told me a distance in miles instead of relying on signal strength

Course I have never not found a dog with the Tracker when they are wearing it - but sometimes it would have been nice to know about how far I had to go to get them.

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Re: New Tracking systems recommends

Post by dan v » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:18 pm

Great post Doc!

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AZ Brittany Guy
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Re: New Tracking systems recommends

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:29 pm

DGFavor wrote:
Why a Tracker over a Garmin? I suppose there are pros and cons to both - and up until my last two years I always used a Tracker - with my son using a GPS
Keith - This is just my opinion from having used both Garmins and telemetry, your mileage may vary. The Garmin units just do not have the reliablility yet IMO for a true lost dog recovery system. In our country/terrain they just lose communication way to often for my comfort level. I know the argument is just go to where you last had comm/get to high ground/etc. but success for that strategy largely requires a static bird dog...most dogs that get themselves over the hill and off comms are not static - if they go over one hill, they're likely to go over the next, you may not catch up to their signal - they get lost. In a field trial situation where you might give a big going dog a 20" head start and a GPS receiver unit that is turned off, recovery can simply be impossible sometimes. Every dog I've known in the last 5 years lost/killed at a trial was wearing a Garmin. Sometimes they don't run off, they get into trouble. Last year Rich Heaton sent me a pic of one of the dogs they were running down in a mine shaft wearing a Garmin...and a Tracker Strike telemetry collar for back up - guess which system found the dog...or which system didn't? :wink: Without telemetry that dog would not likely have been recovered. He told me of another dog wearing only a Garmin they lost early on a hot summer day. No comms from the unit all day. When they were loading up horses at the end of the day, out from under the horse trailer comes the "wayward" hound with his collar still blinking/working but no comms with the unit 10ft. away, stretching/yawning from his all day nap under the shade of the truck where the Garmin couldn't get satellite. IMO, the odds of getting to high ground with any of the telemetry units available and getting a signal/direction are extremely high. If you don't get a signal it's very easy to start eliminating places to look just simply by geography and a little thinking...IME, it's not quite that simple with GPS once you've lost comms, the units are finicky and you might have a dog in direct line of sight but no comms. You've got literally months of battery life in the transmitters on tele units vs. a day if that with GPS. If I truly get a dog lost I can employ my buddies with telemetry receivers to help me and search in multiple directions quickly covering literally hundreds of square miles if the terrain is agreeable...can't really do that with garmins unless you've planned ahead for such a thing and even then the likelihood of re-establishing comms is, well, finicky, especially with units not paired prior.

As far as best thing for training as Ray mentions, I really feel that's debatable...in fact I've noticed they can be horrible for training depending on the individual. As you know training a dog requires critical timing and attention on the dog. I have seen so many people training with their head down, looking at their Garmin screen, mumbling "it says...." - relying on their receiver to pay attention to their dogs. Tele units keep your head up, scanning the direction you are getting looking for the dog. If you are going to a dog on point with your head up, you see immediately if there is a bump/bobble/birds in the air. When you've got a 5 second delay inherent in the GPS system plus have your head down looking at a screen, you miss the bump/bobble/birds in the air and hence you miss the critical timing required for true training, you miss the critical correction - seen it many, many times training with people.

Again, your mileage may vary but I'm a Tracker horder, building a stockpile of collars & receivers to get me thru till GPS perfected. :lol:
You have answered my question Doug. I am still a tracker guy, late adopter and "skin flint". The tracker Hsu worked for me.

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