Pointer Primer

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Ninevehn
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Pointer Primer

Post by Ninevehn » Sat May 21, 2016 9:33 pm

A few years ago, when I started posting here, I mentioned that I was working two jobs to fix up my financial situation and re-enroll to finish a degree. I've traded the two jobs for one, much better, job since then and the re-enrollment is fast approaching. This turning point also means I can finally buy a dog! And I have to admit, I've gotten a bad case of the Pointer bug. They're not exactly what I planned on getting, back when I first started hunting and learning about pointing dogs, but I've never been able to shake them and as a realistic date for purchasing a pup has come into view, that nagging interest has only intensified.

I recognize some bloodline names and the names of a handful of famous dogs, but finding straight-forward, concrete information on the qualities of those lines and breedings has been harder to nail down. I would really appreciate a sort of 'primer' to the major lines and ancestors. I know people like Rebel-bred dogs, or Crow's Little Joe, or Miller or Fiddler, but why? What makes each bloodline special? What qualities does a popular stud seem to pass down the generations? What kennels do y'all like and why?

I will say that I have a fairly good handle on what people like about Elhew's (closer working, more methodical, more foot-oriented), but feel free to talk about them and their kennels anyways! :)
Last edited by Ninevehn on Sun May 22, 2016 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Meller
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Re: Pointer Primer

Post by Meller » Sun May 22, 2016 7:11 am

Give sckwest a holler on here, or set up a time to watch his dogs work, or just chat I think he can tell you a lot about the characteristics of several different cross's; and he isn't that far from you in Missouri.
Good luck on your search. :)

mask
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Re: Pointer Primer

Post by mask » Sun May 22, 2016 11:04 am

Do you plan to compete with this pup or hunt it or both? What kind of trials are you considering if you plan to field trial? There are some kennels I would steer clear of and some that are great. A little more info would help.

Ninevehn
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Location: NE Kansas

Re: Pointer Primer

Post by Ninevehn » Sun May 22, 2016 1:52 pm

I'm more interested in learning what's what in the pointer world than in getting specific recommendations for a pup.

That said, I'm more interested in hunt tests and perhaps walking trials than in AA/horseback trials. Hunting is more important than testing to me, and I hunt public land in Kansas, mostly smaller pieces. I see a lot of half, quarter and eighth sections, and very few pieces larger than a section. I hunt mostly quail and pheasant, and I think getting into our scanty local woodcock would make a better early season than teal.

I do intend to hunt test, and may trial depending on how long it takes to get the dog as far as he'll go in testing. I'm also intending to handle the training myself, though I have some money put back in case I get myself into a jam.

Pedro
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Re: Pointer Primer

Post by Pedro » Mon May 23, 2016 8:11 am

It's hard to paint any one line with a broad brush. Pups are a crapshoot, you're never 100% sure what you are going to get, but you can increase odds of getting what you want by going and looking at parents work and discussing what you want with several different breeders. You can train for what you want, but if you get a pup from two legitimate all age parents, don't be upset if you can't get the dog to quarter at 30-40 yds. There's not enough room on this board to discuss tendencies or attributes of Rebel/Miller/Blackhawk/Fiddler/Erin/Go Boy......I run brittanies today, but in past have had excellent bird dogs out of Miller and Fiddler breeding. One particular Fiddler dog should have gone to someone that could have given him a chance, but I was fine not seeing him much and finding him pointed a few times a day.

KFTCA.org Is website for Kansas Field Trial Clubs. They run a couple of trials in Havensville which may be close to you. Walking and Horseback trials. Members of these clubs often have pups available that they trade among themselves, most bird dog people enjoy talking about their dogs and their ancestors. You're in a good area to be looking for a pointer, there are several folks in NE KS raising, training, trialing some really nice pointers, both hb and walking. Additionally check your local NSTRA clubs. Rather than depending on internet chat to define attributes of any one line, go look at them yourself. There's plenty around you.

Ninevehn
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Re: Pointer Primer

Post by Ninevehn » Mon May 23, 2016 9:47 am

Looking at dogs on the ground is both good advice and on my agenda. I'd like to think I can talk on a dog forum as well; as you say, dog people like talking about their dogs :D

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Sharon
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Re: Pointer Primer

Post by Sharon » Mon May 23, 2016 2:47 pm

[quote="Ninevehn I'm more interested in learning what's what in the pointer world than in getting specific recommendations for a pup.

That said, I'm more interested in hunt tests and perhaps walking trials than in AA/horseback trials. Hunting is more important than testing to me, and I hunt public land in Kansas, mostly smaller pieces. I see a lot of half, quarter and eighth sections, and very few pieces larger than a section. I hunt mostly quail and pheasant, and I think getting into our scanty local woodcock would make a better early season than teal.

I do intend to hunt test, and may trial depending on how long it takes to get the dog as far as he'll go in testing. I'm also intending to handle the training myself, though I have some money put back in case I get myself into a jam.[/quote]

..................................................



"I recognize some bloodline names and the names of a handful of famous dogs, but finding straight-forward, concrete information on the qualities of those lines and breedings has been harder to nail down. I would really appreciate a sort of 'primer' to the major lines and ancestors. I know people like Rebel-bred dogs, or Crow's Little Joe, or Miller or Fiddler, but why? What makes each bloodline special? What qualities does a popular stud seem to pass down the generations?" quote Ninevehn



2015 Hall of Fame list should give you some idea: You'll have to google each one and read up to get the info you are looking for.

Erin’s Bad River, Pointer 823
Hard Driving Bev, Pointer 819
Erin’s Tin Soldier, Pointer 494
Hamilton’s Blue Diamond, Setter 397
Shell Creek Coin, Pointer 371
Funseeker’s Rebel, Pointer 348
Jetsetter, Setter 341
Bearcat, Irish Setter 31
Abra, Irish Setter 30
Ban Dee, Brittany 30
Long Gone Agnes, Setter 27
Beaver Meadow Benjamin, Pointer 26
Ghost Train, Setter 25
Stillmeadow’s Jim, Setter 22
House’s Rain Cloud, Pointer 20
Pennstar, Setter 20
Touch’s White Out, Pointer 20
Long Gone Madison, Setter 19
Man’s Sailin Anne, Pointer 18
Wiggins Miss Sammie, Pointer 17
Great Notion, Pointer 16
Amos Mosley, Setter 14
Prairieland Pride, Pointer 14
Redemption’s Reward, Pointer 14
Shady Hills Billy, Setter 14
Beaver Meadow Bette, Pointer 13
Belfield Silver, Pointer 13
Peacemaker, Pointer 12
Buzzsaw’s Stormy Bud, Pointer 11
Elhew Fibber McGee, Pointer 10
Grouse Ridge John, Setter 10
Grouse Ridge Reroy, Setter 10
Mohawk Mill Sportster, Pointer 10
White Powder Pete, Pointer 10
Builder’s Free Boy, Pointer 8
Elhew Strike, Pointer 8
Grid Iron, Setter 7
Honky Tonk Attitude, Pointer 7
Ronco Traveler, Pointer 7
Shalimar, Pointer 6
Brannigan, Setter 5
Hanna’s Elhew Lou, Pointer 5
I’m Oscar, Setter 5
North Star Judy, Pointer 5
Sam L’s Skyhigh, Setter 5
Satilla Virginia Lady, Pointer 5
Rawhide’s Clown, German Shr. 4
Solid Reward, Pointer 4
Bridges Lake Pat, Pointer 3
Lester’s Absolute, Pointer 3
Pioneer Train Jake, Setter 3
Rail Dancer, Pointer 3
Rocky River Buck, Pointer 3
Roll Call, Pointer 3
Survivor’s Little Bill, Pointer 3
Violet, Pointer 3

polmaise
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Re: Pointer Primer

Post by polmaise » Mon May 23, 2016 2:57 pm

Ninevehn wrote:What qualities does a popular stud seem to pass down the generations?

I will say that I have a fairly good handle on what people like about Elhew's (closer working, more methodical, more foot-oriented), but feel free to talk about them and their kennels anyways! :)
What ever the Dam produced :wink:

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PntrRookie
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Re: Pointer Primer

Post by PntrRookie » Tue May 24, 2016 6:12 am

Ninevehn wrote:...I'm more interested in hunt tests and perhaps walking trials than in AA/horseback trials. Hunting is more important than testing to me, and I hunt public land in Kansas, mostly smaller pieces....
Lots of good people in the KS, MO, OK area that run walking trials that could help - http://www.nbhadog.org/ PM me if you want specific names and numbers

Ninevehn
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Re: Pointer Primer

Post by Ninevehn » Tue May 24, 2016 10:14 pm

Sharon wrote:2015 Hall of Fame list should give you some idea: You'll have to google each one and read up to get the info you are looking for.
That's a really good idea. I don't mind doing my own research at all, just figured some people might have some insight to offer.
polmaise wrote:What ever the Dam produced :wink:
I probably should have expected that reply!
PntrRookie wrote:Lots of good people in the KS, MO, OK area that run walking trials that could help - http://www.nbhadog.org/ PM me if you want specific names and numbers
There are and I will. My brother has pointed me at a couple of folks nearby, also, but the more the merrier.

rinker
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Re: Pointer Primer

Post by rinker » Wed May 25, 2016 7:26 am

"They hustle, handle, have good noses, naturally run to the front, tolerate heat, break early and easy, look good going and on point, back naturally, and are easy keepers." This is pretty close to the answer that you will get from a fan of any of the pointer lines.

Here are some of my own observations, and I'm sure that some will disagree;

Fiddler = extreme style on point, undershot and early onset cancer
Elhew = has been so diluted that it could be darn near anything
Rebel = They are appropriately named, very independent
Crow's Little Joe = I don't know the breeding behind this dog, but my understanding is that he was a NSTRA dog that produced a ton of winners in everything from walking stakes to all age
Rock Acre Blackhawk = I don't have any direct experience with this sire, although he has been very popular and produced a ton of winners, based on which rumor you hear, he is somewhere between half and an eighth English Setter
Miller = I'm a fan and I think they are the most mentally and physically balanced of the pointer lines

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