Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

User avatar
IANative
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Midwest

Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by IANative » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:58 am

Thinking ahead to my next dog. I've got a couple decades of experience owning/training/hunting retrievers and flushers, but as I close in on 50, I'm thinking more strategically about what skills/traits I want in my next pup...

1. close-working pointing dog
2. short, no-maintenance coat
3. as low-shedding as possible
4. 50-60 lbs

The pup will be an indoor member of the family, likely the only dog. I'm thinking either a Vizsla or a Pointing Lab. Probably a smaller female. Since I've no background/experience training pointing dogs, she will receive professional training, rather than me just reading a book. I've read that both breeds are close-working dogs, with the Labs being a little more laid-back and methodical, while the Viz's are more driving and energetic. Both are said to be very attached family members. Of course, those could just be gross generalizations.

Those of you who've had experience with both breeds, what would be your recommendation(s), and why?

mnaj_springer
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1246
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:10 pm
Location: Northern Minnesota

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by mnaj_springer » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:10 am

I know that labs shed. A lot.

User avatar
nikegundog
GDF Junkie
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:21 am
Location: SW Minnesota

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by nikegundog » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:25 am

mnaj_springer wrote:I know that labs shed. A lot.
+1

MSU Aggie
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 4:35 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by MSU Aggie » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:41 am

Of the 2 options go Vizsla. Nothing against pointing labs but i see alot that are just straight up flushers. When you do talk with several breeders. Some will have great pups but be big runners. An honest breeder will help you find the right dog.

User avatar
greg jacobs
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 857
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:04 am
Location: selah washington

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by greg jacobs » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:42 am

From what I've seen some of the Vizsla lines are starting to run bigger. We have a guy that runs his in the local nstra. They run more like a gsp. Need to find a breeder that is focusing on what you want.

brady124
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:35 am

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by brady124 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:44 am

I had a lab and the shedding is real bad. I have done a lot of research for my next dog and I have decided to get a griffon wirehair. low shedding very smart breed and make a great family pet. I have never trained a pointer but most I have read they are fairly easy to train. just thought id throw that out there in case you are open to another breed

User avatar
MNTonester
Rank: Master Hunter
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:51 pm
Location: Duluth, MN

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by MNTonester » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:49 am

my wife says she sweeps up a dog from the way our lab sheds. I could brush him for an hour at a time and it still keeps coming. amazing the amount of hair he produces. a great hunter and pet though. BTW, my poodle doesn't shed and has been steadily busting grouse on walks with my wife (here in the middle of town in the wooded area we live in)

User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
Posts: 8237
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by Sharon » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:49 pm

brady124 wrote:I had a lab and the shedding is real bad. I have done a lot of research for my next dog and I have decided to get a griffon wirehair. low shedding very smart breed and make a great family pet. I have never trained a pointer but most I have read they are fairly easy to train. just thought id throw that out there in case you are open to another breed
famous last words :)

MonsterDad
Rank: 4X Champion
Posts: 600
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:10 pm

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by MonsterDad » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:56 pm

Labs no matter how conditioned have low tolerance for heat. Even a Spinone is better in the heat.

The wirehaireds are a good option along with a V.

MnVzFn
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:31 pm
Location: Mn

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by MnVzFn » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:24 pm

I had Labs for 20 years or so and now have a Vizsla. The shedding was the biggest reason i switched, my dogs live in the house. My vizsla does shed a little- it's just short outer hairs (they have no undercoat) The biggest adjustment was energy level-going from 10 + year old chocolate lab to Vizsla pup was a challenge at times! Both my last lab and the vizsla are pretty similar as far as wanting to be close to you at home so that wasn't big change. My vizsla is 40#, has a much faster working style than my labs, always going full tilt and never wants to quit, but checks in often even in open country. She is everyones best friend in our family, a great pet.

User avatar
IANative
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Midwest

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by IANative » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:49 pm

MonsterDad wrote:Labs no matter how conditioned have low tolerance for heat. Even a Spinone is better in the heat.

The wirehaireds are a good option along with a V.
Good point, though my yellows usually did a little better in warmer weather than the darker Labs. How well do V's handle cold, snowy/icy conditions?

MonsterDad
Rank: 4X Champion
Posts: 600
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:10 pm

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by MonsterDad » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:13 pm

IANative wrote:
MonsterDad wrote:Labs no matter how conditioned have low tolerance for heat. Even a Spinone is better in the heat.

The wirehaireds are a good option along with a V.
Good point, though my yellows usually did a little better in warmer weather than the darker Labs. How well do V's handle cold, snowy/icy conditions?
The V will need some protection. To be honest, one of the three wire haired dogs would be best. The Grif and Spinone are very easy going dogs and both do well in the cold as you could imagine. The Grif has hair and no undercoat and the Spinone has coat wires that it will lose but no undercoat. So neither has an undercoat. The Spinone will lose some hair but it is a light shedder and needs some hand-stripping every three months. It takes about 30 minutes.

These two are incredibly strong swimmers too, the best of the NAVhDA dogs. The Drat is much higher strung and not great as a family dog but incredibly stout and capable. They are both very close hunters and like I said well mannered and very, very quiet in the house. I would say both are messier due to the beard in and out of the water bowl. If you have little kids and older parents around both the Grif and especially the Spinone are utterly reliable.

A Pudelpointer is another nice dog.

brady124
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:35 am

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by brady124 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:36 am

Sharon wrote:
brady124 wrote:I had a lab and the shedding is real bad. I have done a lot of research for my next dog and I have decided to get a griffon wirehair. low shedding very smart breed and make a great family pet. I have never trained a pointer but most I have read they are fairly easy to train. just thought id throw that out there in case you are open to another breed
famous last words :)
do you have experience with a griff? if so I am looking for any and all suggestions. the good thing for me is ill have lots of time to spend with pup as it will be coming to work with me.

MonsterDad
Rank: 4X Champion
Posts: 600
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:10 pm

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by MonsterDad » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:06 am

brady124 wrote:
Sharon wrote:
brady124 wrote:I had a lab and the shedding is real bad. I have done a lot of research for my next dog and I have decided to get a griffon wirehair. low shedding very smart breed and make a great family pet. I hahttp://gundogforum.com/images/2010logo.jpgve never trained a pointer but most I have read they are fairly easy to train. just thought id throw that out there in case you are open to another breed
famous last words :)
do you have experience with a griff? if so I am looking for any and all suggestions. the good thing for me is ill have lots of time to spend with pup as it will be coming to work with me.
I have lots. My best friend has two grifs and I have a Spinone. Apart from size and overall energy level, they are very similar dogs. Both breeds are very good natured, quiet and well behaved. Good with other dogs and animals. Both are easy to train but neither are very sharp on command, rather more independent and aware of the owner's wish but they don't rush to obey. They do but they are not like other bird dogs. They are more instinctive and you just follow. Both breeds are very clingy, especially indoors. Both breeds really gravitate toward the woods and both breeds are truly excellent swimmers.

User avatar
IANative
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Midwest

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by IANative » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:17 am

Thx for the replies thus far. I've limited my choices to the two short-haired breeds listed because I want to get away from the hours of coat care required after a day of hunting or training. Perhaps the coats of the Drat/Spin/other wire-haired breeds don't attract stickers/burrs like my Boykin's does, but there are times when I've spent 2 hours after a day of SD hunting working to get him unstuck and unmatted.

On a related note, I hunted behind a female Drat once, and she may have been the most hard-headedest (is that a word, lol) thing I've ever seen. Of course, in fairness to her, her master wasn't much of a trainer, IMO... a helluva yeller, but not much of a trainer...

I love Labs, but the V seems like a good option because of the low-shed coat and smaller size.

mnaj_springer
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1246
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:10 pm
Location: Northern Minnesota

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:54 am

V's are good dogs. I've seen enough of them to say I enjoy them as dogs and as hunting companions. And they are pretty good retrieves. I've also seen enough of them to know I prefer a bigger running dog, but that's my preference.

User avatar
RoostersMom
GDF Junkie
Posts: 1755
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:42 pm
Location: North Central Missouri

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by RoostersMom » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:25 am

If you get a V, look VERY carefully into the parents for aggression issues. Both to people and to other dogs. I LOVE mine, but I am seeing more aggression in the breed on a regular basis. I see between 40-50 a year at my trainer's place. I've been bit multiple times in the past couple of years by V's. Some lines can't even be around other dogs without starting fights. So just keep this in mind when picking out a good hunting companion - check out the parents and ask probing questions about aggression. Again, I love the breed, and will likely be getting another this year - but you need to be aware that this is a growing issue with the breed. Mine loves to swim and is an EXCELLENT retriever. He is a MH, but is getting quite old these days. Mine is not a bigger runner, but the ones I saw this year at Summer Camp would blow you away - two V's in particular outhunted the GSP's and one was even out further regularly than my Pointer.

MSU Aggie
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 4:35 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by MSU Aggie » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:29 am

If you go with the Vizsla look into Martinsen Red Point Kennel. They are putting out some very good quality Vizslas. They have 4 running in the NAVHDA Invitational this week.

User avatar
ezzy333
GDF Junkie
Posts: 16646
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:14 pm
Location: Dixon IL

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:51 am

RoostersMom wrote:If you get a V, look VERY carefully into the parents for aggression issues. Both to people and to other dogs. I LOVE mine, but I am seeing more aggression in the breed on a regular basis. I see between 40-50 a year at my trainer's place. I've been bit multiple times in the past couple of years by V's. Some lines can't even be around other dogs without starting fights. So just keep this in mind when picking out a good hunting companion - check out the parents and ask probing questions about aggression. Again, I love the breed, and will likely be getting another this year - but you need to be aware that this is a growing issue with the breed. Mine loves to swim and is an EXCELLENT retriever. He is a MH, but is getting quite old these days. Mine is not a bigger runner, but the ones I saw this year at Summer Camp would blow you away - two V's in particular outhunted the GSP's and one was even out further regularly than my Pointer.
This is something new to me. I have never seen or heard of this tendency in a Vizsla. Very surprising in a breed that has always been rather meek and shy in their history.

V-John
Rank: 3X Champion
Posts: 504
Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 8:28 am
Location: Manhattan, Kansas

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by V-John » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:17 pm

RoostersMom wrote:If you get a V, look VERY carefully into the parents for aggression issues. Both to people and to other dogs. I LOVE mine, but I am seeing more aggression in the breed on a regular basis. I see between 40-50 a year at my trainer's place. I've been bit multiple times in the past couple of years by V's. Some lines can't even be around other dogs without starting fights. So just keep this in mind when picking out a good hunting companion - check out the parents and ask probing questions about aggression. Again, I love the breed, and will likely be getting another this year - but you need to be aware that this is a growing issue with the breed.
This. ^^^^

In rescue, I'm seeing more and more people try and surrender their dog because of bites. It's been very frustrating and quite sad. Temperament is becoming a larger issue and I've been bitten a few times.
Also, as far as range, go to a field person who likely will hunt/play the game that you want to play. There are some bigger running vizslas out there and the breeders tend to breed for that like-mindedness.

Just be picky in your search.

User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
Posts: 8237
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by Sharon » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:45 pm

brady124 wrote:
Sharon wrote:
brady124 wrote:I had a lab and the shedding is real bad. I have done a lot of research for my next dog and I have decided to get a griffon wirehair. low shedding very smart breed and make a great family pet. I have never trained a pointer but most I have read they are fairly easy to train. just thought id throw that out there in case you are open to another breed
famous last words :)
do you have experience with a griff? if so I am looking for any and all suggestions. the good thing for me is ill have lots of time to spend with pup as it will be coming to work with me.
I have no experience with griffs. That was just a smart -"bleep" comment as I have yet to find a breed "easier to train". :)

art hubbard
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:57 pm
Location: idaho

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by art hubbard » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:42 pm

Ever consider a Puddlepointer, I understand from what I've heard and read might be just what you're looking for. Very little shed, can take cold weather and I think they are close working, great retriever land or water. Just another option.

Makintrax73
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:18 pm

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by Makintrax73 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:49 pm

When you start talking about how well a dog handles cold/snow I think it makes sense to specify. Of the dogs Ive owned my pointer had the thinest coat, and she wasnt particularly tough as hunting dogs go. Never had any problems hunting her until it was down to around 15 deg. She hunted fine but frostbit her nipples. 20+ never an issue. Frankly I dont really enjoy hunting much or too long when its below 20 anyway. I cant imagine a well bred V would do much worse.

User avatar
greg jacobs
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 857
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:04 am
Location: selah washington

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by greg jacobs » Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:55 am

When it hits 10 or 15° I throw on a neoprene vest. Cabelas vest you can trim around the front legs and under where it hits back legs so they don't chafe.
rsz_20151218_123641-1-1.jpg
rsz_20151218_123641-1-1.jpg (96.29 KiB) Viewed 17930 times

Trekmoor
GDF Junkie
Posts: 1843
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by Trekmoor » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:00 pm

I'd get a vizsla. I have had labs and I love the breed but if I wanted a close coated hunting dog that definitely pointed game I'd get a vizsla. I've never owned a vizsla but I have trained or been involved in the training of a good number of them. So far they have all been good natured dogs very suitable as pets was well as hunters.

I think that as a breed the vizsla tends to be sensitive to anything even resembling harsh training methods ........so if you are quick tempered don't get one ! I find the breed easy to train because they tend to be willing to please.
Almost every vizsla I have ever seen has been a short ranging hunter even though the breed is very athletically built. Their short coat can cause problems in very cold wet weather .......we get plenty of that here in Scotland but a made to measure neoprene jacket soon sorts that problem out.

Bill T.

User avatar
OhioVizsla
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:53 pm
Location: Northern Ohio

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by OhioVizsla » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:31 pm

I have 20 + years with V's & 0 years with pointing labs(so I can't help you with them).

My two V's are out of field trial stock so they tend to run bigger that "foot hunter" stock. Be careful what you're getting. You might be able to find a breeder that advertises close working, but be prepared if you get one that isn't. You can always try to shorten them up.

I have a 10 year old V has about a 100-200 yard range in woods & heavy cover, but will range out further in open cover. He usually is in beeper range. When I turn him loose, I rarely see him unless he's on point. In NSTRA events, he ranges with the best of them.

My 2 year old V has a 200-600 yard range, he isn't let loose without a gps collar on with fresh batteries. He stops for nothing.

They are great house dogs & very much a part of the family, but when they're in the field, they are totally different dogs.

You should try to find some local clubs for both breeds & see them in action before you make a decision. I'm in Ohio & would be glad to show you mine if you're anywhere nearby.

oregon woodsmoke
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:11 pm
Location: Central Oregon

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by oregon woodsmoke » Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:17 pm

I think if you got a wire haired breed that had a soft or wooly coat, you'd be in trouble, cleaning wise. But a hard shortish wire coat is easy care. My only wirehair experience is with Deerhounds, but water, dirt, mud, burrs simply fell right out of their coat with no effort on my part. I think the only trick with a wire coat would be to find a breeder who was producing a really hard (proper) coat. Maybe run a Mars Coat King lightly over the coat every now and again, and maybe a grooming block (that volcanic looking stone) over the area with the longest coat.

The only Pudel Pointer that I know has a short hard coat and she is easy groom and very easy to be around. What a nice temperament that dog has. I know that all coats aren't that good, but that comes down to picking the right breeder.

Labs are great family dogs but they are notorious shedders. If you know in advance and expect it, that's fine, but some people look at what they think is a short coat and think there won't be a lot of hair. The lab coat isn't all that short, it just lays tight. If you want to hunt ducks in cold weather, you can't do much better than a Lab (and possibly a Chesapeake Bay Retriever, who isn't the pointer that you want)

And just another thing to point out. A Pointing Lab is a lot higher energy than a fat short show or English Labrador, if that is a consideration fora house dog.

User avatar
IANative
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Midwest

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by IANative » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:09 pm

Am I doing myself a disservice by not considering a Weimaraner?

Trekmoor
GDF Junkie
Posts: 1843
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by Trekmoor » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:13 am

I have no idea of the state of weimaraners in America but I would not buy one here in Britain. The show folk took over the breed here and the work I see from our weims is seldom very good. In general here, the breed hunts at a trot or a slow lope instead of at a run, it is usually a short range hunter or even a boot polisher and it very often hunts nose to the ground.

I have encountered too many weims with aggression towards other dogs and sometimes towards humans too to want to own one. I was told several years ago that the weim breed outnumbers all other versatile breeds in Britain but I think only one ever became a F.T.Ch.

They just aren't my cup of tea but maybe the slower pace and short hunting range is exactly what you want ?

Bill T.

Vman
Rank: 2X Champion
Posts: 499
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:35 pm
Location: Baraboo Wi.

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by Vman » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:05 am

Being a Pro Trainer it is always a big red flag when someone talks about or wants a "close working pointer". We cannot train DESIRE TO WORK. And after working with thousands of Pointing dogs of all breeds, I have yet to see a dog with High Desire to work and close working. Close working is just another way of saying low desire. I am currently working with a couple of Vizsla Grand Ch. show dogs. Beautiful animals, high energy, but no desire to work or find birds. It is very disturbing to watch a V that couldn`t find a bird in a phone booth. And that goes for any Pointing breed. They all have them and when they sell the pups they are selling close working to the poor folks that didn`t do their homework.

User avatar
IANative
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Midwest

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by IANative » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:23 am

I'm leaning towards the Viz, for many reasons mentioned here. Specifically, the size and coat are exactly what I'm looking for. Picking the right breeder and breeding will be my biggest responsibility. Vman's advice echoes one of my own mantras: "Your don't know what you don't know." My (believed) desire for a close-working pointing dog may simply be indicative of my lack of familiarity w/ pointers and my need over the years to keep flushing dogs within gun range.

This will probably be a decision I finalize next year sometime. Ironically, as my wife and I have begun discussing this w/ folks, I have a list of family and friends lining up asking to adopt my 9-yr old, arthritic Boykin. He's a wonderful dog in the house and yard, very loving towards everyone and everything (except pissed-off roosters) and has several years of retirement bliss to look forward to. Unfortunately, xrays have confirmed degenerative arthritis in both hind legs, severely limiting his stamina in the field. He has done well paired w/ other pointing dogs, so I may have some limited opportunity to hunt both old dog and new together before his time in the field is done.

mnaj_springer
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1246
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:10 pm
Location: Northern Minnesota

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by mnaj_springer » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:41 am

IANative wrote:I'm leaning towards the Viz, for many reasons mentioned here. Specifically, the size and coat are exactly what I'm looking for. Picking the right breeder and breeding will be my biggest responsibility. Vman's advice echoes one of my own mantras: "Your don't know what you don't know." My (believed) desire for a close-working pointing dog may simply be indicative of my lack of familiarity w/ pointers and my need over the years to keep flushing dogs within gun range.
Or maybe you just need to adjust your idea of "close working." My springer working close is 10 yards (this time of year in the grouse woods) and working far out is closer to 20 yards each side and 15 up front. But with my pointer, close working is 40 yards and her usual range on grouse is 60 to 100 yards. In an open field she gets out further. I've had to make the the adjustment of not seeing my pointer work and trusting her to do her job and point birds. A Garmin Astro has helped with that.

Timewise65
Rank: 2X Champion
Posts: 477
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:30 am
Location: Missouri

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by Timewise65 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:58 am

Pointing dogs are bred to run all day long, and accordingly must be run and exercised or you risk behavior issues when in the home. Their are exceptions to this, but many a hunter has made the mistake of buying a good pointer or flushing dog and found them a problem due to the high energy they have.

Retrievers as you know all shed, but can deal with being kept in the home and of course exceptions do occur here also.

A bird dog that does not shed, is a poodle. I have seen a number of them in hunt tests and they can be trained to do blinds and retrieve well. But I have never seen one with drive and style...if you can stand the laughing, consider a field bred poodle....

oregon woodsmoke
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:11 pm
Location: Central Oregon

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by oregon woodsmoke » Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:43 pm

Timewise65 wrote:....if you can stand the laughing, consider a field bred poodle....
Poodles can be good gun dogs, and if you are too sensitive about ridicule, clip the coat short and insist that your dog is a Curly Coated Retriever.

User avatar
IANative
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Midwest

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by IANative » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:17 pm

Re poodles, the need for regular grooming disqualifies them from my consideration. Even if it didn't, from everything I've read, they're flushers/retrievers, not pointers. Definitely an interesting breed, though.

User avatar
IANative
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Midwest

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by IANative » Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:16 am

Related... as a life-long owner of retrievers/flushers, what is a good book (or DVD, I guess) for introducing a new-comer to the world of training/hunting a pointing dog?

mnaj_springer
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1246
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:10 pm
Location: Northern Minnesota

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by mnaj_springer » Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:17 am

I like "Training with Mo"

User avatar
Pheasanttracker
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:46 am
Location: White Haven, PA

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by Pheasanttracker » Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:29 pm

i have a pudelpointer and would say my female is only 50lbs, stays close, points, and loves water even with 2 ft of snow on the ground. very much a people dog and you must be soft handed with her. she wants to please. very little shedding.

Moonshine Ike
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:40 pm
Location: North Central Montana

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by Moonshine Ike » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:42 pm

hasn't the consistent "pointing lab" been proven to be a hoax?

User avatar
ezzy333
GDF Junkie
Posts: 16646
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:14 pm
Location: Dixon IL

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:13 pm

Moonshine Ike wrote:hasn't the consistent "pointing lab" been proven to be a hoax?
No, not at all. They have been around for 50 years and are gaining popularity. They still aren't as stylish or consistent as the older pointing breeds but it does take time.

mnaj_springer
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1246
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:10 pm
Location: Northern Minnesota

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by mnaj_springer » Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:56 pm

Moonshine Ike wrote:hasn't the consistent "pointing lab" been proven to be a hoax?
I don't know if they are a hoax, but they don't do it like an actual pointing breed.

Here's my issue with a pointing lab... I have a flusher and a pointer. They are both great and I love watching both work. My springer is more dependable as of right now but she's older, she's extremely smart, and there are less variables involved with her during her job. But my pointer is coming along quite nicely and after next season should be rock solid on wild birds (by my standards which includes steady to WSF as well as stop-to-flush). That being said, I don't want my pointer hunting the same range as my springer or as a lab would. I got her to range out in the grouse woods so I can be lazy, walk the train, look at the trees and sky, and daydream while I stroll. Then she can do the work, point the birds, hold them, and I can find her on my Astro and hopefully shoot them. That way those birds I'd never find are found. If she didn't range the way she does, she wouldn't be worth the effort because I'd have to get into the thick stuff just to find birds.

NOW all that said, I do get into the thick stuff with my springer. And we are productive. In fact on grouse opener I found just as many birds with her as my pointer. But it's tough work. I'd just hate to have to experience that with my pointer.

User avatar
nikegundog
GDF Junkie
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:21 am
Location: SW Minnesota

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by nikegundog » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:37 pm

Moonshine Ike wrote:hasn't the consistent "pointing lab" been proven to be a hoax?
Look no further than Kellogg Kennels, the "Real Father" of Silver and American Pointing Labs.

User avatar
AtTheMurph
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:35 am
Location: Central Indiana

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by AtTheMurph » Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:15 pm

Here's my semi-informed two cents.

My last dog was a Vizsla. Great dog and great nose. Not the best dog for in the house however. Vizsla's have all day go in them. Sun up to sun down they can and want to run. IMO that's quite a bit of activity to have in a house when you want to settle down. they do shed but the shorter hair and dry coat is much better than labs greasy, stinky coats IMO.

My first dog was a Weim. Fantastic dog, smart as any dog I have ever been around but mischievous, destructive if left to their own devices and my at least was very jealous of my wife. She got to the point where she would empty the clothes hamper, pull out my wife's underwear, socks, shirt, etc and chew it up and leave it on top of the pile she made. She also ate a couch while we were having dinner. But loved that dog! Didn't shed much. She was bigger at 80lbs and could and did pull food off the counter without reaching up.

My latest dog was purchased after doing the same sort of introspection as the OP. I wanted a house dog that will hunt but the bird dog temperament and energy needed to be toned down for inside. I decided on a Braque Francais type Pyrenees (the smaller of the two versions). He's 50lbs. A great house dog in that he is much calmer in the house than either of the previous two. He's mostly white and does pretty good in the heat. Great pheasant dog and has that pointer style that's hard to beat out in the field. The shedding seems a little worse with this dog than the other two but I think it's because he's mostly white and it shows up more.

If I get another dog I will get another BF.
He's also very quiet, except for the UPS driver. That's the only thing he wants to bark at.

User avatar
IANative
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Midwest

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by IANative » Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:16 pm

AtTheMurph wrote:My latest dog was purchased after doing the same sort of introspection as the OP. I wanted a house dog that will hunt but the bird dog temperament and energy needed to be toned down for inside. I decided on a Braque Francais type Pyrenees (the smaller of the two versions). He's 50lbs. A great house dog in that he is much calmer in the house than either of the previous two. He's mostly white and does pretty good in the heat. Great pheasant dog and has that pointer style that's hard to beat out in the field. The shedding seems a little worse with this dog than the other two but I think it's because he's mostly white and it shows up more.

If I get another dog I will get another BF.
He's also very quiet, except for the UPS driver. That's the only thing he wants to bark at.
Interesting. Will have to do some research on the BF, never heard of them before.

User avatar
MNTonester
Rank: Master Hunter
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:51 pm
Location: Duluth, MN

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by MNTonester » Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:27 am

poodles...from everything I've read, they're flushers/retrievers, not pointers.
mine is only a year and a half, but has pointed the occasional critter. I wouldn't mind if it becomes a habit when we're after grouse or pheasants

User avatar
deke
Rank: 3X Champion
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:03 pm
Location: NW washington, the state

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by deke » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:43 am

Hands down a pointing lab. They may not be as pretty as other pointing dogs, or have as much style. But given five shells and told to go shoot my limit of roosters, I am grabbing my old remington 870 and my lab. Out of the five dogs we had in SD last year two were PL's, and only two dogs were standing at the end of the trip and they were both of the PL's. Other dogs were a gsp, pudel pointer, and a springer. Both of our dogs hunt at about 20-30 yards, both retrieve to hand with no training (besides a tennis ball), and both dogs will hunt until they drop. We hunt them from -10 degrees in SD to upper 80's low 90's in eastern washington. Get a roomba if you are concerned about the hair, better make it two.

User avatar
IANative
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Midwest

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by IANative » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:50 pm

Update... after additional research that included visiting both breeders and non-breeding trainers, and considering PL's, Viz's, Weim's and BF's, I've opted for a male Braque Francais Type Pyrenees. He's the darkest one of the litter, with very little white in his coat at all, which should help w/ our dark floors and furniture. Sire owns multiple titles, imported from France to do duty at a SD pheasant lodge. Dam has an impressive pedigree, is a family pet/hunter, and exhibited a great disposition in the time I spent around her. I also got to witness one of her adult pups being worked in the field, and was likewise pleased with what I saw.

Thank you to all the suggestions and advice given here, it helped me out considerably. The rest will be up to me...

LouisianaHunter
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:16 pm

Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by LouisianaHunter » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:08 pm

Looking forward to hearing how this works for you. Good luck!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

User avatar
IANative
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Midwest

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by IANative » Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:08 am

Meet Captain Augustus McCrae, or Gus, as we call him...
Attachments
Gus 1st point.jpg
Gus 1st point.jpg (59.51 KiB) Viewed 15359 times

User avatar
deseeker
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 967
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:38 pm
Location: Blair, Nebraska

Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by deseeker » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:07 pm

Nice looking pup :D

Post Reply