Field Trial Washouts

Pedro · Post by **Pedro** » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:47 am

I see quite a few people posting looking for dogs. All the dogs on my hunting truck are horseback all age Brittanys, that for one reason or another didn't make the cut. One is a tall gangly liver roan that runs with a low head and sometimes flags, he's a great meat dog. Have another w/o Brittany that always wanted to go see what his bracemate was doing, pro got sick of him and I ended up with him. After shooting a bunch of birds for him he forgot about the other dogs. Have another two that just didn't have the independence that it takes to win at the game. All four are real nice bird dogs, with hall of fame type pedigrees, and bought for not much more than a really well bred pup brings.

If you want a dog at 50-100 yds that you can always see, these type dogs probably aren't what your looking for, but for the most part if a dog doesn't have all age range, once you start working them from the ground, quit pushing them with the horse, and start shooting birds for them, in my experience, most make nice bird dogs. Telling my age, but before I started running Brittanys, I did the same thing with pointers, had some really nice foot hunting dogs out of Miller Showcase/Silver Bullet (at least the papers said so) and Fiddler Pride/Ace prefixes.

Just another option for those looking for a dog...contact your local pro, be it horseback or walking, that runs the breed of your choice, there's a good chance there's one or two on his string that will not make the cut, could be your dog of a lifetime.

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:48 pm

Now that's a very interesting post. Once more the value of wild birds shot.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:25 pm

Been suggesting that option for a good spell....I have found dem dogs shorten up to the cover and the birds.....in shortgrass, clearcut flat, alders or buggy whip aspen.

greg jacobs · Post by **greg jacobs** » Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:44 pm

Nice post. I've seen it talked about quite a few times but not for a while. Great pedigrees, through the puppy stage, lots of training already done, and often less money than a pup.

Roffey · Post by **Roffey** » Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:58 pm

Friend of mine has been looking for a retriever just as you described. He's having a heck of a time. Not overly picky just wants a good meat dog to retrieve waterfowl. Willing to pay going rate for the right dog. Harder to come by then I expected.

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:48 pm

You're a wise man Pedro!

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Sat Feb 27, 2016 8:50 am

Mountaineer wrote:Been suggesting that option for a good spell....I have found dem dogs shorten up to the cover and the birds.....in shortgrass, clearcut flat, alders or buggy whip aspen.

Once you bond with them they will shorten up and hunt for you.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:11 am

I've found field trial rejects, some of them anyway, to be very good value for money. Not everyone needs or wants a dog that hits the horizons and is a world beater in other ways too. About 6 years ago I was given a cocker that had an owner who didn't think he'd ever win in Open trials .....he'd already won a novice though and he was very well trained. He was given to me as a present just to make space for another trial candidate in his previous owners kennels.
He has been a really good dog for my purposes and I didn't even have to train him. His "fault" was and still is that he occasionally runs-in on falling birds or shot rabbits. I can easily live with that.

If I know the dogs history and know and trust it's owner then I have no objections at all to taking a field trial washout from him.

Bill T.

MGIII · Post by **MGIII** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:38 am

Nice post.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:19 am

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:Been suggesting that option for a good spell....I have found dem dogs shorten up to the cover and the birds.....in shortgrass, clearcut flat, alders or buggy whip aspen.
Once you bond with them they will shorten up and hunt for you.

Knowing dogs, especially setters, I believe that reality was implicit in my post.

As well, "hunting for you" does not carry distance as a definition, imo.
Self-hunting is often wrongly in the eye of someone else or in a hunter who is in over his head..or over-dogged, perhaps embarrased.

The reality is in what dog and style satisfies an individual hunter....nothing more.
Not what satisfies someone else or fits an imagined better solution to swatting a gamebird.
Much about bird hunting is waaaay over-analyzed....same with scatterguns and shooting flying.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:41 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
AZ Brittany Guy wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:Been suggesting that option for a good spell....I have found dem dogs shorten up to the cover and the birds.....in shortgrass, clearcut flat, alders or buggy whip aspen.
Once you bond with them they will shorten up and hunt for you.

Knowing dogs, especially setters, I believe that reality was implicit in my post.

As well, "hunting for you" does not carry distance as a definition, imo.
Self-hunting is often wrongly in the eye of someone else or in a hunter who is in over his head..or over-dogged, perhaps embarrased.

The reality is in what dog and style satisfies an individual hunter....nothing more.
Not what satisfies someone else or fits an imagined better solution to swatting a gamebird.
Much about bird hunting is waaaay over-analyzed....same with scatterguns and shooting flying.

Sorry mountainer, your right..you have the last word. No offense intended.

Pedro · Post by **Pedro** » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:26 am

Disclaimer. There are FT washouts that didn't work out for me. Two I'm thinking of had a couple of things in common. They both had a ton of run and very little point. They both spent WAAAAAY to much time in a kennel run early in their lives. I'm sure a better trainer than I could have brought them around, but I wasn't enjoying their company.

Was thinking of breeding one of them as she was built right, had a lot of bottom, and was good gaited, but couldn't get over the brains thing. Likely her arrested development was caused by lack of socialization and early training, might have been a nice litter...never know.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:49 am

Pedro wrote:Disclaimer. There are FT washouts that didn't work out for me. Two I'm thinking of had a couple of things in common. They both had a ton of run and very little point. They both spent WAAAAAY to much time in a kennel run early in their lives. I'm sure a better trainer than I could have brought them around, but I wasn't enjoying their company.

Was thinking of breeding one of them as she was built right, had a lot of bottom, and was good gaited, but couldn't get over the brains thing. Likely her arrested development was caused by lack of socialization and early training, might have been a nice litter...never know.

Kind of gets back to the hereditary verses environment question.

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:31 pm

I firmly believe that it is a lot easier to find a solid hunting dog than a dog that can consistently win FT's.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:56 pm

Elkhunter wrote:I firmly believe that it is a lot easier to find a solid hunting dog than a dog that can consistently win FT's.

U bet. Many new judges look for behavior that is totally against a bird dogs instincts.

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:33 pm

I don't think that. Except for not relocating until asked , a good FT dog is also a good hunter imo.

Pedro · Post by **Pedro** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:23 am

Elkhunter wrote:I firmly believe that it is a lot easier to find a solid hunting dog than a dog that can consistently win FT's.

Agreed.

Best one I ever had didn't necessarily go with you as much as met you there. If he had a bird, and you could hold on to him for an hour, pretty good chance he was going to be used. He was somewhat of a pain to foot hunt as you could walk a long ways to a point. He probably would have figured it out, but died young. Been looking for another one like him since.

AAA Gundogs · Post by **AAA Gundogs** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:21 pm

Pedro wrote:Disclaimer. There are FT washouts that didn't work out for me. Two I'm thinking of had a couple of things in common. They both had a ton of run and very little point. They both spent WAAAAAY to much time in a kennel run early in their lives. I'm sure a better trainer than I could have brought them around, but I wasn't enjoying their company.

Was thinking of breeding one of them as she was built right, had a lot of bottom, and was good gaited, but couldn't get over the brains thing. Likely her arrested development was caused by lack of socialization and early training, might have been a nice litter...never know.

You can pretty much break down the ft tools into 6 categories.

1) race and range

2) stamina and body type

3) style

4) mental capacity

5) bird drive

6) nose

If the dog wasn't washed out for 4, 5, or 6; the capacity is there to transition to being a fantastic wild bird meat dog or even a NASTRA dog.

Honestly, I don't believe the kennel is a problem. I believe that there is two pretty distinct ways of training a field trial prospect. The minimal intervention method where the dog only gets a recall taught and gets to run for its 1st year. The other is one that I see being used more and more. It one where the dog gets lots of ob in the first 6 months and gets to run birds. I believe the later method produces better dogs and subsequently better washouts.

Pedro · Post by **Pedro** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:57 am

"Honestly, I don't believe the kennel is a problem."

Depends on the dog.

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