Field Trial Question

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Gertie
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Field Trial Question

Post by Gertie » Tue May 17, 2016 8:34 am

I ran one of my dogs in trial this past weekend and my pup pointed a dead chukar in the derby. I went in front of her to flush, found the dead bird (still warmish), called the judge over and showed him, and moved her on. I was told after by another attendee (not a judge) that I could have picked up the dead bird and fired my blank and it would have counted. That seems crazy to me but if it's true I want to keep it under my hat in case the situation ever arises again. Anybody got any feedback on this for me? Thanks in advance for your replies.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by cjhills » Tue May 17, 2016 8:53 am

counted as what?
In a hunt test a dead bird does not count as a find. Do not know about a trial, especially derby.
Interesting that you would want to keep it under your hat.........................Cj

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Gertie » Tue May 17, 2016 9:17 am

He was saying that it would count as a find in an AKC derby stake. There are a lot of dead birds on that course (mostly killed by hawks). If it is a legitimate find then why not remember it in the event it happens again? That said, I posted this situation on another site and it seems that my first reaction was the correct one. It does not count for or against and moving the dog along is the correct way to handle it.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by DonF » Tue May 17, 2016 10:01 am

I don't think it was good or bad and doubt it would count as a find. If the rule's say it can count as a find, the judge should have told you to fire your blank gun. The biggest difference between it and a hot spot is that there actually is a dead bird there. What could happen is the judge can call you back for a point. Being a derby, the pup is not required to stand long, simply establish a point. Biggest problem is probably that interpatation of the rules is the prerogative of the judge. Judge's can call it pretty much what they want or they could call for a call back to establish point, that could have been possible. Don't let it bother you, Wheel's is gonna do fine, she does one heck of a nice job! I'm sure not gonna second guess the judges on this, I wasn't out there. Possibly there was some other thing they didn't care for and the dead bird find gave them an excuse to not use her that would hold water. Get used to it!

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by DonF » Tue May 17, 2016 10:23 am

BTW. I got a super photo of Holly's pup casting off in that brace. Made myself a 13x19 of it. That is one super little girl!

Image

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Soignie » Tue May 17, 2016 10:54 am

In an American Field trial pointing a dead bird is a "non event" and you handled it appropriately by giving the bird to the judge (removing it from the course) and taking your dog on. If they didn't place your dog it likely was for reasons other than the dead bird encounter.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Gertie » Tue May 17, 2016 1:42 pm

DonF wrote:I don't think it was good or bad and doubt it would count as a find. If the rule's say it can count as a find, the judge should have told you to fire your blank gun. The biggest difference between it and a hot spot is that there actually is a dead bird there. What could happen is the judge can call you back for a point. Being a derby, the pup is not required to stand long, simply establish a point. Biggest problem is probably that interpatation of the rules is the prerogative of the judge. Judge's can call it pretty much what they want or they could call for a call back to establish point, that could have been possible. Don't let it bother you, Wheel's is gonna do fine, she does one heck of a nice job! I'm sure not gonna second guess the judges on this, I wasn't out there. Possibly there was some other thing they didn't care for and the dead bird find gave them an excuse to not use her that would hold water. Get used to it!
Thanks for the clarification Don. I completely understand why we didn't get a placement. Other nice dogs had finds (with live birds :lol: ) and we didn't. Water off a duck's back and I don't fault the judges one bit.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by slistoe » Tue May 17, 2016 8:13 pm

It wouldn't count as a find if I was judging.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Sharon » Tue May 17, 2016 9:21 pm

Same thing happened to me in a A.F. shooting dog trial . The dog brought the bird to me. The judge felt the bird and said it was warm, so it was counted against my dog as "jumping" a bird, and I had to pick her up. Seemed right to me. (She'd never done this before, but dogs like to do unexpected things in trials. :) )

If it had been long dead , it wouldn't have counted against the dog, the judge said.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Gertie » Tue May 17, 2016 10:02 pm

DonF wrote:BTW. I got a super photo of Holly's pup casting off in that brace. Made myself a 13x19 of it. That is one super little girl!

Image
Love the picture Don. Thanks for doing what you do out there. You capture a lot of memories for folks and it's pretty neat. This picture of Wheels cracks me up. She looks like a little girl in mama's high heels with that GPS collar on. We call her "needle neck" around the house. Sure fits this photo! :lol:

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by codym » Wed May 18, 2016 1:39 pm

Sharon wrote:Same thing happened to me in a A.F. shooting dog trial . The dog brought the bird to me. The judge felt the bird and said it was warm, so it was counted against my dog as "jumping" a bird, and I had to pick her up. Seemed right to me. (She'd never done this before, but dogs like to do unexpected things in trials. :) )

If it had been long dead , it wouldn't have counted against the dog, the judge said.

Sorry but that makes no sense. The judge cannot judge what he didn't see. If he didn't see your dog run up a bird or catch it then how can you be picked up for it? Where I trial at, quail especially, don't last long on course and can be killed minutes after being planted (hawks, coyotes, heat etc.) so his explanation of how long the bird had been dead doesn't hold water. I have seen this in trials before and I have never seen a dog ordered up for bringing his handler a bird without the judge seeing the dog catch the bird. It's one of those things that everyone has an idea of what happened but its a non event unless a judge sees it. Wrong call in my opinion.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Sharon » Wed May 18, 2016 2:10 pm

I'll tell the judge that next time. :)

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Wed May 18, 2016 3:02 pm

codym wrote:
Sharon wrote:Same thing happened to me in a A.F. shooting dog trial . The dog brought the bird to me. The judge felt the bird and said it was warm, so it was counted against my dog as "jumping" a bird, and I had to pick her up. Seemed right to me. (She'd never done this before, but dogs like to do unexpected things in trials. :) )

If it had been long dead , it wouldn't have counted against the dog, the judge said.

Sorry but that makes no sense. The judge cannot judge what he didn't see. If he didn't see your dog run up a bird or catch it then how can you be picked up for it? Where I trial at, quail especially, don't last long on course and can be killed minutes after being planted (hawks, coyotes, heat etc.) so his explanation of how long the bird had been dead doesn't hold water. I have seen this in trials before and I have never seen a dog ordered up for bringing his handler a bird without the judge seeing the dog catch the bird. It's one of those things that everyone has an idea of what happened but its a non event unless a judge sees it.
Wrong call in my opinion.
Pretty sure u r right. Sounds like the judge may need a little more apprentice work. He cost Sharon an entry fee and wasted her time an fuel monry.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Sharon » Thu May 19, 2016 3:15 pm

not to change the subject I hope :
Also confusing to me when a dog points , the bird is seen leaving before I get there , and the dog relocates herself. This is what I want when hunting, but I've found in trials that the dog is suppose to keep pointing the spot where the bird has long gone , until I get there to relocate her. Judge told me it was a major fault for the dog to relocate herself. IMO that rule should be changed.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by polmaise » Thu May 19, 2016 3:23 pm

Sharon wrote:not to change the subject I hope :
Also confusing to me when a dog points , the bird is seen leaving before I get there , and the dog relocates herself. This is what I want when hunting, but I've found in trials that the dog is suppose to keep pointing the spot where the bird has long gone , until I get there to relocate her. Judge told me it was a major fault for the dog to relocate herself. IMO that rule should be changed.
Probably this judge should be changed too .

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by shags » Thu May 19, 2016 4:51 pm

Sharon, you need to be showing your dogs to different judges :|

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Thu May 19, 2016 5:34 pm

Sharon wrote:not to change the subject I hope :
Also confusing to me when a dog points , the bird is seen leaving before I get there , and the dog relocates herself. This is what I want when hunting, but I've found in trials that the dog is suppose to keep pointing the spot where the bird has long gone , until I get there to relocate her. Judge told me it was a major fault for the dog to relocate herself. IMO that rule should be changed.
In my opinion a dog is not on point until you call point, raise your hat or step in front of the dog. In that situation my dog will look at me and start creeping then I tap him on the sholder and send him on. I have never had to pick him up for doing that because he does not put a bird in the air. When I think he has the bird pinned, I will step forward and call point.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Sharon » Thu May 19, 2016 6:30 pm

shags wrote:Sharon, you need to be showing your dogs to different judges :|
LOL Too late. :)

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by cjhills » Thu May 19, 2016 7:45 pm

In any event I have ever been in, if your dog shows up with a dead warm bird, rules or not or if the judge sees the bird caught or not you are done. You might not be asked to pick him up but the judge will not use your dog.....Cj

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Sharon » Thu May 19, 2016 8:03 pm

Thanks. Two different opinions on the subject. And that's how judging goes. :)

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by ezzy333 » Thu May 19, 2016 8:30 pm

And there lies one of the problems of trials or conformation exhibits. There are things to be judged but there also need to be rules such as this example so it is always black and white. You can not judge something you haven't seen, simple as that.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by shags » Fri May 20, 2016 5:09 am

So many oddball occurances come up at trials, there can't be a rule to cover everything that might happen. There are so many variables - weather conditions, terrain, at least three different species involved, and spit happens :D Lots of what happens isn't black and white, and that's why competition requires "judgement" with a dollop of common sense. I think that's why many of the existing guidelines and rules are a bit vague and leave some wiggle room. Judges need to look for the best performance, not the one that breaks the fewest rules.

in my experience, when one of these questionable, not-black-and-white things happen, leaving the dog down usually works out, as it will either redeem itself or hang itself as the brace goes on. I'd rather reward a great perfomance with a possible "hmmm" in it, than a mediocre one with perfect adhesion to rules that may or may not apply to specific circumstances.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by SCT » Fri May 20, 2016 7:17 am

shags wrote:in my experience, when one of these questionable, not-black-and-white things happen, leaving the dog down usually works out, as it will either redeem itself or hang itself as the brace goes on. I'd rather reward a great perfomance with a possible "hmmm" in it, than a mediocre one with perfect adhesion to rules that may or may not apply to specific circumstances.
True, and this is how the breed improves.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by DonF » Fri May 20, 2016 11:32 am

I don't think you'll find many judge's that will carry a dog after it makes a mistake. But if what we are looking for the best dog, then you simply can't pick up a dog for say happy feet. The dog should always be given the chance to redeem itself. problem is that all dog's have a flaw here and there. By picking up a dog for a step on one bird, you may well let an inferior dog win over a superior one.

As for a bird seen leaving before you get there, can the dog relocate on it's own? Great dog work say's yes it can. The dog's job is to find and accurately locate the bird. In trials, there is no point until the handler calls it. but everything will boil down to judgement calls. Years ago i had a dog down up in Wash, Anderson Ranch. He went through some heavy sage and I went over to find him on a back just out of the sage. The other judge told me to pick my dog up, I had no idea why but I did it. My judge came over after the brace and apologized, the pickup was for a possible interference! Not sure what that is so then I asked. Seem's Drifter was seen by the other handler coming through the brush and the other handler started whoaing him but used wup! I've never had a dog that knew what wup meant! Judgement call by one judge, the other figure's I got a bad rap!

Field trialing is a game. it has little to do with real hunting! Fun game to play and watch but still a game. When you get great dog work and picked up for it, upsetting! A dog by AKC rules used to b able to move out of cover to mark a fall. But I'll tell you right now if it happen's, your history! I suspect there are some judge's that have never hunted wild birds. I've known two in the past. They understand the trial dog but are clueless about the bird dog.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by slistoe » Fri May 20, 2016 11:38 am

shags wrote:So many oddball occurances come up at trials, there can't be a rule to cover everything that might happen. There are so many variables - weather conditions, terrain, at least three different species involved, and spit happens :D Lots of what happens isn't black and white, and that's why competition requires "judgement" with a dollop of common sense. I think that's why many of the existing guidelines and rules are a bit vague and leave some wiggle room. Judges need to look for the best performance, not the one that breaks the fewest rules.

in my experience, when one of these questionable, not-black-and-white things happen, leaving the dog down usually works out, as it will either redeem itself or hang itself as the brace goes on. I'd rather reward a great perfomance with a possible "hmmm" in it, than a mediocre one with perfect adhesion to rules that may or may not apply to specific circumstances.
This.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by slistoe » Fri May 20, 2016 11:42 am

DonF wrote: A dog by AKC rules used to b able to move out of cover to mark a fall. But I'll tell you right now if it happen's, your history!
I would be willing to allow a dog a "move to mark", but have never seen it happen when judging. Everytime the dog moves the handler starts a tirade of emphatic "whoa's". That is most definitely not a move to mark.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by slistoe » Fri May 20, 2016 11:48 am

Sharon wrote:not to change the subject I hope :
Also confusing to me when a dog points , the bird is seen leaving before I get there , and the dog relocates herself. This is what I want when hunting, but I've found in trials that the dog is suppose to keep pointing the spot where the bird has long gone , until I get there to relocate her. Judge told me it was a major fault for the dog to relocate herself. IMO that rule should be changed.
It is the dogs job to get birds pointed for the gun. Some dogs do that time in and time out, over and over. Other dogs fiddle around with the bird and eventually get it to hold - or not. Some judges put higher priority on some things than others - grouse woods dogs and pheasant dogs I think would have a premium on making a bird hold.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Chukar12 » Fri May 20, 2016 12:07 pm

slistoe wrote:
DonF wrote: A dog by AKC rules used to b able to move out of cover to mark a fall. But I'll tell you right now if it happen's, your history!
I would be willing to allow a dog a "move to mark", but have never seen it happen when judging. Everytime the dog moves the handler starts a tirade of emphatic "whoa's". That is most definitely not a move to mark.
This is fo sure.... as a judge, I would happily sit and enjoy a dog marking a bird...however, a tirade of hollering to insure it stops does not add confidence that what you are looking at is a "mark" the guy/gal who knows the dog best is proclaiming it may be a prelude to the chase....alas, many of us as handlers would later lament that said judge didn't use a dog because it moved to mark.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Chukar12 » Fri May 20, 2016 12:11 pm

ohh...and rules for field trials should be ambiguous for lots of reasons. For instance, relocation; if I see a dog establish point and relocate itself up to a handler moving in front I do not have an issue...UNLESS, said dog is clearly roading a bird along that is in plain sight, now unless it is interfering with another dog such as on a divided find, or I am judging a big stake where time is an issue I leave the dog down, but I may not use it. A hard and fast rule cannot be written for everything.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Fri May 20, 2016 12:32 pm

DonF wrote:I don't think you'll find many judge's that will carry a dog after it makes a mistake. But if what we are looking for the best dog, then you simply can't pick up a dog for say happy feet. The dog should always be given the chance to redeem itself. problem is that all dog's have a flaw here and there. By picking up a dog for a step on one bird, you may well let an inferior dog win over a superior one.

As for a bird seen leaving before you get there, can the dog relocate on it's own? Great dog work say's yes it can. The dog's job is to find and accurately locate the bird. In trials, there is no point until the handler calls it. but everything will boil down to judgement calls. Years ago i had a dog down up in Wash, Anderson Ranch. He went through some heavy sage and I went over to find him on a back just out of the sage. The other judge told me to pick my dog up, I had no idea why but I did it. My judge came over after the brace and apologized, the pickup was for a possible interference! Not sure what that is so then I asked. Seem's Drifter was seen by the other handler coming through the brush and the other handler started whoaing him but used wup! I've never had a dog that knew what wup meant! Judgement call by one judge, the other figure's I got a bad rap!

Field trialing is a game. it has little to do with real hunting! Fun game to play and watch but still a game. When you get great dog work and picked up for it, upsetting! A dog by AKC rules used to b able to move out of cover to mark a fall. But I'll tell you right now if it happen's, your history! I suspect there are some judge's that have never hunted wild birds. I've known two in the past. They understand the trial dog but are clueless about the bird dog.
Your last paragraph describes what happened to me once. A hunter / judge understands good bird work and a "by the book " judge understands rules.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by codym » Fri May 20, 2016 8:29 pm

cjhills wrote:In any event I have ever been in, if your dog shows up with a dead warm bird, rules or not or if the judge sees the bird caught or not you are done. You might not be asked to pick him up but the judge will not use your dog.....Cj

I get what your saying and kind of my thoughts as well, but if the dog did in fact catch that bird the chances of him making it through the brace with a broke find after that are pretty dang slim. These things work themselves out. What I don't want is a judge making decisions about what he thinks happened, I've seen this cost me and many others placements. A judge should only make a call on something he/she sees with thier own eyes.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by ezzy333 » Sat May 21, 2016 7:15 am

codym wrote:
cjhills wrote:In any event I have ever been in, if your dog shows up with a dead warm bird, rules or not or if the judge sees the bird caught or not you are done. You might not be asked to pick him up but the judge will not use your dog.....Cj

I get what your saying and kind of my thoughts as well, but if the dog did in fact catch that bird the chances of him making it through the brace with a broke find after that are pretty dang slim. These things work themselves out. What I don't want is a judge making decisions about what he thinks happened, I've seen this cost me and many others placements. A judge should only make a call on something he/she sees with thier own eyes.
This is exactly what I was saying. There is much to be judged but there also has to be black and white rules and this is one of them.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by cjhills » Sat May 21, 2016 8:49 am

If the dog shows up with a warm bird in his mouth you can pretty much bet he caught it. This is more likely in hunting tests where birds are killed and sometimes wounded. With most judges you are done. They almost never see the dog catch the bird.
It is quite easy to tell when you have lost the judges eye and redemption is not going to happen.
If the dog points a dead bird the bird should be picked up by the handler and the dog sent on, as stated it is a non event. Otherwise it is a non-productive.
I read all the rule books I can find and did not find anything about dead birds. Not saying it is not black and white but if it is I missed it....................Cj

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Sharon » Sat May 21, 2016 2:47 pm

shags wrote:So many oddball occurances come up at trials, there can't be a rule to cover everything that might happen. There are so many variables - weather conditions, terrain, at least three different species involved, and spit happens :D Lots of what happens isn't black and white, and that's why competition requires "judgement" with a dollop of common sense. I think that's why many of the existing guidelines and rules are a bit vague and leave some wiggle room. Judges need to look for the best performance, not the one that breaks the fewest rules.

in my experience, when one of these questionable, not-black-and-white things happen, leaving the dog down usually works out, as it will either redeem itself or hang itself as the brace goes on. I'd rather reward a great performance with a possible "hmmm" in it, than a mediocre one with perfect adhesion to rules that may or may not apply to specific circumstances.


Very true. I just got back from a spaniel trial. Unexpectedly a turkey flushed hard from 6+ eggs. :!: To the dog's credit it , as the bird couldn't be shot, the dog held its ground. You just never know.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Chukar12 » Sat May 21, 2016 3:27 pm

CJ how much would you bet the dog killed the bird? I would acquiesce it is the most likely scenario; however, I have twice been a scout when dog A ripped, killed and abandoned a bird that dog B ran across picked up and returned to their handler.

I don't pick up a dog bringing back a dead bird when I don't know where it originated. That being said, the dog is still competing with the rest of the stake and it may not be a contender. The nature of most humans is to express that their dog wasn't used due to the controversial incident rather than a cumulative array of a hundred other things it could be. It's the same story with marking, relocation, etc ...a simple definition can be used either appropriately or erroneously and still not tell the story.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by ncpointers » Sat May 21, 2016 7:31 pm

You cannot judge what you don't see. Other things might be judgement calls but how is it judgement if you didn't see exactly what happened to make the call. We all know what assuming gets us.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by RyanDoolittle » Wed May 25, 2016 11:42 pm

ezzy333 wrote:And there lies one of the problems of trials or conformation exhibits. There are things to be judged but there also need to be rules such as this example so it is always black and white. You can not judge something you haven't seen, simple as that.
From what I have seen a good handler will pick up the dog. Why reward that unwanted behaviour.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Thu May 26, 2016 8:52 am

RyanDoolittle wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:And there lies one of the problems of trials or conformation exhibits. There are things to be judged but there also need to be rules such as this example so it is always black and white. You can not judge something you haven't seen, simple as that.
From what I have seen a good handler will pick up the dog. Why reward that unwanted behaviour.
I think the key here is the dog was a Derby. Some of us are responding as if it was a broke dog Stake.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by DonF » Thu May 26, 2016 3:52 pm

When running a derby dog, I would think it would have enough experience not to chase. To let it do that is to encourage it, and you don't want that. As handler of the dog having it done to it, not a whole lot you can say. You might mention it to the judge but keep in mind, interpretation of the rule's is the prerogative of the judge; he doesn't have to do anything. I think most judge's would warn the other handler though. But unless the other handler choose's to pick up his dog, What will probably happen is the judges will let it go on to long with a dog they won't use anyway! I watched that brace with Wheels until she went out of sight over the far hill. Credit her with handling it great, she was great! If I had been judging I'd have certainly mentioned it to the other handler but would also have given credit for how she handled it. These thing's, in one form or another, are going to happen now and then. Question the judge then live with it.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Soignie » Fri May 27, 2016 10:55 am

[quote]When running a derby dog, I would think it would have enough experience not to chase.

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In American Field there is no requirement for a derby to be steady to wing/shot, if a derby establishes point and then chases it is not a disqualifying breach of manners though typically sorts out the winners.  It is not uncommon to see an early season derby chase a bird though by the time the derby championships roll around it is a different story.

RyanDoolittle
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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by RyanDoolittle » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:55 pm

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:
RyanDoolittle wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:And there lies one of the problems of trials or conformation exhibits. There are things to be judged but there also need to be rules such as this example so it is always black and white. You can not judge something you haven't seen, simple as that.
From what I have seen a good handler will pick up the dog. Why reward that unwanted behaviour.
I think the key here is the dog was a Derby. Some of us are responding as if it was a broke dog Stake.
I think that is why we see so many great derby dogs that wash out as broke dogs.

Soignie
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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Soignie » Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:22 am

I think that is why we see so many great derby dogs that wash out as broke dogs.
I'm not aware of many great derbies washing out (as in not making it through the breaking/finishing process) however a lot of derbies don't succeed when they have to compete against the big boys/girls. A derby is like an amateur/college athlete, many who are good at that age/stage never make it in the big league.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by RyanDoolittle » Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:11 am

Or because they spend their derby year catching these throw down birds. When it comes time for them to stand they have already learned they can catch them. Been there with that and that's why I will no longer run a throw down derby stake. You won't have that issue with wild bird trials. In our Region I believe there is yet to be a dog who has been Derby DOY and Shooting DOY, there's probably a reason for that....

Soignie
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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Soignie » Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:12 am

I'm having a hard time recalling any great derby, pointer or setter, that didn't spend the summer on the prairies working wild birds. I doubt a western region derby will ever be on top of the National Derby List, they have to go south/east where there are large entries and where the derby championships are run (exception being Pacific Coast Derby and how many entries did that have this year). I can think of only two west coast derby stakes that are 1 hour in duration and most (not all but most) of the trials supplement the bird population (even those with some wild birds). Dakotas, Montana and I believe American Falls trials are the only trials I can think of that don't pre-release/supplement the bird population. Be that as it may, the jump from derby to the Open all-age/shooting dog circuit is and has always been a tough one. As the saying goes, if it were easy then everyone would do it.

RyanDoolittle
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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by RyanDoolittle » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:36 pm

Alberta and Saskatchewan AF don't supplement either.

Soignie
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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Soignie » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:40 pm

My limited experience, I considered them as prairie trials.

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dan v
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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by dan v » Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:06 pm

Sharon wrote:not to change the subject I hope :
Also confusing to me when a dog points , the bird is seen leaving before I get there , and the dog relocates herself. This is what I want when hunting, but I've found in trials that the dog is suppose to keep pointing the spot where the bird has long gone , until I get there to relocate her. Judge told me it was a major fault for the dog to relocate herself. IMO that rule should be changed.

I read this, and I guess I'm not fully understanding the question.

Has the dog stopped on game? The dog has indeed gone on point....then the bird leaves, and the dog relocates? Relocates in to what?, another bird in the nearby area?

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Sharon
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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by Sharon » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:17 pm

edited :
What I said had nothing to do with what you asked. Sorry
Two separate subjects here in this thread : relocating and bringing in a dead bird.
(Took me 7 edits to say this. :roll:
Last edited by Sharon on Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:19 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by RayGubernat » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:51 am

Sharon -

Based on your description of the events, I would not have asked to have the dog picked up...BUT

I would have a big question mark in my mind as to just exactly what happened and I would not be favorably inclined, because the most likely scenario is a dog diving in, trapping and grabbing the bird. True...you can't judge what you can't see...but experience tells me that what happened was probably not good.

I would be watching that dog like a hawk for the rest of the brace and I would have a hard time placing it over dogs with clean work.

RayG

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Re: Field Trial Question

Post by slistoe » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:21 am

Sharon wrote:No. I never saw the dog . He simply appeared with the warm bird in his mouth saying , "Why aren't you happy. I got dinner right here.".
Dog is seen on point, bird is seen leaving, dog follows up on bird and returns with warm, dead bird in mouth. Not sure what that has to do with relocating.

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