Breeders - Do you sell your pups to non-hunters?

[polmaise]

Fine. If producing pets is your thing then great. Have at it but don't pretend that producing quality dogs that are capable of performing in the field is your goal or that you care about the integrity of the breed as hunting companions foremost. I don't claim to know everything about how the whole "breeding thing" is supposed to go. To date, I have raised one litter of pups. However, before the breeding I studied pedigrees, ran COIs, researched the success of similar breedings, contacted people who I respect that are knowledgable in the breed to gain their insight, and ensured that my dog and the stud had certifications for all of the appropriate health screenings. I know where every one of those pups are and keep tabs on how they're doing. As a result, all 10 of those pups are doing well, performing at or above the level of their peers, and are in excellent hunting and/or trial homes where they are well cared for and get to do what they were bred to do often and I never had to advertise to sell a single one. All sold by word of mouth. I receive regular updates on their performance in the hunting field and at trials (AF, AKC, and NSTRA). This past weekend I had the opportunity to see one of the pups at a field trial. He got around clean with two birds in a broke dog stake in tough conditions at 20 months old and looked good doing it. I have also had the pleasure of hunting over a couple of them and was proud of what of what I saw and very pleased with how much their owners enjoyed and loved their pups. In addition, I consider every one of them my responsibility until they die and I would pay to take any one of them back in a heartbeat at any time in their life and can guarantee not one of them will ever end up as a rescue dog in some shelter. I was under the impression that that's what it means to be a responsible breeder of fine hunting dogs. I guess my standards are a little high for some of you but I wouldn't do it any other way.

Saying is saying , doing is doing . How many have you taken back in a heartbeat ?

[Gertie]

Saying is saying , doing is doing . How many have you taken back in a heartbeat ?[/quote]

Haven't had to yet. However, I have fostered several dogs that came from some local breeders, paid for their vet care, got them microchipped, and then placed in good homes. I also keep tabs on those dogs and they are doing great.

Here is a photo of one of the dogs I fostered sent to me by his new owners. They love him to death and he's turned out to be a good bird dog!



Here's another foster dog that I had for a few months. She was petrified of both guns and birds so she went to a non-hunting home. However, the gal that adopted her works for a conservation organization and is able to take her to work so she's got it made!



Like I said, I'm far from perfect but at least I'm trying to do right by the breed I care about.

[polmaise]

All I'm saying is that a dog ,any dog lives approx 10-14 years . That is a long time ,and speaking from experience I don't know what my personal situation would be like next year . I could be homeless and penniless. So heart beats suddenly take presidency especially if other factors come in to play.
Nice to have utopia though .

[Gertie]

Far from Utopia but so far so good (good enough for me anyway ). I have a reasonable expectation to be alive and have a roof over my head and I guess that's about as much as one can plan for.

[polmaise]

So One can't guarantee anything
Nice to think we can though .

[Gertie]

Well, I suppose if the standard for keeping one's word includes a promise not to die then you're absolutely right

[SHaRPS]

No, I do not see a "flaw in my theory" (whatever that means). Good luck with your "breeding program". I'm sure you'll have no problem producing lots and lots of "happy little tail waggers".

Sounds like your on a high horse and have it all figured out. Please help our other hunting breeds once your goal is accomplished with your breed, we need it dearly. You say you don't see a flaw, yet you never answered the question I asked you in my first post on how you would label yourself if you lost your job, house, etc. and had less than you have now. According to your "standards", you would have no business owning your own dogs at that point. If only we could all run a "breeding program" like you - the world would be a better place overnight. Utopia.

[SHaRPS]

No, I do not see a "flaw in my theory" (whatever that means). Good luck with your "breeding program". I'm sure you'll have no problem producing lots and lots of "happy little tail waggers".

We have established from your previous post that your goal is to breed pets that hunt or possibily hunting dogs that are pets. For some reason, known only to you , you are much better at this than anyone else.
You are willing to sell your garbage to someone who is not worthy of owning one of your super dogs
and every one else is just "out to line their pockets and has no integrity or cares anything about thebreed"
To reach this lofty goal, you have bought a puppy or two ran a few trials, hunted a little, learned phrases like COI and OFA read a book or two on breeding dogs,
and bred a litter of wonder puppies by breeding your female with a male recommended by like minded friends. Wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!. Congratulations!!!!! you have accomplished what other people have spent lifetimes trying to do. You are my hero!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It may come as a surprise to you but what you have is not a breeding program and one litter does not qualify you as a breeder or to tell every one else they are money grubbing vermin.
Come back when you have bred several generations of these dogs or at least when the litter accomplishes something.
Oh, by the way, you are not improving the breed you are simply breeding more of what a real breeder already has done.
It is a wonder that the English Setters breed survived without you all these years.
Enjoy your dogs. It is a journey not a destination........................Cj

Bingo.

[SHaRPS]

No, I do not see a "flaw in my theory" (whatever that means). Good luck with your "breeding program". I'm sure you'll have no problem producing lots and lots of "happy little tail waggers".

We have established from your previous post that your goal is to breed pets that hunt or possibily hunting dogs that are pets. For some reason, known only to you , you are much better at this than anyone else.
You are willing to sell your garbage to someone who is not worthy of owning one of your super dogs
and every one else is just "out to line their pockets and has no integrity or cares anything about thebreed"
To reach this lofty goal, you have bought a puppy or two ran a few trials, hunted a little, learned phrases like COI and OFA read a book or two on breeding dogs,
and bred a litter of wonder puppies by breeding your female with a male recommended by like minded friends. Wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!. Congratulations!!!!! you have accomplished what other people have spent lifetimes trying to do. You are my hero!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It may come as a surprise to you but what you have is not a breeding program and one litter does not qualify you as a breeder or to tell every one else they are money grubbing vermin.
Come back when you have bred several generations of these dogs or at least when the litter accomplishes something.
Enjoy your dogs. Itis a journey not a destination........................Cj

Wow. Such vitriol. Classy post, btw. I'm not claiming to be an experienced "breeder" but at least I'm making an effort to do it right. Thumbs up to both of you for proving my point. Thanks!

Only point proven here is that your most definitely a know it all. It's quite comical to me how your so great after 1 litter. "Breeding program" - yea right.

[Gertie]

Only point proven here is that your most definitely a know it all. It's quite comical to me how your so great after 1 litter. "Breeding program" - yea right.

Name calling, too? Wow. I guess I really hit a nerve. Enjoy those tail waggers!

[SCT]

Quality breeders are not around every corner.

Anyone can sell puppies, it's got to be about the easiest thing in the world to do. Some people can even make money at it depending on the breed and/or quantity, but ask someone who has bred quality dogs how expensive, time consuming, and sometimes heartbreaking it can be. You have to love your breed and your dogs to put them and yourself through it. It's a darn risky business and not the kind of business someone else should be telling you how to do it.. I wouldn't do it if I didn't love puppies so much;-)

Steve

[Gertie]

I completely agree Steve. As you can probably imagine, I'm not real worried about the comments here. I admire and appreciate folks like yourself who have worked hard to produce exceptional dogs. When (and if) I breed another dog it'll be for the reasons I've already stated and the pups will go to like-minded folks. If that upsets some people, oh well. I've dug my heels in deeper for a lot less.

[cjhills]

Quality breeders are not around every corner.

Anyone can sell puppies, it's got to be about the easiest thing in the world to do. Some people can even make money at it depending on the breed and/or quantity, but ask someone who has bred quality dogs how expensive, time consuming, and sometimes heartbreaking it can be. You have to love your breed and your dogs to put them and yourself through it. It's "bleep" risky business and not the kind of business someone else should be telling you how to do it.. I wouldn't do it if I didn't love puppies so much;-)

Steve

This is the best post on here and is the absolute truth.
I have put a good part of my life and my disposable income into my dogs. buyers do not have a clue what they are getting for the price of a puppy. We guarantee our puppies for life and have taken back puppies and older dogs. For various personal reasons.
This is exactly why this whole thread is so upsetting to me.
The original post is pretty much trolling, you know where it is going.
When breeders say that they do sell to non-hunters they are, according to the OP, only out to line their pockets and care nothing about the breed. Why ask the question if you do not want an answer? Why insult the breeders whose point of view differs from hers (I assume this is a Her)? Is she really so self righteous she presumes to be the only one doing it right. She bred a litter of puppies from some other real breeders dogs. It may even be a very nice litter, but we the jury is still out on that. She has done nothing more than that.
She is doing nothing different than 1000 other breeders. Breeding one litter, that has yet to prove anything does not qualify her tell breeders how to run their kennels.
Yes, I sell puppies to non-hunters I am proud of the fact that my dogs will perform in about any venue that buyers wish to do. I will also put my dogs on the ground with anyone who wants to "bring their best dog". A good setter might even find more birds than mine and a horseback trial dog will have more range. But I am pretty sure I will take mine home at the end of the day.
I started breeding because I wanted a different type of GSP than the ones I could buy. I have accomplished that. Have I improved the breed? probably not.
A word about Coefficient Of Inbreeding, a phrase she seems to like. COI basically means nothing especially to a beginning breeder. it's only real value is to people who have develop a breeding theory and there are as many breeders who like low COI as there is who like high. Personally I like the high side of medium. Probably wrong but who knows. I have had some expensive outcross mistakes
I have a deposit on a litter. The dam's sire is the sire's grandsire. I like this. The breeder has been breeding for 40+ years. I expect this pup to be a great addition to my kennel in two three years and several thousand dollars we will know
This will be the end of this for me. I am sorry to get so of control but it is hard to have some Egotistical beginner accuse me of being some lower from of life who is out to line my pockets, for doing something that has been a labor of love for most of my life. I bet she charged real money for her puppies.
I think Gertie is really Spaulding Hoffhacker............................Cj

[SCT]

I think you two (cjhills and Gertie) got off on the wrong foot and I believe your breeding goals are likely very similar. Let's all get a glass of lemonade and hold a toast in honor of the men and women who came before us with desire to breed the great field athletes that we love. I stand on the shoulders of a couple of guys who have done a great job breeding a "better" pointer, and hope that I can do them justice, along with the people taking my puppies home.

Keep your standards high, and your dogs healthy!

[ezzy333]

Finally a word of reason and a great place to end an endless debate.